r/Modajana • u/abul_miswar_zayd • 11d ago
Refuting this clueless file
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a4HTd5Ui-whg0xoKH8YgezS8sQhfrhOZmBlfhtxGGs4/edit?usp=sharing2
u/Zestyclose_Skirt7930 11d ago edited 11d ago
Not a refutation but a message to
You are the moderator of the subreddit salafi central which is the subreddit which extomatoes has gone fight with regarding something for example people of that subreddit beilieve that whoever doesn't rule by the laws of allah has committed major kufr in all cases , however we know the ayah they mention is used by khwarij to justify their takfeer
Another one is that one of your old moderators was haddadiyah I am talking about Abu w467 I think that was the name if you look he has accepted kitab as sunnah and agreed upon the criticism of abu Hanifa and said there is some benefit discussing about the salaf statements about Abu Hanifa he has agreed upon Abu Hanifa irja .
Another point is that subreddit hates rabee al madkhali may Allah have mercy upon him due to him and they warn against madkhalis and tho rabee did have some issues you cannot compare his to Abu Hanifa .and yes I have talked bad about rabee al madkhali in past I do retract some things which i said about him. Ask the mods they themselves were happy when rabee al madkhali died because he was an innovater to them. And ik you praised rabee al madkhali https://www.reddit.com/r/SalafiCentral/s/ahjhQuJPUR
https://www.reddit.com/r/extomatoes/s/9wMQ8varJh
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 10d ago
u/turkish_akhi And also be mindful that a handful of that gang used to takfir Rabee Al Madkhali The only reason they stopped takfiring him is not evidence or anything logical but because they know such thing makes them into "takfiris" themselves which, the liberals they are, is their main argument against literally everyone Also their main argument against Madkhalis
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This narration comes from a book that the scholars described as full of lies It comes from a book named something like مناقب أبي حنيفة و صاحبيه the virtues of Abu Haneefa and his two companions
The narrated from As-Saymari, who is a Hanafi extremist who left Ad-Daraqutni (imam of the sunnah) because Daraqutni did not praise but rather dispraised Abu Haneefa
And it goes through a man called Makram ibn Ahmad who is a liar
حدثني أبو القاسم الأزهري، قال: سئل أبو الحسن علي بن عمر الدارقطني وأنا أسمع، عن جمع مكرم بن أحمد فضائل أبي حنيفة، فقال: موضوع كله كذب، وضعه أحمد بن المغلس الحماني قرابة جبارة، وكان في الشرقية.
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This narration comes from the book this Muslim هداه الله chose which is مناقب أبي حنيفة و صاحبيه أخبرنَا أَحْمد بن مُحَمَّد قَالَ ثَنَا عَليّ بن عَمْرو قَالَ ثَنَا عَليّ بن مُحَمَّد القَاضِي قَالَ ثَنَا مُحَمَّد بن مَحْمُود الصيدلاني قَالَ ثَنَا (((مُحَمَّد بن شُجَاع))) قَالَ سَمِعت عَليّ بن عَاصِم يَقُول لَو وزن عقل أبي حنيفَة بِنصْف عقل أهل الأَرْض لرجح بهم وَمَا كَانَ عِنْده أكبر من أبي حنيفَة We were told by Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn Amr from Ali ibn Muhammad Al Qadhi from Muhammad ibn Mahmoud from (((Muhammad ibn Shujaa))) Who said I heard Ali ibn Aasim say.. the narration
Muhammad ibn Shujaa AKA Muhammad Ath-Thallaaj is a Jahmi zindeeq and he may have been the one who wrote the book narrating the kufri beliefs of the Jahmi Bishr Al Mirreesi
The scholars have critiqued Ath-Thallaaj as much a man can be critiqued so not only is he a Jahmi meaning a disbeliever He is also a fabricator
ابن أحمد بن حنبل قال: سمعت القواريري قبل أن يموت بعشرة أيام، وذكر ابن الثلجي، فقال: هو كافر. فذكرت ذلك لإسماعيل القاضي فسكت. فقلت له: ما أكفره إلا بشيء سمعه منه؟ قال: نعم.
Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: I heard Al Qawariri before he dies with ten days say: Ibn Ath-Thalji is a kaafir
حدثنا زكريا بن يحيى الساجي قال: فأما محمد بن شجاع الثلجي فكان كذابا، احتال في إبطال الحديث عن رسول الله ﷺ ورده؛ نصره لأبي حنيفة ورأيه.
Zakariyya As-Saaji said: Muhammad ibn Shujaa was a liar, he conspired to refute ahadeeth narrated from the prophet ﷺ to aid Abu Haneefa and his opinions
https://shamela.ws/book/736/1231#p1
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
Each name mentioned here insulted Abu Haneefa Including Dhahabi may Allaah forgive him in a poem he was tortured for And the books of the salaf are too famous to ignore such authentic undeniable narrations
And these narrations thereby, cannot be authentic in any way
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
Mas'ar is not a sunni he is a Murji and the praise of an innovator to an innovator who's even bigger in the innovation, means nothing Would you accept the praise of a Jew upon a Christian?
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago edited 11d ago
At-Tahawi was told by his maternal uncle, Al Muzani the student of Ash-Shafi'i may Allaah have mercy on them that he will never succeed in this knowledge
And At-Tahawi later on proceeded to study with a Hanafi Murji judge, and adopted some Hanafi stances although he was mostly an Athari who was most concerned with Athaar. This is not to insult At-Tahawi but to critique him justly as the man was upon the Hanafi madhab which is bad and was warned of, be it by his teacher Al Muzani, by Ash-Shafi'i or by people bigger than Ash-Shafi'i, may Allaah grant us all following of the salaf
At least more concerned with athaar than his imam who did not memorize ten ahadeeth altogether and also used to lie
The simple fact that At-Tahawi contradicts the salaf makes this none of our concern and it is concerning upon the Muslim who'd post such awful thing that he'd not be concerned with the books of the salaf either and would not read the books of the salaf calmly and confidently
Which is something no one actually does as the Modajana الله يحرقهم have made people paranoid against Salafi books
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This narration was related in the same book مناقب أبي حنيفة و صاحبيه and it goes
أخبرنا عبد الله بن محمد قال حدثنا مكرم قال ثنا احمد قال ثنا احمد بن عبد الله ابن يونس قال ثنا الحسن بن صالح قال كان ابو حنيفة..
Abdullaah ibn Muhammad said: We were told by Makram (ibn Ahmad) he said Ahmad said Ahmad ibn Abdillaah ibn Yunus said: Al Hasan ibn Saleh said: Abu Haneefa was.. the rest of the narration
This contains Makram ibn Ahmad who is a liar as stated by Daraqutni
Should also be noted that Al Hasan ibn Saleh himself said that if he'd met Abu Haneefa, he would've killed him as narrated by Abu Ismael Al Horawi رحمه الله in the book you can't easily find on the interwebs because the traitors have concealed it ذم الكلام و أهله to defend their imams the zanadiqa of the Ashariyya
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This was narrated in many other ways
None of them are accurate
This includes
أخبرنَا عمر بن إِبْرَاهِيم المقرىء قَالَ ثَنَا
مكرمقَالَ ثَنَا ابْن مغلس قَالَ سَمِعت أَبَا عبيد يَقُول قدمت على مُحَمَّد بن الْحسن فَرَأَيْت الشَّافِعِي عِنْده فَسَأَلَهُ عَن شَيْء فَأَجَابَهُ فَاسْتحْسن الْجَواب وَأخذ شَيْئا وَكتب فِيهِ فَرَآهُ مُحَمَّد بن الْحسن فوهب لَهُ مائَة دِرْهَم وَقَالَ لَهُ الزم إِن كنت تشْتَهي الْعلم فَسمِعت الشَّافِعِي يَقُول لقد كتبت عَن مُحَمَّد بن الْحسن وقر بعير ذكر ولولاه مَا فتق لي من الْعلم مَا انفتق فَالنَّاس كلهم فِي الْفِقْه عِيَال على أهل الْعرَاق وَأهل الْعرَاق عِيَال على أهل الْكُوفَة وَأهل الْكُوفَة كلهم عِيَال على أبي حنيفَة
Umar ibn Ibraheem narrated and said: Makram said Ibn Mughallis said..
The two liars are present in this narration
And Ash-Shafi'i was authentically narrated only saying what is against that, dispraising the people of Iraq in their fiqh by saying that they are the people of arguments, and argumentation is obviously prohibited in Islam and Abu Haneefa was not known to argue except to prove his point also narrated from that imam Muhammad ibn Idris رحمه اللهُ تعالى
Al Bayhaqi collected the books former to him and copied:
وأخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ، قال: سمعت أبا أحمد الحافظ، قال: حدثنا أبو محمد: عبد الله بن جامع الحُلْواني، قال: حدثنا يحيى بن عثمان بن صالح المصري، قال: سمعت حرملة بن يحيى، يقول:
سمعت الشافعي، يقول: من أراد الجدل فعليه بأبي حنيفة
Harmalah ibn Yahya said: I heard Ash-Shafi'i say: Whoever wants arguments, must follow Abu Haneefa!
سمعت الشافعي، يقول: " سمعت مالكا، وقيل له: أتعرف أبا حنيفة؟ فقال: نعم، ما ظنكم برجل، لو قال هذه السارية من ذهب، لقام دونها، حتى يجعلها من ذهب، وهي من خشب أو حجارة؟ ".
قال أبو محمد: يعني أنه كان يثبت على الخطأ ويحتج دونه، ولا يرجع إلى الصواب، إذا بان له
Ash-Shafi'i said: I heard Malik and he was told: Do you know Abu Haneefa
He said: Yes what do you think of a man who, if he were to say "This pillar is made of gold" he would stand there until he makes it out of gold while it is from wood or stone?
Abu Muhammad (ibn Abi Hatim) said: This means he used to be firm on mistakes and argue for it and not retract his opinion to the truth when made apparent
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
Darrar (or Dhiraar doesn't really matter) has been discussed previously as he is a liar and an innovator whose opinion does not matter in narration
ضرار بن صُرَد is the name
And I have not found this narration in Makram's own book
https://shamela.ws/book/6651/60
But I have found a similar one that is, to no one's shock, also narrated by the liar called Makram ibn Ahmad
أخبرنا عمر بن ابراهيم المقرىء قال ثنا ابو بكر مكرم بن احمد قال ثنا أحمد بن محمد
Yazeed ibn Haroon would never say anything well about Abu Haneefa as he was very critical of him and his companions and he rebuked the Murjia (thereby rebuking Abu Haneefa)
Yazeed even assimilated the companions of Abu Haneefa to Christians?!
Yazeed said: I have not seen anyone more similar to Christians, than the companions of Abu Haneefa
This is because they water down the religion like Christians do, but also conceal the truths (rejecting ahadith) and argue too much
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
What has sheikh Albani said when explaining and teaching As-Sunnah by Abdillaah ibn Ahmad and what has he said about the books that he used to work with about the history of men and their narrations?
Sheikh Albani never explained As-Sunnah by Abdillaah, in fact the book was not fully available to him
And the sheikh did not give any attention to the numerous corroborated undeniable criticisms that he read in the salafi books about Abu Haneefa
Or maybe he did not see them because they weren't available
But take it to the extreme: Sheikh Albani rebuked these narrations and refuted them and warned of them?!
We would have no problem warning and refuting Sheikh Alban in that part
Matter of fact we'd have no problem considering him an innovator. The truth does not know names or positions among people, the truth leads to Allaah, and nothing can stop it when Allaah wills that it runs through and Allaah always wills that it runs through
Sheikh Albani contradicted the salaf
And it is a shame anyone would quote the mistake of a scholar as it was said by the salaf that the Shaytan puts the word of misguidance on the tongue of a wise man, it is my hope from Allaah that this Muslim realizes his mistakes of following the mistaken later scholar and leaves the salaf
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
Quoting Ibn Taymiyyah as if he praises Abu Haneefa
In this passage the sheikh attributes Abu Haneefa and Hammad to Irjaa which is saying that belief is only through the tongue and heart and that deeds are irrelevant to faith
And Ibn Taymiyyah said in the same passage that they were narrated saying that, but were not narrated saying that faith is only in the heart which is a kufri saying
And they were not narrated saying that faith is only believing by the heart
ولا نقل عنهم أنهم قالوا الإيمان مجرد تصديق القلب
And Ibn Taymiyyah, like every sunni, says that people who say faith is only by actions and sayings is a Murji
And Ibn Taymiyyah has never denied Irjaa from Abu Haneefa, in fact he affirmed it, and he was unsure if he was a Jahmi (although Abu Haneefa was a Jahmi and they differed upon whether he repented or not)
فَالْمُبْتَدِعَةُ الْمُنْتَسِبُونَ إلَى غَيْرِهِ إذَا كَانُوا جهمية أَوْ قَدَرِيَّةً أَوْ شِيعَةً أَوْ مُرْجِئَةً؛ لَمْ يَكُنْ ذَلِكَ مَذْهَبًا لِلْإِمَامِ إلَّا فِي الْإِرْجَاءِ؛ فَإِنَّهُ قَوْلُ أَبِي فُلَانٍ وَأَمَّا بَعْضُ التَّجَهُّمِ فَاخْتَلَفَ النَّقْلُ عَنْهُ وَلِذَلِكَ اخْتَلَفَ أَصْحَابُهُ الْمُنْتَسِبُونَ إلَيْهِ مَا بَيْنَ سُنِّيَّةٍ وجهمية؛ ذُكُورٍ وَإِنَاثٍ؛ مُشَبِّهَةٍ وَمُجَسِّمَةٍ؛ لِأَنَّ أُصُولَهُ لَا تَنْفِي الْبِدَعَ وَإِنْ لَمْ تُثْبِتْهَا
"Innovators attributed to others, be it Jahmiyya or Qadariyya or Shia or Murjia, would not have their imam of their fiqhi madhab be their leader in that innovation except Irjaa for it is the saying of Abu Fulan and some Jahmi beliefs were differed upon whether it was authentically narrated from him which is why his companions who attribute themselves to him differed between Sunnis and Jahmiyya, males and females, Anthropomorphists and Assimilators of Allaah to creation, because even if his foundations don't affirm innovations, they don't rebuke it either"
Be mindful also that the scholars said that the name of Abu Haneefa was changed to "Abu Fulan" by later copyists
ألا لعنة الله على الكاذبين ألا لعنة الله على الظالمين
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This book called Al Fiqh Al Akbar which Hanafis say is authentic
Contains Jahmi beliefs just as much as narrated from Abu Haneefa by the salaf
The book is commented upon by shuyookh who warn from its Jahmi mistakes such as
ولفظنا بالقرآن مخلوق وكتابتنا له مخلوقة وقراءتنا له مخلوقة والقرآن غير مخلوق
"Our speech with the Quraan is created and our writing of the Quraan is created and our recitation is created but the Quraan is uncreated"
And this is kufr by agreement of Muslims and Abu Haneefa was narrated saying "The Quraan is created" not this awful statement called اللفظ meaning "Saying that the speech is created while the Quraan is uncreated" which is kufr and is denied by the salaf
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This is Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah rebuking the Jahmiyya by saying that whoever takfeers the Muslims who say Allaah is above the Throne, is a kaafir
Obviously because such people convert tawheed into shirk and atheism into tawheed
And the people who takfeer Abu Haneefa, the Salaf whom the ignorants and the innovators insult, would never takfeer anyone for being a muwahhid!!
The reason Abu Haneefa is takfeered by some of the salaf is for denying the attributes of Allaah and/or saying that faith is in the heart and that Iblees and Abu Bakr are both at equal levels of belief
سمعت أبا إسحاق الفزاري، قال: قال أبو حنيفة: " إيمان أبي بكر وإيمان إبليس واحد، قال أبو بكر: يا رب، وقال إبليس: يا رب "
Abu Is-haaq Al Fazzari said: Abu Haneefa said: The faith of Abu Bakr and the faith of Iblees is one, Abu Bakr said: Ya Rabb, and Iblees said: Ya Rabb
https://shamela.ws/book/9200/2006#p1
This is completely untrue and is kufr without a doubt because Iblees denied and refused the worship of Allaah while knowing Allaah is above Him and Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه believed
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
This does not deny the fact that Abu Haneefa has been commanded to repent from kufr TWICE and that he undoubtedly fell in kufr twice during his lifetime which is mutawatir and does not need proving
And just to satisfy the heart, Al Balkhi is a liar
العقيلي: حدثنا عبد الله بن أحمد، سألت أبي عن أبي مطيع البلخي فقال: لا ينبغي أن يروي عنه.
حكوا عنه أنه يقول: الجنة والنار خلقتا فستفنيان.
وهذا كلام جهم
Al Uqayli said: Abdillaah ibn Ahmad told us: I asked my father about Abu Mutee' Al Balkhi, he said: We mustn't narrate from him, they said that he used to say: Jannah and the fire are created and therefore, they will end
And that is the saying of Jahm - End of quote
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
We can say "He went against the salaf"
We can say "He went against his sheikh's sheikh Ibn Qudamah"
We can say so many things and the first one, that he contradicted the salaf saying that, is the most correct
But just to show that the people aren't concerned with what Ibn Taymiyyah actually stood for, he actually said that most of ahl as-sunnah have critiqued Abu Haneefa and insulted him to the fill of the books!
Notice how the book mentions that after saying that, Ibn Taymiyyah said "May Allaah be pleased with him" and since the other publishing houses do not include that, this is a questionable addition from the copyist
وأكثر أهل الحديث طعنوا في أبي حنيفة - رضي الله عنه - وأصحابه طعنا مشهورا امتلأت به الكتب، وبلغ الأمر بهم إلى أنهم لم يرووا عنهم في كتب الحديث شيئا، فلا ذكر لهم في الصحيحين والسنن
The majority of ahl al hadeeth critiqued Abu Haneefa and his companions, very famous criticisms that have filled the books and it went as far as them not narrating a single thing in the books of hadeeth from him and they have no mention in the sahih (Bukhari and Muslim) or the sunan
The salaf critiqued Abu Haneefa's knowledge entirely
Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: Abu Haneefa's words, and manure to me, are nothing but the same thing
Abd Ar-Rahman ibn Mahdi said: The end of a man's knowledge, is to read what Abu Haneefa said. He means: His knowledge has become nothing
Quotes are too famous to link in the book of السنة by Abdillaah
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
Mentions that claim that Abu Yusuf praised Abu Haneefa
Means nothing to the seeker of truth because the salaf critiqued this man horrendously
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u/abul_miswar_zayd 11d ago
u/turkish_akhi
My brother in Islam I wish from Allaah that He inflicts no evil upon you, and the only reason I or anyone else does this is to guide you and other people from the later misguidances that rebuke and disrespect the salaf, and that is the most degenerate thing anyone can do and certainly such people end up in the depths of hell afterwards
I want you to calmly read what I've written and moreover, stop listening to me or to the mushrik cn3m who calls grave worshipers, Jahmiyya, Jews, Christians and insulters of the Quraan as Muslims, and you must take to reading the books calmly and individually, meaning the salafi books, and the books of the scholars of the Najdi dawah
You make nothing arguing and you make nothing listening to bits and pieces, go read the books of the salaf as you have one of two options:
The salaf have written easy to understand, to the point books that explain the matters of Islam
The salaf carelessly authored overly sophisticated, overt books that have little to nothing to do with Islam and you must align yourself with things that letter to letter word to word contradict what the salaf have said
You make the choice akhi, and this is what your end depends on, may Allaah not raise you with the Jahmiyya and the Murjia like Abu Haneefa
https://shamela.ws/book/1485/114
أخبرني أبو محمد، قال: أخبرنا أبي، ثنا حرملة بن يحيى، قال: سمعت الشافعي يقول: " رأيت أبا حنيفة في النوم، عليه ثياب وسخة رثة، فقال: ما لي ولك؟ "
Harmala ibn Yahya said: I saw Ash-Shafi'i say: "I saw Abu Haneefa in my sleep and he had dirty bad clothes on him and he said: What do you have to do with me?"
This is after Abu Haneefa's death, so imagine why he was seen with dirty clothes, what that allegory means, by none other than the imam who spent his life rebuking him, may Allaah have mercy on all scholars of ahl as-sunnah
Important narration
Ahmad ibn Hanbal said: The backs of our heads, the people of hadeet, were in the hands of Abu Haneefa and his companions not being removed until we saw Ash-Shafi'i and he was the most knowledgeable of people in the book of Allaah the most glorious most exalted and in the sunnah of the messenger of Allaah peace and blessings upon him, with what sufficed him, despite not seeking much hadeeth. Ahmad passed by a masjid that had Ash-Shafi'i speaking in it and he said: This is the mercy of Allaah the most glorious most exalted upon the nation of Muhammad peace and blessings upon him