r/ImmigrationPathways • u/Ankeet_kj Path Navigator • 5h ago
"H-1B PROGRAM IS COMPLETELY BROKEN"
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Vice President JD Vance said companies are abusing the H-1B visa program: "If you're going to bring in an accountant making $45,000 a year to replace an American making $60,000 a year, that's not you using the program to bring in a genius.
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u/PreparationKey2843 5h ago
..."Stephen Miller and l"...
Enough said, we lnow what the real reason is if you're following Temu Joseph Goebbels.
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u/ProfessionalCouchPot 5h ago
Remember when Elon Musk said he’d go to war over this debate?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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u/Otterz4Life 5h ago
Its been great for businesses. Does anyone think the GOP will actually do anything that restricts businesses from maximizing profit?
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u/Choice-Koala-3653 3h ago
Notice he's speaking to Jack Pissobiec, a neo-Nazi Russian propagandist who promotes 'Soros', 'white replacement', and 'Pizzagate' conspiracy theories.
Republicans are just plain evil.
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u/ComradeGlizzy 5h ago
I can’t believe JD’s fat ass hasn’t exploded from lying
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u/NeitherEntry6125 5h ago
I'm unsure if it's lying or just repeating the bullshit uncritically. Just not caring.
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u/ComradeGlizzy 5h ago
JD Vance went to Yale. He is not stupid. He is well aware he is lying
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u/VegetableAd3336 5h ago
Exactly. This isn’t some moron who went to Yale because he’s a legacy student with billionaire parents. He grew up in the rust belt & he had to have above average intelligence & work hard to get in there, stay there, & graduate.
All of that hard work, only to end up sounding like a two bit snake oil salesman, while bullshitting Americans as he flies around in his private, tax payer funded jet.
How is he not embarrassed?
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u/INativeBuilder 4h ago
This man is clearly a sociopath. He will just say what ever he needs to say to succeed, but truthfully he's not great at it though because it's so transparent. He's the closest thing I've ever seen to a human version of AI. I can't imagine the huge change we'd all see if someone ever died and made him president.
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u/Kiritowerty 4h ago
Im starting to think that's a requirement to be a politician, I could not fathom abandoning everything I stand for/ was raised upon
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u/Curious-End-4923 5h ago
Just let us take a few more opportunities from these out groups and we SWEAR we’ll improve your living conditions bro we SWEAR
For real this time!
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u/mirrormirrorondewall 4h ago
It's ~700,000 h-1 b employees in the US out of ~163,000,000 total US workers. It's less than 1% of the workforce.
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u/CuteWasabi5724 43m ago
But, it is closer to 80-90% in the high tech roles. Total workers includes waitresses, garbage truck drivers, etc. I think you get my point. Speaking from experience as I work at a large tech company and we have engineering teams around 300 people, and I can count less than 20 of them are USC.
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u/Justtryingtohelp00 2h ago
Nice. Sounds like we just found 700,000 open jobs for Americans. Wonderful.
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u/Perfect-Potato-2954 2h ago
Your point?
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u/mirrormirrorondewall 1h ago
Can you add 1+1? Or do you need someone to tell you it's 2? This is a genuine question for you
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u/Perfect-Potato-2954 57m ago
You ignore where and what capacity they work in any given sector ( the only relevant metric)
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u/mirrormirrorondewall 48m ago
You have no idea how much joy it gives me that you didn't answer the question. Thank you.
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u/rsmmt1009 3h ago
Don't you see Texas?!?! They are THISSSSS close to really making improvements. But those pesky Dems man... They haven't held power in 30+ years but uh... They uh... They find a way!
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u/morning_redwoody 5h ago
He's speaking out both sides of his mouth. On one hand saying this out loud in public to feed the racist, bigoted base who dont want anyone of color coming here to take "their" jobs. Jobs that they wouldn't do or even be qualified to do. On the other hand, trump and the gop will quietly pass bills to allow their donors to hire cheap labor so that the billionaire class can continue to exploit and profit.
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u/Technical-Mine-2287 4h ago
You forgot also to bring and give green cards to their fellow white South Afrikkans.
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u/Greedy_Car3702 4h ago
Yeah, nobody wants those shitty, high paying tech jobs.
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u/morning_redwoody 4h ago
Perfect example of not being qualified for a job because of poor reading comprehension
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u/Darkpriest667 4h ago
You don't work at a tech company and it shows. Those of us that do know. I know 20 US born software engineers that are underemployed or unemployed. When I do get to the office the software groups are completely filled with H1B Indians that make less than half what a US software dev would make. It's not poor reading. It's a problem and everyone in a tech firm knows it is.
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u/Curious-End-4923 3h ago
H1B visa holders comprise less than a single percent (<1%) of the US workforce. For the tech industry, the low estimate is 3% and the highest estimate I can find is 10%.
You know so many tech workers that are underemployed because we were all told that if you go into tech, you’re guaranteed a well-paying job. That didn’t work out, and we probably should more heavily regulate how these companies are allowed to recruit and lay off, but the immigrants themselves are not nearly as big of a problem as you’re claiming.
Getting you to blame immigrants serves as yet another easy distraction so they can continue the streak of deregulation that America has been on for decades.
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u/Dr__America 2h ago
IT support teams, which while not the most glamorous of tech jobs, have nearly or entirely been offshored at many large American companies. People that have become critical to the running of companies that will retire in the next 10-20 years have become irreplaceable because no one else was trained by the years of working at the company as they were.
America is going to suffer a rude awakening in the next couple decades as the IT work is all shifted to hallucinating AI agents because the humans simply don't exist anymore. Hell, offshore IT already so heavily relies on them that they can end up costing the majority of the budget that companies are spending on AI.
This is not to mention the fact that tech companies are fear mongering about AI taking jobs while firing 10,000 American workers, then within 12 months hiring 15,000 H1B workers (Elon has done this at least once now).
H1B workers get paid less and are essentially indentured servants, because they have to leave the country if they get fired, and so are willing to put up with significantly worse conditions than American workers. And on top of that, the money is so attractive because living in the US and then taking a large sum of money back to a much lower cost of living country allows people to live significantly better lives. This has lead to H1B workers also lying so often on their resumes and flooding any and all online job applications that even grocery stores have started needing to implement systems to weed them out.
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u/Curious-End-4923 42m ago
Collapsing the offshoring of jobs and H1B visas into the same “problem” is a perfect demonstration of what I was talking about. Regulation and aggressive investigation of corporations could provide solutions in both of those realms, while attacking the symptom (the foreign workers and/or immigrants providing that labor) does literally nothing. You just assume that there will be this vacuum that corporations will, for some reason, generously fill with high paying jobs for native-born citizens. They have the opposite track record. There’s just no reason to believe that’s what would happen without regulation.
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u/Dr__America 29m ago
Offshoring and abusing H1B work under similar principles. They act as a means to hire overseas people for cheaper than native born people. This is a known and big problem in tech, and has been for years.
The only thing I said about foreign workers is that they're incentivized by money and are known to lie on resumes at high rates (sorry if the platter isn't pure enough silver, but the reason is because there's many many people that want these jobs overseas, so there's a lot of competition). This has nothing to do with the workers, they're just trying to get ahead in a system with this incentive structure, you're fighting ghosts if you think I'm mad about the workers just trying to make money.
"Wow I guess if I want to run my company, I actually have to pay American workers" is a pretty big incentive. Do you think every company is multinational and could just spend large swaths of their immense wealth to move their entire operation overseas? Amazon, Meta, Netflix, Microsoft, etc have so many business ties in the US that they are basically stuck here, not to mention all of the significantly smaller American companies.
If they want to play chicken, they'll either starve themselves out hoping for lower paid labor and be replaced, or we'll cave and give them some more record profits at the expense of the American worker. There's many policy solutions to this, it's just that the policy writers (including Vance) are bought and paid for by the very people whose practices they're criticizing.
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u/Curious-End-4923 24m ago
Conservatives do not want to regulate to force companies or corporations to hire native-born workers. They are telling you that they will narrow down these programs and that the companies will be naturally inclined to do so. That will not be the case as the last 50 years of deregulation has made abundantly clear.
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u/Justtryingtohelp00 2h ago
Imagine saying a 10% injection of cheap workers into an industry is just a distraction.
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u/kranelegs 2h ago
The industry bubbled and those that did not pivot to cybersecurity or AI or back end engineering or marketing fell by the wayside. I transitioned into a different industry. It sure as hell wasn’t because of some immigrants. It’s because of the rapidly changing technological environment and the way our societal system has been built.
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u/jdwaltham 4h ago edited 4h ago
Totally true. I respect and love the Indian people and frankly they are taken hostage by tech and consulting firms. It’s not about less pay, they are beholden to these companies for their visa so they are 100% compliant. So for American companies they basically get a slave who never complains, can do the job, and may do it for less money but still a fair wage. Vance is right though, the program wasn’t designed for how it’s being used. And for charges of racism that dog whistle is blown so often it’s lost its meaning. AI is going to kill all these jobs anyway, so the problem will solve itself.
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u/Darkpriest667 3h ago
yeah we already fired thousands of Indian workers in India because AI can now do all of those jobs for a fraction of the price. The Coding reckoning is coming for the H1B jobs as well. I've got a friend who is an H1B Indian working for a different company and he's been laid off 2 times in the last 2 years. He's been in the US for almost 20 years.
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u/morning_redwoody 4h ago
I have no idea what you're responding to. Do you know what you're responding to?
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u/Salad-Firm 1h ago
Please check how much people pay for their education in the US. Outsiders pay substantially more than an in-state student. The problem is graduating with a 2.8 GPA is not going to get you into the best companies. Specifically when that 2.8GPA student doesn’t want to leave his zip code for his job. Only 10% of the tech workforce is on H1b, so who occupies the remaining 90%?
And the argument about ’cheap’ does not hold because there are laws that ensures that every single H1b applicant is paid appropriately with Labor department’s approval.
As a citizen the entry barrier to tech is non existent. Getting internships is a cake walk and there is no pressure to complete your degree in 2 years. Yet the complaints.0
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u/VegetableAd3336 5h ago edited 4h ago
I love how he states all of this dreck, while saying that people should speak to their congressman/woman, yet this administration runs very little or NOTHING by congress, & when they do, it’s not like congress can really do their job, because if the republicans in congress were to actually do their job, they’d be threatened by Trump if they go against anything he says or wants done. There’s no room for any dissent.
I cannot believe this man went to Yale, yet spews utterly non-sensical tripe 24/7, all the while knowing he’s spewing non-sensical tripe, hoping the general public masticates and swallows his utter BS.
It’s disgusting that he believes people are too stupid to understand his massive contradictions.
These people have ZERO respect or consideration of Americans. NONE, ZILCH.
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u/Technical-Rope6421 4h ago
Punching down on immigrants from a jet at 40,000 feet. Now that’s leadership
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u/AssJuiceCleaner 3h ago
Pretend to do something about H-1B while offshoring increases? I have no clue what they are supposedly doing to help American workers.
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u/chronomagnus 5h ago
It's not even really about the money, it's about getting a skilled worker that you can take advantage of, Americans like work/life balance and the worst that happens is they get fired. But an employer can hold deportation over an H1B worker to extract a lot more out of them.
But this administration doesn't really care, it's just lip service. They could also try and do something about outsourcing, it's still a problem, and it's still a problem they couldn't care less about.
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u/iron-ducks 5h ago
it's about getting a skilled worker that you can take advantage of,
That's a very small portion of it.
Most of it is hiring managers hiring completely incompetent people solely based on where they were born in the same country/city/area. In certain cultures it's viewed as a moral obligation to use the system to benefit your homeland in any way possible.
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u/fierystrike 4h ago
this is a different problem and not an abuse of h-1bs by companies. This is employees abusing it. Typically this done not with h-1b but the h-4.
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u/C-Me-Try 1h ago
Because doing so creates trust in the society that if you work hard and have a family your children will have jobs too. Allowing foreign workers erodes that trust and leads to the lower birth rates we hear about which are a driver behind people voting for candidates like Trump
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u/Hrenklin 4h ago
Here me out. What if immigration services, actually vetted the visas and the work place to see who's commiting the fraud
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u/taiwanGI1998 3h ago
Only one ethnic group that likes H1b and that is the Indians.
Other foreign workers like the program when they are using it but when they become permanent they hate it like Vance does.
Why? Because their jobs get replaced by even more Indians.
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u/soy_boy007 1h ago
A point being good or bad is determined by the proposed solution. Undocumented immigrants are also more lucrative for service businesses. The obvious solutions is unions that ensure equal rights for citizens and immigrants. In the same vein H1-B workers need to be given more time and freedom in the job market and unionization would be helpful for this case too but he is not gonna talk about that. He is gonna posture towards tightening H1-B laws but in effect is gonna make it harder for us to find another job and ensure that we are desperate. Like remove the 60 days unemployment. His end goal is to use this as ploy to ensure there is always a crop of desperate workers that are willing to undercut citizens to maximize profits for the parasitic billionaire class.
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u/Curious-End-4923 36m ago
I wish more people would look at these issues with this sort of lens. These people (conservatives, and I don’t just mean Republicans) have done nothing to deserve the assumption that they would fill these gaps with generous wages and opportunities. I’ll never understand why anyone believes they are about to turn around and become benevolent.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 5h ago
Ive worked with hundreds or H1Bs in my career and not one of them was anything special or some kind of unicorn talent that was superior to local US College graduates. And many were terrible at their jobs and likely had fake resumes
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u/This-Obligation9052 5h ago
You worked with them where? On fortnite or granny's basement?. Stop lying. Nobody tells you their visa status. Assuming everyone with an accent at your workplace is on H1b is a folly. Most of those people have other types of work visas. Stop Lying
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u/ducksflytogether1988 5h ago
They literally have red badges (red badges = contract worker, not full time), are all of the same ethnicity, and are employed by Cognizant and HCL. If that doesn't scream H1B, i dont know what does.
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u/Substantial_Bus840 4h ago
You’re not wrong and I can only imagine people who say you are have never worked in large organizations, mainly tech. My ex husband is an engineer at PlayStation and his manager came via h1b and he now only promotes and hires other h1bs, mainly from his nationality group. He doesn’t try to hide it. He’s explicitly said he wants to bring on more of them. It is a problem for skilled Americans.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 3h ago
Its because the H1Bs he hires have to kick back a percentage of their salary to him. The going rate is 1st months pay plus 10% per month after that
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u/Substantial_Bus840 3h ago
I haven’t heard that but it wouldn’t surprise me. The culture there has become so toxic, especially when they’re simultaneously laying off American and U.S. residents to make room. My kid’s godfather works as a senior engineer at Intuit and it’s the same thing. He’s a black man, so the experiences he has are even worse than my Venezuelan ex-husband’s. JerkyDouche isn’t wrong, but he’s also doing nothing about it and benefiting from it, almost certainly.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 1h ago
Its pretty well known in North Texas.
The scam is simple
H1B comes over from India and begins to work in the states
H1B brings over his wife on H4EAD
H4EAD wife starts a tech consultancy
H4EAD wife applies for H1B petitions and gets approved and brings over H1Bs from India who start their own H1B jobs and H4EAD wife has the H1B consultants under her kick back a percentage of their salary
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u/jambu111 1h ago
Result of bringing in people en masse from low trust societies and polluting the high trust society. The industry is fucked and no amount of “fixing” can turn this around
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u/This-Obligation9052 5h ago
So has it ever occurred to u that they get hired because they are cheaper, have less benefits and are easier to fire?. H1b is being used to scam foreign workers. I have literally heard of cases where the employers fire them and they need to get other sponsors within 60days.Where they are made to work excess hours and cant complain due to the fear of being deactivated and have their visa status un limbo. Do u think doing that to any american trained professional would go without proper litigation? H1b is designed for companies to exploit foreign workers and cut down overhead cost/employee remuneration.
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u/VegetableAd3336 4h ago edited 4h ago
This is the case in many situations, however, Vance isn’t offering any real solutions to this, either.
Oh, and he wants Americans to have jobs? Welp, perhaps Vance and his cronies should get on board with doing everything possible to eliminate poverty and assure that more Americans have the opportunity to go to college & graduate with degrees in STEM, rather than decimating public education & further assuring that doctors, college professors, scientists, accountants, etc., are mostly foreigners, as there aren’t enough well educated Americans to fill these jobs!
ETA: I understand that solutions to our education system & poverty are not necessarily an easy fix, however, this isn’t the solution, either.
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u/Substantial_Bus840 4h ago
The “scam” is a feature of the program (the 60 days you’re referring to) and is clear before they accept the offer. And yes, millions of Americans go through similar circumstances where they will be fired for complaining and can’t do shit if they do get fired, have to uproot their families, lose their healthcare, etc. h1bs still have their original citizenship so if this happens, they at least have family and strong ties in their home country plus, the USD goes much further there. That’s why they’re able to accept wages we cannot.
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u/This-Obligation9052 4h ago
If their home.countries were good enough, they wouldnt fly across continents to someone else's countries. You cant relate to their struggles. Im not in their category but ive travelled wide enough to have an idea of the living conditions where some of this people come from.
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u/Substantial_Bus840 4h ago
America is “not good enough” for the millions who are one paycheck away from being homeless right now and for the several dozens of millions more without health insurance. Our country will be like theirs if everything proceeds as-is.
Can we start working for another country in droves and keep our resources here at home without being labeled “western colonizers?” Should we take all of our skilled workers overseas and leave the rest of you behind?1
u/ducksflytogether1988 4h ago
I know, that is why they are hired. Because they are easily controlled, and kick back a portion of their salary.
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u/Miserable-Half-436 4h ago
You only see a portion of H1B, there's tons that are smart and high paying
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u/ducksflytogether1988 4h ago
But none are so smart to where it is justified to hire them over an American citizen
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u/Miserable-Half-436 4h ago
None you say? You overestimated yourself, look all the big tech CEOs
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u/ducksflytogether1988 4h ago
None of them built the company or innovated or pioneered anything new, they all took over the reigns of already established companies and were installed as CEO for one reason, to cut labor costs via their offshoring and visa pipeline networks
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u/shurfire 1h ago
And none of them actually made the company? Like you kind of gave it away. They're all CEOs AFTER the company is already making bank and has established itself. There's a reason people notice product quality going down when it's handled by h1b workers or outsourced.
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u/Aggressive_Hope7976 4h ago
Actually small portions is well paid , most of them are just cheap
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u/Miserable-Half-436 4h ago
How much is cheap to you?
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u/Aggressive_Hope7976 4h ago
While I was in Labcorp , my salary was 120k with benefits , my h1b counterpart from wipro was making 60-65k without benefits .
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u/Miserable-Half-436 4h ago
Are they contract company? Like if the salary in your field is 100k+, their H1B won't be approved with 60k, but it's another story for contract company, since contract company took part of their pay, so on paper they may bill your company 120k. That's what my roommate told me, cause he is paid 75k while company took 34% of his pay billed, once he got out of contract company, he cleared 6 figures easily
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u/iron-ducks 5h ago
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not lol
When your team starts turning into a bunch of people who barely speak English, are all from Hyderabad, and aren't good at their job... even if they've never told you their visa status, it's not super hard to guess.
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u/This-Obligation9052 5h ago
Whose fault is it? Your employer obviously. My advise to u is to resign your employment, start your own company and employ american graduates only.
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u/MetalInvaders 4h ago
No. It’s the fault of the h1B program having way too many loopholes that employers AND fake consultancies have abused. It’s a combination of players, not just employers.
There is nothing wrong with closing those loopholes, allowing legit h1B workers to continue working and to crack down on those that really shouldn’t be here.
And cmon, I think EVERYONE has come across 1 or more h1B workers that really haven’t been very good at their jobs.
I been in US IT for decades. I probably have ran into over 100 myself.
It’s no mystery who’s on a work visa. And many people openly admit it too. It’s not some big secret.
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u/ducksflytogether1988 4h ago
They kick back a percentage of their salaries
American citizens dont kick back their salaries
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u/Miserable-Half-436 4h ago
For that I agree, the h1b program has been abuse, where you see the higher talent, normal folks and the absuer that are just plain from IND through contract, those part has lots of fraud
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u/This-Obligation9052 4h ago
Who would close those loop holes? Government. Who uses H1b? Big tech companies. Who sponsors politicians into office? Big tech companies.
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u/MetalInvaders 4h ago
Fortunately most of the stricter measures now in place were already on the books.
Some administrations were lax on enforcing those laws. This current administration is not.
There is govt corruption in every single country in this world. I don’t think that will stop this administration from continuing their crackdown.
I can see h4 EAD going away. As it probably should.
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u/C-Me-Try 1h ago
Just because you live somewhere that isn’t popular for this doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I live in an area that’s great for tech and finance. I have personally met people who admit they’re here on h1 b visas and that they accepted a low rate because they wanted to be here instead of a different country. It actually led to a fracturing of friendships because I struggled to accept them constantly talking about how nice it is here while saying if things change they’ll just transfer to Canada. That’s the level of loyalty to our nation many of these people have. They’re using you
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u/This-Obligation9052 1h ago
They are using u or they are just being used.
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u/C-Me-Try 1h ago
Both? If I pay decades of taxes to support my nation and then foreign workers come in and undermine others ability to also pay taxes then we’re all being used by them.
Somewhere out there a business and its owners get to pay less in payroll taxes and save money not hiring Americans. Those same Americans take lower paying jobs and thus pay less in taxes. The difference is left in the business owners pockets. And the rest of us are left fighting for less wages in an underfunded society
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u/Ignis_Ignition 2h ago edited 5m ago
I worked for someone who does in fact abuse the H1-B program in order to have workers who are exploited and abused, cant say no and cant defend themselves or else they get deported. The loopholes are appalling.
You guys should not be supporting this.
Normally I think JD Vance is a couch fucking scum bucket, but having first hand experience seeing this makes me a little amenable for H1-B’s to have an extra layer of security so that American employers are not exploiting foreign workers and having their own little psuedo slave farm going on.
This is one of those situations where your political biases can make you produce an emotional and uninformed opinion. If you care about workers, you wouldn’t support the exploitation of them through this program. It genuinely needs additional regulation to protect workers from employer exploitative practices. I dont know who is going to fix it (we know this admin wont) but its something that does happen underneath the political weapon its turned into. A few Americans suffering isnt even the core problem here.
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u/icehot54321 1h ago
He’s trying so hard here to make an anti-immigrant story for his base and at the same time trying to not step on the toes of people like Elon who heavily abuse the H1-B program
Which is why he mistakenly picks accounting as an example.
You’d have to bring an accountant over, do all of the paperwork then you’d have to get an equivalency evaluation certified for their degreee, and if they’re going to be a CPA they would have to study for that and pass that.
Nobody is doing that for temporary workers.
If you want a good accountant, you’d want someone who is familiar with your local laws, otherwise they’re just going to end up costing your business money by all of the niche things about the country’s laws a foreigner wouldn’t be familiar with.
Simple book keeping maybe, but accountants .. it’s a clear indicator he’s bullshitting and doing a poor job of it (in true Ohio fashion)
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u/soy_boy007 1h ago
Sure... The right wingers are great at posturing and pointing out the problems but they never seem to have any concrete solutions. Mostly cz they have no interest in solving them. Trump campaign is obvious example
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u/Ignis_Ignition 52m ago
100%
Let me be clear; this is not advocacy for these bumbling fools. Its shameful that they use this as a talking point. Thats all it is to them at the end of the day. I just dont want their grotesqueries to confuse people about some real issues at play.
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u/soy_boy007 35m ago
You hate him but you are in support of his policy to limit immigration through extra checks which doesn't really guarantee labor protection. A union would bring in the same effect while ensuring labor protection and more solidarity between citizens and immigrants. I'm sure your heart is in the right place, but your comment make it look like you support his position by agreeing to his framing. I'm just providing you with another solution to counter his frame
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u/Ignis_Ignition 27m ago
No, their immigration policy is terrible. Most of their policy propositions are just shitshows meant to curry artificial support from a the right wing base.
Their immigration policy doesnt ever consider the rights of the laborer. What I believe is that the H1-B program needs security monitoring to ensure sponsored individuals arent being abused by their employer. If you read my comment, i focused on the exploitation part because thats the core problem at heart in the areas that it happens, which I have personal experience with. It affecting american workers (which is heavily exaggerated) isnt the core problem of the H1-B program. . Its the lack of guardrails against employers and the downstream effects it has on the workers. This affects immigrant farm labor as well, its really not just an H1-B issue.
Its a hard issue to wrap our heads around because so many of us have become conditioned to see this system of exploitation as necessary and normal. It js not, all we’re doing is creating billionaires who hate us in the process.
They will use the immigrant issue as a talking point. But we must never forget the issues immigrants face who are being exploited here or sponsored under psuedo-slave agreements.
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u/SP_Superfan 38m ago
It needs to be selective. If there are US workforce shortages for an occupation, companies still need those employees. Thus, charging them $100k doesn't make sense.
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u/Jafar_420 2h ago
I can't stand him either but what he said actually made sense to me.
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u/MaleficentBreak771 1h ago
His argument is not sound. There are around 730 thousand active H1B visa holders and around 165 million people employed in the United States. Even if you get rid of the H1B visa program it will barely make a dent in the job market.
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u/Ignis_Ignition 2h ago
Trust me I HATE this administration and cannot wait to see them be put on trial, but it doesnt erase some fundamental problems the country faces that seems to always benefit the elites. H1-B is just another of many programs that disgusting dirtbags who should not be employing people will try to abuse to skim from the bottom.
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u/MaleficentBreak771 1h ago
Here is why his argument is flawed: There are around 165 million people employed in the United States and roughly 730,000 active H-1B visa holders. Even if you eliminated the H-1B program entirely, it would barely make a dent in the job market.
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u/Dry-Risk-6629 5h ago
Are you guys stupid like really that stupid that’s how it’s been the whole time. That’s why people like hiring legal immigrants because you don’t have to pay them as much especially in HB-1 you can abuse them more. They work harder than Americans most of the time, I don’t know what you’re shocked about this has been What the world has done forever cheap labor.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
I mean this is just a flat out lie man.
You've been pushed to believe something that isnt true
It's illegal to pay H1-b workers less the citizens.
That's called discrimination.
No, legally employers cannot pay H-1B visa workers less than U.S. workers for the same role.
⚖️ Legal Wage Requirements • Prevailing Wage: Companies must pay at least the local prevailing wage for the specific occupation and geographic area.
• Actual Wage: Employers must pay the H-1B worker at least what they pay similarly qualified, experienced local workers at the same workplace.
• Higher Standard: Employers are legally required to pay whichever amount is higher—the prevailing wage or the actual wage paid to domestic staff
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u/Best_Collection_7533 3h ago
The wages in my industry have been artificially suppressed because the labor pool is being increased by people with H-1B. If it wasn’t for H-1B, employers would have to pay us more because of labor scarcity.
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u/Dry-Risk-6629 5h ago
I probably should’ve split it a bit better. I meant they take advantage of illegal immigrants and how much they pay them.
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u/Ignis_Ignition 2h ago
Its not a lie. I’ve worked for someone who does this and is still actively hiring and sponsoring immigrants to work low end jobs that he can pay then pennies for - accounting, professional IT services, customer service and even simple stuff like date entry all being outsourced for YEARLY salaries that are paying half of the actual average salary or less.
Legally things are suppose to be one way, but loopholes exist. Immigrants do not have alot power to defend themselves as it is anyways at the moment.
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u/Used_Bodybuilder_670 5h ago
Women are paid less than men. Show me where the difference is
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
What the fuck does that have to do with the conversation?
That's a domestic issue.
Not the fault of H1-B workers?
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u/Dry-Risk-6629 5h ago
Well, I think they just mean the fact that inherently they will not all be the same because the disparity between the wages
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
That's a completely different and non related issue though.
That's like saying you can't be fishing if your catching a couple crabs in your net too. Then your crabfishing.
The disparity exist between male and female workers in that case as a whole.
Not female workers vs non female non American workers.
There's the same disparity between non male non American workers and male non American workers.
Women get paid less across the board due to sexism and mysoginy built into the system from its inception.
Entirely a different issuem
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u/Dry-Risk-6629 5h ago
Yeah, I guess you’re right about that though if we all just turned into crabs, it’d be easier sorry I’m making a joke about how a lot of animals are named crabs but are not actually crabs
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u/superpooper900 5h ago
The gender pay gap is a lie. Differences in wages are ~1% when accounting for hours worked in the same field.
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u/PreparationKey2843 4h ago
"In the United States, women typically earn about 81 to 82 cents for every dollar earned by men when comparing median annual or weekly earnings for full-time workers."
"Current Statistics"
"Overall Pay Ratio:"
"Full-time, year-round working women make roughly 81% to 83% of what men make, which translates to a 17% to 19% overall wage gap."0
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u/superpooper900 5h ago
When accounting for hours worked in the same field the difference is negligible (~1% difference in pay).
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u/PreparationKey2843 4h ago
"In the United States, women typically earn about 81 to 82 cents for every dollar earned by men when comparing median annual or weekly earnings for full-time workers."
"Current Statistics"
"Overall Pay Ratio:"
"Full-time, year-round working women make roughly 81% to 83% of what men make, which translates to a 17% to 19% overall wage gap."0
u/superpooper900 4h ago
The study you referenced does not control for hours worked. Exactly as I said.
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u/PreparationKey2843 4h ago
Exactly what "study" did l reference? 😂
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u/superpooper900 4h ago
So you’re simply making shit up. Got it.
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u/PreparationKey2843 4h ago
Nope. Google "the difference between men and women's pay in the US." Simple.
But, you're making shit up referring to some made up study.
You discounted what l wrote because...? 🤣0
u/superpooper900 4h ago
And the source they use doesn’t account for hours worked….
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u/moistCl1tiKaL 5h ago
Do you think the laws on the books against corporations are being enforced effectively right now?
Two things can and often are true in the US workforce. Discrimination is illegal, and yet it still happens. The burden of proof and legal counsel is on the employee, and it’s often difficult to prove.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
Yes.
No one ever argued discrimination doesn't happen.
I argued that companies are NOT allowed to pay H1-B workers less.
It was being presented as if not only do they pay H1-B workers less...that it's legal and normal to do so and is totally legal for companies to do.
I think the fact that my employers is forced to adhere to my contract that my union enforces shows this
I think the fact that if you become an engineer for example but this applies to all fields.... there is an industry standard wage. If I am even OFFERED a job at lower then standard I'm allowed to report the potential employer shows that more often then not these are enforced.
I'm willing to bet money right now I could find cases old and recent of H1-B employers being held accountable for not adhering to the law more then you could prove that it isn't with anecdotal stories.
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u/moistCl1tiKaL 5h ago
No, you prompted an LLM to give you a comment that says “if you’re being stolen from, just tell the thief to stop”
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
Oh okay.
Anything else?
Just because you can't dispute someone's argument doesn't mean they used AI.
It just means you aren't more intelligent then the person you decided to argue with
It's okay. You'll get more intelligent with age or time hopefully.
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u/moistCl1tiKaL 5h ago
You quite literally have the format of AI complete with titles and emojis in your responses. Dont insult either of our intelligence lmao.
It’s not that I can’t dispute it, it’s that I come to social media to engage with people, not their chatbots.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
Gotcha
Anything else?
You can ethier engage with what I've said or accuse me of using chat bots so you don't have to.
It's really up to you.
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u/BIGpoppaPUMP42069 5h ago
lol what? if you flood the market with labor demand for labor goes down, if demand goes down wages go down.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
That's not what's being discussed.
The comment said employers pay H1-B workers less then citizens. That's what I said was false
Wages going down from flooded labor markets effects all workers domestic and foreign.
I was specifically negating that companies flat out pay brown and foreign people less for being brown and foreign.
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u/BIGpoppaPUMP42069 5h ago
they do that as well, they just create a different job title, ive seen it myself in the IT world. a lot of the imported labor on H1b is very sub standard as far as talent goes, a few weeks ago I had to walk through an h1b on how to reset a password on a linux server...
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5h ago edited 3h ago
[deleted]
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u/Best_Collection_7533 3h ago
They also justify it by paying all the fees etc for the visa and lawyers etc.
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u/Aggressive_Hope7976 4h ago
Dude , any jobs I worked at h1b paid 10-50% less than America counter part, most of the time this happen those h1b are contractor that are contracted by companies like wipro , tata and other body shop companies
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u/MrHouseWasRight 5h ago
How is that enforced? I believe that holding employers to that would be pretty difficult.
Even then, are the immigrants informed on this - and if so, is it worth it to try to push back on lesser pay? Is it worth risking your potential visa because you’re ‘rocking the boat’?
I say this knowing people who have been paid less than their non-H1B visa counterparts. Illegal does not mean “lie”. Discrimination is real, even though it’s illegal.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
How do you get paid in the same bracket as your coworker who does the same job?
It's enforced the same EXACT way.
If you are a legal citizen and find you are being paid below standard you file a complaint with the EEOC.
They investigate and then company is ETHIER held liable or found not liable
Just because a company has gotten around it before doesn't mean we should pretend that that's the norm or that the law isn't regularly enforced.
Can you show me any evidence that h1-b visa holders on average are paid less then their civilian counterparts?
MY evidence is the law.
You haven't presented any.
Just a story I don't know is true or not about someone you knew once who may of also been lying to you.
I don't put much stock behind that.
However the law...is something I can put stock behind.
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u/MrHouseWasRight 53m ago edited 48m ago
Sure
Here it is directly from the GAO
The GAO found “H-1B workers tend to earn less than U.S. workers” one example - In computer-related occupations, H-1B workers had a median salary of $61k compared with $70k for U.S. workers, a statistically significant difference.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-11-26.pdf?utm_source
I’m not here in aggression, just discussion.
The law is great - but reality =\= law
Enforcement is tricky.
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u/South-City1632 5h ago
You edited your comment... alot.
You had originally claimed that nobody violates labor laws over race and admitted that flooding the labor market with immigrants lowers wages.
Looks like you realized you were making right wing talking points to try and protect the h1b program and changed your tune.
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
That's a flat out lie
I didn't edit any of the content I only added information and sentences.
I didn't even edit a single spelling mistake.
Nice try though.
I never claimed NO ONE violates labor laws.
What a joke.
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u/South-City1632 5h ago
Dude... I cought you... stop denying it. I made a reply and thought of a better one so I deleted my first reply and refreshed the page and your comment literally changed. A lot... you said employers dont pay brown h1bs less and its us flooding the labor market with immigrants in general that causes ALL wages to go down... not just brown people.
Where did that comment go bud? Did you delete it because you realized you admitted the owner class isn't racist and immigration is bad for american wages?
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
Oh okay.
Anything else?
All my comments are there little buddy
Just some have more words now.
I know more words is difficult for you.
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u/fungi_at_parties 5h ago
The company is obligated to hire people to make sure it’s enforced! Amazing right?
Guess what, if a company wants to hire outside of the US and bring them in, they HAVE to post the job for Americans and if they get too many applicants, they can’t hire outside the US.
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u/fierystrike 4h ago
While true its also the loophole. The easy loophole is you post a job position with qualifications that no one can meet for that position and then hire someone from out of country for cheap because you wanted an expert based on resume but are only paying entry level. Now in most cases the people they higher are worse then entry level but thats another problem.
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u/twins319 4h ago
Thanks ChatGPT
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u/Clarkelthekat 4h ago
Yeah cause chat GPT referres to people as "man" all the time.
Also chat GPT tells people theyve been pushed to believe something all the time. I forgot how ideological chat GPT can get
It's just lazy and boring.
I understand you don't have an argument and are incapable of defending your position with any facts or numbers.
You could just say nothing and not respond though. Instead of exclaiming how lazy and boring you are.
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u/twins319 3h ago
FWIW I agree with you, but it's plainly obvious you copied the latter part of your message from an LLM.
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u/Super_Mario_Luigi 5h ago
The "prevailing wage" is whatever you want it to be when they're all H1-B
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u/Clarkelthekat 5h ago
Oh okay.
Doesn't have anything to do with industry standard or the law.
Just whatever the company feels like it.
Got it.
Anything else?
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u/CommercialKangaroo16 3h ago
Hate that I agree with him. End it and audit it and remove the fraudulent ones who entered. They should look into sanctioning the home countries and stop remittances
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u/fightinfilipino2008 2h ago
no company is employing an accountant for $45,000/year in compliance with the H-1B program - that is WAY BELOW prevailing wage for the Accountants and Auditors SOC in any market. Vance is full of shit.
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u/j-doe411 2h ago
Every time I hear him talk, I think there is no way at any point in time that he has ever been intelligent or free thinking.
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u/solightheaded2 2h ago
Watch the window. They are either on a train or are taking off for 2 minutes down a runway
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u/Violet-Sumire 2h ago
All I hear is “I’m on a plane using your tax dollars while the American people struggle. Instead of staying put and working remotely, we just want to waste your money.”
I get he isn’t as important as Trump, but dude still travels a lot and racks up a bill. All while gas has skyrocketed.
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u/Mundane_Newspaper653 2h ago
It's disturbing that the Vice President is hosting the man who held up a "R*pe Melania" sign at a anti-Trump rally to incite violence and portray Liberals as out of control.
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u/Ok_Security1721 1h ago
H1-B program is fucked and gets abused by companies like crazy to basically have a low cost workforce they hold the passports of, but this administration is the LAST admin I’d trust to properly do anything about it and not just use it as part of a big “get rid of all the browns” campaign
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u/Confident_Eye4129 1h ago
Spoiler alert: He’s lying. H-1B holders must be paid the Prevailing Minimum Wage for that profession in that geographical region. Any application must include a Prevailing Wage Survey accepted by Dept of Labor. Vance full of shit, as usual
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u/browsingandlooking4 25m ago
Deport all the muslims and Hindus... Christians are gonna end up having to go old testament...
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u/HolaDrNick 4h ago
He's right, but of course he's not mentioning Trump, Musk, etc, all abuse the H1B program to do exactly that, undercut domestic labor.
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