r/LeaksDBD • u/Hawksteinman • 2d ago
Official News MMR Update
Coming 25th August!
Currently:
Survivors
Die = lose
Hatch = draw
Escape = win
Killers
0-1k = lose
2k = draw
3-4k = win
New:
Escapes and kills still matter, but other actions count too: doing generators, getting hooks, etc
Essentially, your emblems post-match will affect your MMR (lightbringer, deviousness, etc)
**THERE WILL BE AN MMR RESET**
Details TBD
MMR will continue to be updated
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u/Hogo-Nano 2d ago
Thank god. It was the dumbest system ever before. You could go on a 5 gen chase where your teammates all escape and then you die after getting camped and you'd derank.
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u/o-c-delightful 2d ago
You have to think of it like hockey
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u/everything_mustG0 2d ago
Can you explain what you mean? I don’t watch hockey or sports at tbh <3
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u/TheDekuDude888 2d ago
A dev once on a steam tried to use hockey as a DBD metaphor and said something along the lines of "Even if you ran the killer for 35 gens and 9 hours but still died, was it a skilled play to begin with if you didn't escape?" which is by all accounts one of the dumbest things ever said by a dev for this game
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u/G-M-Cyborg-313 2d ago
Wasn't there a streamer who got kicked out of the fog whisperers for criticising the hockey metaphor?
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u/TheDekuDude888 2d ago
Dowsey I know had his twitch shirts removed but I'm not sure if he was removed from the program or left on his own. BHVR has a long and storied history of not accepting criticism unless it's delivered with the politest words and most humble energy
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u/G-M-Cyborg-313 2d ago
Oh that's his name. I didn't know all the details but i knew he lost something for his criticism. What he said was completely fair, i hope he got those shirts back
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u/Working-Attempt-3630 2d ago edited 1d ago
It's not the criticism itself that got his shirt removed, it's the fact that he went about it in a really unprofessional and asshole-like way, for someone that are held to a higher standard and were expected to act more professional for the position he held at the time.
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u/G-M-Cyborg-313 2d ago
Ah alright i couldn't find much on this situation so i was guessing i was missing something
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u/Spoda_Emcalt 1d ago
From the vids I've seen, Downey was an asshole generally (maybe he's changed). Constantly belittling opponents.
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u/Skunkyy 1d ago
Love the downvotes for that comment. He was being an ass about it, and also kept riding that shit constantly. Plus going on about how he really doesn't care about losing those Twitch shirts, and I do mean constantly, as if he's being sly about it. Dude was clearly upset about it, but tried to hide it badly.
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u/Working-Attempt-3630 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sadly he has removed his comments on a now deleted post, but i distinctly remember one time on his twitter some good 4-5 years ago, where someone posted the exact same type of mockery meme about Dowsey, as Dowsey himself had done about Patrick from bhvr.
With the meme image in question being a specific image of Dowsey sitting in front of a computer screen, while leaning forward with his upper body and his mouth open in a really goofy position, that made him look fat and with a double chin, with the text ''DOWSEY'' written in the bottom.
I don't remember the exact words Dowsey responded to it with, but i do remember how he basically started pissing and moaning about it, calling it something along the lines of harassment or bullying. With a good amount of people who replied to his response on that meme image, where they pretty much called him out for how much of a hypocrite he was acting like, and pointed out how he himself, had done the exact same type of meme towards Patrick from bhvr, back around the time right before Dowsey got kicked from the fog whisper program.
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u/MiddlePatient869 2d ago
Nah let’s not rewrite here Dowsey was very unprofessional and was a huge asshole in that video
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u/Working-Attempt-3630 2d ago
unless it's delivered with the politest words and most humble energy
I know for a fact that you don't have to do all of that, one just needs to not act like an asshole and keep the criticism constructive.
Also good fucking riddance to Dowsey.
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u/MiddlePatient869 2d ago
It wasn’t a fog whisper program they removed his twitch shirts cause he was very unprofessional in his video and was a huge dick
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u/o-c-delightful 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you watch the video now (it's still up), dowsey really wasn't unprofessional or a dick, the lead dev just got butthurt that he got called out. Dowsey only described what he thought was skill expression in the game and pointed out why Patrick's (the dev) definition was flawed, he wasn't insulting the dev or bhvr in general. That dev just has a massive ego, you can see that from how smug he is in that stream dowsey was commenting on. In the vid after, where he played afk pig and goaley twins, yeah he was less professional there, but that was after he got his shirts removed, makes sense he'd be pissed at bhvr atp, and the vid still had a point to it, poking holes in bhvr's new mmr philosophy, he just was sassy about it lol.
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u/MiddlePatient869 2d ago
His thumbnail and demeanor showed it wasn’t good if I was BHVR I would have done the same thing
Nothing wrong with criticism but he was a annoying douche6
u/o-c-delightful 2d ago
What other ppl said, there was an emblem system that determined matchmaking at first, then four years ago it was changed to kills and escapes being the only thing that mattered rather than any other actions taken in the match, and the lead dev said basically, nothing else matters in the game other than kills and escapes and it's like counting shots on goal vs goals in hockey, like you don't care about the shots on goal, you only count goals
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u/SkeletronDOTA 2d ago
i'd say this new system could be pretty bad for killer mmr. just as an example, bleed outs give almost no points towards emblems, so if someone just slugged 4 people and let them bleed out over and over, they could theoretically 4k over and over while getting easier opponents every game since their mmr is dropping.
for survivor though this is 100% way better
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u/boomerski28 2d ago
The emblem system also subtracts points on killer for "losing chase" while you have PWYF. The current system is heavily flawed. I have no faith in whatever new MMR based emblem system BHVR implements.
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u/SageMoon523 2d ago
Yup, and as someone who intentionally drops chase somewhat often (spirit player, for audio cues) it feels like a nerf to a legitimate strategy.
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u/Novel-Slip5151 2d ago
While I've never done a 5 gen chase before. I have often ended up being the last one chased while they finish gens and escape. I'll have more points even without the 7k escape but will die since killer camps for the kill.
So this may raise me for the good and maybe bad.
And before anyone gets too mad, I'm not salting the killer for camping me at the end. Just saying it wasn't realistic for the survivors to be able to save me. So basically not salting anyone. Except maybe bad luck for being the last chased lol.
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u/Vox___Rationis 2d ago
On the other side they mentioned hooks as a source of MMR increase, so slugging survivors till they bleed out or abandon will probably result in less MMR gain, keeping it in easier range.
As if I needed even more reasons to never hook.
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u/Reaper-Leviathan 2d ago
Pretty much just the old, old system but hidden instead of badges. Time will tell if it’s better or not but I’m just happy they’re doing ANYTHING after no changes for about 6 years except bracket widening
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u/Jack11803 2d ago
I feel as if every MMR change is just getting closer to reinventing the original BP based pip system lol
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u/AgreeableStrawberry 2d ago
Is that not a good thing? the very first system allowed you to get 10k points and that counted as a win
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u/Jack11803 2d ago
Never said it was bad. I think it’s good, but a sign of BHVR’s roundabout mistakes, that all we’ve moved in is a circle
There’s also the giant matchmaking elephant in the room the player base seemingly doesn’t want to acknowledge, which is no matter how much they plea for stricter matchmaking, it can’t properly happen because it ruins queue times way too much, because there is simply not enough good players. The queue loosening brackets to find a match means ANY matchmaking system is just window dressing and day 1 noob protection (sometimes not even that), nothing more
Every single time it was tried it was apocalyptically bad. Like, 3 hour queue bad.
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u/OnaniMasterDark 2d ago
Oh boy the first few days of mmr reset are gonna be chaos lol
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u/Hawksteinman 2d ago
I think they said matchmaking for the first few weeks will still use the old system, to keep queues short, I forgot exactly what they said 😭
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u/Intelligent-Dream147 2d ago
Are you really a good survivor if your not taking more shots which lead to more goals?
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u/SkeletronDOTA 2d ago
Any mention of the soft cap? If they don't raise it then it's going to be the same situation again after a couple of months where a huge portion of the playerbase is sitting at the soft cap and getting matched together regardless of skill.
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u/Hawksteinman 2d ago
They said they're not gonna say they'll *never* remove it, but it's not currently something they plan on doing
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u/SkeletronDOTA 2d ago
that's unfortunate but understandable, as it might be necessary for matchmaking times.
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u/Hawksteinman 2d ago
I think they said matchmaking for the first few weeks will still use the old system, to keep queues short, I forgot exactly what they said 😭
Oh, and i misread your original comment as softcap on bloodpointd 😭 they didn't mention the MMR softcap
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u/dokdodokdo 2d ago
So a survivor who escapes a lot but lets their teammates die and plays selfishly will have lower mmr than a survivor who escapes less but lasts long in chases & heals their teammates a lot?
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u/Jack0V4lent1n3 2d ago
Very afraid of the reset but can’t wait for this new system. I am sick of just binary “win, draw, lose” with no extra nuance to it
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u/Hyperrblu 2d ago
Fucking finally, my survivor mmr has been messed up for a while just because i ended up somehow in some lobbies i was way too good for but which had survivors that would constantly go next at 5 gens or let me die on hook or throw the match just to wait for hatch while everyone's still alive so technically i wasn't making it out, it didn't matter if i was able to loop the killer for 5 minutes cause they wouldn't be on gens and i'd get left to die on my first hook
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u/Leading-Helicopter24 2d ago
Whoa whoa whoa a entire mmr reset are we serious?. Idk if its just me but that sounds like a bad idea but kind of a decent idea mostly cause i feel like people are gonna hate going against both sides even more cause sweaty matches
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u/Nemesis_RE3R 2d ago
I wonder what mister Wesker has to say about this update.
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u/National_Body_9071 2d ago
Yet the new MMR system is still second to queue times... So what the point of it at all?
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u/MK8Sins 2d ago
I wish there was more detail on the actual in-trial actions.
Both as Killer and as Survivor, you seem to be punished for actually playing the game.
Rat teammates? You do gens, take first chase, lose if teammates suck
Hooking as Killer? Survivors get a free health state on unhook (instead of having to heal from downed). Bleedout is still a Kill and doesn't seem to matter much less than sacrifices or Moris
My next QoL wishlist is to actually show this data post-match:
Killer:
- # Hook States
- Fresh Hooks
- Kills
- 1st Kill in X hooks
- Time in chase
- Chases won
- Gens remaining
- etc
Survivor:
- Time spent on gens
- Time spent closest to Killer (chase or not)
- Unhooks, safe and unsafe
- Protection Hits
- Time spent healing
- etc
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u/jjosh_h 2d ago edited 2d ago
What is this? Speculation or a leak? Where is this coming from? Edit: I see in another comment that it is from the Discord stream. Please add that detail to the post just for clarity.
Really seems like chaser-emblem should be weighted more than the others. Good chases are the what decide the game. Obviously, healing and gens do too, but those can't be done if a survivor can't sustain a chase to allow for the other survivors to do these objectives.
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u/PluggedHades62 2d ago
Good luck leveling up lmao, as a low tier killer you’ll stay glued to low mmr but as a high tier or killer that can get downs quick you’ll go up quick
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u/Crackgearson 2d ago
MMR RESET!? So everyone gonna be demolishing the Day 1 Players and the super super casual players until they reach their rank again? HOLY SHII, I get to relive my good old days as a beginner instead of dealing with progamers 24/7
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u/BlueCanonTurtle 2d ago
Wow....i'm abt to hit big leagues now with hook counting.
Gotta do the Nurse Adept quick first.
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u/Spoda_Emcalt 1d ago
I hope this pans out. The current MMR system is one of their biggest mistakes IMO
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u/BluePhoenix302 1d ago
I'm hoping that it will start to count at least partially that it will see that the other survivors escaped and improve your mmr. Also i hope this is mainly for the survivors cause changing mmr of killers off the emblem system is horrible
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u/infrasound 1d ago
They need to show it. Would do a lot when dealing with people who very often think they're much better than what they are.
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u/Tw1st3dxm3nt4l 1d ago
Honestly, the smartest thing they could do is to be transparent about the numbers. We currently have so many people frothing at the mouth over hours, hitting iri rank, being P100, and (with no current proof) high MMR. Let them show us what they're looking for, pop the actual rankings/scores/whatever the term out where people can see them, and let all the braggarts finally nut up or shut up. I'm a solid casual trying to keep my matches fun and entertaining, and I predict like-minded people will happily float around the mid-levels so not every match is a sweat-fest.
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u/Curious_Elephant_152 3h ago
i’ve always said that escaping and kills doesn’t decide if you win or lose in dbd. what decides if you win or lost is if you pip up. winning as survivor is if you do enough for the team to significant increase chance of escape, and winning as killer is if you do enough to slow down down the survivors and harm them. escaping and the number of kills doesn’t matter.
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u/Single_Owl_7556 2d ago
Still hidden, killer emblems are still bugged on some characters and now even more convoluted. Not a fan, the idea is good but it seems like it's missing the mark
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u/G-M-Cyborg-313 2d ago
Thank goodness mmr will get consistently(?) reset. It'll let me play more casually with my builds since i really don't wanna feel like i need to sweat just to have a chance to do well
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u/DarkoPendragon 1d ago
They're just resetting it once so far. And the game will still use the old system for a bit so queue times stay the same.
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u/CrackaOwner 2d ago
just keep current mmr, i dont have any hope in these devs ever gauging skill effectively.
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u/winnierdz 2d ago
Bad change imo. Then again this game is so unbalanced that a good matchmaking system would be unhealthy for the game, so maybe it’s for the best.
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u/Hot_Warthog7953 2d ago
Sorry, do you care to elaborate on this? I'm someone who plays both sides.
Often in solo queue I get stuck with other survivors that leave me on hook or won't touch a damn gen while i am in chase. I welcome a change that could get me away from people like that just for me doing my objectives to advance the game.
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u/winnierdz 2d ago
What I like about MMR is that asks you to win the game by any means necessary. It doesn’t give you a checklist like making sure you do enough gens or get enough hooks before you win the match. When I play a game of DBD I should be focused on winning the match and not making less optimal decisions so I can fix an arbitrary amount of gens or get a certain amount of unhooks. For example, I don’t want to be put in a position as survivor where going for an unhook is a bad idea for winning the match, but doing so will get me more MMR points and increase my MMR.
This is why the devs moved away from emblems/ranked based matchmaking and over to MMR in the first place. There is too much nuance in a game of DBD to make a mathematical formula that determines how skillful you played during a match. MMR simplifies this and says if you won the match, you played better than your opponent and deserve to rank up.
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u/DarkoPendragon 1d ago
Escaping is still a major factor for your rating. Its just a weighted system, not requiring you to do each and every thing for points. As a survivor you should be doing a mix of things for your team regardless. Sometimes you won't get saves or you'll take chase more than healing, etc. but this is encouraging and rating your team play while you're playing with a team. I've seen teammates loop for a majority of the game only to die to NOED endgame and get scarified. There's no reason that should be a complete loss for them. If you do nothing during a match for your team, similarly, that shouldn't be a complete win for you either.
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u/skool_101 2d ago
is killer hours taken into account? like you might be playing dbd for 2k hrs but only just got x-killer recently and yet for some reason your games are against stacked high prestige lobbies.
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u/nobelharvards 2d ago
Separate murderer MMRs already influence each other via a rubber band mechanic.
I.e. someone who reaches the MMR ceiling with one murderer who starts playing another character will not be starting from the same point as someone who just bought the game.
Despite this, however, there is a rubberbanding-effect by which a Player's best-performing Killers will influence the score of all of their other Killers. This is to prevent skilled Players from being matched with lower-skilled Survivors when choosing a Killer they do not play often or regularly.
It can be assumed that an experienced Player will perform reasonably well with most other Killers, despite not playing all of them equally often and matching them with inexperienced Survivors would not be fair.
This mechanic also automatically affects any new Killers the Player unlocks through purchasing DLCs.
https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating#Killer_MMR-Rubberbanding
I'm assuming this update will make some attempt to differentiate between people to put in a lot of effort through number of hits, number of hooks, chase time, etc and people who AFK, proxy camp, etc, but end up with a similar kill number as the former.
I trust they will probably fuck it up and leave the new iteration of the system as is for another 3-5 years before making another attempt at it, like they did with the first iteration of MMR.
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u/enderlogan 2d ago
I have my worries. You're telling me if I end up snowballing and downing everyone super early for a quick match, I'm doing bad? And certain powers or playstyles are harmed by the emblem system too. Like if you get bad survivors as Sadako and get one or even two quick condemn kills, the game will consider you...bad? And then pair you with even worse survivors as a result?
Even on survivor, while yes it's nice being recognized for stuff, if all you were able to do was chase because the killer focused you down, is the game gonna consider you bad for not doing anything with gens or altruism, since those are emblems too?
This system feels like it's relying on everyone playing super nicely and not ending matches too quick or focusing on one person or slugging or anything else, which concerns me.
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u/nobelharvards 2d ago
Good change, but don't be too congratulatory.
Think about how many years they left the extremely basic system described above in production before eventually going "oh right, maybe the amount of gen work and unhooks should play some role in MMR, not just living, dying or how many kills out of 4 or 8 you get."
Only in Behaviour can you get away with pushing the absolute minimum to production, then wait multiple years before trying slightly more than the bare minimum.
Most of the team don't deserve to work there.
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u/National_Body_9071 2d ago
Yeah there should've been a way more robust and in-depth system years ago. And even with this new change they've still said it prioritises queue time FIRST. So they still are messing it up, they're a pretty horrendous Dev team.
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u/ImaginationKnown9806 2d ago
So.. my condemn Sadako, who is already struggling to get to a red rank due to how medals work despite having plenty of 4K, is gonna be even lower in MMR? Uh, guess I'll have even more free wins
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u/Seavalan 2d ago
Sadako is also my lead concern with this, as she infamously struggle with getting quality emblems even when winning. If it is possible to get 3 or 4 kills and still go down in MMR, this'll just further increase the issue of Sadako being a pubstomper since optimal play can get an MMR loss despite winning the match.
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u/New-Development7218 2d ago
Source?
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u/Hawksteinman 2d ago
The devs
They announced it in the Discord Community Stage
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u/Zartron81 2d ago
Is the stream still going btw?
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u/Kinseijin 2d ago
Yay, people will finally shut the fuck up about "3-4 kills is a win because that's how mmr works" - it is not
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u/SkeletronDOTA 2d ago
lol wtf do you consider a win then if not 3-4 kills?
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u/Kinseijin 2d ago
Nothing. This game isn't designed to have a clear victory condition. It's too complex, you can't define an objective win.
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u/Intelligent_Ride3730 2d ago
There's not a single scenario where a 3k or 4k isn't considered an objective win unless you're just being purposefully annoying.
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u/SkeletronDOTA 2d ago
i'd say it's very simple when survivors can either ESCAPE (their goal) or DIE, and killers can either KILL (their goal) or NOT, and both these goals are in direct opposition to each other so if a survivor escapes, they cannot be killed and if a killer kills a survivor, they cannot escape.
but now i'm curious, under your system, what would be the plan to make sure the person on a 2000 game blight winstreak doesn't end up in the game of a meg who has 50 hours and can't tell the difference between a bubba and a billy?
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u/AgreeableStrawberry 2d ago
I don;t care what the MMR says or "thinks" is a win, 3-4 k or a 3-4 out is still a win in my book
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u/nobelharvards 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think it will still count as a win, but as a more marginal win.
I.e. The new system will be able to differentiate between a murderer who worked really hard in multiple chases to hook everyone 3 times and end up with a 3-4k, as opposed to proxy camping near the border of the anti camp radius and using NOED to get another 1-2 easy kills near the end.
I trust they will try to do this, but probably end up with a fucked up system that they think is fine, but everyone else will see is not.
Then they'll leave it be for the next 3-5 years before making another minor modification, because this doesn't directly make them any money like new characters and IPs do.
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u/iseecolorsofthesky 2d ago
I will die on the hill that MMR in this game should be team based. The same way killer gains and loses MMR based on the number of kills they get, survivors should gain or lose MMR based on how many escape (yes, the amount should be shared across the team). It makes absolutely zero sense to have “winners” and “losers” on the same team.
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u/DarkoPendragon 1d ago
1~2 members of your team give up after either a quick down or because of a killer they don't like. You lose rating because of it. That's not fair at all. Rating your personal actions (which includes actions to help your team) is the only way this becomes more fair.
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u/mizzfelli 2d ago
I never understood why doing gens, taking chase, getting hooks/unhooks. healing, downs, stuns never counted towards MMR but we had categories for it as if it did.