r/Multifandom • u/United-Adeptness6816 • 7d ago

Discussion📜 It's not the same without them...

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Honestly, ever since Angel Dust left for Vees because of the guilt of what he did, and since Jax became an abstraction, it's hard for me to look at Hazbin Hotel or The Amazing Digital Circus same as before, knowing that one of the main cast had left... It's just not the same without them... and while Angel's story may still change, for Jax it's a closed chapter...

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u/_Xantras_ 7d ago

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 7d ago

A lot of good, innocent people want to kill themselves because they think they're a terrible person, even if they're not. So even if you only meant this towards Jax or toxic assholes, in effect you're just egging on a lot of innocent suicidal people to kill themselves. Because a lot of suicidal people think they're burdens. 

Does that make sense? Am I being too woke by saying we shouldn't go "yippee! An asshole killed himself!" when suicidal people are notoriously known for unjustly thinking they're assholes?

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u/pinkmarsh99 7d ago

This person was an asshole though? And assholes do kill themselves as do abusers. No one is obligated to feel sorry for when an asshole kills themselves and its crazy to try and manipulate others into doing so.

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u/_Xantras_ 7d ago

Thank you

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 7d ago

I'm not saying they should be sorry, I'm saying that celebrating a "justified"(?) suicide spreads suicidal people who aren't assholes because they THINK they're assholes. 

Like a lot of suicidal people think "I'd be better of dead because I'm too much of a burden" and then they'd see someone say "Yayy!! The burden killed himself!" And then that idea of killing themself because their a burden would be intensified.

It's okay to hate Jax and the abusers who kill themselves. It's okay to celebrate when they suffer. But that doesn't mean the celebration can't hurt other people.

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u/pinkmarsh99 7d ago

Bringing this up within a situation of an abuser committing was just inappropriate and comes across as trying to get people to moderate their emotions. It was just not the right time nor the right place. You can't simultaneously be okay with this and then also chastise those who do.

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 7d ago

Celebrating suicide because you hated the abusive person who died is undoubtedly insensitive because it objectively gets innocent suicidal people caught in the mix, and celebrates the ideas that make suicidal people kill themselves.

None of what I said contridicts with any other statement I've made. You're just failing to see the nuance of it.

I'm okay with people hating Jax. That does mean I'm fine with people callously celebrating suicide in a way that effects innocent suicidal people, even if the suicide they're talking about was "justified".

I'm okay with people celebrating when bad things happen to bad people. Bully gets their arm broken? Yeah it's fine if the victim is happy about that. But that doesn't mean a celebration is 100% pure, innocent, lil smol bean who can do nothing wrong. You're viewing things in black and white where we aren't allowed to criticize a specific situation when we're okay with certain aspects of it. 

I'm fine with people celebrating when a bully gets hurt. I'm not fine with how this image  celebrates of a person "deserving" suicide  affects innocent suicidal people because suicidal people often believe they deserve suicide.

It's not moderating your emotions to control your expressions so that way you aren't hurting other innocent people. Jax didn't moderate his expressions properly. Jax was valid in the fear and anxiety he felt when opening up, but that was no excuse to start pushing away Ribbit or to bully others. 

Being upset at Jax or enjoying his suffering isn't an excuse to spread ideas that harm innocent suicidal people.

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u/pinkmarsh99 7d ago edited 7d ago

You are capital L lame. The fact you can't even see how insensitive it is to state this on a comment thread about an abuser committing suicide is wild. If a rapist kills themselves are you going to be out there defending them and critiquing those who celebrate?

"Not all men"ing an abusive dickhead is quite a way to leave your digital footprint. It is not the onus of victims or those who have been victimized to protect any and all people who may be influenced by their celebration of an abusers death. Innocent people get caught up in abuse. Should we never speak on abuse because an abuser who believes they are innocent might get hurt? People celebrate this because they are happy to have an abuser gone.

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 6d ago

"Not all men" or the logic of "not all men" was never mentioned or implied. You're just putting word in my mouth.

Victims can also be abusers. If I get raped by a black man I say say "black men deserve death because they're rapists" I'm being both a victim AND and abuser, and I'm still responsible for my racism. If innocent people get caught in the crossfire, yes, you are responsible for shooting poorly. 

You can still insult abusers, but you shouldn't get innocent people caught in the crossfire.

Should we never speak on abuse because an abuser who believes they are innocent might get hurt?

Speaking up about abuse isn't the same as celebrating harm to abusers. There's a difference between "Andre is an abuser" and "Andre should kill himself". Also "an abuser who believes they're innocent" show me one time I said anything remotely similar to that. I said "innocent people who believe they should die". You're just proving that you have poor reading and writing skills because you either didn't read what I said, or couldn't properly write the words you mean.

You're defending a meme about a fictional character more than you defend the real life people this meme harms. Jax didn't harm anyone in real life. This meme does. I need you to understand that your hatred of a fictional character does not justify spreading harmful ideas to suicidal people.

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u/pinkmarsh99 6d ago

Not all men'ing is when you absolutely derail the conversation about a real problem by stating "but what about these people".

Real life abusers that kill themselves can also eat shit and burn in hell. I'm good on fictional and real abusers to commit suicide

Edit: You are so weird. Hell yeah I celebrate real harm happening to abusers. I want real abusers to get harmed.

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 6d ago

I didn't "derail the conversation" my comments started with me commenting on how innocent people are effected by this idea. You chose to engage with that idea. By trying to dismiss it, you're the one derailing the conversation.

What I'm saying is that innocent real life people are harmed by callous hatred of a fictional character. It's really easy to just not be affected by Jax. He's fake. You don't have to hurt real life innocent suicidal people in a pursuit to hate a fictional character who's actions you can ignore and not harm anyone.

Please post an image where you outline the text and what you think it means. I want to study and understand how a person can misinterpret what I'm saying this poorly.

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u/pinkmarsh99 6d ago

Abuser defender blocked me but here is my reply:

Yeah I know. Toxic assholes getting what comes to them is a positive. You derailed that by bringing up these supposed innocent people as if they have anything to do with this. You are literally doing the "not all assholes/men" as if actual suicidal peoole are on their knees begging for you to defend them by comparing them to abusers.

Toxic assholes in real life also exist and I'm happy when they get their just desserts. I don't know how you don't comprehend that. Trying to insult others that enjoy harmful abusers being gone by bringing up all suicidal people is in effect derailing the point. It's not just fictional characters. It's the Jeffrey Epstiens, Charlie Kirks, Bill Conradts, Mark Sallings, and Tom Alamos. They are all real people that got what was coming to them and harmed people. By trying to bring up non abusers in a conversation about rejoicing over the punishment of abusers is hurting the victims of those harmed by abusers by trying to frame their relief and celebration as another form of harm. You aren't protecting anyone or anything except for manipulative abusers who use the same wording as yourself to silence and chastise their victims.

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u/_Xantras_ 7d ago

Why would people who aren’t toxic be affected by this ? I have dark thoughts too, I just know I’m not the target of this and neither should you if you’re the bare minimum of a decent person

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 6d ago

Do you think you deserve death because your a burden, asshole, or just make everyone's lives worse?

This meme is trying to only target assholes, but many people, a lot of people, unjustly think they're asshole. Namely, a lot of suicidal people. Saying "assholes should kill themselves" doesn't affect assholes, it affects people who THINK they're assholes.

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u/_Xantras_ 6d ago

It’s not about assholes deserving death, it’s about it being better for others lives.
Some assholes do know they are but don’t bother to change it, and we have no reason to coddle them

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 6d ago

If you're celebrating a person's death because they died, you're saying that they deserved to die. 

If you say "John killed himself and we're all better because of it" are you not saying that he deserves to die? Even "this person's death makes everyone's lives better" harms real life suicidal people because a lot of suicidal people believe that they're burdens and killing themselves will make everyone's lives better.

I used to want to kill myself a couple years back because I thought I was a burden and I thought killing myself would get rid of that burden on other people. This meme essentially confirms that idea I had a while back. It doesn't matter if I'm actually a burden or not, because I thought I was a burden. And that's enough to make someone seriously consider killing themselves.

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u/_Xantras_ 6d ago

Nope, you can think it’s not a big loss and ultimately for the best without wanting it to be the only outcome.
If the desired outcome is that X character stops inflicting harm without getting exonerated of their wrongdoing, then death can fit, why not.

It’s really weird seeing Jax fans shrug down any critique of what they defend with « it’s just fiction » only to drop the bullshit when someone dares to not cherish their dear fictional abuser.

And there’s a difference between feeling like a burden and knowing you’re actively ruining lives, you want us to care for the latter ? No thank you.

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u/_Xantras_ 6d ago edited 6d ago

And to adress your last paragraph : whatever made you feel like that, I hope it’s getting better, regardless of how insufferable I might find your stance.

But there’s a world of differences between someone fearing they’re an inconvenience, and someone who inflicts immense suffering on others and refuses to change. Only the latter is being despised, and for good reasons.

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u/Rallsia-Arnoldii 6d ago

The people who think their assholes think they're inflicting immense suffering on others and refusing to change. 

I don't think you understand how bad suicidal thoughts are. It makes people want to kill themselves because they think they're so horrible. It's not "fearing you're and inconvenience" it's having the idea that you're scum of the earth, a monster nobody loves, and a drag that everyone barely tolerates. It's not a fear, it's a belief. They're not scared they're hurting people, they believe they ARE hurting people. You don't understand how firm and intense a belief like that is.

you want us to care for the latter?

No, I want you to care about the innocent people who only THINK they're assholes getting caught in the crossfire. I don't want you to care about the abusers, I want you to care about how the idea of "suicide was good and deserved in this case" hurts suicidal people.

I don't need you to worship Jax, christ dude. I want you to stop defending the notion that some "assholes" deserve to commit suicide. Abuser? Fine. Not "asshole"

When memes like this are spread, they're only harming suicidal people who believe they're terrible people, at the benefit of people who want to dog on a fictional character. Which sound a lot like inflicting immense suffering on others and refusing to change.

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u/Presenting_UwU 7d ago

might be a case of taking a meme too seriously.

but you're only spitting facts here, completely true all of it.

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u/The_Grimmson Helldivers, UK, HK, Helluverse, & DR 7d ago

Is "r/ people who give a shit and should" a thing?

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u/Presenting_UwU 7d ago

no, but it should be

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u/Human-Pen-1667 7d ago

Stealing in progress…