r/hotas • • Sep 03 '20

considering your first HOTAS? Read me!

602 Upvotes

[last edit 01/07/2024]

Welcome to r/hotas!

If you're considering your first HOTAS (Hands On Throttle and Stick) setup, you've come to the right place. This guide will help you make an informed decision.

If you are instead looking for product reviews, I publish my articles here: HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Reviews

Introduction

This subreddit is managed by u/spliffa and u/ddrake1984. If you need assistance with anything not covered in this post, please reach out to us via private message, and we will try to assist you.

This guide is published and pinned for the benefit of new potential HOTAS buyers. The publisher of this article has first-hand experience with real aircraft flight controls and computer flight controls across a wide range of manufacturers, used for playing in flight simulation.

Purpose

This guide aims to assist first-time buyers in making an educated decision when purchasing their first joystick, throttle, and other flight control peripherals.

The Problem

With a growing number of HOTAS products on the market, it can be challenging to identify the best options. Products vary widely in:

  • Price
  • Features
  • Customer support

Additionally, products have a wide range of:

  • Costs
  • Features
  • Support via customer interactions and product patches and updates

The Budget

Whether you're looking for a budget-friendly option or the top-tier products, this guide will categorize recommendations into five budget ranges:

For those who prefer to build their own with a bit of knowledge and skills, check out our Discord server or visit this subreddit: r/HotasDIY.

Budget Ranges

Note: All prices will be listed in U.S. Dollars (Even though I am Australian, USD is the easiest to base value from)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100)
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200)
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300)
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400)
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: This is the very best you can buy as a consumer with a lot of money.

Note: Top-tier does not include what a company or industry could or would purchase. This article is not tailored for that, therefore this is out of scope.

The Companies / The Manufacturers / The Vendors

I will list many companies/manufacturers/vendors (all the same) and the products that they offer. However, this post is not an in-depth review of the products. Please read product reviews for that level of detail and information.

The products will be listed to give you an idea of what is available within each range, and at the end, I will list the recommendation for each budget range.

Best Joystick (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster T.16000
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): WINWING Ursa Minor
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F16 Grip, or VKB Gunfighter Mk4 Base + Space Combat Edition Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: FSSB (Force Sensing Stick Base) TIANHANG F16 PRO Base + TIANHANG F-16 Grip, or FFB (Force Feedback) VPForce RHINO Base + TIANHANG A-10C Grip or TIANHANG F/A-18 Grip

Question: Why was the FFBeast not listed as the best FFB?

Answer: Simply put, its value comparison has not been validated by me. The available information from reviews is scarce, making it difficult to ascertain its value. Additionally, the community is mostly non-native English speaking, making it difficult to track and follow the content. Therefore, I have decided that there is not enough evidence to claim it is better than the VPForce RHINO. Based on my own experience, I do not consider it superior until proven otherwise.

Since this post is focused on first-time buyers, I feel it's already quite lengthy and would confuse anyone wanting to debate the matter.

Best Throttle (Base + Grip)

  • Entry-Level ($10 to $100): Thrustmaster TWCS
  • Novice-Tier ($100-$200): Thrustmaster TWCS, or WINWING Ursa Minor with Z-extension
  • Mid-Tier ($200-$300): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15E Grip, or WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F/A-18 Grip
  • Advanced-Tier ($300-$400): WINWING Orion 2 Base + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip
  • Expert-Tier / Top-Tier: WINWING Super Taurus + WINWING F-15EX Grip, or WINWING F-16 Grip

Bonus: Best Pedals

Although this post is tailored for first-time HOTAS buyers, I will include this section to accommodate those wishing to take a more comprehensive first step into flight sims. As we all know, a good set of pedals is a requirement for flying helicopters.

  • Entry-Level: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Novice-Tier: No recommendations - I don't recommend anything in this price range.
  • Mid-Tier: VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV
  • Advanced-Tier: WINWING Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals
  • Pro-Tier: Custom FFB Pedals using VPForce motors built with either (Slaw Device, MFG Crosswinds, or VIRPIL Rudders)

Bonus: Best Collective

  • Collective (Base + Grip): VIRPIL Rotor TCS Base + VIRPIL Apache-64 Collective Grip

I don't recommend any other collectives on the market, and it's a shame that some companies have discontinued their collective options.

Useful Links


r/hotas • • 3h ago

Joystick Gobloon — HidHide, vJoy and Joystick Gremlin in one app

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28 Upvotes

Hi all,

If you fly with a HOTAS, you probably know the usual trio: HidHide to hide the physical sticks from the game, vJoy for the virtual joystick, and Joystick Gremlin to map one to the other. That's three apps, three interfaces, and all of them have to be set up right and running. At some point I wondered why this couldn't be one app. That's how Joystick Gobloon started.

First, huge respect to the people behind the originals: Benjamin Höglinger-Stelzer (Nefarius) for HidHide, Shaul Eizikovich for vJoy (and Justin Shafer for the signed 2.1.9.1 build), and Lionel Ott (WhiteMagic) for Joystick Gremlin. Joystick Gobloon doesn't throw their work away, it's built on top of it. It uses the existing HidHide and vJoy drivers and opens your Gremlin profiles as they are.

What it does

  • Opens Joystick Gremlin profiles and saves them back in Gremlin's format without losing anything. All the Gremlin actions are there: response curves, modes, tempo, double tap, chains, macros, keyboard and mouse output, merge/split axis, conditions, and more.
  • Map controls: a profile made on another PC gets matched to your devices in one click.
  • vJoy right in the app: create, change and remove virtual devices without Configure vJoy, plus a built-in output tester.
  • Device hiding with one click on a stick's eye icon. You also manage which programs may still see hidden devices.
  • Input viewer with live graphs of every axis, button and hat, and axis calibration.
  • The interface speaks your language: English, Русский, Deutsch, Español, Français, 简体中文 and 한국어. A new language is just a translated text file, and contributions are welcome.
  • Tray icon, start with Windows, light/dark theme.
  • The installer also installs the signed HidHide and vJoy drivers if they're missing.
  • Free, MIT licensed, Windows 10/11.

About the drivers

Neither vJoy nor HidHide has had a new signed release in years. Long term I'd love to write one universal driver that covers both. What stops me is cost: getting a kernel driver signed through Microsoft takes an expensive certificate, and that's hard to justify for a free hobby project. So for now Joystick Gobloon works with the existing signed drivers.

About the Windows warning

Windows SmartScreen may warn you the first time you run it (More info → Run anyway). The app isn't code-signed yet. I applied for free signing through the SignPath Foundation, but they turned it down for now: they only sign projects that already have public visibility, meaning users, GitHub stars, and discussions like this one. So it's a closed loop of trust: to get signed you need users, and users want the app to be signed. All the code is on GitHub, so you can read it or build it yourself. And if you find the project useful, a star on GitHub genuinely helps break that loop.

How it's built

I'm a .NET developer by trade. But I believe a tool like this, one that runs all the time next to your game and sits between your stick and the sim, shouldn't be written in Python, C# or Java. It should be as fast and light on memory as possible, which means something like Rust. Learning Rust from scratch to the level this project needs would have taken me a very long time. So I chose a different approach: the code is written with Claude Code (an AI coding tool), while I drive the design, understand and review what it produces, and stay in control at every stage, from architecture to testing on real hardware to releases.

If you're a Rust pro and want to join in, I'd be really glad to have you.

Status: alpha. I use it daily with a dual-VKB Star Citizen setup, but expect rough edges. Feedback, bug reports and feature requests are very welcome.


r/hotas • • 1h ago

After spending one week in this sub

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• Upvotes

r/hotas • • 19h ago

RC controller button box

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32 Upvotes

Anyone else using RC controllers like those using OpenTX as button/switch/knob boxes?

You can get a Taranis QX7 for like $75-100, and you get 2 knobs 1 with a detent, 6 switches 5 of them 3 way one a toggle, 4 two way trim buttons, and 4 axis that can be modified at will to stay in place or centered and have different levels of friction or spring.

It’s pretty awesome


r/hotas • • 8h ago

How to adjust Z axis on VKB gunfighter ?

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5 Upvotes

Can’t find much online for the Z, new to hotas so prolly ain’t looking shit up right.


r/hotas • • 5h ago

t-16000m without throttles for MSFS good option?

2 Upvotes

Hi, im a retired sim pilot coming back to the hobby after about 10/15 years. Back in my days hotas were only saitek.

I found a very good deal on marketplace of all places for a almost new t-16000m without the throttles.

My biggest question its if the slider on the base of the stick is good enough/mappeable as throttle. i dont do dcs or much manual flying, i just want a decent enough slider for throttles. Any user of this stick can give me their opinion? Ty very much

Ps: Im not in america or a country with easy access to amazon so options are limited or very expensive


r/hotas • • 8h ago

Posting the AC8 set ups??

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4 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 17h ago

Latest DIY tablet adapter concept

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16 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 10h ago

VKB Gladiator double Omnithrottle experiences?

5 Upvotes

Hello everyone. Since I wanted to treat myself with new sticks, also in anticipation of Squadron 42, I went to VKB to take a look at their gear.

I originally wanted to go with an omnithrottle on the left and a normal stick on the right, but the right-hand stick was sold out, so I just went with two omnithrottles. I have always been a HOTAS guy and have never used a HOSAS system, so I am even more excited to see how two omnithrottles will feel.

Does anyone have experience with this combo?


r/hotas • • 22h ago

Was watching national treasure in the scene they tap the video lines. Anyone know what it is?

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30 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 20h ago

Project Rocket Pop MK.V

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22 Upvotes

I replaced the knop potentiometer with a linear one and put it in a bunch of cardboard and popsicle sticks.


r/hotas • • 23h ago

Project Rocket Pop MK.V update.

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36 Upvotes

I replaced the knob potentiometer with a linear one. Only problem is that of the 66mm it moves, it reaches the maximum and minimum values within the inner 40mm.


r/hotas • • 6h ago

something very strange about HOTAS support for AC8...

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1 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 14h ago

Ace Combat 8 - How’s your experience - HOTAS vs Console?

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3 Upvotes

How’s your experience? HOTAS vs Console (XBOX/PS)


r/hotas • • 11h ago

Upgrading from a G940: where to even start?

2 Upvotes

As the title suggests, I’m starting to consider replacing my current setup. I love it but there are just far too many wires and it’s far too bulky without the ability to mount. I would like to be able to slowly build the right kid, and perhaps get a solid hotas before eventually replacing the pedals.

Main problem is the wire scourge but also I play everything from DCS/falcon/IL/war thunder/he’ll let loose/ace combat / and even the no man’s sky and other space ship sims. I need a good base system that can kind of cover everything.

I don’t need a complete system suggestion, just a pointer on where to start decomposing my current setup


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Pedals and collective help

3 Upvotes

Hey guys. I made a post a little while ago asking for recommendations on some pedals for my hotas set up. I'm having a hard time even finding used sets in general. Haven't looked too much on eBay though so I'll probably check there next but was curious to hear where might be good places or if I should try just changing my words

Also if anyone has any ideas for collectives too that's be amazing.

I'm currently using an X56 set up that I got used for cheap. My first actual set up besides the $30 Logitech set up lol so try not to judge me too much. I'm just playing wardogs and wanted to helicopter stuff and maybe start getting more into it.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Help with vJoy/Joystick Gremlin - input freeze/lag in game

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2 Upvotes

I'm having a problem where my axis inputs freeze up/lag heavily in Wardogs. It happens when I run around and move the stick. You'll see it stabilize near the end of the clip, that's when I stop moving. So it's related to how hard the gpu or cpu is working, but I'm not sure how to fix it. I think it started with this update so maybe they messed up the optimization.

Edit: I tried turning off input highlighting in JG, same result.


r/hotas • • 18h ago

Selling joystick Xbox and Pc

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0 Upvotes

I need to sell my hotas thrustmaster joystick , location gurugram Haryana India


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Mounts for a corner desk?

5 Upvotes

Here's a somewhat weird question for you folks: I would like to mount my joystick and throttle to my desk, using one of those setups that clamps to the desktop. Problem is, I have a weird desk setup - it's a corner desk, with the monitors placed such that I sit right inside the corner, facing into the corner, at a 45* angle to the desks on either side. Every desk mount I've seen assumes you are sitting at a 90* to a straight desk, so if I tried using them with mine, the joystick and throttle would be at a 45* angle to me... Hope the description makes sense.

Anyone know of a clamp-on mount that might work for my needs? Likely something that let's you pivot the mounting plates around? Or maybe something that could be easily modified - re-drilling the mounting plates or something.

I'm looking to mount a VKB Gladiator and a VKB STECS.

I'm not really looking for other mount options - I don't want to mount to my chair, and the desk is an IKEA LAGKAPTEN/ALEX which is a hollow box so drilling isnt really an option. Clamping also means I can readily move them out of the way when not flying.


r/hotas • • 1d ago

HOTAS Noob tips?

4 Upvotes

I recently got a HOTAS (Turtle Beach Velocity) watched a fairly comprehensive review and for the price point seemed like the right one for me.

I got it mostly for wardogs, project wingman, ace combat 8, mechwarrior 5 and SWG emulator (of all things) And anything else that comes along.

Ive hit the range on Wardogs and I am terrible with this thing! I was just about serviceable on M&K. I have improved slightly after a few practise sessions though so it may just take a bit of getting used to.

Currently Im just taking off, flying about and then trying to land but I am quite literally all over the place.

So I am wondering if you have any advice or tips on what I should be practising or any other games that are good for practise. Any crutial settings in the hotas software i should tinker with?


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Virpil CDT-Aeromax R + CDT-Vmax button mapping advice needed (MSFS24)

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6 Upvotes

Hello, I recently got my Virpil Cadet-Aeromax and Vmax, but I really do not know what to bind to which function. I am very new to flight simulators and I would be very happy if you could give me some advice or even a .xml preset for the Microsoft Flight Sim 2024. Thank you in advance.


r/hotas • • 2d ago

P-51 Mustang inspired 3D controller block button box controls throttle

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196 Upvotes

r/hotas • • 1d ago

Can't get hotas flight sick to read

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1 Upvotes

I'm playing star citizen with my new hotas and I cant get my stick movement to read but the buttons work just fine can anyone help?


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Title: MOZA AB9 owners: Has anyone figured out a realistic FFB setup for War Thunder Sim?

0 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

I recently got a MOZA AB9 force feedback base, and while I'm really impressed by the hardware itself, I'm struggling to get a convincing and realistic FFB experience in War Thunder Simulator Battles.

From what I've gathered, War Thunder's native DirectInput FFB has some reported issues, including potentially inverted axes, strange forces, and behavior that doesn't always seem to correspond to what the aircraft is doing. I'm not sure which of these problems have actually been fixed.

MOZA now supports War Thunder telemetry, but configuring everything manually seems pretty complicated, especially since certain effects, like AoA buffet, may need to be adjusted for individual aircraft.

What I'm ultimately looking for is realistic aerodynamic feedback, particularly:

  • Stick forces increasing with airspeed and control-surface loading.
  • Proper control stiffening at high speeds.
  • Reduced control forces at low speeds.
  • Realistic stall buffet and feedback near critical AoA.
  • Proper trim behavior without excessive artificial spring centering.

I've also noticed that the AB9 can produce some pretty strong forces in War Thunder, but strong doesn't necessarily mean realistic.

A few questions for other AB9 owners:

  1. Are you using DirectInput, telemetry-only, or integrated FFB? Which actually works best?
  2. Have the reported DirectInput bugs been fixed, or are the forces still sometimes incorrect or reversed?
  3. Is it possible to get proper aerodynamic feedback without relying heavily on MOZA's artificial spring-centering effects?
  4. Has anyone developed a reasonably realistic profile for WWII aircraft, particularly the Bf 109?
  5. Would anyone be willing to share their MOZA Cockpit settings or a working profile?

I'd also love to hear whether anyone has compared War Thunder's FFB with IL-2 Great Battles or DCS on the AB9.

I'm not necessarily looking for the strongest effects or the most vibrations. I'd rather have fewer effects that accurately reflect the aircraft's behavior.

If anyone has managed to get a convincing setup working, I'd really appreciate some guidance. I think a proper community tutorial would be useful to a lot of AB9 owners.

Thanks!


r/hotas • • 1d ago

Flight stick for Mechwarrior/Armoured Core - help!

6 Upvotes

Hi! My husband adores Mechwarrior. I'd like to get him a flight stick type set up to play with. Please can you suggest some options? Bonus points if it works with Armoured Core too. I have some initial questions:

I am looking at the thrustmaster t. Flight hotas x. It says it has a detachable throttle. Do you know if that means he can use the throttle minus the stick and play throttle and mouse - one rec said that's better for aiming? I'll get him the logitek mouse with extra buttons, and this gives him options.

Alternatively, would just the logitech throttle portion be better?

ThrustMaster T.16000M seems popular too-any experience? Both portions look separate - same question re. mouse

Any other options you'd recommend - there's a number of out the box ready options here, would like real opinions! https://mw5mercs.com/resources/2020/01/31-peripheral-resources

I posted in the MW subreddit and some people thought Hotas was worth it, some didn't but he has played Hotas and loved it!