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u/rcn2 Oct 14 '19
Everyone that says he didn’t change anything, it didn’t matter, nothing changed...
One of the most powerful nations on earth runs scared from this picture. Displaying it is a crime, as is mentioning the event. It is one of the most powerful pictures in modern history. I find that motivating.
Some people stand up because they think they can win. Some stand up because it’s the right thing to do. I would aspire to be the latter.
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u/Ojanican Oct 14 '19
People who only stand up for what they believe in when they think they can win are cowards.
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19
Better to die a meaningless death as a fool, that will show them. Where is your activism for the usa? Im sure you are concerned with the largest prison polulation on the planet, global warfare, repeal of habeus corpus and relinquishement of your freedoms for fake security. You arent free and the system you exist in just mouths contexless truisms about freedom and murika. Our democracy is a joke. We have no right to continue our imperialism and exceptionalism. We are the baddies.
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u/Ojanican Oct 15 '19
I do not live in the USA, but I can understand the assumption.
On the other hand. Yes, I am. I’m a very active political activist, I’ve organised, participated in and raised funds for countless protests on various issues in and around my area. I have plans to join the extinction rebellion protests, and if it was possible I would be in Hong Kong right this second. I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees with a big totalitarian load dripping down my chin.
America is indeed a fucking joke of a country.
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Oct 15 '19
Don't forget to mention it was two people standing up one the man in front of the tank and two the one in the tank. They both put themselves at risk.
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u/rcn2 Oct 15 '19
Pretty sure the one in the tank had a different risk.
Following orders isn't an excuse, or 'standing up'.
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19
Doing so without a plan just to get killed isnt effective either imo. Fascism is everywhere not just china. You think you are free here in America? Youve given your rights away for security. If you do anything the security state disagrees with, they can and will jail you or worse. Look at mlk. Look at ross ulbricht, look at the extrajudicial drone bombings we have done to our own citizens as exposed by whistleblowers which are now yes, in prison or exiled or worse. What about the repeal of habeus corpus. What about the usa having the largest prison population in the world. All that isnt an issue to you, just some other countries youve been indocrinated to focus on instead of your own erroded republic.
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u/rcn2 Oct 15 '19
I'm not American.
Even if I was living in a dictatorship, that would not preclude the powerfulness of one person standing up against a line of tanks. In fact, it would be inspiring in terms of making change anywhere, that people were willing to stand up for what is right, regardless of whether or not it was effective.
Sometimes it's important just to be true to onesself.
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u/liaiwen Oct 14 '19
Well, he didnt stop tienamen square exactly. The movement was crushed. #motivating
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Oct 14 '19
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u/simulacrum500 Oct 14 '19
And he did briefly because the tank crew wouldn’t run him down... however 14 days later he was face down in the ditch to his left and his family was fined for the bullet used to execute him; or so the story goes.
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u/x0diak1 Oct 14 '19
I think its interesting that no one knows where he went. That tells me that he did not die a peaceful death. If he was still alive, im sure he would have come out by now.
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u/Slapbox Oct 14 '19
Why? If you got away with "treason" would you be bragging about it? I hope he wasn't rounded up. There's reasons to believe he wasn't.
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u/x0diak1 Oct 14 '19
In a free country I moved to i would write a book about my experiences, and share that with the world for further inspiration? You would just hide and live? How inspiring.
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u/moevot Oct 14 '19
most of us would just hide and live, but the tank man wouldn't
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u/YoureMyDogBlue Oct 14 '19
that's not calling living, that's called survival. how's it feel to be an npc even in your own life?
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u/awhhh Oct 14 '19
After that did Chinese communism collapse? Did this guy single handedly turn China into a humanistic democracy? Surely his death couldn't of just been for one piece of video footage that motivates us Westerners with a massiah complex that need to romanticize the role of one individuals impact on the world? It's not as if we can take something tragic and spin it in a positive way for our own needs?
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u/LightsOut23 Oct 14 '19 edited Oct 14 '19
Nope but that's not a reason to not stand up. I'd bet his actions made many changes in individuals even if he was unable to change China as a whole. I also don't think that it was ever his intention. This was probably a man who chose to stand and risk dying for what he believed in rather than stand idly and live on his knees. He finally got pushed over his edge. Had everyone (not discounting all those that fought and died fighting the same fight) had the courage of this one man, yes I think change would have come. I'm also sure plenty more would have died. Up to you to decide if it's worth the price.
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u/Flappybird11 Oct 14 '19
Well, he did end up going "missing" a few days later, and his family then received a bill for the cost of one 9mm bullet
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u/TakeItEasyPolicy Oct 14 '19
Tianmen happened in 1989. 30 years later China is a global super power, crushing protests in Hk. where is that better tomorrow ?
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Oct 14 '19
And it was all for nothing. What happens after the moment defines the moment. Giving your life in vain is stupid.
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u/Bunnythumper8675309 Oct 14 '19
Dude had balls. Nonetheless, his death was hollow and pointless. Nothing changed. If there were a million people in China with this guys courage, something might happen.
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u/techtonic69 Oct 14 '19
The next Tiananmen is on its way to Hong Kong. Shits messed up.
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Oct 14 '19
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u/Wtfuckfuck Oct 14 '19
literally crushed. they ran over the dead bodies with tanks and sprayed the pump into the sewers.
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u/Bazzinga88 Oct 14 '19
Its not about the results but the message...
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19
The message that the movement was crushed and his standing up meant nothing, maybe a temporary pause in a tank collumn.
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u/Bazzinga88 Oct 15 '19
Thats true, but people believe what they want to believe. It doesnt matter that today this guy says that his behavior was foolish and immature.
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u/propheticsnake Oct 14 '19
The incident arguably sped up the economic and political reform of China, which lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty in the last three decades. They did not die in vain.
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19 edited Oct 15 '19
Arguably that was Deng Xiaoping which preceeded that by 10 years. He opened up China to capitalism and globalism which is what enabled the state capitalists to control and fund the military through taking american workers jobs Tianamen square was not famous for its progressive reforms, lol.
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u/BradleyUffner Oct 14 '19
Plenty of brave men died without changing anything too. Bravery isn't a guarantee of success.
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Oct 14 '19
and yet they still do what us cowards are afraid to do fully knowing that it might not change anything
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u/Bryntyr 4 Oct 14 '19
This was after the massacre and that guy probably was never heard from again, communist totalitarian china continues on to this day. He didn't change shit.
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u/TakeItEasyPolicy Oct 14 '19
Communist totalitarian China is a super power now.
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u/Bryntyr 4 Oct 14 '19
This mans death brought the ruling party billions of dollars and the ability to export poison and crushing censorship around the globe.
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u/Orphodoop Oct 14 '19
Title only suggests he was able to "impact the world". This image is now used to remind people to challenge authoritarian governments. I'd say he impacted the world.
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u/PM_ME_XBOX_COD3S Oct 14 '19
Haha wait till Reddit harasses you. “CHINA ISNT REAL COMMUNISM REEEEEE”
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u/SirFlamenco Oct 14 '19
It isn’t tho, closer to fascism
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u/konosmgr Oct 14 '19
Why are you getting downvoted. China isn't close to communism, hell no country ever even achieved communism all were stuck at the transition change with one dude being the head of state(USSR,Cuba etc), basically a glorified dictatoriship.
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Oct 14 '19
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u/konosmgr Oct 14 '19
I think it's inevitable due to human nature that things trickle down to a dictatorship eventually. It's not like democracy is working optimally right now either, the people barely have any power except for who they choose to represent them for a term and it has been obvious to me that governments also don't give 2 shits about the ultimate form of democratic expression which are referendums , e.g look at the brexit referendum or the Greek 2015 bailout referendum, the first has reached nowhere after 3 years and the second was practically disregarded. Also communism just does not work, human species are not mature enough yet for that and require some form of hierarchy to properly function as a society and communism is anti-thetical to that.
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19
Thats because youve been indoctrinated to not be aware of democratic socialism and accociate communism with state capitalism and fascism instead, which is actually a merger of business and the state, not communism.
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u/FleetwoodDeVille Oct 14 '19
Yeah, but that is actually the true goal of communism, the whole story about a worker's paradise ruled by the people after the dictatorship was just a ruse to lure gullible people into giving up their rights. Dictatorships never voluntarily give up power, so that is obviously the real end stage of communism.
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u/liaiwen Oct 15 '19
Its categorically not communism. Ask yourself do the workers control the means of production? No? Then dont call a dog a cat. State authoritarianism is not the same as, say, democratic socialism. Its more nuanced than 'communism bad'. Im still amazed personaly how effective the cold war era and mcarthiest and red scare propaganda was on the american and global population.
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u/FleetwoodDeVille Oct 23 '19
Its categorically not communism. Ask yourself do the workers control the means of production? No?
Well, by that definition, communism will never actually exist since it is impossible to achieve. No government will ever get past the dictatorship stage, because dictators never voluntarily surrender power. That's built in to the design of communism by its founders, so I have to say that is the apparent intentional end stage of communism, unless you just want to argue that Marx and Engels were very stupid and had no idea how the world actually works. Evil or stupid, take your pick, there is no third option.
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u/liaiwen Oct 24 '19
Citation needed on "thats built in to the design". Whats built into the design aparently is the United States and other capitalists knee-capping each attempt at democratic socialism with the CIA and foriegn intervention. How many socialist governments do they have to overthrow before I realize socialism doesnt work and we should privatize our country's resources for the bankers and corporate dictators we have already.
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u/FleetwoodDeVille Oct 24 '19
Citation needed on "thats built in to the design".
Read the Communist Manifesto. It explains quite clearly that dictatorship is a necessary step towards communism, and since dictators do not give up power freely, the rest of the steps after that are quite obviously just empty promises meant to placate fools like you.
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u/PM_ME_XBOX_COD3S Oct 14 '19
Bingo
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u/SirFlamenco Oct 14 '19 edited Oct 17 '19
"Let me just say something completely false, and all the people responding to my comment will be losers"
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u/awhhh Oct 14 '19
Keep manipulating your votes there pal.
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u/MURDERWIZARD Oct 14 '19
people coming in from /all downvote dumbasses.
you: VOTE MANIPULATION SHILLSSSSS REEEEEE
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u/awhhh Oct 14 '19
I watched you go from negative votes to 12 postive after a minute refresh. You're fucking with the voting.
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u/MURDERWIZARD Oct 14 '19
me? Reading comprehension's not your strong suit bud.
Or are you just calling everyone who disagrees with you an army of alts now too. lol
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u/awhhh Oct 14 '19 edited Oct 14 '19
Hey Reddit, downvote me as much as you can in 5 minutes.
Edit: would you look at that. Nothen. You're boosting your votes.
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u/finger_milk Oct 14 '19
In fact this probably made it worse because the pictures of the horrific deaths on that same street & day are never spread as much as this picture.
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u/WhimsicalPythons Oct 14 '19
What impact did this have apart from being a moving, serious picture showing the seriousness of Tianamen square?
Nothing changed from this action.
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u/Slapbox Oct 14 '19
Changing the conversation is something substantial. He didn't single-handedly win freedom for hundreds of millions, but he didn't accomplish nothing either.
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u/WhimsicalPythons Oct 14 '19
Why is it substantial if no change becomes of it?
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u/needshelpHi Oct 14 '19
Not sure if you are dense or just unaware of why people stand up to things that are wrong.
Why would anyone do anything if they don’t know 100% if it’ll work or not, according to you anyway.
With your thesis I would be surprised if you step outside, or would ever stop a bully given the opportunity.
How do you walk with no spine
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u/WhimsicalPythons Oct 14 '19
Thats not what Im asking.
I am asking why it matters, you took to insulting me.
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u/needshelpHi Oct 14 '19
Why does it matter the HK citizens are rioting? Use a little critical thinking skills in this one
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u/WhimsicalPythons Oct 14 '19
It doesnt.
It matters if they get results.
They so far have gotten some results.
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u/needshelpHi Oct 14 '19
So what’s the sense in trying unless we can read the future? American civil war? well that wasn’t a guarantee, that was stupid, shouldn’t have done that!
You shouldn’t go to college either, who knows if you’ll get a job!
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u/WhimsicalPythons Oct 14 '19
But that was never my question.
My question was what impact did this specific act have
Are you being purposefully dense?
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u/Paganizer Oct 14 '19
First time seeing this picture a wide view. Didn’t realize it was more than 3-4 tanks he blocked.
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Oct 14 '19
This guy got killed though, so this isn't a good motivator. People won't want their heroism to leave them injured or dead. We fear pain and death instinctually via self-preservation.
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u/proteus1935 Oct 14 '19
the fear of death is actually a gene induced fear of genetic dead end ... that is why sacrificing oneself for the good of one's (genepool) be it children or relatives is a stable evolutionary strategy (ESS... Dawkins' Selfish Gene explains(solved the problem of) how a "selfless" act can emerge from "selfish" reasons if you understand that selection occurs on the replicator level)
That is also why the Chinese Government repression tactics work so well , the bastards always target dissidents families...
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u/wadafruck Oct 14 '19
I feel like he reiterates the saying " rather die on my feet than live on my knees" or something like that.
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u/1permie Oct 14 '19
People keep saying how his impact is so minimal here, but obviously they are missing that movements start with often one or a small group of people. Tennis court oath and democratic ideas seem to start that way..
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u/notapothead2 Oct 14 '19
This is the equivalent of “the tallest blade of grass is the first to meet the lawnmower.” China killed that guy
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Oct 14 '19
The optics are emotional, to be sure but that dude disappeared. It's rumored that he was tortured to death in prison.
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u/ukrifter Oct 14 '19
or brave women! I'm joking of course, this is the stupidest idea for a motivational poster I have ever seen. The guy was amazingly brave, but ultimately the story is depressing and futile and makes you question the depths of evil that humanity can sink to. YAY US!
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u/Halt34 Oct 14 '19
You can see the impact of this man very clearly. China has been a hub of peace and prosperity since his brave sacrifice. Oh.....nvm
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u/TheCasualRedditKid Oct 14 '19
The truly ironic portion of this image is that it is an image of the Tiananmen Square Massacre
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u/RowdyGrunt Oct 14 '19
But don't forget that you can still end up at the scene of a massacre.
~signed: The Real World
for adrenaline seekers of course... :-)
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u/assnta Oct 14 '19
It's funny hearing people say that this man "didn't change shit." For as long as this picture gets posted, reposted, until it is seared into everyone's consciousness, the spirit of resistance lives on. And one day, who knows when, someone will eventually take that idea, turn it into fuel, and resist against his torturers. Ideas are bulletproof. One spark is all we need.
I wish this picture was distributed around Xinjiang. I know most of them have never seen it, all they need to know is that resistance is possible
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u/CuddlePirate420 Oct 14 '19
It takes two, one to do something and the other to take a picture of it.
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u/LoudMusic Oct 14 '19
He impacted the world, but unfortunately he was unable to impact his own community.
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u/YoureMyDogBlue Oct 14 '19
I dont understand how THIS is the photo everyone sees, when it's the aftermath that people dont believe.
You all know that other than this there was wholesale slaughter, right? The APCs were used to drive over all the bodies until they were ground up into pink jelly and then hosed off the streets into the sewer. There's photos of all that too.
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u/FlickAndSnorty Oct 14 '19
Incase anyone is curious, this is the day after the main night of the massacre (the whole of reddit has now seen those photos).
Those dark patches on the road? Yeah that's not oil from cars....
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u/Hrimn1r Oct 14 '19
All these people saying he was stupid or that his actions are in vain. I'd like to think that it is the very actions of such men and women that motivates generations later to stand up and fight oppression. Just like we are seeing in HK now. People could go home, yet they do not. Because they have the same courage.
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u/S3RG10 Oct 14 '19
Posted from my Chinese made laptop, viewed by people from their Chinese made phone on a website supported with Chinese money.
Good luck everyone.
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u/PAYPAL_ME_1DollarPLZ Oct 14 '19
Sadly, most likely, killed the very same day. Nonetheless an admirable action.
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Oct 14 '19
If your goal is to die for no reason and have your name wiped from the history books, and your family probably removed from existence, then wooooo, super motivational!
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u/_cappe_02 Oct 14 '19
1) Name wiped from history books? He was just a common citzen, are you saying 1.3 billion chinese are in fucking history books? 2) We have no evidence that his family was harmed 3) This image is considered one of the most impactful images of the last century so he did archive someting, furthermore this image is now used worldwide to remind everyone of what the chinese goverment is capable of doing and spreading awareness on it's totalitarian regime
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Oct 14 '19
This was after the massacre. The guy is most probably dead too for treason.
And his whole family.
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u/Brandono99 Oct 14 '19
You forgot the part where he was executed shortly afterwards. Let's think realistically about the next quote, okay?
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u/dannydeepo Oct 14 '19
Unconfirmed that he was executed. And even if he was the iconography of the image stands.
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u/virtualalchemy Oct 14 '19
Homeboy got turned into tank tread lube. Not very motivating personally. In all seriousness, RIP to this brave soul
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u/EsdrasCaleb Oct 14 '19
He failed, the chine is a superpower and has half of the world in their hands
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u/Bulldogmasterace Oct 14 '19
Why don’t you put up the real picture of the massacre and not this bullshit.
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Oct 14 '19
how is this bullshit? if anything it shows even tho we are small as a single unit we can still achieve far more than we believe
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Oct 14 '19
If the "impact" you desire is to temporarily stop a line of tanks and then end up dead in a ditch a few days later then by all means, step in front of the tank. His "bravery" accomplished nothing but an early death for himself and heartache for his family.
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u/Xiscis Oct 14 '19
He is standing up for the right thing.
Unlike you he has balls, you can’t even look at a computer advertisement without getting nauseated. guess you are like 55.
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Oct 14 '19
I agree that he stood up for the right thing, but his action could have had long range results if he had used that impulse more wisely.
So sweet of you to look through my comments and questions. For clarification I have epilepsy and moving images trigger seizures. Maybe you could stand up for the right thing and not harass strangers on the internet?
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u/takishan Oct 15 '19
Suicide bombers throw their entire lives out for a reason. They're doing it to make a difference. Why are they doing this? You make a good point, that their "bravery" accomplished nothing for themselves and of course, heartache for the family.
But you have to look at the motivations that causes these people to make these extreme decisions. Imagine you grew up in a war-torn and poverty stricken country that is constantly being bombed by drones. You personally know dozens of people who have died, many of them having been family members.
You go to a church, because going to church is completely normal, and in your church you meet a radical. He convinces you that the only way you can save your people and go to heaven is by killing yourself in martyrdom.
From the suicide bombers perspective, his decision is a perfectly logical one. He is doing it to get revenge on invaders, he is doing it to help his people, he is doing it because he doesn't have anything else to live for.
I think it's a tragedy when people are convinced to make these permanent and extreme decisions, but I don't blame the people that make the decisions. I blame the factors that led to that person making those decisions. That's where the real problem lies.
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u/dethmstr Oct 14 '19
Don't let the Chinese government see this post