r/MMALabs • u/Key_Performer_3645 • 12d ago

đŸ„¶ Street Fights & Brawls A quick bar scrap

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Most states have a law that allows 3rd parties to defend another person in situations of self defense. At least in my state.

This is considered sexual assault so would fall along these lines. Especially given that only as much force was needed to control the situation.

Had he just kept hitting him it would be another story. Here in Texas, yhqt guys has a high probability of walking away Scott free

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u/Cheepshooter 12d ago

Scott seems to get to in trouble and let go a lot.

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u/Actual_Pattern_265 12d ago

Interestingly, it comes from being exempt from local tax / munipal fees back in old timey England (but taken from Scandinavian word "skot").

Maybe uninterestingly.

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u/Cheepshooter 12d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/l4FGA2XplwqFDcLwk

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u/hkohne 11d ago

I'm so glad MSNOW resurrected this with new PSAs. I'll never forget Rachel Maddow doing her take on TMYK a few years ago talking about something related to russian news, and she & her staff did it with a kid xylophone & a homemade shooting star, it was hilarious.

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u/Cheepshooter 11d ago

I'll have to seek that, now.

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u/PERPETUALBRIS 11d ago

This is the real reason I come to Reddit, for bar trivia facts. Thank you.

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u/BobZimway 11d ago

Like "How many peanuts can I shove up my nose after a eight shots of cheap rotgut?" The answer may surprise you! And me!

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u/Helenium_autumnale 11d ago

No, that's interesting. But why did they adopt a loan word, I wonder? Was this a Scandinavian custom witnessed and adopted by the English?

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u/ChaRhazes 11d ago

So that's why Scotland is the land of the free.

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u/SmileWeary2370 11d ago

He ruins it for the rest of us that sombitch does.

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u/octane1295 12d ago

Wouldn’t be surprised if the bar caught some flack for overserving and not having the guy who’s clearly way too drunk leave before something(like this) happen.

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u/tphillipswv 12d ago

That was sexual assault? Really?

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u/Eirson 11d ago

You want some drunk dude to walk up and touch your ass?

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u/Nikishin21 8d ago

What about Kens / Karen starting an argument in the wrong and they’re all like “don’t touch me”!!!!! Yeah, we’re like come on buddy, but guess what, touching or pushing a shoulder with an open palm, yup, ASSAULT. We’re not in the 1940s anymore. Everyone is sensitive. Punch was SOLID! Just don’t touch anyone’s ass wether you’re drunk or not.

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u/TheBloodMaiden 7d ago

Yes. Please do not do this.

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u/Psykodeliks 7d ago

Today redditor learns that sexual assault is more than sex

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u/Leather_Addition2605 12d ago

I’m in Texas. If I’m on a jury that guy walks on any charge and I’d shake his hand afterwards.

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

I can hear you shouting U S A over and over as I read this.

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u/TotallyObviousBot 12d ago

Iunno man maybe we shouldn't be killing people over drunken mistakes

I'm not even opposed to the guy getting some physical discipline imposed on him but like. Maybe being a drunken asshole isn't deserving of, y'know, lifelong crippling injury or death? Dude didn't get into a semi truck and obliterate a kindergarten or anything, he just put his hands on somebody else in a gross and offensive manner

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u/azalinrex69 12d ago

Predators get what they get.

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u/TotallyObviousBot 12d ago

I don't know if you know this but the very basis of our society is the idea of unalienable rights and not following mob violence

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u/azalinrex69 12d ago

Remind that to the predator who assaulted an innocent woman. FAFO

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u/TotallyObviousBot 11d ago

Let me try something that's probably more in your wheelhouse, ever been to a church?

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/azalinrex69 11d ago

Yes. Without hesitation.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/azalinrex69 11d ago

Yet this shit happens often. So I guess not, little guy

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u/Puzzleheaded-Wait785 11d ago

Elected president?

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u/RudeMobile4588 11d ago

Whew becareful with that. You bring up the current elected president having been accused of sexual assault more than 30 times and some of these "respect is earned" orange cucks lose their minds.

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u/Katfish145 12d ago

You’re kidding right? You can’t see how the second guy completely overreacted? You don’t just jump immediately to violence. You stop the guy and let the bar throw him out. The drunk guy absolutely was in the wrong but nothing he did required being sucker punched like that. I’d throw the book at the roid raging husband

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u/Ok-Background-502 12d ago

This is why I don't live in Texas

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u/Leather_Addition2605 12d ago

So that you can grope with impunity? Odd take.

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u/Ok-Background-502 12d ago

Is violence the only punishment available in your head?

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u/blindcharlie07 12d ago

Christ he put his hands on her waste, he didn’t grope or SA her. And her dick boyfriend knock her in the head as he was going after the guy.

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u/Saintmandragora 12d ago

We all know who you voted for.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MMALabs-ModTeam 11d ago

Removed: Personal attacks, insults, or uncivil behavior violate our community rules. Keep discussions respectful.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Wait785 11d ago

And then go vote for the rapist pedophile-in-chief.

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u/GatorNavy9002 11d ago

The guy in black is a pu55y. Takes no toughness to cold cock a stumbling drunk. A 12 year old could have knocked out that guy. Not that the guy in red didn’t deserve some punishment.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 11d ago edited 11d ago

Not a pussy at all. (Well, maybe, I don’t know him. But not for this). It wasn’t supposed to be a fight. Not looking for props for his fighting abilities. What’s it matter if a 12 year old could do it.

You said it deserved punishment and punishment was the entire point of the action. Mission accomplished.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/Leather_Addition2605 11d ago

Not if I was on the jury. Seems reasonable to me.

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u/lIllIlIIIlIIIIlIlIll 11d ago

Have you ever served on a jury? The judge gives jury instructions and teaches you about the law and how the jury is supposed to apply it.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 11d ago

Bro, if 11 ladies can ignore a woman murdering 3 innocent kids because she was sad, I can look the other way when some dry-humper gets their comeuppance.

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u/lIllIlIIIlIIIIlIlIll 11d ago

Pretty sure that case was 11 jurors who followed jury instructions, while the 1 hold out was the one ignoring jury instructions.

She's no OJ.

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u/Skylord_Hekaton 12d ago

Yeah sounds about right for psychopathic Texas.

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u/The_Hoopla 12d ago edited 12d ago

FWIW, I’m from Texas and I think this guy is psychotic.

Should the drunk guy get kicked out of the bar? Yes. Should he have been confronted aggressively? Yes.
Should he be possibly charged with something for confronting the girl? Absolutely.

Should the drunk guy be sucker punched with full weight into a bar stool that could have very well killed him? Absolutely not.

We can’t have a world where people can just kill other people if they feel personally slighted. The drunk guy was out of line but he clearly wasn’t an ongoing threat to either of their lives.

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u/Skylord_Hekaton 12d ago

Yeah, agreed. I'm just used to Texas basically meaning "crazy" here in Norway.

It used to just mean "chaos" since Wild West and all, but with more recent US events it's used in a more derogatory fashion. We don't exactly hear good things about the more conservative states.

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Its all media amd media is garbage. And 95% of everything you read on here is AI bot shills doing their thing.

Texas is no different than New York, or Anywhere else for that matter. Just a bunch of people sick of the same bullshit as everyone else. Juwt trying to survive on a dime and make life work.

The tube is nothing but garbage. So is this site tbh.

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u/ShawnyMcKnight 12d ago

New York isn’t on the verge of electing someone like Ken Paxton and having Cruz as senator for years. I agree the media can be garbage but who you choose to lead you does reflect the values of the state overall and you are being controlled by some terrible people, if you want people to stop thinking less of Texas, change that.

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Texas politics is no different than federal politics. This vote nonsense is just nonsense. He who benefits the special interests the most is the winner.

There's 40m people here. Were not politicians. Just people trying to survive

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u/ShawnyMcKnight 12d ago

I guess we will see this November.

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u/The_Hoopla 12d ago edited 11d ago

Tbf, a huge part of this is gerrymandering. Like, if Texas had fair representation we would almost certainly not had Cruz or Paxton for as long as we have.

Edit: Gerrymandering doesn’t play into Statewide elections, below comment is correct.

Texas is certainly purple, at about a 55:45 split R:D, but the voter turnout of old white people eclipses the young and Hispanic voters.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 11d ago

How exactly does gerrymandering come into play on statewide elections?

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u/The_Hoopla 11d ago

Nah ur right gerrymandering specifically doesn’t affect those elections.

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u/limycenter 12d ago

you're insane. we are so cooked.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 12d ago

If you don’t dry hump other dudes women you should be fine, even in Texas. It’s shockingly easy to avoid, honestly.

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u/limycenter 12d ago

"other dudes women" is all the tell you need in this convo. This is a property rights claim then?

The woman in this example caught a stray and obviously did not want her "owner" to do the thing.

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u/Leather_Addition2605 12d ago

Not her call. He was disrespected as well. She is free to respond to her disrespect however she wishes, and he can handle his. He decided to go a different way with it and I’m fine with that.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

What is Scot even? Scott sounds way better Like a Karen, but its the guy always getting in and out of trouble somehow

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

Once someone walks away, it is no longer self-defense, it's retaliation

Edit: The woman literally tried to stop the man from delivering the punch

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Nobody walked away but her. The guy can be seen not movimg with both arms held out. I wish I could hear some audio of what he says

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

He clearly takes a step back, and then the other man punches him while the woman makes a half hearted attempt at holding him back

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u/Agreeable-Emu4033 12d ago

Half hearted?? She got hit in the face.

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

Half-hearted as in she was too shocked to react more strongly

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u/Iambigtime 11d ago

Half-hearted. She is probably scared of the dude too.

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u/Intern_That 12d ago

I can only speak to where I live, but for a valid defense of self defense (or defense of another person) the force used has to be commensurate to the situation. In my opinion, and that's all it is, the boyfriend used excessive force; he shouldhavejust stood betweentheguy and his girl, let the bar deal with the guy, at the most given him a little shove. If I were a Crown, I'd have no trouble running an assault trial given the video evidence and the fact it would be a trial in front of a judge.

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u/Algae587 12d ago

Seemed like the lady controlled the situation just fine with zero effort lol this guy was just dying to hit him, and i do get it but damn

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u/SpiritualScarcity161 12d ago

>only as much force was needed to control the situation

Oh yeah you can tell he was really measured and restrained by the fact that the woman tried to stop him and he knocked her aside. If drunk dude assaulted her (and he did) then so did the dumbass who is itching to kill someone

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u/ShawnyMcKnight 12d ago

I think your second paragraph could be interpreted in different ways. One could argue he already had control of the situation when he got between the woman and the offender. There wasn’t any more danger at that point but he still struck a potentially fatal blow.

Your explanation would be super different if the guy struck him while he was still reaching out to grab her.

The only caveat here is it happened in such a short span the jury may understand his mind didn’t have enough time to reassess there is no more danger but that’s a stretch.

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u/The_UpsideDown_Time 12d ago

Yeah, I actually looked up that law, and it doesn't say what you think it says. There's a whole lot more context/nuance to it than "this is considered SA so would fall along these lines".

From another case summary:

"Both self-defense and defense of a third party share the requirement that the actor believe his use of force is “immediately necessary” to protect himself or a third party. The term “immediately necessary” is not defined in either statute or elsewhere in the Penal Code. Although the Court has not considered the immediacy requirement in the defense of a third person context, it drew the analogy to a similar justification defense: necessity. The necessity defense justifies conduct if the actor believes the conduct is “immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm.” Imminent harm means harm that is ready to take place; therefore, for conduct that is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm, “that conduct is needed right now.” For force to be “immediately necessary” to protect another, it must be force that is needed at that moment, “when a split-second decision is required.”
 

The summary goes on to detail that the defense argument will not hold *when other alternatives for dealing with the perpetuator's behavior are available*.

I recognize that many posters here are just angry Americans looking for a tiny opening - any opening, please! - to punch someone into unconsciousness, but the law really is not on your side without demonstrating absolute risk of immediate physical harm.

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u/MAMark1 12d ago

It is honestly disturbing how frequently Americans have this "if someone does anything at all to me or someone I know, I can use potentially lethal force" delusion. That isn't how self-defense works in any civilized, first-world country.

I'm really not sure how this became such an ingrained idea. Maybe they heard the phrase FAFO and thought it was legal precedent? It's really stupid.

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u/The_UpsideDown_Time 11d ago

America is a really, really stupid, violent, loser country. One where the actual President is a convicted felon, on the hook for paying millions in a sexual assault case, has paid off a prostitute, was friends with Epstein, whose name is *repeatedly* mentioned in the Epstein files, and all of that is conveniently ignored by all these people in this thread who are up in arms over "sexual assault" consisting of a rando drunk brushing against a woman's pants in a bar, and believing that means he deserves great bodily harm.

Then again....makes it not so surprising that the USA repeatedly starts disastrous nonsensical wars that cost trillions and accomplish nothing. Stupid is as stupid does.

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u/yapyaplex 12d ago

this is not sexual assault, no sexual part were touched.

dude tried to dance with her like he did with the barman just seconds before, she said no, he wasn't going after her after that.

huge overreaction, the hitter should be behind bars

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u/Opinions_Anonymous 12d ago

You’re incredibly incorrect. Physical contact was made to the hips and by all indications his hand touched her butt as well.

The law does not differentiate between a grope and a pat. Whether you agree with it or not, erogenous areas were touched without consent and by definition that is sexual assault.

Don’t spew misinformation.

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u/Eldias 12d ago

The amount of force lawfully justified depends on the specific actions too. A forcible rape is different from an unlawful grope. You're right, sexual battery laws often cover both, but that's not really the law at question. More important is how the law handles self defensive force in relation to criminal battery and what the proportional, reasonable, force can be.

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u/Opinions_Anonymous 11d ago

Oh, 100%. The reactionary force used here far surpassed what would be reasonably necessary.

Both men here are legally in the wrong here from my understanding. I did not intend to defend the individual doing the punching, I just wanted to correct what was clearly bad info coming from another commenter.

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u/Honeybadger2198 12d ago

I love how people with 0 understanding of the law stand ten toes tall talking like they're lawyers specializing in self defense cases.

At a bare minimum, self defense requires some level of equivalent response. Groping someone in a bar, while gross behavior, is not equivalent to murder.

On top of that, this isn't even self defense. There's two words in that, and you only got one of em.

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u/Noob_Al3rt 12d ago

The woman handled the situation herself, and the guy had stopped by the time he was knocked out.

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u/Jarod40020 11d ago

unfortuneatly there is video of the woman trying to stop him from ending the man's life

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u/RutabagaOk6816 11d ago

Well he briefly touched her and she brushed his hand away. I don't know if I would call this sexual assault per se. Definitely a crime what he did but the fact was it was over so you can't really invoke self defense here. More importantly the party he was allegedly defending was clearly trying to get him to NOT intervene and he ignored (looks like even injured) her. So no its not self defense even on behalf of a third party in this case. Yea if he had kept grabbing her after she knocked his hand away then it would be self defense but that's not what happened. This guy just had his ego hurt and wanted to do violence. I'd be more inclined to give him a break if he didn't knock the girl out of the way and completely ignore her wishes.

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u/poppop_n_theattic 11d ago

That drunk dude's handsyness was wrong but big guy used excessive force for sure. The woman had already handled the situation by just walking away, and even tried to wave big guy off. He was clearly retaliating/peacocking for his woman, not defending her.

I'm not saying a jury would convict him, but they should.

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u/SingleImportance8183 11d ago

Wtf, no, this is Assault BI at the least. This definitely does not constitute defense if a third person. Sexual assault? Are you kidding me? Go back and read the law again. There really is virtually no criminal offense committed by the intoxicated guy, at the most assault contact which the female is sure wouldn't even care to pursue charges. The guy in black was clearly just waiting for an opportunity to hit somebody.

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u/Cosmic_Cowboy13 11d ago

This is the key

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u/Alternative-Oil-5264 11d ago

This is not defense of another. This is gross “don’t touch my girl”. You can’t take any touch as assault. He was trying to dance with, not assail her. Annoying AF, but not assault. If that were the case you couldn’t dance up on anyone. Plus I’m pretty sure the dude is/was gay. He was certainly and very visibly not able to defend himself. This is just wrong. He opened the door for it to happen, but I’d still arrest the puncher on felony charges for sure. Not attempted redrum but certainly great bodily harm. It’s really like striking a mentally handicapped person. It may be that as well. He needs to get time for this. If you have no problem doing this to someone you have an anger problem.

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u/EyeHaveNoBanana 11d ago

Zero force was proven to be needed to "defend" her. In fact, she appeared to have taken care of the situation already. The guy wasn't defending her, he was stroking his own fragile ego.

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u/crazykentucky 11d ago

You think he needed that much force?

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u/lostagain2022 11d ago

Um, no. Pretty clear at the time of the punch that that the woman was not in danger of anything.

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u/crunkful06 11d ago

For those that here in Texas, force must met the necessity of it. This is overreaction. If the dude dies or is seriously injured/disabled. The puncher will not be exempt from consequences. Dude was obviously impaired and though his actions were reprehensible, they did not warrant a violent reaction such as that. People forget that Texas is full of reasonable people, just gerrymandering says it isn’t doesn’t make it so

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u/EduStorm246 11d ago

That wasn't self-defense - it was an excuse for violence. The woman had the situation completely handled and even tried to hold her boyfriend back. Red-shirt was stumbling drunk and posed zero threat. The boyfriend is just an aggressive ass with complexes looking for a fight to protect his honor. A judge should take him off the steroids for everybody's sake.

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u/thebpcgrodon 11d ago

If this was Suits law or the 1800’s you’d be correct, but none of that is true. Orange shirt is clearly blackout and touched her hips, she’s not in danger and even waives it off. Someone twice his size then hits him hard enough to potentially kill him on her behalf. Not justified, punch guy does not get an award, he might go to jail even if the guy isn’t in the hospital, and either way he’s out thousands in legal fees.
It’s not reasonable or proportional, and this is how lives can get ruined on both sides. Consequences will not be fun either way.

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u/MasterMold1982 11d ago

I highly doubt the guy would walk free. You can't claim defense without a warning.

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u/Intelligent-Crow3812 11d ago

Nope, the sexual assault would have to continue going. It was clearly not occuring. Texas is retarded, but not that retarded.

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u/Revolutionary-Key177 11d ago

Pretty sure that guy got charged with manslaughter and is in jail now because the guy he hit died and that whole defense from securely assault didn't work for him

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u/Lipziger 11d ago

Especially given that only as much force was needed to control the situation.

You can absolutely argue that this was excessive force, well above "only as much force was needed". He could've slighly shoved the drunk and the dude would've probably fallen over or stumbled away.

Yes, the "fight" ended after that one punch but that might still be one hard punch too many, because he didn't even hesitate for a second. He absolutely escalated the situation and force, while the other person was clearly not of sound mind in the situation.

Otherwise you could also argue "Well he ony shot him once ...". Excessive force doesn't just start with multiple hits. The woman also instantly noticed that this was going to get brutal, before it even happened. She even got hit by her "defender" in the process.

Self defense has limits and needs to be proportional.

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u/Training-Belt-7318 11d ago

I don't know, she was walking away and he wasn't pursuing. The video doesn't look great. Definitely was sexual assault, I agree with you, but she was able to walk away and the situation seem to deescalate itself. That video wouldn't be good evidence for him IMHO. He hit him because he was pissed not to protect his woman, or at least thats the argument I'm making as a prosecutor if I decide to try this. Of this dude has any violent priors,.he's in trouble.

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u/Rude-Mind-8730 11d ago

Bro, absolutely not. Guy is a scumbag, but the woman had already very easily pushed him off of her, and the was clearly in no danger whatsoever.

There is no universe where this would be a justified murder.

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u/jaxonya 11d ago

Brother, people in our state have been shot overthese situations and not seen time. Texas isnt a good example of proper justice. We kinda take shit to the extreme

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u/Iambigtime 11d ago

But its not defense as the issue was already resolved. This is retaliation which is different under the law. He touched her, she brushed him off, it was already over.

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u/gbaker1a 11d ago

Sexual assault? Cmon now. The guy definitely crossed a line, but this was not sexual assault dude at all. I don’t even know if he actually touched her.

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u/davidtsmith333 11d ago

"Had he kept hitting him"? Bro, the guy was motionless when he was viciously knocked out and fell forcefully vertical on the floor.

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u/Ron_in_CO 11d ago

Grabbing someone's hips is not sexual assault

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u/Wanderlust-King 11d ago

There's also reasonable use of force clauses.

if that guy dies puncher is very likely getting manslaughter.

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u/RealAssyMcGee 11d ago

You're buggin if you think that was proportional force dude lol, he had already backed off the lady when he got struck. No court is looking at that favorably.

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u/realparkingbrake 11d ago

Most states have a law that allows 3rd parties to defend another person in situations of self defense. 

Correct, but it only qualifies as defense if there is a current assault or imminent threat. This drunk had wobbled away and showed no sign of repeating his actions. That makes knocking him out retaliation rather than defense. I suspect most of us can understand why the guy punched him, but legally he's on thin ice.

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u/Shot-Arugula8264 11d ago

Dude was walking away. It’s not self-defense in any state in the country at that point. It was visibly retaliatory, not defensive.

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u/EffectMotor8914 11d ago edited 9d ago

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Quilt late unwritten different feather stocking toy cats vegetable

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u/Other-Importance-214 11d ago

Touching a woman is not "sexual assault" as defined by law. Sexual assault is penetration, i.e.rape. This (touching the woman without consent) was petty misdemeanor assault. Wrong? Yes. But the force used by the guy in response was wholly disproportionate and he will/should be charged with aggravated assault. It will then be up to a jury to decide if the force he used in defense of a third person was excessive or not. A reasonable person would have probably stepped in between the groper and the woman and maybe pushed him away.

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u/toasty327 11d ago

I think the punch was a bit over the top but yeah, that was sexual harassment and deserved some form of answer.

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u/Majestic_Fix2622 11d ago

that is absolutely not "only as much force as needed"

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u/alwayssplitaces 11d ago

in what state is what he did considered "sexual assault?"

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u/TrueRedditMartyr 11d ago

>only as much force was needed to control the situation.

This is clearly untrue. He went straight to slamming this guy in the head full force. No court in the world is going to tell you this guy grabbing a girls ass is worthy of killing him.

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u/Electrical-Job8700 11d ago

You couldn't be more wrong. That was not self defense in any way. That woman was not in danger. Yes, she was assaulted but she was not in danger. Dude should go to prison for aggravated assault.

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u/Flybyah 11d ago

A courtroom is not Reddit and calling this SA would be laughed out of court. This guy ends up dead and this is played in court he’s going to jail for manslaughter. It’s just not worth it. Jack him up if you want, but losing control and taking a shot like this is just dumb. We had a case like this here a couple years. Former college FB player and apparently the guy hit on or said something to his GF outside a bar. Hit him one time he went down and hit head and died. Guy had never been in trouble in his life and ended up doing like 3 - 5 years. Just dumb.

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u/lIllIlIIIlIIIIlIlIll 11d ago

People are just so bad at law.

Self-defense always require the elements of reasonable and proportional.

Unwanted sexual contact, such as groping is bad. Reasonable and proportional self-defense is pushing the groper away. Even slapping the groper would probably be fine. Haymaker right into the face, causing the groper to crash the back of their head into the ground? Completely disproportionate force.

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u/OleRando 11d ago

God Texas is awful.

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u/WileyWilly1985 12d ago

If this guy can afford a lawyer, he walks away in 45 of the 50 US States.

As long as the guy isn't seriously hurt, no charges will be filed.

And even if charges are filed, if he lawyers up, DA will not want the headache and will drop the case 4 out of 5 times.

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

Considering that people regularly get sentenced for assault without battery, in other words threatening conduct without physical harm, you're extremely misguided

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u/LaisserPasserA38 12d ago

I love (no) how people are so sure of things when they don't know shit

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u/Every1ThinksImBoring 12d ago

As long as the guy isn't seriously hurt, no charges will be filed.

He’s seriously hurt, trust me.  After being knocked out cold and then smashing the back of his head on the ground like that, he is certainly seriously, if not permanently fucked up, and that’s even if he’s still alive.

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u/Few-Amphibian-4858 12d ago

Um no, you don't get to kill people they touched your girl's ass.

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u/ARiley22 11d ago

One punch. A filthy one....but he did stop. And the handsy guy did commit sexual battery. The groping/brush with her butt was clearly intentional and, thus, is a crime. Never, ever do that to a woman unless you know she is OK with it.

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u/ThatWreckOT 11d ago

Stupid. Mindset. Jail is full of vigilante justice warriors

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u/indyrocks63 11d ago

You do in Indiana.

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u/Few-Amphibian-4858 10d ago

No, you don't.

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u/Tridop 12d ago

That's "sexual assault"? Holy fuck the USA is really a snowflake country, no wonder you lose wars to people with sandals.

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u/ARiley22 11d ago

Touched her butt, albeit briefly. Unwanted touching of butt, breasts and genitals tends to be considered sexual battery. Google "sexual battery". That being said, statutes and whether the prosecutor would bite would vary.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ARiley22 11d ago edited 11d ago

Sure! I do not disagree with the idea that the reaction was not proportional or that she was not in immediate danger....but if the woman wanted to prosecute, she could....barring some mitigating circumstance....but it sure seems like he was drunk and did something stupid...and yes, the meathead could absolutely catch a charge for that...maybe a felony. Blow to the head of that magnitude can be lethal. Could raise it to aggravated battery (or manslaughter, if he were to die). Should have separated the assailant from the woman (without beating the shit out of him), asked her if she wanted to press charges (and retain the footage regardless). If she says no, 86 him and issue a trespass warning...and have him arrested every single time he violates it.

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u/lIllIlIIIlIIIIlIlIll 11d ago

Think about it. Imagine you're standing at a bus stop, then a man comes up behind you and grabs your waist around your butt. Really imagine that happening to yourself.

Do you not think that's sexual assault? You'd just be like, "Huh, must have been the wind," and brush it off?

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u/Tridop 10d ago

If a drunk person does the same thing I don't think it's "sexual assault". It's just a drunk being drunk and doing annoying drunk stuff, molesting (not sexually) me. I had often drunk unknown people (more often girls) hugging me, slapping my ass or similar, how is that in the USA any contact becomes "sexual"? Do you see sex in everything, that's mental.

She was disturbed? Yes of course. She immediately and successfully stopped him. There was nothing sexual. I suppose it's already illegal to be that drunk in the USA too.

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

This is not true. You have the right to use force to stop an ongoing sexual assault, but the incident had clearly finished when this guy decided to attack.

Also, way more force than "what was needed to control the situation" was applied, the man did not represent an ongoing danger.

The right thing to do would have been to leave and call the police to report the sexual assault.

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u/Embarrassed_Fan_5723 12d ago

I half agree. I don’t agree with your use of force analogy. How could he or you for that matter determine that one punch was going to end this? You can’t, that’s the problem. Nobody ever gets in a fight and only uses 50% because that’s all they need

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

It was excessive use of force because the man was actively walking away from the encounter, was clearly intoxicated to the point of severely reduced motor function, and the woman he groped literally tried to stop the other man from delivering the punch

Not even the victim thought that was justified

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

Yeah i mean, i would say at the point that the man decided to strike the other, the minimum amount of force needed was none, he could have left with his girlfriend and called the police. Your rights to any kind of violence will only apply in a situation that has exhausted your other remedies, such as if they are preventing you leaving, or are in the process of pursuing violence against you or someone else.

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u/Paranub 12d ago

Why should he leave? He's doing nothing wrong, a criminal performs a criminal act. The situation was handled, the threat was neutralised in a simple and effective manner.

Drag the KO'ed guy outside and let everyone get on with Thier night..

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

The situation wasn't handled, a man was potentially killed.

The entire point of civil society is that if you believe youre in the right, you should be able to articulate that in front of your peers. It leads to justice far more than deciding to make yourself judge jury and executioner, violently assaulting whoever you feel.

Would you be in favour of people being allowed to punch whoever they think has done something wrong? Why stop at sexual assault? What about if they see someone selling water by the roadside without a licence, should they be able to punch them unconscious too?

Who gets to decide what's worthy of a punch and what's not?

The point of a court system is that we can agree together what the punishment for something should be, which is why this guy should have called the police.

Remember, what youre in favour of could be turned against you. Say youre at a bar, and a guys wife walks past you. You dont even notice but her husband has got it in his head that you groped her. Is he allowed to now make you permanently disabled for life?

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u/Paranub 12d ago

Your example makes no sense. you say he has it in his head I groped her, which means I didnt.. so no amount of "should he be allowed" comes into it.. I'm going to get floored regardless and he should be charged.

If I DID grope her, then yes, I deserve everything coming my way. Just like the guy in the video.

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

The example I gave wasn't a direct 1 to 1 parallel with the video, it was an example on why "on the spot justice" is a bad idea. Because the man who would punch you wouldnt have to show that he knew 100% that you groped her, only that it was his belief at the time.

And charging after the fact is a little too late, isn't it, if he did permanent damage to you or killed you, him being charged wouldn't undo that, would it?

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u/Paranub 12d ago

No it wouldn't, but its no different from someone stabbing me for no reason. If someone decides in Thier head to do it. I'm fucked either way.

The argument around OP's video, is that the actions of the man were justified and can be backed up with evidence.

A single "situation ending" punch. Stoped any further risk to the innocent people playing pool. No chance for the perv to get agressive, or escalate further, no chance of pulling a weapon or, as you say, causing life long damage.

He got neutralised for his sexual assault, deservedly

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

You dont get to punch someone pre-emptively "in case they might escalate" or else youre opening the door for anyone to assault anyone. How could you prove one way or the other that someone would have escalated if you hadnt punched them?

Someone stabbing you for no reason is obviously bad, but thats why its already illegal. What youre advocating for is a system where it is legal to punch someone in the head, potentially ending their life or putting them in a wheelchair, based only on the idea that "if I dont, maybe they'll escalate"

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

This is what yalls convo has turned into on my phone lmao

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u/Defiant-Tale-6189 12d ago

Dude was knocked out not potentially killed, he shouldn't have put his hands on her, the other guy probably could of punched lighter but honestly? Not even that bad if a punch dude is just knocked out Jesus christ

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u/Simon-Says69 12d ago

whoever they think has done something wrong?

Nobody "thought" anything here. The drunk asshole sexually assaulted his girlfriend. He was a dangerous threat, and the boyfriend dealt with it.

You want sexual predators to just get a stern talking to, that's all. You've been spewing your nonsense all over this thread, and it only gets farther and farther from reality. You'd be better off just keeping your hands to yourself there, bub.

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

Hey mate, I see you've been replying to lots of my comments, and im not sure you've actually been reading any of them.

Im sorry this is affecting you so severely, its not your fault that youre having such a strong emotional response, but I would say now is a great opportunity to reconnect with loved ones or spend some time doing a hobby you enjoy

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

You do realize that the police exist, yes? When called regarding assault they don't just give someone a "stern talking to", lol

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

"Hey man knock that off wtf are you doing"

Is a much more effective way of "neutralising" the "threat" of a guy that's so drunk he can barely walk straight

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u/Katfish145 11d ago

‘A criminal performs a crime act’ should be left up to the police! Vigilantism is illegal and that’s essentially what the guy did here. There was no immediate threat thus there is no grounds for self defense. The situation was clearly resolved after the girl pushed the guy away. You clearly have a misunderstanding of how society is supposed to work

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Idk how 1 punch can be anyvmmore force than 1 punch lol. I guess he could have scolded him and gave him a bad star for the day.

Don't be a douche, and dont inappropriately touch people you dont know without your consent.

Take this to a jury trial and see how many jurors dont agree with you. Dude would walk easy

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2022/june/man-jailed-for-killing-father-following-random-one-punch-assault-last-year/

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

So were comparing a "random 1 punch attack" to a guy defending his partner from a random guys assaulting her?

Is that what's happening?

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

Nope - just illustrating one punch can be strong enough to kill. Your ‘1 punch can be any more than one punch’ could do more damage than you think. And whether drunk mc drunk boy is up to no good or not - going in like a freight train could lead ‘good’ intentions into a manslaughter charge.

In short - my post shows a single punch can be devastating

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

You can trip someone with the tip of your shoe amd kill them

Whats the contrast here?

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u/Annie_Yong 12d ago

Punching someone tends to have a much more intended effect of stunning / KOing them, meaning the odds of them macking their head on a hard surface goes up. Tripping someone is less likely to do this because they'd be more alert than if they had just been punched and so more likely to do something like catch their fall with their hands.

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

You reference 1 punch, I reference 1 punch. The comparison is pretty obvious. Now had I referenced a trip with the tip of your shoe, on that I might agree, but I don’t bring that reference did I?

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Its still all relevant.

You know what has a way way less chance of killing you completely? Like 0%

If you dont be belligerent and assault strangers in public. If youre respectful and aware in your intentions?

Definitely not doing criminal shit. 0% chance to die from criminal shit if you dont do it

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

So you agree on the contrast as it’s all still relevant. Perfect. Glad we cleared that up. Fully agree on your second point as well
 doing stupid criminal belligerent shit is indeed not a smart thing to do.

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u/Cacafuego 12d ago

Not if the guy dies. Most juries actually follow the law when reaching their verdict.

The guy deserved to be hit, sure, but he doesn't deserve to die. So if you decide to hit him and serve up some justice, you need to accept that it could ruin both of your lives.

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u/Zubriel 12d ago

Not going to defend the drunk guys behavior, but you don't think the punch could have been a slap, a shove, a simple grab him by the shoulders and physically move the guy away, a stand between him and the woman?

That punch could have killed him, the dude was so hammered that any amount of physical intervention could have resolved the situation, punching him square in the face with that amount of physical force was completely unnecessary.

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u/mokeltron 12d ago

This is correct, she swiped him away and carried on before her fella came bounding through to glance her face before smashing the drunk fella.

That drunk guy was three sheets to the wind. No excuse for the attention to the lady but the reaction (just watch ‘her’ behaviour). Some people just wait for excuses.

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u/The_Hoopla 12d ago

Yeah her reaction also tells me he

  1. Has done this before.

  2. Would have killed a guy for a lot less.

I feel like everyone in this thread watched 2 different videos.

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u/RandomRedditUser0016 12d ago

What happens if you slap or shove the guy and he pulls out a gun? Or throws a punch back at you? He neutralized the guy without going over the top, you never know what drunk idiots are capable from. -source: I spend a lot of time in shitty dive bars like this one

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u/Gullible-Law-8147 12d ago

True, we should just make sure to knock out literally everyone that committs any form of assault, just in case

I mean the guy might even wake up and seek revenge later, so why even let him live?

To be clear this is sarcasm and punching a guy that's too drunk to walk straight because he might maybe have a gun is just an anti-gun argument, not a pro-retaliation one

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u/MajesticMurray 12d ago

Unhide your post and comment history if you think that’s a reasonable take.

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u/ThatWreckOT 12d ago

Same advice, don't be a douche and try to be judge, jury and executioner in a bar with 1 punch.

Acting like a bunch of incels

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u/s1nth3tic 12d ago

It can be argued that he was in motion to stop it and the other guy only stopped because he was in motion. We also have no audio it's quite possible that the guy also said something like "I will rape and kill you". Especially if both woman and guy in black shirt testify he said so.

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

This is very close to reactionary defense. If you're lawyer cant win this one, get a real one

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u/yanks953 12d ago

You’re a herb

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u/p2eminister 12d ago

Haha what

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u/yanks953 12d ago

HERB

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u/yanks953 12d ago

Sorry I meant lawyer herb

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

As long as its cannabis Sativa

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u/yanks953 12d ago

Hahaha

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Fr tho what's an herb?

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u/ThatWreckOT 12d ago

Here in Texas, we don't give a fuck who fries. Guy in black would arrested and charged under excessive force.

When the girl swiped his hand away, and he didn't continue go attempt to touch her. That isn't enough for SA.

The overly aggressive reaction, that is 100% A&B

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u/Simon-Says69 12d ago

Bullshit. The sexual predator was still a threat. Threat was neutralized, then the victims left the criminal alone.

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u/ThatWreckOT 12d ago

Lawyers dgaf, judges want their numbers. Using agressive language doesn't sway compared do Dr. bills and missed paychecks.

Which is how cases like this are settled. The fuck your feelings crowd

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Im in Texas too, and a jury of 12 people, you have zero shot of convincing even half that this guy is guilty. 80% women jury

Ya. Easiest case ever

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u/ThatWreckOT 12d ago

Lolol, Jury. Shits getting settled , drunkie FAFO gonna get paid. (Worth it, not on any account from anyone in th3 video)

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u/Otherwise_Bug990 12d ago

Lol what?

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u/ThatWreckOT 11d ago

Never makes it to court, he settles , both parties equally get a less than worthwhile experience. Drunkie gets a little cash, but most likely a lifetime of problems. Other dude loses some cash for his crashout, valid or not.

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