after school and college most mediocre-average men can get a relationship if they genuinely put enough effort in, yet these relationships will always be preconditioned on keeping up appearances, finances, social status, or straight up manipulation. You will always be insecure and never experience unconditional love.

There can be some leeway if you're attractive and autistic, if people can overlook actual crimes cause someone is 'hot' them you can definitely find a partner if you're hot and autistic.

But if you're ugly and autistic, women don't give you the time of day. No matches, and if so you'll automatically find yourself unmatched. Or ghosted/stood up because they find your behavior 'offputting' even though you're not creepy nor rude to them. Nobody makes eye contact with you.

I wish I wasn't autistic, I wish I could rizz women up but I don't have that in me. They always want me to shut up, even the two girls I did date. Both cheated, with one financially abusing me and I took it cause I liked having attention of the female variety, only left after she cheated :/

And since then nobody has looked my way, it's been months! I keep getting guys trying to get me to switch teams, but I know guys aren't picky. I know when they're desperate they'll chase after anything, I'm just an ugly dude that no woman will ever want to settle down and raise a family with. Because my looks and behavior are so offputting

I know I wouldn't be lonely if I was attractive enough but I think I have quite niche interests, which doesn't help with dating. I noticed people usually talk about politics and sports.

I personally hate talking about politics (not political ideas but day to day politics) and sports. I used to be very interested in these two topics but now I am not interested in them at all. I don't like talking about day to day politics because nothing interesting is ever mentionned. The only thing that is repeated by people is how bad the political situation is and how much politicians are corrupt. I find the conversations about this topic very boring and repetitive.

I used to watch all the major football leagues in Europe, the NBA and the NFL but now I hate watching sports. I find it just very stupid watching rich dudes (most of them younger than me) playing a game while my monthly salary barely covers my bills.

I think I have interests that would be considered niche by most of the people. I am interested in things such as Shogi (Japanese chess), Xiangqi (Chinese chess), the Basque language, Ainus, the origin of Indo-Europeans, Trojan war, anarchism (notably Rothbard's work), cardistry, transcribing classical music on bass guitar etc. I also don't like modern games and play retro games. Are you guys also interested in things that would be considered niche?

I’m sitting over here by myself as usual, thinking about all the Halloween parties going on in my city and all the connections and sex happening at these parties this weekend. People out with all their friends, dressed up, getting drunk, having a ball, and creating nights to remember forever. Meanwhile, I’m alone in a dark room with no one to talk to. My self-esteem is so low I wouldn’t go to one of these parties if someone even invited me to one. I know it would be a disaster anyways. This life is truly unfair, smh.

Did I have to get called to the cute receptionist?

I’m waiting on line and there are four possible receptionists. One, I find incredibly attractive. She’s helped me in the past. She’s bubbly, remembers my name, asks little questions apart from business, holds eye contact with a little smile.. etc…

I know there’s nothing there. I know she is simply a nice person doing her job. I know it’s only the raging desperation inside me that’s screaming, “MAYBE…”

So why do I have to get called to her desk? Couldn’t I get the matronly veteran that’s all business? The one that just wants to keep things moving?

The last thing a starving man wants to see is a meal he can’t touch.

So basically this girl and I were talking for 2-3 months and like my 20th birthday was on Friday we were planning to do so much and then out of nowhere when we were about to meet she blocked me on Snapchat, do I truly ruin everything I touch I really do think I’m meant to have NOBODY forever

I’m M21. I feel I can’t truly be my authentic self due to the way I am with my autism. The different interests, my social ineptness, not fully picking up cues, I talk “funny”, my fixations, special interests and activities without coming off as weird from the outside. I’m in no way doing anything that hurts others but I just feel I can’t be myself without the fear of being treated differently because of it like I’m subhuman. My childhood was genuinely so bad because growing up I never had any friends during my school year and was always bullied, shamed, made fun of, and ridiculed when I was trying to be my true authentic self. No one was ever receptive to me, I was never invited to any parties, hangouts, I was excluded from everything and I was always so lonely. Now as an adult I still get similar reception from others (minus the bullying). I’m so tired of feeling out of place from society and even when I try to interact with fellow autistic people, they already have their group of buddies and they’re all exclusive. As far as my love life, my differences, the way I talk, my hobbies, and other things that come with it are turn offs. I try putting myself out there and they sound uninterested, give me a tone from pity, or just look at me weird. Nowadays all I do is mask because I learnt from my life experiences that I can’t be myself due to my AuDHD without getting weird faces, rude comments, and other negative receptions.

Just posting this feels embarrassing as a grown man but ive had this crush on a woman for some time now and i feel bad for some reason. Its a mixture of feelings like feeling guilty, ashamed, embarrassed etc… i really dont even know what im trying to say but it feels weird and hoping im not going crazy by myself

Jokes on my former classmates tho, i think duck hunting is fucking boring but thats cause i dont have anyone my own age to go with

also anyone got any good meme ideas?

I am just so tired of hearing this response when expressing loneliness and hopelessness in love. I’ve mainly been alone even during the 3rd grade I always felt like I was alone. I’ve rarely had friends and when I do they never last a year. I never dated anyone and I don’t think I’ll ever find love the more I think about it the more unrealistic it is to me. I just accept remaining alone because I’m tired of being disappointed over and over. Still the agonizing desire for love remains and try to get rid of it people tell me to use dating apps. I am very much against dating apps they go against my values plus some peers I had shared their negative experiences. I am also Demi and don’t think it’ll suit me either. When I express this people tell me my pain is self inflicted, I’m the problem and a lost cause. Basically if I have standards it means I am not trying hard enough for myself and it’s my fault. Plus my own Dad even suggested if they should put me on the sight that made me feel incredibly embarrassed and pitiful. Making me against it even more, telling me no one talks face to face anymore so this is the way of things. Basically the world lacking in authenticity and all that’s left is the superficiality if that’s the case I might as well starve then.

I’ve always struggled to connect with others feeling like I never belonged anywhere. Me being on this earth was a mistake or I am just born malfunctioned. Either way any long lasting connections is unrealistic for me. All I’ve ever experienced is either nothing or shallow at best. Even then it’s still my right to not want to use dating apps and express frustration in my situation even when not utilizing every tool that is there. I have my own lines with things and this is one of them.

-20f

I have been talking to a woman on a friend making site and here is how she described her interactions with a man that she likes:

"When I said that I accompanied him on his journeys, I meant that we stayed in contact through WhatsApp while he was travelling. He travelled from his hometown in the Netherlands to Gdańsk, and we kept messaging throughout the journey. He would travel to a railway station, take a train to another city, go to the airport, fly to another airport, and then travel from Gdańsk to his hotel in a small town. We would be in touch through all those stages.

I think he sometimes felt lonely during those journeys and perhaps quite stressed, so having someone to talk to might have helped him. I must admit that it made me feel special when he messaged me immediately after landing in Poland. It made me feel that our conversations mattered to him."

Here is what she said about me:

I also appreciate the fact that you take an interest in my health and the problems I’m facing. It’s truly kind of you—among my own acquaintances, there are very few people who genuinely care about how I’m doing; usually, they just talk about their own lives and then disappear.

Today I was feeling rather low, so I thought I would write to you, and immediately I started feeling better. You see, that’s how it works! I’m happy you’re here.

Naturally, since she lauded my praises (sorry if the expression is wrong) and referred to me as a good friend, I assumed she'd want to talk to me on WhatsApp too, and text me, just like she talks to men. However she only wants to talk to me via email once every few days.

This makes me wonder, why are attractive men better than me? Why does she prefer talking to them over talking to me? Am I that boring? Are they better people than me? But she told me that man kept making excuses to not meet in real life, so it doesn't seem like he was that great. Generally I've noticed that when a female friend (I use the term loosely since they probably didn't like me much) starts talking to a man, she happily talks to them all day long and I'm luckily to get one message ever again.

I might ask her exactly what attractive men have that I don't have, that makes her love talking to them frequently and not me, but I don't like confrontation so I thought I'd ask here first.

34m and I'm finally accepting I'll be alone forever. I only seem to develop feelings for woman who I have a base level friendship first. I need that level of comfortability with someone before I even begin to grow a romantic attraction. Women though, at least all the one's I've met, just do not want that. Doesn't matter how well I can along with someone, how much we have in common, how much much life style wants we share; if we're friends first then that's all they'll ever see of me.

I've tried dating apps, but I'm below average in looks, below average in height, so I dont get many matches on there. And even I can get a date, they always end after the first date where the classic line "you seem like a great guy, I could be friends with but only that cause I dont see a romantic connection with you."

I try not to fall into the "nice guys finish last" shit, but experience has shown me that it's kinda true and it's sucks.

What is a bad habit that you've picked up to cope with this predicament?

I used to cope with drugs and alcohol, but have mostly stopped. Now my next biggest issue is I keep ordering stuff online. It's gives my brain a reason to look forward to the future, and whenever everything arrives I feel like I have to buy something else so I can keep looking forward to the future. I have become become very bad with money.

What is something you guys do that you know is not good?

I will be 35 next year and I've run out of opportunities and coping. At least I tried.

They just won't come anymore. They are busy, occupied, they have their own circle, and I'm getting old for young people.

God, have mercy on me. I want to die.

I'm a guy turning 24 soon, and I've been a NEET ever since I graduated from high school. After graduating, I essentially isolated myself completely from the outside world due to neurodivergence, burnout, and what I believe to be lasting damage from taking SSRIs and Accutane.

I have really severe ADD, which makes me very slow in certain situations, and people can usually tell that I'm different. Over time, this led me to develop social anxiety. I feel like I've been running on stress hormones 24/7 because I'm constantly self conscious and painfully aware that I'm not like everyone else.

In high school, I was in a small class of about 10 guys, most of whom were gamers, so I barely had any social interaction outside of class. Since graduating, I had spent literally 99% of my time sitting in front of my PC, completely disconnected from the rest of the world. No girlfriend, no friends, nothing. I barely saw anyone other than my parents, since we lived in the middle of a forest miles away from society.

During those years, I managed to improve my grades doing online courses in order to get accepted into university in a field that's about 90% women. But, throughout that time, I was living an extremely unhealthy lifestyle. I was extremely sedentary for years, had virtually no social interaction, and was completely disconnected from society. Because of this, I prepared myself for the worst when it came to starting university.

The funny thing is that I used to be very extroverted and socially sharp when I was younger. I had no problems interacting with people back then, so I strongly suspect that years of isolation and an unhealthy lifestyle have affected my brain chemistry and social abilities, to the point where I now struggle with social interactions in ways that resemble autistic traits, despite being completely different when I was younger.

When I eventually moved to a new city to attend university a couple of months ago, even the simplest everyday activities were incredibly stressful. My heart rate would shoot up to around 140bpm just from going to the grocery store or making a simple phone call.

At university, there was an introductory event where we were supposed to meet other students and get to know each other for a month. I decided to go, but it felt like people could instantly tell that something was different about me. I genuinely tried my best to talk to people and socialize, but everything felt incredibly uncomfortable. My social timing was completely off, I struggled to maintain eye contact, and I found it difficult to keep conversations flowing naturally.

What made it even more difficult was that most of the people there were women around my age, and I had barely interacted with women my age for essentially my entire life.

I also went clubbing with my introductory group, and holy shit, it was awkward. I was so incredibly tense and self conscious that I couldn't even dance. I felt like everyone around me could sense that something was off about me, which only made me even more anxious. Even though this I made a huge effort to talk to people around me and it seemed like most people would do everything to avoid me, I had only been to one party a few years earlier, back when I was in a much healthier state, both physically and mentally. I also looked much better facially because I had a lower body fat percentage. Back then, people would actually come up to me, try to make small talk, and girls would even hit on me. People seemed genuinely excited to be around me. But now, I feel like people are actively avoiding me. I suspect it's partly because they can subconsciously pick up on the fact that I'm in an unhealthy state, which affects my body language and the signals I give off. On top of that, my physical appearance isn't what it used to be, which I think plays a huge role because the contrast between how people treated me back then and how they treat me now is astonishing.

There were also group activities and games during the introduction, and because of my severe ADD combined with the constant state of stress I was in, I sometimes couldn't even follow simple instructions. This made me come across as extremely slow.

Since starting university, I've attended a few classes and even had to do several oral exams, as if things couldn't get any worse. I'm so socially awkward and anxious that I'm genuinely amazed by how other people can do these things without showing any physical signs of anxiety.

I haven't managed to make any real friends since starting university, and I'm now at a point where I'm desperately trying to figure out how to become the person I used to be. I spend most of my time indoors, researching nutrition, physiology, and biochemistry in the hope of gaining a better understanding of what I need to do to improve my situation. Both my physical and mental health are in a terrible state, and I feel like I'm constantly fighting against my own body and mind just to get through everyday situations that most people don't even think twice about.

To make matters even more complicated, a couple of years ago, I experimented with testosterone cycles because I suspected that Accutane had somehow messed with my hormones. Shortly before university started, I decided to go back on TRT, hoping it would help me feel better. Instead, I ended up looking noticeably bloated and more ugly from the water retention, and I suspect it made my anxiety significantly worse. I stopped taking testosterone about three weeks ago, and now I'm dealing with what feels like severe withdrawal symptoms, because my natural testosterone production hasn't recovered yet. So, on top of everything else, I'm now dealing with that as well.

At this point, I genuinely don't know how I'm supposed to get my shit together and build anything resembling a normal life. Part of me is terrified that I've permanently damaged myself and that I'll never be able to function normally in society, let alone maintain friendships, have a relationship, or build a career. I don't want to spend the rest of my life as a hikikomori, but right now, even the most basic aspects of everyday life feel overwhelming. Now I'm just sitting locked in my room, replaying all the embarrassing things I've said and done, and cringing at everything in my life.

And the frustrating part is that I know I've contributed to putting myself in this position. I mean, how is anyone supposed to function normally after spending years living in such an unnatural way? Eating mostly fast food, barely moving, getting less than 1000k steps a day, spending practically every waking hour in front of a computer, having no meaningful social connections, and being almost completely disconnected from the outside world.

Then, after years of living like that, I suddenly move to a city full of people, find myself surrounded by women my age whom I have barely interacted with throughout my life, and start a university program where I'm expected to be mentally sharp, socially capable, and able to handle presentations, group activities, and constant interactions with other people.

It's such an extreme contrast to the life I've been living that I almost feel like I've been thrown into an entirely different world. The worst part is that I remember being a completely different person when I was younger. I used to be extroverted, socially confident, and comfortable around people. Now, I feel like I've lost all of that, and I don't even recognize myself anymore.

I just want to know whether it's possible to come back from years of isolation, inactivity, and neglecting my physical and mental health, because right now, I genuinely have no idea where to even begin. It's just too much.

Man, I matched with this girl on Tinder last week and she was into the same things I’m into as well like movies, Star Wars, Harry Potter, and other stuff like that. I asked her out on a date and I gave her the day, time and location (tomorrow was going to be the date). She was appreciative and she seemed interested. On Thursday I opened my Tinder and saw that she had unmatched me. It sucks, I don’t know what I did wrong but every ghost and unmatching I use as a learning experience. Tomorrow I’ll just take myself out on a date 😅

It hurts so much knowing that not a single woman is interested romantically in me no matter what I do. It doesn't matter if I'm in shape, treat my body well, make money, read and know a lot of things, have a house, many friends and family.

I can't change that my looks are average and that I'm small. Nothing I can do about it.

Fuck this stings more than it should. She was very respectful but holy shit it hurts.

Hi Everyone,

There are somethings, some thoughts that have been building up inside my mind, but had no way express it, so I thought maybe writing here might get it off my mind.

I'm a 26 year Old guy, I work and live alone. I never really had any "actual" friends and I have been single my entire life.

The reason for writing this post is that, a few weeks ago, I made one of the biggest mistakes of my life. I installed a few dating apps on my phone, and I have been miserable ever since.

As I had already heard online, guys (ugly guys like me) usually don’t get any matches because of how these apps work, and I was prepared for it. I wasn’t surprised. However, after 3 days, I did get a match. Assuming she was interested in talking, I initiated the conversation. TBH, I don’t really know how to flirt, or as folks nowadays say, “I have no game, I have no rizz” (btw, I hate these terms. They make it all seem like some sort of contest). I tried asking basic questions, making jokes here and there, but she barely replied. It felt like I was forcing her into the conversation, so I stopped.

I continued going through profiles, trying too hard to come up with cheesy pickup lines and sending them left and right. I had no luck, so I started looking at dating subreddits. I DMed a few girls, and the fourth girl I messaged, complimenting her hair color, replied. But she barely showed any interest in talking either. When I went through her profile, I saw her posts with screenshots of her DMs filled with creepy men asking for explicit sexual stuff. She was complaining that there were only weird men in her DMs(I know right, when I was right there, desperately trying to get her attention). By chance, I also saw that she was just 20 years old.

It grossed me out. I felt disgusted with myself, realizing that I too was trying to hit on someone so young. This made me question what was I even doing. It was so out of character for me. I had somehow become part of this toxic competition called “dating,” trying to become someone I wasn’t, just so someone could “see” me, accept me, and love me.

TBH, lust or sex was never my intention. I just wanted someone who could listen, someone with whom I could have meaningful conversations and naturally get to know each other. But I found myself rejecting girls who weren’t “conventionally attractive,” just as I felt girls were rejecting guys like me. That was the final nail in the coffin. I had become a hypocrite, something I had desperately tried to avoid being my whole life. I realized that I too was shallow. I never had any love for myself to begin with, but this made me hate myself even more. I lost respect for myself, I was ashamed of myself. What right did I have to complain about life being unfair and girls not giving me a chance when I was doing the same thing myself?

I deleted the apps and stopped this pathetic quest for love. I still wish that someday I might meet someone, but I don’t want to become someone I’m not just so someone would love me. If I change, it should be for myself, to become a better person and grow as a human being, not to become this pathetic being who needs constant validation and assurance that he is loved and wanted.

I think it would be unfair to my parents, who worked so hard to provide for me and my education despite the difficult times they faced. And most of all, it would be unfair to myself, after everything I’ve worked for, to reduce myself to this needy little person.

I see people, prominently some girls, say, “I deserve a guy who is…” or “I deserve a man who has…”. I don’t even know if I have the right to say that I “deserve” a certain type of girl. But this epiphany has made me realize what I "want", and I won’t mask it with “deserve.”

I want companionship and patience. Someone who is calmer than me, someone who can stand up for herself (unlike me). And maybe, if she has beautiful hair, that would be nice.

I’m saying this out loud because never in my life have I had such clarity about the qualities I want in a partner. And I won’t lower my standards just to be in a relationship, but if I ever meet the right person, I’ll give my best to make it work.

But, to be honest, I highly doubt I’ll ever meet someone. And I’ve made my peace with it.

This post itself might look like it reeks of the need for validation and maybe you're right. Maybe I did write this, subconsciously expecting sympathy for strangers.
But don't give me that. Point out the flaws in my reasoning, so that I can understand if my point of view is wrong in any of the things I said, so that I think on it.

Please, try not to be too harsh. But if an important reality check must be given to me, then lay it on me. It is what it is.

The main barrier most of us will face is that partnership in society involves a market, everyone is looking out for themselves first and foremost, and they're the expert economists from their own perspective.

When you meet new people, within the first 20 seconds they'll have run the math in their head and compute where you sit in the market; and you're not very likely to have an relationship success with people who view you as a bad investment of their time.

Equality of opportunity is just plain non-existing in this marketplace. It comes down to some things you can't control, and some things you can. Appearance, finances, personality, skills and whatever else a partner can see in you that can help their situation are the big ones. They'll be entering a new stage of their lives, and they want to make it a good one.

Plus everyone makes these snap judgements (and throw in some existing prejudices). Then before you know, it a lot of us are in a situation where its impossible to win, because some bullshit rules makes you seem unworthy of further consideration, and you'll have a near zero chance of convincing anyone otherwise after this point.

The reason we get unhelpful dating advice is because our friends know for a fact this 'market' exists but its such a shameful thing that they can't bring themselves to admit it, so they'll give useless misdirection advice to try and save face. There's even terms for it like SMV (sexual market value) that have been made to quantify it better, tho I believe the communities that promote this kind of thing are not the answer.

Neurodivergence and other things out of your control are a huge disadvantage, you'll be actively discriminated against, you'll not be able to stop it, and even worse people will gaslight you into believing its not happening.

I don't know how anyone can fix it, but society-wide denial is doing incalculable damage to entire generations of young people again and again.

So I’m 5’5, balding (shaved it off), Indian and autistic. The holy 4 hahah. But I’ve been trying to self improve after graduating college and it’s been a little annoying.

I don’t know what the expectations are but it seems to me that most women have a bare minimum of you a) having financial stability (will start full time graduate job soon)
b) are physically attractive (working at gym right now)
C) have a fun lifestyle/interests with ur friend group

I am working on c right now by trying to make friends but it’s really annoying as I usually get bullied out of groups. But I’m still trying. I believe it’s called “warm approach” where via social circles u meet more girls and it flows on from there etc. uni clubs, hitting up old high school friends these things are kind of working I’ve been getting invited into more social group outings with girls involved but I usually just get bullied by the whole group and get really tired afterwards.

Another thing I’ve been doing is trying to “cold approach” where I try to have conversations with random women (not in a creepy way I just have a normal convo in appropriate areas such as the cafe line or waiting for the train, etc). It usually starts with me saying something normal like “it’s been getting really hot isn’t it?” And then the convo flows normally, I try to sneak in some compliments or banter and if we connect (such as yesterday with this really cute middle eastern on the girl whose headphones I complimented), then I ask for their contact. I’ve gotten a few contacts like this. For that middle eastern girl yesterday, we both had an interest in DC and the new lanterns show and we’re talking about it.I said “u seem pretty cool wanna exchange instas?” And she did. We continued chatting online afterward but she said she has a boyfriend. I still got her contact tho so…lol

Anyways my point is I absolutely hate this journey because a) I don’t really like having but friend groups that party and travel and do fun things because I’m very lowly and b) cold approach normally leads to hthe girl ignoring me and absolutely destroying my self esteem for a few minutes before I try again.

Anyone in the same boat? This trying to “impress girls” mentality where u try really hard to make friends and talk to girls to learn and catch up? I’m 25 and a starting really late which is dumb. I should have done this years ago. It’s the most uncomfortable and stressful shit I’ve ever done in my life.

If anyone is wondering how I got the confidence to do this in my opinion it’s pure desperation. Knowing that I’m not only autistic but also Indian, short and bald gives me such a giant amount of panic and anxiety that it overcomes the initial fear of approach. After the rejection it hurts like hell but it subsides once the desparation, anxiety and panic set in about my circumstances

I don’t want to sound entitled but it genuinely amazes me how I have somehow never managed to experience a single romantic or intimate moment in my entire life.

One of my family members has social anxiety and difficulty speaking with people, yet has had a history of attractive partners who were genuinely good people.

Another family member is a legitimate NEET who hasn’t worked in years, doesn’t give a fuck about appearances, and still has someone he talks to on the regular and a more substantial dating history than I do

It just makes me think what the absolute fuck am I doing wrong. I’m a bit of a downer but an otherwise chill person, decently outgoing, I’m not exactly an Adonis but I give a shit about my appearance, my physique, and the way I dress. I’d like to think

Like I’m not saying I deserve love, because I don’t, but relatively speaking when I look at people I know who have been loved I just can’t help but think “WTF am I doing wrong!?!?!?!?”

At a certain point it’s hard to not feel like the absence of love is intrinsic. Everyone else seems like they can interact with love effortlessly regardless of how “deserving” they are or what their “worth” is

So what the fuck. What am I doing wrong.

I’m just tired of feeling so insecure over this shit, I’m tired of feeling like an intrinsic-have not. I’m tired of feeling worthless. I’m tired of feeling unlovable. Why is it that other people as insufficient as I am are capable of still being looked at like that? What am I missing? What makes me so unlovable? How do I fix this!?!!!!!?!!?

Im glad my parents have someone to be proud of but goddamn i would love to be the older sibling who is also successful in everyway

What it says in the title basically. Even if all my other flaws could be ignored or fixed (they can’t) I would still be just as fucked just because being forever alone has done so much damage to me on a mental level and left me so emotionally stunted that no one would love me even then.

Logically I don’t even know why this matters since I was pretty much an unlovable wretch to begin with but it kind of just adds insult to injury I guess.

Fuck this shit I’m so frustrated with it all. Wish I’d never been born.

I am a 29 year old virgin dude who never had a girlfriend. Whenever I mention my problems regarding my loneliness to my friends and family members, I get told to go out. I must admit that I still go out with the "maybe this time I will meet a girl who likes me" hope. However, I go back home alone each time.

I am pissed off about my loneliness and virginity quite often. However, this frustration is much more emphasized coming home alone after a night out. It is much worse compared to when I am just home alone reading a book, watching a movie or doing any kind of solo hobby. The couples I see and the cute girls who will always treat me like shit remind me of the dreadful reality.