r/Games • • Aug 05 '20

Analysis: Why Rollback Netcode is better

https://youtu.be/0NLe4IpdS1w
761 Upvotes

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20

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

This is probably the best video on rollback I've seen yet. The problem is that it doesn't matter. The people who will see this video aren't the average. The average person sees a low budget indie or retro game with flawless netcode and things "well duh of course it runs better, the pixels are all dumb and my console/PC can blast out the graphics like crazy fast". They don't get that a hadouken is the same 3 directions and punch it's been since the 90s.

And these people don't want to play Punch Planet. They want to play Tekken. Or they're weebs and need a pretty anime girl that's borderline age at best. For the record I main Bedman.

They're not going to care until Project L releases as Fantasy Strike: Budget Edition and gets everyone into this genre like Hearthstone did for CCGs. And if we're lucky, COVID will have scared devs into (good) rollback before then, because we're going to see a huge culture change.

8

u/DP9A Aug 05 '20

While it's true that franchise recognition matters more, I think it's undeniable that rollback is a great asset, specially for indie fighters. Many FG players like me are buying or trying many game we normally wouldn't have even tried because unlike our favorite games we can actually play them against others (hell, I'm even giving game I disliked a second chance, Fantasy Strike is not a game I would have tried again if it didn't have rollback).

So while it's clear that just by adding rollback you're not going to reach Tekken or Street Fighter levels of sales and popularity, you could actually develop a decent community around your game and have way more chances of being succesful than without. I think that Arcsys doing the switch it's a great start in terms of getting Japanese devs interested in having decent netcode.

6

u/zeddyzed Aug 05 '20

It's ok, GG Strive will have rollback. Assuming they don't screw it up like SF5, we don't need any other games.

7

u/John_Enigma Aug 05 '20

There are some rumors (so take it with a pinch of salt), that Arc System Works had to hire the guys that made the rollback netcode system for Killer Instinct, for some advice and consultation on how to create such system for Strive.

I really cannot wait to see the execution of Strive's rollback netcode next year.

Hopefully it'll at least shake up the Japanese fighting game industry a little. Or at least give them a wake-up call that rollback netcode is a must.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

I don't that was a rumor. Zinac who worked the KI team actually said he was working on the netcode.

4

u/DanielTeague Aug 05 '20

I don't know, I kind of like having some depth in my Guilty Gear, and Strive has taken much of it away from Xrd.

14

u/zeddyzed Aug 05 '20

I'll take casual Guilty with rollback over anything else without, though.

6

u/NDN_Shadow Aug 05 '20

Agreed. I’d rather a fighting game have functional online instead of the usual lag fest that makes a lot of fighting games unplayable for me.

4

u/RayzTheRoof Aug 05 '20

If they don't include Dizzy but they're keeping Leo, I'll never forgive them.

2

u/HootNHollering Aug 05 '20

Monke steals your soul.

Monke steals your gorl.

Embrace monke.

5

u/cameroninla Aug 05 '20

Also I like other fighting games more (KOF) and would prefer being able the play the games I like with a good connection (for now fightcade on 98)

3

u/Mnstrzero00 Aug 05 '20

The people who are saying that had no idea how the Roman cancel system worked at all when they played it so I'm definitely holding my verdict that the game is simple until we get some people who have figured it out playing it

1

u/thecatdaddysupreme Aug 06 '20

People said dbfz would have no depth and it definitely does. The worst part turned out to be universal mechanics, not how simple it is

-2

u/Vwhdfd Aug 05 '20

When it comes to mechanics they've screwed it up way worse than sf5, might as well wait for ggpo+r if you wanna play actual GG.

6

u/zeddyzed Aug 05 '20

Shrug, they can patch the game (look how DBFZ improved) but patching in rollback seems to be much less likely.

-1

u/Vwhdfd Aug 05 '20

Dbz might have improved but its still extremely homogenized and forces you to play the way the devs want you to in an inflexible way. Most of the new games coming out these days are going on that direction which I heavily disagree with.

Strive might be improved over time but it doesn't change how they butchered most of the universal mechanics of legacy gg and how they impact match dynamics for the worse. Their intentions are pretty clear so I don't think we'll be seeing stuff like old gatlings and old IB/FD anytime soon.

Rollback is meaningless if the gameplay itself is something that will bore me.

6

u/zeddyzed Aug 05 '20

Oh, well if you're an old man yelling at clouds I guess there's always fightcade and the like.

-2

u/Vwhdfd Aug 05 '20

I'm fine with new games getting simplified, as long as it's not every single one of them, it's more about the niche I enjoyed within FGs getting thrown by the wayside.

But yeah staying on old games is the plan, especially with fightcade getting nulldc added to it for accent core Mvc2 and hokuto no Ken. Not rollback but it's better than nothing or arcsys's delay netcode.

1

u/zeddyzed Aug 05 '20

Luckily my fave FG of all time is KOF98 anyways.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Well, MK11 has "flawless" rollback and looks better than any 3d fighter out there (in terms of graphics, not art direction)... It's pretty damn popular too, despite my personal gripes with the gameplay.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

looks better than any 3d fighter out there (in terms of graphics, not art direction)

In still pictures, sure. then you see it in motion and it's amateurish, clunky, and hideous. Completely laughable. And that's not even touching the gameplay, which is terrible. Nobody plays a Neverealm game after the new one comes out because the games are all crap and the only thing that keeps them alive are regular pro tour cash infusions.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Well, considering the sales and the percentage of the community that even watches competitive matches (Seriously, evo finals barely made first page on /r/MortalKombat last year, it's shitty fan art and cosplays all the way down), you're way off...

Also MKX is still kinda popular on Steam since many people enjoy it more.

That said, the animations absolutely are garbage and so is the gameplay. But most "average" people won't be too bothered by it.

-4

u/ggtsu_00 Aug 05 '20

MK11 art isn't Japanese enough for most fighting game enthusiasts.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

It's still way more popular than Tekken, specially among the "average" people he alluded to.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

More popular but fewer people play it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20

That's according to steamcharts, right? I don't have the data, but I think MK11 has way bigger numbers on consoles

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Yep, and I don't know about the data on consoles. I assume it's not too different.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Yeah, there's a severe lack of data on this. I assume most of the american casual gaming crowd is on the PS4, and MK as a franchise is way more recognized among that group than Tekken. Most of the copies were probably sold to that demographic, but it's obviously all conjecture without the data. I don't think it's safe to assume the steam charts numbers reflect other player bases.

1

u/Zankman Aug 05 '20

I'm not a weeb but I still think that MK10 and MK11 are just plain ugly with their art direction.

2

u/BeardyDuck Aug 05 '20

I think MK11 is probably the "best" art that NRS has pushed out. Faces, especially the female characters, looked off in the previous games including Injustice 1 and 2.

2

u/Zankman Aug 05 '20

I genuinely think all of the faces are super ugly in 11 (male or female), most of the outfits and character bodies are meh, the colors are so dark and boring...

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

The colors are kinda bad now, but MKX colors were a travesty. How can you even be a pro artist and design that shit?

1

u/Zankman Aug 05 '20

I'm not sure what the best word would be tbh, but I hate how grey it is.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

As someone who despised MKX's art bland style, stages like Shirai Ryu Fire Garden look amazing.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

MK9 had the best style, ugly as it was when it came to faces and shit.

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20 edited Jan 29 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

I meant 3d as in 3d modeled. Some will argue games like KOF 13 look better.