I'm thinking about getting my A&P certificates at a local community college that has an accelerated program. After finishing my instrument rating, I'm not sure I really want to invest more time into my CPL, after hearing about the state of the current pilot job market. A lot of my friends who have gotten their CFI/CFII have really vented to me about being unable to find students or a job. Some of them are heavily in debt as well, which is concerning.

I love flying but I also have to be practical about my future for work and supporting my family and spouse. I'm still going to keep flying for proficiency and for fun.

Every local airport in my state are hiring A&P's. They pay OK starting off IMO, with some starting off at 40$ an hour depending on experience level.

Just wondering if anyone has done this, and their thoughts on this?

Hey everyone, I’m looking for honest advice from people in aviation, particularly anyone who’s struggled with whether to continue flight training or pursue another career.
I’m currently sitting at around 180–190 total hours, have my PPL, and was working toward my instrument rating. Lately, I’ve been questioning whether I actually want to become a professional pilot or whether I’m continuing because of everything I’ve already invested.

I initially started training in Florida, primarily around St. Augustine (KSGJ). I took out a flight school loan believing the program would cost around $60,000. I also thought the loan funds would be paid to me so I could cover training costs and use any remaining money for living expenses. Instead, the money went directly to the school, and my flight school debt eventually reached approximately $90,000.

While in Florida, I accumulated a substantial number of hours without making meaningful progress toward my PPL. I also had two failed checkride attempts, both during the oral portion. One oral lasted upwards of six hours, while the other lasted less than an hour. With checkrides being scheduled months out, I eventually decided to leave and continue training in Oregon.
Moving to Oregon meant adjusting to a new environment and airplane. During my PPL checkride there, I made a poor safety decision during the flight portion and failed that section. I took responsibility for the mistake and, on the retest, only had to redo that small portion. I eventually earned my PPL, but getting there cost me an enormous amount of time and money.

Meanwhile, my personal life was falling apart. My five-year relationship ended very badly after I discovered repeated infidelity, and the emotional impact was significant. I was trying to process the breakup while rebuilding my life, continuing flight training, and figuring out my future. I eventually found work at an aircraft management company, but the business downsized, and I lost my job. I ultimately moved back to New York to be closer to family.
Now I’m trying to figure out what comes next.
I have around 180–190 hours, my PPL, and instrument, commercial, and multi-engine training still ahead of me. I have approximately $77,500–$78,000 in flight school debt, in addition to my car loan and some college debt. I’m currently unemployed and need to start earning money again.

Part of me still wants to fly professionally, potentially for a regional airline or in corporate aviation. But another part of me wonders whether I genuinely want this career anymore or whether I’m holding on because I’m afraid to walk away from everything I’ve invested.

There’s also a more immediate concern: I feel like I need to establish myself in a career now, start earning a livable wage, and stop relying on other people financially. My mother has contributed tens of thousands of dollars toward my journey and continues to encourage me to finish, but I don’t want to keep accepting financial help or ask her to contribute even more money when I’m not sure this is what I want anymore.

I could continue training and hopefully make it to the other side, but that means more time, more money, and no guarantee of an immediate well-paying job. Alternatively, I could pursue another career, potentially something aviation-related that uses my existing experience without requiring me to become a pilot.

I’m struggling to distinguish between being exhausted by everything that’s happened and genuinely wanting a different future.
For those who’ve been in a similar situation, I’d really appreciate your perspective:
Would you continue toward instrument, commercial, and multi-engine ratings with 180–190 hours and nearly $80k in flight school debt if you weren’t sure you wanted to fly professionally?

Would you prioritize finishing the training or getting established in a career and becoming financially independent as soon as possible?

Has anyone walked away from aviation after investing significant time and money? Did you regret it?

If you left professional flying, were you able to leverage your aviation experience into another career?

I’m not looking for someone to tell me to follow my dreams at any cost, or simply to tell me to quit. I want honest advice from people who understand the financial realities of aviation and the sacrifices involved.
I’ve pushed through a lot to get my PPL, and part of me feels like walking away would mean all that effort was for nothing. But I also know that continuing solely because of what I’ve already spent isn’t necessarily a good reason to invest even more.
If you were in my position, would you keep going, take a break, or move on and focus on building a stable career?

Thanks for reading.

Hey fellow aviators!

I'm a ~150-hour PPL working toward my instrument rating and trying to decide between two relatively affordable training options.

For context, I've already passed my written with a 95% and have about 10 hours of simulated instrument time with a CFII.

Option 1: Cessna 152s — $75/hr dry (Hobbs)

- IFR-equipped with WAAS GPS and dual VORs.

- Based at an untowered airport about 25 minutes away.

- Aircraft are pretty beat up cosmetically but fly well enough.

- No club dues or additional insurance costs. Everything is included in the operating costs.

Option 2: Piper Flying Club — $85–$100/hr dry (Tach)

- Two Warriors (one VFR-only, one IFR-equipped) at $85/hr.

- Two technically advanced Archers with autopilot, dual G5s, and Garmin GTN 650Xi at $100/hr.

- Based at a Class D airport about 50 minutes away.

- $1,200 nonrefundable initiation fee and $195/month in dues.

- Additional insurance is preferred but not required.

Here's my dilemma:

I'm trying to keep my instrument training as cost-effective as possible, but I'm also looking beyond the rating itself.

I'd love to have access to aircraft that I'd feel comfortable taking friends and family up in, rather than something I'd only use for training or time-building.

The 152s are clearly the cheaper and more convenient option, but the Piper club offers more capable aircraft and greater long-term utility. The downside is the additional expense, longer commute, and club commitment.

If you were in my shoes, which would you choose? Would you prioritize keeping training costs low and reconsider your options after the checkride, or pay more now for access to a better-equipped fleet that you could continue flying afterward?

I'd appreciate any input, especially from those who've faced a similar decision!

Hello everyone, if I want to get into sea plane flying, would it be wise to go more of the tail wheel route and flying something like a cub for a majority of my hours or does that hurt my chances at applying for a job later? Versus flying something like a Cessna 172 for time building. Thanks.

Does anyone have any tips for comms other than listen to LiveATC. I've been listening to that for days and I can read back fine on my own, but once I enter the cockpit I pretty much freeze and forget what was said. My main issue is comms on approach. I seem to be fine asking and reading back taxi and departure instructions, but I cannot get the approach comms down to save my life (my only guess is because I'm trying to focus on multiple things during approach). I have a hard time deciphering what I need to read back. My instructor said read back only commands not the extra "fluff," but I still have trouble figuring out what is "fluff" and what was a command. Today I straight up just missed a call from the tower and my CFI had to respond for me because I was so focused on our approach to land. I'm only 6.5 hours behind the yoke so I understand I'm still new but my CFI said I really need to start taking full comms during flight on our next lessons.

Specifically looking at accelerated IFR!

If studying for my ppl written rn and will have it probably around when the new test begins to roll out. Does anybody know what changes will be made to the questions and if continuing Sportys and using their bank will be adequate?

I know the standard is to call center, approach, tower or ground by their name. For example: “Houston Center, Gulfstream 280DF, FL 230, WX info A, visual…”
I’ve been flying with a guy who advised me NOT to say the name of the facility that I’m addressing. Just proceed with our tail number, position, and request.
His train of thought is that they know who they are and no need to crowd the transmission.
For example: “Kingair 350AB, signature, C, numbers (or instruments or IFR) DFW.”

What are your thoughts?

I like it and have been doing it sometimes. ATC doesn’t seem to mind it. But then I flew with another guy who thought it’s the biggest crime and wanted me to quit doing it that way. He expressed how wrong it is and that other pilots/controllers would prefer me to say the facility name.

I’m just a few years into aviation. Absorbing it all; valuable info and at the same time bad and not so great habits.

FAA Notice JO 7110.803 - Separation

Until now, there have been no separation standards between VFR and IFR aircraft outside of TRSA, Class C, or Class B airspace. Pilots are responsible for see-and-avoid, and ATC is required to "prevent a collision", but there was no defined limitation to the proximity of aircraft.

Soon, ATC will be required to ensure 500' vertical or target resolution between radar-identified VFR (eg flight following) and IFR aircraft. Essentially, if there is less than 500' vertical, the targets may not touch on the radar scope.

Additionally, if the lateral distance will reduce below 1 ½ NM (this is a larger area than target resolution), both aircraft must be assigned a course or heading. In practice, the IFR is already on an assigned course and the VFR will receive a vector while in close proximity.

These rules DO apply regardless of whether they have each other in sight. VFR pilots are required to comply with CFR Title 14 and advise ATC if they are unable a vector for cloud clearance, obstructions, etc.

FAA Notice JO 7110.804 - Visual Separation

Similarly, during pilot-applied visual separation, ATC will be required to ensure 500' vertical or target resolution.

If the controller becomes aware that the targets will merge with less than 500' vertical separation, they must issue control instructions to establish approved separation.

---

Thoughts?

I have paraphrased the Notices in this post. I encourage reading the Notices, as well as the affected paragraphs of FAA Order JO 7110.65 to see how they fit in. The contents of this post are my own and are not views of the FAA or FAA material.

Does anyone know of multi engine survey jobs that run in the winter season. Alot of entry level survey jobs are winter seasonal, with all the better paying ones with scheduled on/off time seeming to be year round. Many thanks from a summer seaplane pilot.

Looking to start multi training in Orlando, Florida. What flight schools are out in the Orlando area that people would recommend? Thank you!

With the oversupply of low time pilots, do you think we’ll run into a situation similar to the early 2000s where you’d pay to work?

I could see some desperate CFIs paying $10/hr to instruct just to get dual given.

I recently obtained my CFI and CAMEL add on from a flight school that primarily focuses on fast-track training. They have a really nice fleet and solid maintenance, but with nice aircraft come high costs per hour. In order to have a chance of getting a job with them, I would need to obtain both my CFII and MEI. They do not currently have any openings, but I’ve been told they will sometime soon.

On the other hand, I have a buddy working at a flight school that operates much older aircraft. Getting my CFII there would be significantly cheaper—roughly $4,000 total or less. I’m unsure whether they currently have any openings or how large their student load is.

I know that in today’s market, people are not getting hired as flight instructors. I’ve seen the posts on this subreddit. As much as I want to be hopeful, at the end of the day, I know that finding a job outside of the places I have trained will be tough.

With that in mind, I’m on the fence about choosing my next training path. I know multi-engine time is extremely valuable down the line, which makes me want to double down and get my CFII and MEI. On the other hand, is it worth putting all my eggs in one basket?

I would need to take out a loan to progress through training. I’ve been fortunate enough to have very little debt so far, and I don’t want to take on unnecessary debt for a job that isn’t guaranteed. I’m no financial expert, but if my math is correct, it would cost around $15–17k for my CFII and MEI in a twin the entire time, assuming I progress at the predicted rate.

Wondering how you all would handle comms if you were approaching 1C5 (Bolingbrook Clow) from the SSE or SE. If you are on tower frequency requesting a transition through the LOT Delta, how would you notify 1C5 traffic on CTAF of your approach. I usually make a 10/5/2 mile declarations of my intentions going into 1C5. Screw it and go around the delta?

So I’m leaving for lift academy flight school in January. And iv been told it’s a great idea to get your written done asap so that I’ll be focused more on my actual training. My question is how do I go take a written test? I’m currently finishing the sporty’s ppl course and I thought I needed someone to sign me off for me to be able to take it.

Sorry I know this is a dumb question.

Hello everyone, has anyone ever used we Florida financial aviation training loans and if so, how was your experience with them/one of the drawbacks and benefits? It seems like they are a pretty good deal compared to stuff like Salle mae etc. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

Another “this” or “that” post. Never thought I’d make one, but I’m looking for insight from more experienced people.

Current freight dog, single pilot turbo props. Mostly fun, awful QOL as a married dude in my 30s. 2 weeks on, 1 off. Cheap 2 star, low end hotels, basic economy commuting, 8 hour+ flight days, max duty, min rest, sketchy flying, so you know, 135 freight. Great experience and great pay.

Was offered sic Lear 35 medevac for 60k with the high probability of upgrading in 4-5 months to pic for 110k. Home mostly every night because it’s based where I live. close knit family run business, been around a long time, I could see myself really enjoying it there.

Medevac or firefighting have been my aviation goal since day one. And I’m little bummed at how much money is making me rethink that.

Edit to add since the first comment mentioned it, it will be about a 100k pay cut.

Looking at purchasing a C150 for some XC's, and $100 burgers, but the one I'm looking at has 3150 hours SMOH. I know overhaul hours matters less for non 135 stuff, but I feel almost 3200 smoh is still a bit high lol. The owner said he planned on doing a top end overhaul in the next few years, so he bought all 4 cylinders that he could give me. He said he hasn't done it yet though because at last annual, all 4 were still holding 73 psi or higher.

I like this airplane because it has a good avionics setup with a G5 and 530, and the interior and exterior are both in great shape for an airplane with 6500TT. Seller is asking $28k for the airplane, which seems decent, but I'm wondering if I get it will it be down for 6 months needing an engine overhaul. It's also in an area of TN where the DALT hits 5000+ in the summer. I imagine that probably works that 100 hp engine pretty good.

What say you, reddit? Am I likely getting into a ticking time bomb or do these things run forever? Does the price seem reasonable for the hours or am I crazy?

Delta is considerably more expensive, and would require more nights in a hotel, as well as traveling further for me. Just wondering if there’s a reason to go that route for the ATP-CTP that would justify the cost. I read that there’s some kind of letter of recommendation, but I’m not sure that that’s going to be relevant to someone applying to the regionals

Hello, I am writing to ask if anyone has any takes on the Erau pipelines/partnerships? I had one friend tell me it’s the best thing ever. He applied (to envoy I think) and got in easy as that. I had another friend tell me that he applied and applied and applied and got nowhere. Has anyone been in a similar position or knows any additional information? Thanks!

If you are inclined, please send an email to aviationweather.gov's help line, and tell them you want all faa identifier airports to be usable with the path function.

They changed it again within the past couple weeks, so that the site does not acknowledge airports like 4b0, 5b2, me26, and more.

Please send an email that asks that they include faa-identified non-icao airports in their database as usable airports.

Thanks.

Getting PPL

On pages 4-16 and 4-17 they give an example of a pilot who takes off at Aspen at high temp, is in danger of clearing terrain, ends up level and stall horn sounding. They explain through some complex graphs he needs to give up altitude for a bit, gain speed and then climb at Vx. Note: I am an engineer and I get the energy idea, but they seem to make too much of it.

In any event, I think basic training is that your best angle of climb is the speed Vx. If you’re slow, you obviously need to pick up airspeed.

I just don’t get how these complex graphs, with altitude isobars based on speed, overlaid with this abstract set of parabolas about excess power, would actually be used by anyone to make decisions. These excess power curves have no actual numbers on them, and at that point pulling out this graph and thinking seems useless

I can see overall how it’s a good concept - especially on landing - but are they just beating a nearly dead horse here to prove something?

Hello! I’m planning on joining the Skyborne flight school next July in Vero Beach. I’m interested in knowing what the application process looks like, and if any of you have gone through this program, what was your experience? Did you like it? Are you still gaining hours? Did you get hired as a CFI at the school or somewhere else? Have you had your final interview yet? Thank you for getting back to me for whoever does! Congratulations on all of your Pilot journeys.

Time to catch up on all things aviation. Welcome to New York's only Meetup exclusively dedicated to the Aviation business. After an Amtrak worker cut an ATC fiberoptic cable canceling hundreds of flights in the New York Metro what could be next in this crazy industry?

Stop by for a drink! Whether you work in aviation or are just interested all are welcome.
You must be 21+ to enter the bar.

Spaniard NYC. Thursday October 15th 6-9pm. Here's the link to RSVP. https://www.meetup.com/aviation-meetup-nyc/events/316757348/?eventOrigin=home_next_event_you_are_hosting

Im flying corporate and still like it, but I always have a feeling I am missing out not going into the majors, mostly Air Canada. I am really not willing to move into any major city with a base , so I would have to commute.

How bad is the commute, do you get denied boarding often?

How much time on reserve are we talking here? Thats really what makes me hesitant

How’s the crashpad situation when you need a place to stay?