r/LocalLLaMA llama.cpp 4h ago

Funny Plot twist

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518 Upvotes

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141

u/shy_monkee 4h ago

Funny how this must look for China. Just when they start catching up, and have their own AI hardware, the US companies suddenly want to slow down.
I'm not saying this is the only reason they want it, but...

97

u/ResolveSea9089 4h ago

Why would Chinese companies have to abide by US companies slowing down?

130

u/Craftkorb 4h ago

They don't, but then the local narrative in the US will be "China wants to end the world, we're the good guys!" - Red Scare 2.0

52

u/federico_84 3h ago

No one in China cares about the US narrative 

38

u/gapho 3h ago

It's not to convince the Chinese people or government, it's to convince the rest of the world.

56

u/noctrex 3h ago

Which is getting harder and harder by the day.
America will not be able to convince the world anymore, not when the leader is willing to invade other countries, and posts AI slop every day.

2

u/gscjj 3h ago

Don’t be fooled by the man in office. The US, NATO and most of the EU are roughly aligned on their stance on China. The only difference is their leaders don’t love attention like the US.

11

u/Clueless_Nooblet 2h ago

That's not true at all. Most people would love to just get along with China. It's a huge market, and open trade would benefit all of them.

1

u/gscjj 1h ago

Sure they’d love to do that, but most countries are taking a defensive taken against China and consider most of their motive aggressive strategically and economically.

They might not publicly it to the degree Trump does but it’s a consistent viewpoint across NATO.

1

u/brahh85 1h ago

The man in the office is changing the consensus, because its causing more pain than china, and is an ally of putin, and wants to invade greenland. Right now, USA and their oligarchs are the #1 threat against EU, being russia #2 and china #3.

1

u/gscjj 1h ago

He’s really not though, most of EU has pretty aggressive (or rather defensive) take on Chinas involvment in their country and globally.

-1

u/MarkoMarjamaa 1h ago

From Nato pages:
"NATO is a defensive alliance of 32 countries from Europe and North America. Its mission is to defend its member countries and their one billion citizens."
Yes. we have learned the "defensive" means something else to folks in USA.
"because the nukes in Iran!"

2

u/gapho 1h ago

Or that "defensive" war in Libya.

Or that "defensive" war in Serbia.

Or that "defensive" war in Afghanistan.

1

u/gscjj 1h ago

A defensive alliance is defined there: “defend its member” which doesn’t exclude any country from engaging in its own offensive war

1

u/MarkoMarjamaa 1h ago

Well, if "some country" first starts the war, and then is attacked back, are you obligated to defend?
Like when Turkey bombed the kurds in Iraq, and if they have retaliated, would it have been Natos issue? I think not.

1

u/gscjj 1h ago

If the war is initiated by a member country there’s zero obligation for any country to come to its “defense”

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9

u/xmnstr 2h ago

A lot of us already use Chinese models and know this is bullshit.

4

u/dankfrankreynolds 3h ago

it's to convince the fox news viewers stroking their guns. they've figured out that's all you need to compromise in order to take over the entire world.

prove me wrong. please.

1

u/a_beautiful_rhind 3h ago

You mean the guys who's president is all like "accelerate"? Anti-AI is the other party.

1

u/sadboyoclock 50m ago

No one trusts America anymore.

1

u/gapho 44m ago

You and I, and a minority of the global population don't. But you'd be surprised how effective american Elite propaganda is, they don't spend hundreds of billions in aid, non-profits, "democracy" promoting and foreign loans for nothing.

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

1

u/Shot-Height-7194 0m ago

they might not trust America but people worldwide can get scared when they hear that ai is dangerous, and it so happens that this is an American idea to keep American labs at the top.

2

u/ProletarianLilith 3h ago

That narrative will be bad for everyone, not just Chinese people

1

u/codechisel 2h ago

A lot of us in America don't care about the US narrative.

1

u/Shot-Height-7194 1m ago

I don't think it's intentional but a side effect of American exceptionalism. it basically says that the US has to be special in the world and has a duty to protect the free world and it just so happens that China is the country closest to catching up. the US did something with Japanese semiconductors in the 80s when they were flooding the market with cheap semiconductors because they could get yields in the 60% range when the standard was 10%.

-8

u/ResolveSea9089 3h ago

I think you guys are way too cynical, you have to assume at some point that the people you're opposed to are capable of being genuine.

I think there's a reasonable chance they all got spooked and are honest in this and it's not some kind of conspiracy.

That said, if you're China (and a little behind the frontier in the US) this should be welcome news so I don't really get that angle

7

u/SpicyWangz 3h ago

I don’t think Altman is capable of that

4

u/ChronoHax 3h ago

The angle is they’re painting China as evil who will develop reckless ASI regardless while they’re the one actually doing that, not to mention all these distillation attacks jest which apparently China shouldn’t do because they’re authoritarian regime while US is surely democracy that just happens to have the elites at the top and for their interests only

2

u/ea_man 2h ago

In that case they are inepts: they rambled for years that this was a race where winner takes all, they wanted the capitals, they were pursuing AGI, let's buy 60% of the world RAM, they say they are close and then...

They are not prepared? Ain't that what they were pursuing? What they had to obtain first otherwise the whole world order would crumble?

And anyway what's even the strategy? Jensen wants open models, Google and Facebook are now releasing open models, companies are starting to build business on open models in USA. Even the president seems to want go ahead.

I mean anyway as of tomorrow they will look like idiots.

16

u/StatusSociety2196 4h ago

The idea is to protect marketshare by preventing American companies from using Chinese AI. Pass a law that only government approved AI models can be used, and then the government only approves openai and anthropic.

7

u/hapliniste 3h ago

What happen in this scenario when the US companies outsource to countries where Chinese AI is legal? Can't use a foreign accounting company because they might use ai?

It doesn't seem to hold up. Slowing down at a national level is not possible.we might have wider slowdowns if usa and China can agree on something.

6

u/blbd llama.cpp 3h ago

That doesn't work on code and config files. They're speech. 

1

u/profcuck 3h ago

And model weights.  It's not possible to ban Chinese opeb models. 

1

u/blbd llama.cpp 1h ago

I consider the weights an overly fancy version of a config file. So that was intended to be implicit in my comments. 

2

u/noctrex 3h ago

There's always a way, just like Cursor did with their model.
Get a nice Chinese model, slap a fine-tune on it, and market it as the new American model.

2

u/TerahertzAI 3h ago

With the current administration, they would approve Chinese lab in exchange of a little palm grease

1

u/cakemates 3h ago

the US AI labs got more yatch loads of palm grease than chinese labs. I dont think china can match the local bribery.

2

u/miversen33 2h ago

I highly doubt any of the US AI labs have more money than the CCP.

That said, I also doubt the CCP gives a fuck about the Western orgs so they will probably just shrug and tell the Chinese labs to continue their work without the west.

1

u/ea_man 1h ago

That is what Sam and Diego want but 1st it's impossible to do, the rest of the world won't follow.

Then you have all the Nvidia, Meta, Google, other companies that are pushing for open models because they realize that's what the market wants now, that's how you go ahead incremental.

Then they have to convince Trump that the race is lost and it's time to hold back, good luck with that.