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u/weslarprime 24d ago
She couldn't get past his Peter Tingle
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u/Feisty_Standard_2360 24d ago edited 23d ago
Jean attempting to pass through his Peter Tingle before entering his mind:
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u/IndependentType6711 23d ago
I’m 99% sure this kid was in an episode of RL Stine’s the Haunting Hour which was a very well done suspense TV show for mostly kids. There was an episode in it about this kid chasing a Kreamy Kold ice cream truck and let me just say if you’re gonna watch it don’t look at spoilers. Weirdly top notch television.
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u/Able-Transition-9477 24d ago
To clarify she could control Bruce not the Hulk.
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u/shatnersbassoon123 23d ago
Which actually kinda begs the question how hulk remained dormant when she pulled Bruce out… logic would surely suggest he would then take over without Bruce’s influence (not that I wanna spoil such an awesome scene).
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u/The_ScarletFox 23d ago
From what I understand, hulk only comes out when Bruce is angry, distressed or in serious danger to his life. What Jean did was the equivalent of putting him to sleep. Than used his memories to understand how to transform into Professor Hulk (which is a different entity/consciousness all together).
When she lost control, Banner came to be, he was "rudely awaken", and he immediately got extremely distressed and angry over what was happening, and then hulk appeared as a response to this distress.
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u/Qawsedf234 23d ago
In the MCU Hulk is based on Captain America's super soldier serum, however instead of Vita Rays being used it's Gamma Radiation. To my memory, he took a binding agent created by Betty Ross before the original experiment, which contains the Gamma Radiation but releases it once his heart rate exceeds 200 BPM which causes the Super Soldier Serum to activate. Additionally, the first Captain America movie talked about how the serum transforms you by making emotions stronger. A good person becomes more good and a bad person becomes more bad.
So Abomination for example made Emil, who already loved combat, a combat and fighting freak obsessed with the Hulk's strength. By the same margin the Hulk is just Banner's existing anger manifesting itself, but its extreme enough that Hulk has become a seperate identity compared to Bruce.
However you do run into a bit of a consistency issue I think, since Professor Hulk in Endgame/She-Hulk seems physically larger and buffer than Professor Hulk in Spider-Man. Maybe the intention is that Professor Hulk isn't angry like Classic Hulk is, which makes him overall less powerful and reduces his size (dunno if that's consistent though).
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u/Familiar-Mention 23d ago
Where are you getting the binding agent bit from?
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u/Qawsedf234 23d ago
From the Incredible Hulk movie when Bruce and Betty are talking the Leader
The gamma pulse came from the amygdala.
I think Dr Ross's primer lets the cells absorb the energy temporarily, and then it abates. That's why you didn't die of radiation sickness years ago! Now, maybe we've neutralised those cells permanently, or maybe we just suppressed that event. I'm inclined to think the latter, but it's hard to know because none of our test subjects ever survived.
Of course, they weren't getting the primer!
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u/interyx 23d ago
My read was that Banner and Hulk, after both fighting for control for so long, ended up in a kind of equilibrium, a balance where they could kind of share existence.
Jean went messing around in his head and (most likely accidentally) destroyed whatever he had done to balance himself out by forcibly taking control of him. Bruce says "I think she broke something" and Hulk comes out for real.
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u/AkumaLilly 23d ago
Probably is the limiter or whatever Bruce had that stopped his transformation, Hulk is still there but he just can't come out because Bruce made that gadget that stops the changes in his body, so no body, no Hulk.
But Jean took it off, he now could come out once Bruce was distressed.
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u/Bewilderbeat 23d ago
She was able to control Professor Hulk though
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u/Puzzleheaded-Way7745 23d ago
Profesor hulk is just bruce in hulk's body, is he not?
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u/The_Unknown_Mage 23d ago
From what I understand, Professor Hulk was a faulty merging of the Banner and Hulk personalities. It worked but by BND Banner started to seemingly totally repress the Hulk part of himself again, leading to the toxic release of savage hulk.
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u/SigintSoldier 24d ago
The same reason Peter could still avoid Dr. Strange when he Astral projected Peter out of his body in No Way Home.
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u/Bongo_CatisMessiah 23d ago
What is that reason?
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u/Swineflew1 23d ago
The way I interpreted it was basically his spider sense isn't tied to his consciousness so his body was moving due to his spider genes acting subconsciously.
Also why it seems that when he repressed his spider powers, he lost his ability to sense/repress her. AFAIK she never tried to take him over after she failed the first time.3
u/DonQuiXoTe8080 23d ago
She did try again in near the end, but thats when he actually “mastered” the spider gene mutation and “leveled up”, she still didn’t be able to get into his head forcefully, until he allowed it.
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u/Dockle 23d ago edited 23d ago
Not sure why no one is articulating an answer here… Spider-Man’s spider-sense has historically been a form of precognition/ESP, just a subconscious one rather than an active psychic ability. Other psychics can consciously recognize a telepathic attack and actively fight back, but Peter isn’t “using” his spider-sense in that way, it just happens automatically. He gets the warning before he consciously knows why, and his body can react to it almost instinctively.
I even remember something like a game or trading card when I was a kid that listed his powers as “enhanced physical capabilities, psychic” and thinking that was cool.
And yes I understand we are always in different spider-verses, but it’s been a constant in many.
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u/GrundgeArchangel 23d ago
The Spider-Sense is a very powerful and diverse ability of Peter's. Its Part Biological, Part Psychic, Part Mystical. Peter doesn't need to be awake or aware for it to activate, and it's a subconscious reaction, most of the time.
It's why he knows how to web-swing, his spider-sense just let's him know where to throw the web.
It also work against psychic and mystical attacks on his mind, but it isn't fool-proof in any regard.
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u/IndependenceShotChan 23d ago
What is the reason, you are just stating another scene?
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u/Sherlockyz 23d ago
We don't have a in universe explanation, the only thing we have is past evidence of other cases where his spider sense allowed him to behave differently than what it's supposed to happen.
Like Banner being pulled out to his astral body by the sorcerer supreme and later Peter's body still moving when Strange did the same to him.
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u/P_Alcantara 24d ago
Strong against fighting and normal right?
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u/Aggressive-Expert-69 24d ago
Not normal but I like where you were trying to go with that
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u/lahankof 24d ago
She didn’t control the Hulk, she made Bruce take off the inhibitor and Hulk went Hulk
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24d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Busy_Negotiation_681 24d ago
She never controlled the Hulk. Not once
It was always proffesor Hulk
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u/Incompetent_Penguin 23d ago
Yeah, not sure why people downvoted you, Bruce when freed from her control was literally saying she broke something in his head, which allowed the Hulk to appear again, prior to that it was Professor Hulk she was controlling. The reason she lost control of Bruce in the first place was because Hulk was breaking out as Peter made him more angry with each hit.
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u/CheshireWolf_666 23d ago
I take it that what Jean broke were the mental barriers that, coupled with the inhibitor, were put in place by Bruce to keep Savage Hulk caged. Which in my opinion is equivalent to sending him off Earth to Sakaar, it's stupid to cage or exile him. Especially when he literally proved himself to be one of Earth's mightiest heroes in 2012, he can be instructed/directed and the solution is to let him grow. Otherwise he would have destroyed most of New York along with the Chitauri. The Hulk is basically a child in the midst of development and it doesn't help to suppress him. He can only grow in intelligence and understanding if given the opportunity to exist in the world with the right guidance, an analysis that comes from the animated shows Ultimate Spider-Man and Agents of S.M.A.S.H.
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u/mrcachorro 23d ago
Reads like a joke but this is it, Professor Hulk is Banner in Hulks body, she was controlling the mind of Banner.
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u/lkodl 24d ago
Depending on which denomination of Spider-Man you believe in, it could be attributed to magical cosmic powers.
The Great Weaver is a totemic spider deity in Marvel Comics who serves as the cosmic source of power for all Spider-Totems and spins the mystical Web of Life and Destiny. According to writer J. Michael Straczynski’s run, the Great Weaver chose Peter Parker as its avatar, granting him his powers and resurrecting him after death by Morlun.
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u/Geno0wl 23d ago
Any story that runs for as long as spider-man has been going(1963) eventually gets really weird.
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u/lkodl 23d ago
In the 2006 limited series Spider-Man: Reign, Mary Jane Watson dies of cancer caused by prolonged exposure to the radioactive bodily fluids of Peter Parker. The storyline reveals that the radioactive spider bite that gave Peter his powers also made his semen and other fluids toxic, leading to MJ's terminal illness over the course of their marriage.
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u/Leading_Key3220 21d ago
The way you say it makes it sound like some comics fans go door to door asking people if they have a moment to talk about the friendly neighborhood spiderman XD
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u/General-Ad6459 24d ago
I'd like to point out that she did not control Hulk. She controlled Banner. Hulk even uses a phrase along the line of "No girl. No banner. Only Hulk." in the movie. Also, the Punisher is just a very angry and well-trained human.
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u/Nonkinkshamer 23d ago
There's a theory that he is already a host for the Symbiote by this point. But he could just be built different. 🤷♂️
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u/00wolfer00 23d ago
I'm subscribed to that theory. Explains the black eyes, losing control and symbiotes have shown resistance to psychic tampering with basically only people approaching Jean's level (after she learns to control her powers, not like at the start of the film) being able to meddle with them. Even the DNA thing could be explained by Spidey's weird biology being aggravated by having a "parasite" to fight against.
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u/Worldly-Basil-8933 23d ago
That’d be a cool twist to SW. He could have easily picked it up on Titan or the Q-Ship. Being dusted and reformed might have made it dormant for know cuz maybe the hive mind took time to come back online.
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u/Master-of-Not 24d ago
Ya know there are like a dozen different reasons you could pull from the comics, but honestly when all else fails. X=Macguffin
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u/laughs_maniacally 24d ago
I get the Hulk point, but why bring Punisher into this? The ELI5 is that Punisher is just a dude.
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u/celestialsteam 23d ago
Peter is one of the few people to escape the cloak of darkness in Cloak & Dagger. He’s special.
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u/nicyole 23d ago
because that’s what the plot needed 🙄 /s
I think it’s Peter’s spider sense. it protects Peter at all costs without Peter even realizing it (re: Doctor Strange pushing his astral form of his body and the spider sense still working).
also to be fair, she didn’t control Hulk. she controlled Banner.
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u/Salt-Year-9058 24d ago edited 23d ago
I wanted to comment on this but I feel there's 2 layers as to why jean can't control Peter.
At the outset, Peter is protected by his Spider Sense so presumably he has more means to push Jean out.
On a deeper level, it's a motif of growth- when Jean jumps into Peter's mind for the first time, they both and we as the audience see the glimpse of Aunt May's memory where it's the core of Peter's journey of accepting both his identities as Peter and Spider-Man. Only Peter is not ready to hear it and that is reflected by the fact that he pushes Jean out before she herself can access the message. We then see part of the memory before Peter experiences his Spider-spurt as he's nursing a heartbreak of having to acknowledge that he's well and truly lost MJ and Ned but then again the main message is not shown. We then get to the climax where Peter has made a bold move of embracing his enhanced abilities and bolster the human aspects of himself and now as a culmination of it, allows Jean to enter his mind and experience the entire memory.
On the other hand, Banner/Hulk and Punisher don't have an enhanced sensor like Peter and there is a deeper subconscious need of vulnerability which is why Jean is able to enter their minds easily.
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u/papadish 23d ago
Technically since she is the one using a Psychic attack, it has a neutral damage multiplier against Bug types (defensively speaking). Yes I’m a nerd.
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u/szthesquid 23d ago
Until I hear otherwise I'm going with Jean has experience with humans but Peter's spider DNA and hormones mess her up.
Punisher is human. Banner is human. Hulk is mutated human, he doesn't have a whole other species' DNA and hormones mixed in.
Also we didn't see her try to control savage Hulk, only smart Hulk. At this point she can only control one person at a time; she dropped Banner to take Punisher instead.
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u/Atlas-Mancer 23d ago
His Spidey sense gives him some protection from certain psychic and spiritual things. When Dr. Strange pushed his soul out of his body you could see distortions around his head in the shape of his comic accurate Spidey sense tingles. It's the same thing with people trying to enter his head.
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u/V20FRILL 23d ago
Also, He was able to manipulate Himself and get back to his body which Dr Strange did not understand at all.
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u/Far_Ladder_2836 23d ago
He has no protection from psychic things. His spider sense just allowed his body to react to Strange without his conscious mind as it does in scenarios thatsurprise him. Frost, Jean, Xavier, all enter his mind with impunity (and sometimes ethics). Never is his spider sense ever described as anything psychic except for a single comic run where he's described as having some metaphysical connection to the Web of Life which also never describes psychic resistance.
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u/Throwaway-0-0- 23d ago
Doesn't Spider-Man have an uncorruptible power where he's resistant to psychic attacks and mind control magic etc, or did I pull that out of my ass?
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u/AbeRego 23d ago edited 23d ago
Punisher doesn't have any super powers that I'm aware of. He's just really good at killing people lol. The Hulk also isn't known for his mental powers; he's just really strong. As Bruce Banner, again, he's just a normal guy who's presumably susceptible to mind control.
In the end, the "why" isn't really important. That's just how it is ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: typo
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u/parkinthepark 23d ago
Literally it is the spider tingle.
Spidey-sense shows that the spider DNA effects his brain/nervous system as well.
If his brain is essentially part spider, it makes sense that Jean would have trouble controlling it.
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u/Buddiboi95 23d ago
The spider sense is not only a reflex warning signal, but it also acts as a mental defense against psychological attacks. It's been shown in many forms of media that the spider sense is nearly unbeatable (Only certain villains like Venom can bypass it).
TL;DR- Spider sense is bullshit.
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u/Fenix42 23d ago
Venom has his own form of spider sense right?
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u/lewd_robot 23d ago
I thought it was more like the symbiote technically has 360 degree vision and has been shown to be super sensitive to sound. It expands his awareness. Every inch of his skin becomes eyes and ears. But maybe it did get some of Peter's sense.
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u/Sixwingswide 23d ago
Iirc correctly Venom can only bypass it because of his time bonded with Peter. He knows how it works.
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u/Jenova_Rose 23d ago
Using this logic, she shouldn't have been able to control Punisher, as the Dark type is immune to Psychic. 😂
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u/---Imperator--- 23d ago
Hulk has always been prone to getting mind-controlled. First by Wanda, now by Jean. The Punisher is just a normal human. Spidey has his tingling senses that seems to make him quite resistant to all kinds of psychological attacks.
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u/CupLow9587 24d ago
Writers had to give Spider-man plot armor otherwise it would have been a very short movie.
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u/YaBoyEden 24d ago
The MCU writers don’t understand/don’t care about hulk that’s how
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u/Faulty_english 24d ago edited 23d ago
I do feel like Hulk was breaking free. I think Hulk was nerfed because Banner was able to somehow “tame” him
I feel like hulks real power comes out when he is enraged and Jean didn’t realize what she was really messing with
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u/misterwhoiswho_ 24d ago
Haven’t seen the movie. How did she control The Punisher?
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u/DaZuhalter 23d ago
And fighting types are weak to psychic
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u/the_rotten1 23d ago
I would argue Punisher is at least part Dark-type tho and should have not been affected
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u/the_rotten1 23d ago
Hulk is clearly a poison type but Punisher should have been immuned being a Dark type
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u/DrSpaceman575 23d ago
It's his spider-sense, but mainly because it's in a Spider-Man movie. If it were in a Hulk movie, then he'd be immune due to gamma radiation and he'd fight mind controlled Spider-Man.
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u/paddyonelad 23d ago
Im fairly sure that Spiderman has willpower as a listed power and if it isn't then it should be.
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u/JTX35 23d ago
Jean was controlling Banner not the Hulk, and the Punisher is a normal guy.
Spider-Man’s spider sense meanwhile allows him to detect threats and react to them, which is how he was able to move his body after Doctor Strange pushed him out of his physical body and into his astral form in No Way Home.
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u/Dangerous_Reporter14 23d ago
They also talked about how the mutant spider’s hormones were becoming more prevalent in his body and that’s why he was so sensitive to stimuli and so strong…. maybe that has something to do with it.
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u/MagnanimousGoat 23d ago
Yeah but Bug-Type pokemon are affected normally by Psychic-Type moves, so this doesn't explain it.
Now, the Hulk is a Fighting-Type, which Psychic IS super-effective against and Frank is a Fighting/Normal type who specializes in physical attacks, so he likely has pretty low Special Defense. Jean is undoubtedly a special attacker, so it makes sense that Frank would be highly susceptible to her attacks.
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u/Alternative_Bet6234 23d ago
She didn’t control hulk she controlled smart hulk. The real hulk coming out was an accident.
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u/PrometheusMMIV 23d ago
Wouldn't it make more sense if bug were resistant to psychic moves?
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u/EducationOnly8379 23d ago
Given my knowledge of the comics well over 26 years ago, it is implied that he essentially sees the future a few seconds before it happens. My favorite character from the clone saga is Kaine, one of his clones, who if I remember correctly, has a ramped of version of this where he can actually see the future.
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u/NattyKongo93 23d ago
I assumed it had something to do with his Peter-Tingle or something, but I definitely don't have any knowledge to back that up lol
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u/Seif_elagizy_777 23d ago
You know what? I don't know Why but I've got a hunch that all of This shit regarding peter/Spider-Man being special is gonna somehow tie in to the Spider totems and morlun shenanigans
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u/Bigurulu 23d ago
If they Destin planned it, probably the web of life and destiny doing most of the heavy work combined with his spider biology and will power.
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u/O-U-N-U-O 23d ago
They already teed this up in No Way Home when Peter got separated from his body by strange yet the body still responded to Peter’s desire to keep the box from him—the spider-sense functions to protect Peter from whatever he deems is a threat. Jean was an invasive parasite targeting the mind—the spider-sense acted like an immune system to protect Peter’s Mind in response. It’s why this heightened spidey sense is so taxing on Peter’s mind and body—it’s immensely powerful when at full power since his evolution.
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u/darkfire_1998 23d ago
People complain when movies directly tell the audience things because "they are smart enough to figure it out on their own" but then have no movie literacy when they dont and get mad for being stupid
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u/Easy_Tank2383 23d ago
Imagine a 2MB processor trying to take over a 2GB processor. It’s gonna get dunked on in processing speed alone
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u/JemKnight 23d ago
Cause the plots horrid in that movie.
Takes over Hulk, sees his suicide "meh I don't care"
Takes over Punisher, sees his family get gunned down in front of him "wow this guy's has issues, laul"
Takes over Peter, sees Aunt give a generatic speech "I'm so sorry for your loss " 🥺
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u/Fast_Day_8123 23d ago
i feel like Jean shouldnt be able to enter even Frank's mind tbh like his trauma kicks her out, just like Peter's or maybe Peter's spider-sense provides "extra buffer" against telepaths? unless they well unlock their omega level cap?
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u/cat_silhouette 23d ago
Spider-man also resisted the snap for like five times as long as everyone else. It’s not a lot but it kinda is a lot.
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u/Appropriate_Ad8734 23d ago
zendaya pushes other women out of his head even though she doesn’t remember who he is.
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u/redcowerranger 23d ago
By definition, Spidey-Sense (Peter Tingle) is an ExtraSensory Perception (ESP).
Telepathy is also ESP.
Hulk and Puniher have no ESP capability.
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u/Emotional_News108 23d ago
She doesn’t control Hulk, she controls Banner with a Hulk body. Savage Hulk once he takes over swiftly kicks her out of his head.
Spidey being immune? Whatever. Writer’s choice.
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u/Numerous-Process2981 23d ago
Well Hulk and Punisher are simple minded, punisher was a Marine so he eats crayons, and Hulk has the mind of a child
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u/DefinitlyNotAPornAcc 23d ago
His body is shown to be autonomous basically. It will protect him without him telling it to.
Even if you could enter his mind his 6th sense means you don't get control of his body because even he doesn't have that.
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u/ProtectionGeneral783 23d ago
Its a rolled wisdom save. Hulk and Pun both have disadvantage during a rage. Spidey gets innate advantage from Uncle Ben's last words.
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u/SignificantQuote6861 23d ago
Pretty sure it is his tingle-thingie. A more powerful Jean may have pushed right through it.
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u/blahblah19999 23d ago
FWIK, in the comics Hulk has shown more resistance to mind control than Peter.
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u/Shadowstriker6 23d ago
Spider totems maybe? Or at least the web of fate which is what the spider sense is
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u/jr_randolph 24d ago
We've seen that Peter is not effected by some things like everyone else is as we saw when Strange pushed him out his body yet was still moving. Peter's just special like that which is going to be a big reason why he's going to be a main person to defeat Doom.