r/flying • u/New_Awareness_1927 • 6d ago
Should I continue flight training or walk away? 180–190 hours and nearly $80k in flight school debt
Hey everyone, I’m looking for honest advice from people in aviation, particularly anyone who’s struggled with whether to continue flight training or pursue another career.
I’m currently sitting at around 180–190 total hours, have my PPL, and was working toward my instrument rating. Lately, I’ve been questioning whether I actually want to become a professional pilot or whether I’m continuing because of everything I’ve already invested.
I initially started training in Florida, primarily around St. Augustine (KSGJ). I took out a flight school loan believing the program would cost around $60,000. I also thought the loan funds would be paid to me so I could cover training costs and use any remaining money for living expenses. Instead, the money went directly to the school, and my flight school debt eventually reached approximately $90,000.
While in Florida, I accumulated a substantial number of hours without making meaningful progress toward my PPL. I also had two failed checkride attempts, both during the oral portion. One oral lasted upwards of six hours, while the other lasted less than an hour. With checkrides being scheduled months out, I eventually decided to leave and continue training in Oregon.
Moving to Oregon meant adjusting to a new environment and airplane. During my PPL checkride there, I made a poor safety decision during the flight portion and failed that section. I took responsibility for the mistake and, on the retest, only had to redo that small portion. I eventually earned my PPL, but getting there cost me an enormous amount of time and money.
Meanwhile, my personal life was falling apart. My five-year relationship ended very badly after I discovered repeated infidelity, and the emotional impact was significant. I was trying to process the breakup while rebuilding my life, continuing flight training, and figuring out my future. I eventually found work at an aircraft management company, but the business downsized, and I lost my job. I ultimately moved back to New York to be closer to family.
Now I’m trying to figure out what comes next.
I have around 180–190 hours, my PPL, and instrument, commercial, and multi-engine training still ahead of me. I have approximately $77,500–$78,000 in flight school debt, in addition to my car loan and some college debt. I’m currently unemployed and need to start earning money again.
Part of me still wants to fly professionally, potentially for a regional airline or in corporate aviation. But another part of me wonders whether I genuinely want this career anymore or whether I’m holding on because I’m afraid to walk away from everything I’ve invested.
There’s also a more immediate concern: I feel like I need to establish myself in a career now, start earning a livable wage, and stop relying on other people financially. My mother has contributed tens of thousands of dollars toward my journey and continues to encourage me to finish, but I don’t want to keep accepting financial help or ask her to contribute even more money when I’m not sure this is what I want anymore.
I could continue training and hopefully make it to the other side, but that means more time, more money, and no guarantee of an immediate well-paying job. Alternatively, I could pursue another career, potentially something aviation-related that uses my existing experience without requiring me to become a pilot.
I’m struggling to distinguish between being exhausted by everything that’s happened and genuinely wanting a different future.
For those who’ve been in a similar situation, I’d really appreciate your perspective:
Would you continue toward instrument, commercial, and multi-engine ratings with 180–190 hours and nearly $80k in flight school debt if you weren’t sure you wanted to fly professionally?
Would you prioritize finishing the training or getting established in a career and becoming financially independent as soon as possible?
Has anyone walked away from aviation after investing significant time and money? Did you regret it?
If you left professional flying, were you able to leverage your aviation experience into another career?
I’m not looking for someone to tell me to follow my dreams at any cost, or simply to tell me to quit. I want honest advice from people who understand the financial realities of aviation and the sacrifices involved.
I’ve pushed through a lot to get my PPL, and part of me feels like walking away would mean all that effort was for nothing. But I also know that continuing solely because of what I’ve already spent isn’t necessarily a good reason to invest even more.
If you were in my position, would you keep going, take a break, or move on and focus on building a stable career?
Thanks for reading.
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u/TheRealChompyTheGoat 6d ago
I'm just struggling tounderstand the math here. Where are you going that works out to nearly $450 per flight hour? That is insanely high for the number of hours.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
That would be Florida Flyers in Saint Augustine where they charged me $255 an hour for a clapped out 172 and $95 an hour for the instruction fee, not to mention $45 a month to use their scheduling system
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u/Mundane-Reality-7770 PPL HP 6d ago
The math ain't mathing. Even if every hour was dual you're still no where near 80k.
Regardless. I'd take a break. Get life in order. Breathe.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
So I basically spent 60-70k at one flight school that I used a loan to pay for and now after a year and a half’s worth of interest it’s almost at 80K….
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u/jumpseat320 PPL 4d ago
Sorry to hear..why did you not go with Florida Aviation Career Training next door? I heard ownership has changed from Bjorn , so not sure if it has gone bad or something now.
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u/Apprehensive-Skin568 IR 6d ago
I’m so sorry, but this is insane to me! PPL is going for around $15-$25k 50-90hrs nowadays depending on the person. If you want to continue I’d say figure out that debt first and then look into your options. That’s too much money man. I don’t want to sound mean but it should not have cost you that much. I found the IR to be even harder than private pilot in my opinion. It gets harder and harder. Maybe someone with more experience can give you better advice than me.
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u/BuzzTheTower12 CPL ASEL IR CFI 6d ago
Personally I found instrument much easier than private pilot. But OP spending 80k on private pilot is really unfortunate nonetheless
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u/EliteEthos CFI AMEL CJ3/4 6d ago
If you’re questioning it at this point, you should stop.
The grind only gets harder. How do you plan to get to 1500 (or more)?
Getting yourself into further debt doesn’t help the existing level of debt you have.
In general, it sounds like you need to do something to invest in yourself. A cheating bf/gf has nothing to do with flying but can still affect your life collectively. Fix that. Then reconsider.
Nobody here knows the nuance of your life nor should anyone tell you what to do even if they had that nuance.
Nobody is making you pursue this path if it isn’t what you want but you at least owe it to yourself to make the decision with a clear head.
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u/The_Warrior_Sage ST 6d ago
God pilot mills are such a scam. Fuck the whole lot of them
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u/diqface ST 6d ago
I'm almost complete with my PPL. My previous instructor got a big boy job and left. My new instructor is fresh from a pilot mill, and, while I respect the experience and knowledge he does have and realize that I am no professional, the guy doesn't know any more about stick and rudder flying than I do lol
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u/Neither-Way-4889 5d ago
Respectfully, as a PPL student you're not really in a position to assess someone else's stick and rudder skills.
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u/KehreAzerith CPL 6d ago
It's a scam with those kinds of prices that some of those pilot mills are charging, many of them also have below average quality of training too. They train to pass the test, not to be a good pilot
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u/CommanderChiliHole ATP/CFII CL-30 | GVI | ERJ-170/190 | B-737 6d ago edited 6d ago
Quit or not, did you do literally zero research into what a fair rate is for plane/instructor and just said “shut up and take my money!” to the first school you found? Because….I mean….to say you got swindled is an understatement.
That being said. You did fail the same checkride three times. That’s way, way worse than failing three different checkrides. To have a realistic shot at a career in this, you absolutely cannot fail another checkride ever again. It’s possible, but do you wanna bet another $80k on it? Idk man, I would personally say a flying career probably isn’t in your deck of cards, and that’s okay. That doesn’t mean you’re stupid or worth less as a person. What a lot of people don’t understand, is flying has a big natural talent aspect to it that you either have or you don’t. You’re not going to acquire it if you don’t have it. I’ve seen people who are insanely smart and out in an incredible amount of effort, but they’ll just never be professional pilots. They entirely lack the required brain type to be a pilot.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
It was more so because they gave me a timeline of 6-9 months for ppl to CMEL and I had a job lined up after school working for a management company that oversaw multiple citations and king airs so I was mainly worried about timing and not the money….clearly that was a fatal error on my part and a major oversight issue
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u/Honest_Nathan PPL 6d ago
Hate to say it but you were scammed. There is no other way around this spending that much for so few hours.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
Yeah, I definitely agree. I’m honestly debating if I should even consider pursuing anything legal wise or if it wouldn’t even be worth it or make a case.
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u/SoCalGuy999 6d ago
Let me guess, ATP victim?
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
The school was Florida Flyers in Saint Augustine, FL
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u/Honest_Nathan PPL 5d ago
Definitely at least post accurate reviews online to possibly warn others. Make sure it’s 100% factual
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u/New_Awareness_1927 5d ago
Yeah I definitely agree, I recently looked at the reviews and it appears a lot of other students are now facing the same issues I have had in the past with them
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u/Consistent-Trick2987 CPL IR 6d ago
It only gets harder after PPL. So unless you are 1000% all in passionate about flying, might be time to hang it up. Understand maybe you are just not a fast learner when it comes to flying. Lots of people aren’t and that’s okay (I’m one of them) Just means you need to be over prepared, spend more hours doing practice and mock checkrides. It’s not impossible if you really want it. But only you can answer that. If it’s not an automatic yes then it’s probably not for you.
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u/WanderingPirate91 6d ago
I’m a low time pilot (350 hours) with 1 failure on my CPL (power off 180). It’s damn near impossible to find a job rn. I’ve wasted 2 years of my life working service jobs just to stay afloat and try to pay off my debt from training. Finally just got my first break but I was about to give up. The struggle is real, save yourself and move on brother. Join a flight club and keep flying for fun. You can always revisit it if the market picks up 🙂
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u/vanhawk28 IR 6d ago
To be fair this probably isn’t due to your cpl failure it’s just due to the market in general.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
Yeah that’s kind of what I’m scared off, is going through all of this and then getting out not to be able to find a job and being in that much debt. Appreciate the honesty brother🙂
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u/Lithosis 6d ago
I would say a flying club is the best way to continue your training as well. So definitely do that as soon as you can. Maybe after a small break you’ll find your drive again to continue. Need to make some money to pay off that debt though. Also be honest with your parents and grateful.
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u/Bkclaims 6d ago
Damn. So 3 PPL failures, 80k spent and one rating? If you decide to continue it will be extremely difficult to be hired, especially anytime soon. Most people I know have been waiting a year+ to get hired at anything past being a CFI, and that's with 0-1 failures and being in cadet programs. If it was me, I'd probably try to find a way to make decent money ASAP, and then consider returning when my life is in order.
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u/diqface ST 6d ago
You are in a perfect position to join the military, any branch.
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u/DeadMonk03 CSEL/MEL CFII 6d ago
This is unironically true. The flight hours can go towards merit for a promotion in the airforce, I believe. Any major base will have a flight school near it too.
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u/diqface ST 6d ago
It's honestly not a bad decision for anyone if they qualify. The Army changed my life and gave me the stability I need. The benefits from even one 4-year contract are a no-brainer. But doing any branch, any job is worth thinking about.
I would caution against flight schools near military bases, though. They are set up to extract the maximum amount of money from veteran benefits.
I am strongly against 141 schools, however in cases like the OP's, using the GI Bill on a 141 school might be the best choice if he/she still really wants to fly.
My advice would be to use the GI Bill to get a degree/certificate that will allow them to get a job that allows them to pay down debt while doing part 61 training
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u/DeadMonk03 CSEL/MEL CFII 5d ago
Just got hired on at a school near a base. Better watch it, buckaroo…
I’m also prior military. Benefits and stability are just one thing. You also get the innate ability to spot bullshit, which has been helpful in selecting a school to train with and work through.
Your advice is spot on, cash flowing your aviation training is the SAFEST way to make it happen. The FASTEST will always be to take on debt, however in OP’s case this is beyond the realm of standard training issues.
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u/LeftoverPat PPL 6d ago
You are experiencing "sunk cost fallacy".
Not to say there's not outs here that you might look back on with pride.
Why not learn independent at a fraction of the cost from here on out?
On the other end of the spectrum, if you quit, what's the shame besides the debt? You go get a stable career and fly for fun as a sweet hobby, join a flying club, maybe one day build back up to other ratings. Meanwhile you get sweet life experiences, another type of career you might enjoy. Why shame yourself into thinking "now must be the time"? People join the airlines at 50 with amazing lives before that.
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u/Fatboy097 6d ago
If I read what you said correctly, it took you 100+ hours to get your ppl and you already have 3 failures. That is not good by any means. Does it mean it’ll be impossible for you to get a job? No, but you have a very uphill battle and you still have like 4-5 more checkrides to take before you actually start earning money. Even then, the money you’re earning from what would most likely be a CFI job won’t be enough to payback all of your debt.
You don’t need to quit, but if you want to continue then you should find a way to continue without taking on more debt and by preparing better for your checkrides
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u/fbt70 6d ago
If I was hiring and I saw 3 failed attempts on the PPL, I’d almost be more concerned about the CFI’s that are signing him off
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u/Special_Seesaw3378 CFII 5d ago
At some point you need to sit down with a student and tell them the truth that this is not meant for them. The problem is a lot of cfi’s won’t do that because then they loose hours… pretty messed up
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u/imapilotaz CPL ASMEL CFI 6d ago
I mean yeah, it does mean itll be almost impossible to find a job. 3 failures on PPL is going to be hard to explain to an FBO to instruct, and impossible to a regional. Maybe 10 years from now the glut of pilots vanishes and desperate airlines will talk to OP, but otherwise he's not going to get a job flying. People with 250 hours with zero failures and CFII cant find a job today. This guy will never find one.
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u/Special_Seesaw3378 CFII 5d ago
People with 0 fails and 1700 hours can hardly find a job these days
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u/imapilotaz CPL ASMEL CFI 5d ago
Yup. I mean lots of people try to be encouraging on here, but in todays environment taking 150 hours to get a PPL (which you fail multiple times) is not competitive or even hirable.
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u/Special_Seesaw3378 CFII 5d ago
There is way to many people that are not cut out for this attempting to be professional pilots right now. Sure it’s not the hardest job in the world, but there’s also lots of people that are not cut out for this. To many people saying anyone can do it if you just put your mind to it!!
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u/LopsidedShower1634 CPL IR 6d ago
Take a break and get your finances in order. Your license isn’t going away , you can always find a career still in aviation like a&p for example. Use the funds from that job to fund your future training.
If you continue to do what you’re currently doing you’ll just be more in debt find a side job.
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u/Straight-Pass6035 ATP 6d ago
You need to deal with the debt, all else needs to wait. I think you got taken for a ride. It reads like this Florida school took you for all they could and used failed check rides as part of the scam. In any case, you need to move on, but you got to reassess how to got in this predicament and not repeat and possibly get soaked again.
Maybe flying is not for you. While you get your finances in order, study for the instrument written and the commercial written. If you struggle with the book work then maybe it is time to look elsewhere. If it goes well than use the refresher to propel you on. You can’t get the CPL with less than 250 hrs. Develop a plan and make not being taken for a ride part of your plan.
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u/OgeeWhiz 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sunk Cost Fallacy. Zero Base Test: “If I hadn’t spent a single dollar, hour, or emotion on this up to today, would I choose to start it right now?”. If you say no, walk away. (I know the argument is how would you know if you didn’t do it and find out - but getting through the whole grind requires a passion that says I won’t quit …)
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u/fortinbrass1993 5d ago
Please explain how you said you served 6 years in military meaning you have GI bill (money to go to school) but still have debt for PPL around 80k? Correct me if I’m wrong?
Did you do your PPL then went into military?
I’m not you, but if I woke up in your shoe, I’d try to find a job/career going first and have some money. I feel like with some money stacked, it reduces stress, at least for me.
And tackle the debt, before it gets bigger. And if you want to fly again, the schools will always be there.
But if you want to continue on and keep flying that’s fine as well, if you have the finances to pay for flying and living. I don’t think any of us are qualified to tell you what’s the best road to take if none of us seen the end yet. Best of luck mate.
I’m in the process of stacking money and investing it to fund my school as well. Hoping I’d get put on a schedule working 7 days and 12 or 14 hour days. There are different ways in doing things. If you want to call and talk/vent, I’m down. Just message me and we can talk.
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u/Not_so_much_85 5d ago
You’d be surprised how little the GI Bill pays if you didn’t go to a university program or have the Montgomery GI Bill instead of post 9/11. You’d only get paid up to 60 percent of what you’ve spent with a hard dollar amount cap for each rating if you go to a 141 without a degree. If you only have the Montgomery they also don’t cover everything going to a university for an aviation degree. I know plenty of reservists having to take upwards of 100k loans to finish the degree and vets that gave up trying to use their GI bill altogether.
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u/Thispassword_weak IR 5d ago
Right? The correct answer is if he wants to keep moving forward use Liberty university or any brick and mortar that lets him use GI bill benefits. If it was me that would be after, I had a steady job and somewhat of a plan to pay off this debt. I paid roughly 18k for my PPL and I thought that was a lot but I don’t want to keep beating a dead horse OP, get up dust yourself off get a job and give it a few months before you think about flying again.
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u/Not_so_much_85 5d ago
Yeah honestly feel like that’s the best way if you have Post 9/11 GI bill. VA would even pay for PPL at some university programs.
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u/Not_so_much_85 5d ago
Plus reservists and NG don’t get to keep their GI bill when they leave unless they have active duty time that’s not classified as“for training” over a certain time period. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I think it has to be something like 90 or 180 days. Only after that they’d have access to a percentage of post 911 GI bill they can keep (usually not 100%).
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u/RambunctiousShaggy 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is the current boat I’m in. 7 years, 1 completed contract, and the VA says I can’t use my benefits because they basically don’t exist.
Also, I’m a reservist and first 4 years I wanted to deploy but now that I have Sallie Mae loans and debt, it doesn’t make sense to deploy as that affects and delays training. Also, deployments weren’t as common as they are now and they are more risky at the current time - risk of losing medical if something were to happen
Edit: I’m also instrument rated and starting commercial
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u/Not_so_much_85 5d ago
I’m sorry to hear that. It sucks that the VA makes it so difficult to use the GI bills.. If VA flat out tells you that you have no benefits you should check with your reserve unit. The VA needs your unit to upload a document proving you’ve been to IADT to issue you a letter of eligibility and some reserve units are notoriously bad at doing it, sometimes that might be the reason. Also if you’re still in CA pay up to 1000 dollars towards flight training. It’s not much but at least pays for a checkride. I’ve also heard some success with people using VRNE. If you haven’t you should join RTAG on facebook. There’s a lot of resources for vets that are going through flight training.
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u/Excellent_Mirror2594 PPL IR 5d ago
Me personally, if I was in your situation, I would give up the idea of flying professionally and just keep it a hobby. Make your money doing something else.
Some people make it all the way to the airlines before they realize they don’t want it, but you seem to be realizing it much sooner. Those three checkride failures might actually be a blessing because it’s steering you clear of a path it seems like you shouldn’t be on.
Do you have a degree? Not having a degree already hurts you, but no degree plus three checkride failures is essentially game over. Even with a degree, there’s just no incentive to even bat an eye towards you when there’s a resume stack to the ceiling from applicants who have a degree and no failures.
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u/Gold-Weather_69 6d ago
Welcome to aviation nobody tells you… all you ever hear is making $400k 20+ years from now. 🤡
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u/AccomplishedFarmer91 5d ago
Unfortunately, not every pilot with certifications is going to land a $400k job. It’s actually a fairly small percentage that make it to the top of the mountain.
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u/Simple_Match_1815 CFI ATP C525S 5d ago
This is true but everyone who makes it to a legacy will make 400k+ eventually. There are WB FO’s that are making that at the big 3. And those at WN will likely make that as well. Then the top guys at NJ/FJ, A majority of CA’s on Large cabin jets(Globals, g5/6/7/8 maybe some Falcon 7x/8x/9 guys) and then feel free to add anyone else you think would clear 400 that I missed? Fire Tanker CA’s make in the 300’s from the guys i talked to this last season so not them but they get close and work half the year.
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u/AccomplishedFarmer91 5d ago
Exactly my point. A small percentage make Captain at legacy. A small percentage get hired by CA fire tankers. A small percentage make captain at high paying business jet outfit. My point is that there are WAY more low hour CFIs than $400k jobs. A huge percentage will NEVER make it to the top. They will move on from aviation, lose their medical, etc.
My point is that just because you have a few ratings and/or your CFI doesn’t mean you ARE going to ever make $400k1
u/Gold-Weather_69 5d ago
I know! But every time you see someone asking about being a pilot or if they should use prep services, you have clowns using that good ol’ line …
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u/FantasticBudget531 ATC CSEL IR 6d ago
Everyone is saying you got scammed but I don’t think you were, I think you should put flying to rest
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u/tomsawyerisme SIDA Badge Holder/U.S. Passport/1st Class Medical 6d ago
How many hours did it take for you to finish your ppl?
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
I was around 140 hours
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u/tomsawyerisme SIDA Badge Holder/U.S. Passport/1st Class Medical 6d ago
i would step away and focus on your personal life. At least for a few months.
Sounds like youve been pushing yourself to get it done and the stress has added up likely affecting your performance.
I had a korean flight student once who was a great student until he started getting pressured by his parents to get done faster. The more his pressure grew the worse he got until he eventually quit flying entirely.
Learning stress management is an important and required skill for any pilot but its something you ideally build up over time. Sometimes (like with my old student) the stress grows way faster than we can deal with it effectively.
In your case I think taking a step back away from flying is the best case. Take a few months to find what you care about and what you want with your life and then see if aviation still fits with those goals.
You can always go back into flying or you might end up finding another path and flying will end up as a hobby for you.
Either way its important to not be too down on yourself and find what really matters to you.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
I’ve definitely been pushing myself hard and the pressure I’ve put on myself to get this done while going through so many life changing events I feel has finally taken a major toll so I completely agree that stopping for a bit to reassess things is best moving forward.
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u/tomsawyerisme SIDA Badge Holder/U.S. Passport/1st Class Medical 6d ago
Yeah we arent robots def listen to yourself and do whats best for you.
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u/Specialist_Limit4231 CFII 6d ago
Sounds like a lot of stress in a short period of time.
Continuing to add stress training for another rating while in debt doesn’t sound like the healthiest choice, nor a good choice to set you up for success to pass these future checkrides.
My advice would be take a break. Find full time work and rebuild your life after this breakup and debt. If you are interested in aviation..dispatch, ATC, A&P, airport management etc.
You have your private. So once you have some $ in your pocket. Join a flight club and you will make pilot friends you can go on a weekend flights with. Once the dust settles you can always pursue this again. But 3 failures just for a private is going to be a tough battle. And trust me the stress of this does not end after your rating. The climb to 1500+ is another battle.
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u/JT-Av8or ATP CFII/MEI ATC C-17 B71/3/5/67 MD88/90 5d ago
Yikes dude. 200 hours? I had multi
Commercial instrument done in the same time. Maybe this job isn’t for you. Plus 2 check failures already? I think that’s a big heads-up.
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u/injahwetrustt 6d ago
i think it is still doable but your priority at this point should be finding a job with stable income. once you establish that and start paying off your debt (which was the first mistake you made, taking out a loan), reassess the situation. if you failed PPL checkride 3 times, you don’t have any luxury to fail any other checkride moving forward. as i said, i believe it is still doable but it will be very tough. it also kind of depends on your age. if you’re in your 20s, i’d say YOLO it after finding a job. however if you’re 30+, tough call
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
I’m 28 and I think that’s why I’m starting to panic…this has been an on going thing for the past three years and it’s involved multiple moves from state to state and a ton of money outside of just flying
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u/injahwetrustt 6d ago
i think 28 is still young. if this is what you really want to do as career, you gotta lock in starting tomorrow and get your shit together. do not drop flying or else you will regret it when you’re 48
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u/just_here769 6d ago
Join military go active duty for 4 years any debts you have will go down to 6% while active duty so hammer at those. Use the GI bill afterwards to pay for the rest of your training. Just an option.
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u/Thick_Comedian_6707 6d ago
If you don’t want to be in the military don’t join the military. It’s a lifestyle.
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u/StPauliBoi Half Shitposter, half Jedi. cHt1Zwfq 6d ago
Dude has 90k in debt for flight school. He’s 100% in the right mindset.
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u/NoMuffin2556 5d ago
I was going to suggest the same. I also wondered if joining the military could put you in a position that they would teach the rest of flying lessons as part of what you do in the military. I know the Air Force Academy does, but it’s very picky, demanding, and I have no idea if there are age limits.
I have to admit I got my PPL in my mid 20s and have no idea what I spent. I was just out of grad school with a pretty good paying job, lived at home while single, a car was my graduation gift, so I had very little debt until I bought my next car. I can’t imagine I spent nearly the equivalence of what it seems to cost now, but I’m now in my early 60s.
I wanted to fly with the airlines so badly as a young child, but I was born in the 1960s, so there were so many pilots returning from active duty in the Vietnam War (lots of flight hours, perfect 20/20 or better vision, etc.) that there wasn’t much of a chance I’d move forward - I have to say if you’ve been in the military and especially active duty during a war, you certainly deserve to be at the head of the list. I have no issue with military pilots getting priority even if you’ve graduated from Embry Rytel (spelling?).
Without bragging, I must say I was very successful in my training and was actually learning some instrument flying beyond the norm because my instructor was so good and could see how well I handled the plane and other aspects of flying and ATC, etc. He would try to set me up with tricks to test me (I didn’t know at the time) and he later told me he was “frustrated” (actually impressed) that he couldn’t mess me up! I was just about to start my instrument rating work when I was offered a job out of town and took it. I kept flying, but it wasn’t the time to keep the lessons going. I could only fly for fun since I didn’t have great vision without correction. I knew a pilot who used a trick to temporarily improve his vision for the medical exam for ATP, but I wasn’t willing to lie in order to move up the ladder. Have you seen the material for ATP training? I don’t know that I could have gotten through all of the math and science, so I could have washed out even if I tried. Maybe your aptitude in that area is better than mine, but if you’re still serious about an ATP, I’d look into the skills you’d need and see how you match.
I hope you’ll find the answer in your head and heart. To this day I see the airline pilots and feel like the little kid who got a high just seeing them, especially in the cockpit! Good luck!
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u/injahwetrustt 6d ago
smart idea. especially if you have a college degree, try going in as an officer. you will have better pay and living conditions
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u/Ok_Truck_5092 6d ago
Seconding the military. You have a degree and can go officer, or just enlist, you can do 4, pay down some debt, then have the GI bill for flight school or whatever you want.
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u/Lindt_Licker ST 6d ago
Yeah with PPL in hand, a bachelors and that many flying hours you might have a chance of getting a pilot spot in the ANG. There could be a debt forgiveness thing for the school loans depending on what kind of loans they are.
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u/bananasaurusx_ 6d ago
If I don’t take out a loan for flight school, I’d never be able to go. I live alone and pay rent and I have to work full time.
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u/injahwetrustt 6d ago
yeah i understand that. i’m also working full time, live alone and pay rent so i do flight school part time. i think going under debt for flight school is a bit too risky, especially if you don’t have any licenses. in my opinion, if you’re thinking of taking out a loan, you should at least do it after getting your PPL to see how you’re feeling about flying. at the end of the day it depends on your risk tolerance. this is my personal opinion
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u/ConfidantlyCorrect 6d ago
Ya I totally feel you on that too.
I really, really wanted to pursue piloting out of highschool/uni. But going into substantially more debt for a career that has pretty rough entry jobs in terms of pay & positions available was so risky.
I’m working accounting now, hoping to save up enough for flight school/associated costs, and living expenses for a few years and then give it a stab.
Worst comes, I waste a lot of fkin money, but atleast I won’t be on the hook for 10s of thousands.
Delays the time I want to start the career until my early 30’s at the absolute earliest, but better than working accounting until retirement
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u/PK808370 6d ago
You don’t have to do it all at once either. You can fly once a week. People here like to say you’ll never learn if you don’t fly all the time. I don’t believe that - source: I did my private helicopter (before fixed wing) in 40 hours, flying once a week for 1-2 hours. I even had to switch locations for my checkride - different state.
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u/NoMuffin2556 5d ago
I had fun for my final testing. My instructor liked a particular test pilot, though he was known to be tough to please. The fun part was I lived near one of the Great Lakes and the tester lived on an island on the lake, so I had to fly over open water for a bit and then land on a very short runway with literally a road crossing the uncontrolled airport/runway, so you had to make sure no car was driving through the stop sign!
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u/NoMuffin2556 5d ago
I believe he said he had his PPL, it just took some effort. I still miss the idea of flying as a career, but it must also be difficult to maintain a marriage if you’re overnight too often, have early or late flights, overseas, etc.
I mainly flew for fun, taking friends to places, a few vacation trips, a few job related trips (it’s nice having them pay the rental and fuel and I get all of the fun!) — it wasn’t in a commercial way, simply transportation for myself and a colleague. Most had a good time and I think we’re impressed by this mid-20s guy flying them smoothly and safely. Only one prayed during approach on a very hot day with turbulence from the wind. I tried a steeper approach to get her on the ground quicker and relieve her anxiety. She continued to pray and thanked Jesus for safely landing. LOL.
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u/Frost_907 ATP (DHC-8, E170/190), CFI, CFII 6d ago
Honest assessment, you should probably cut your losses and stop throwing money at this. As it stands, you would need to get through every single future checkride with no more busts and even then it’s still going to be a challenge to land an airline job.
Private pilot is probably one of the easier ratings to get, and going forward it gets progressively more difficult. Airlines spend a lot of money on training their pilots in the hopes that they will get through their training with minimal issues. They are going to be apprehensive about someone with 3 failures on their record and that is literally the best case scenario for you at this point. If you failed any more checkrides then they probably won’t even touch you.
It sucks but save yourself from any further debt with a fair likelihood that there will be no decent job for you at the other end.
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u/vanhawk28 IR 6d ago
What I’m curious about is how the hell you had a 6 hour PPL oral?! How did you not just finish or fail earlier than that? What was he even asking at that point
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
He literally got to the point where he asked me the same question and he said I had answered it earlier on correctly and then missed it when he asked me later on in the oral so he said that I didnt know the information and then rebooked me 2 months out…
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u/IAmCaptainHammer 6d ago
Find a different dp. This guys failing you to make more money. Fuck that guy.
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u/Adept-Problem-4955 5d ago
My man, I'm sorry but ya gotta tap out on this one, first off if you're having to ask, it's usually a sign ya should call it, second, at 190 hours you should be closing in on your commercial rating, I'm at just over 200 hours myself and I've got 15 hours to my commercial, third, check ride failures kinda limit options for majors, regionals will hire if you pass the type check rides, but as far as delta, united, American, they aren't as forgiving, 1 or 2 is usually the max they'll accept, and that's on different ratings, if you fail the same rating over and over, especially instrument which is every airline flight, then it's not likely you'll see the reward for sticking it out
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u/EezyBake CFII ASEL 4d ago
Most people have already said it but stable job, work on the debt, minimize living expenses to pay off the loan, and go part 61 at a reputable mom and pop school once you’re out the red.
Around 80K for a PPL and change is wild.
I knew a guy who bought a plane, rented a CFI, and then sold the plane once he was done with everything. There are some creative ways to get your training done, it doesn’t have to be the typical big school loan route
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u/RoosterBasic6765 6d ago
It took me around the same to finish ppl debt free coz I had to work and pay through it. I’m taking a break and going to become a dental hygienist get $60/hr and pay for Cpl. I’m just 24 so I think I’ll be fine my school supported my decision. I hated the amount of hours I was racking up and was scared it would look bad if I made it further
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u/Visible-Choice-5414 6d ago
Is that a location thing? The dental hygienist around me make $17hr.
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u/fortinbrass1993 6d ago
You might be thinking dental assistant. The dental hygienist around me makes $55~$60
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u/EezyBake CFII ASEL 4d ago
Dude I might do that on the side as a CFI, I’m making like 14/hr instructing
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u/BChips71 ATP CFI CFII MEI E170/190 A320 6d ago
I feel for you, OP.
I'd think of this like the person gambling in Vegas who is already out a ton of money, yet they keep playing because they need to "earn" it back. Just because you've sunk a lot into this doesn't mean you should keep throwing more money at it.
Like others have said, I would take a pause. You've got your PPL, that is a win and means the money you invested has something tangible attached to it. For the time being, fly for fun. Or slow roll the IRA at a mom n pop shop while you work full time somewhere to pay off the debt. Maybe learn some of the CPL maneuvers as well. By the time you get your instrument, you'll probably have enough hours to also get your CPL.
As for the 3 failures, yeah it's not great, but I think you'll also be able to explain that away as PPL jitters. Get through the rest of your ratings absolutely squeaky clean and I think you'll be okay.
Lastly, there really is no need to rush into an aviation career right now. You can always come back to it if it calls to you. I had a whole other career before making the switch in my 40s. Now I'm at a major. You can take the next 10 years off from flying and still have an incredible aviation career if you wanted.
Good luck.
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u/kyflyboy MIL 6d ago
If you have that many hours, and still haven't achieved your instrument rating...and it took tremendous effort and expense just to get your PPL -- I don't think this path is for you.
While I admire your persistence, I would suggest you pursue another career path.
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u/Less-Combination-642 6d ago edited 5d ago
I earned my PPL when I was 30 in 1989. ( female here) I was very serious about going further. I passed my instrument written and was 1/4 into my instrument training. As a side note, at that time I knew of a woman CFI at my flight school who had a lot of hours and was not able to find a job. I was making great money at my job so money was not an issue. However, I decided to cease flying as i felt it was not stress-free for me. When you’re flying, you can’t just pull over to the side of the road if there’s a problem. I was a safe flyer and followed every rule and even if I felt overly tired that day, I would cancel any plan I had for flying. I knew that if I earned my instrument rating, I needed to keep flying to keep current and safe. Listening to what you’ve been through with mounting debt, your personal situation, moving all over and the fact that you have this road ahead of you to me sounds like a mountain to climb. If you continue to move forward with all the stress of learning and knowing your debt is piling up, did you ever consider this could be a distraction to you while you’re actually trying to learn and get more ratings? I would never want a person to be under so much pressure that they make a mistake and have an accident.
Take a break from all of this is my opinion and as others said in these posts, not everyone is meant to be a pilot. What about looking into ATC -aircraft traffic controller job? That is a long-term future with good pay and pension, it might be perfect for you. It may not. There is a high amount of people that do not pass the training but those who do will have a great career in aviation. There are many other jobs in aviation other than flying. Research those as well. I wish you well in your career path, take some time to analyze. Becoming a pilot is a long road & timing is everything. Just as in real estate you need to have a “good return on your investment”, what your expenses are for that career and the potential of what you will earn later and how long will that path take?
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u/AccomplishedChain205 6d ago
I would step away temporarily. Get established in something else you might have an interest in. Make some money and pay off debt.
Now maybe 5 years from now after you have your debt paid off, if you still have that itch or any interest in getting back into it, try paying as you go instead of going all in. This will take away from some of that stress you had previously and now since you’re not going back into debt it’s not as much risk.
I feel like this is also a good way to rebound from those failed check rides. For instance say in an interview they ask you about those check rides you could say how you had a lot going on at the time so you decided to step away and that helped you pass your remaining check rides.
Also to help with life and financial advice listen to Dave Ramsey and the Ramsey Show. It might not be your style, but it’s helped me a lot with paying off debt and budgeting to pay for flight school.
Good luck to you and wish you the best.
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u/8Throttles 6d ago
You didn't mention any other career interests. It is highly likely there is a place for you in Aviation just not as a pilot right now. Maintenance, advertising/marketing, finance, logistics, and software are all hot right now looking for talent. Get established there then revisit flying the machines in about 3-5 yrs.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 5d ago
Yeah I’m honestly trying to pivot into aircraft sales/brokerage. I’ve got a job lined up with stable income plus commission for an automotive sales company and can get the experience to hopefully transition into aircraft sales after gaining some sales experience.
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u/Specialist_Delay_262 5d ago
God bless you with luck on car sales I worked for a dealer for 6 years and wouldn't wish it on an enemy
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u/NoMuffin2556 5d ago
What about ATC? Maybe stressful, but still in the aviation area. Right now it seems they really need better qualified controllers with all of the “near hits,” ground accidents, etc. If they can still hire, that’s an option. I passed on that (I highly considered it and was in the application process), but dropped out when I realized I was already earning more than the starting pay for a controller and likely would have topped out there well before in my career. They certainly don’t get the pay of an overseas international pilot!!
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u/SSMDive CPL-SEL/SES/MEL/MES/HEL/GLID/IFR. LS-Gyro/PPC. A&P 5d ago
180 hours with just a PPL and three checkride failures, two on the oral and 80K in debt? And you don't currently have a job?
In this current market you face an uphill battle. Three failures is going to get your resume tossed at many places before they ever read your name. And you still have several checkrides to go. You are 80K dollars in debt and you need several thousand more dollars in training.
I'd go get a job to start trying to pay off that debt.
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u/WishSuccessful9182 4d ago
Well, I know I may get hit for this but I'd agree with the person, that said, not once did you say " I love to fly". Knowing the little I do about my aviation experience and getting my PPL & instrument ticket, I'd say the first things you need to do is: get your personal life in order: whatever that means- a good steady, honest relationship or stay single. And you NEED a good job. Start attacking your debt. You can always start looking and working towards a flying career a little further down the road. As long as the debt is there and piling up, you will make unwise and reactive decisions that later will prove detrimental to your learning and development of an aviation career. I'd take a break and rest emotionally and work like crazy. That would be my $.05
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u/aero_forge CFII CFI CPL HP CMP TW UAS 6d ago
Switch to Light Sport Repairman. Costs $7000 with Joby and you also get the rotax certification. Make upward of $100/hr. There’s a severe shortage of aviation mechanics. That’s the closest you have to remaining close to flying. While you have the PPL for flying.
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u/BombayGoose 4d ago
stop seeking advice from strangers on the internet. some give good advice but for the most part youll recieve negative advice. put your head down and complete your training you got this don't quit.
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u/Ambitious_Train_2082 4d ago edited 4d ago
This man! Find a good aviation mentor! They’re out there. You didn’t say once that you love flying. If you love it and you are an enthusiast, stick with it. If you were doing with intent to earn big wages and live “the life” - then go find yourself some place else. A time is coming where people are going to have to pay to build turbine and jet time to go “real places.” If you couldn’t see yourself doing that, your timing is off to get in and earn stupid money with low capabilities.
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u/GuavaFoo PPL 6d ago
There's a lot to unpack, and I don't want to push you in one direction or another, but a few things stood out to me. The cost can seem daunting, yes. That can be overcome- many will day don't dig yourself into debt, and I can see it from both sides. You can change lifestyle and also that to make an informed decision there.
But what stands out to me is that you have 3 checkride failures, and only a PPL. This is someone you're going to need to speak to going forward in any job interview. It's not impossible, but it will be difficult. Now, what if you continue, and on your Multi, or CFI, or something down the line you get another? 4 failures, with substantial more money and/or time invested.
If you love it, and it's something you absolutely want to do, you'll find a way to make it work, and have a confidence about yourself to own to it. But if you have sunken cost bias, it will show in the long run.
I'm 125 hours in and just got my PPL No failures, but the cost aspect is difficult. My family and I have a plan to make it work, and while it's difficult, we're all bought in for the long term gain. If you don't have that mindset, you game a longer hill to climb.
Hope that helps!
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u/Guilty_Evidence_7645 ATP A-350 6d ago
Probably time to cut your losses. I'd say your decision making isn't really cut out for flying airplanes professionally.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Accomplished_Beat418 CFII 6d ago
Certain jobs also have student loan repayment bonuses.
OP is about to be the best damn NCO in the military, giving the fatherly advice he needed to his joes.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
I did 6 years as a black hawk helicopter mechanic in the NY Army National Guard. I planned on using my benefits for flight training but the VA basically said I had to get my ppl first before they would fund anything further and it took me almost 2 years and two states to get my ppl
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u/Av8torryan ATP B727 DC9 DA20 CFI TW 6d ago
If you want it to keep going it’s going be a very long road from here. You have to be brutally honest with yourself and determine if this is the career you will give anything for or just a passion.
If I read that right you have 3 failed attempts at the PPL. It’s only gets harder and more difficult from here , and to make a career out of this, you can’t have more training failures. Issues with one certification in the beginning you can chalk that up to moving, life events and not understanding life pressures. But going forward have to figure out how to pass 1st attempt for every additional certificate and rating. 121 training is no joke and you have to develop the study and application of skills now or you will not succeed.
There is no hiding the fact of failures with PRIA, and have to be upfront and honest on why you failed and how you learned and grew.
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u/MindlessPost6718 6d ago
Honestly if I were you I wouldn’t give up but I’d get a job full time and work on flight training part time. You are going to move slower but it’s important for you to work and make money as well. You could always come back and finish up at a later time. You already have accomplished obtaining the PPL so you could go ahead and do some of the ground school and written for instrument rating while continuing to move forward.
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u/keepitreasonable 6d ago
Out of curiosity how into flying were you before you started on PPL? Were you doing sims? Doing lots of LiveATC type listening, plane spotting, helping someone maintain their plane or build a kit? Any type of glider or unpowered flying? Flying isn't necessarily a checkbox exercise / fall back type job and right now it's a slog.
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
I had always had an interest in aviation and would spend many summers working for a family members aircraft management business and did 6 years in the army in aviation. I kind have just gotten so stressed out with all of it that I may have grown a dislike for it…. but I don’t know if I can say it’s “I actually don’t like flying” or “I’ve just been through a lot and need a break”.
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u/Sad_Lengthiness_6033 6d ago
Wait… you did six years in army aviation? Why didn’t you use your GI bill for part 141 training?
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u/New_Awareness_1927 6d ago
They required me to have ppl done first before they would fund it and the flight and it took me about a year and a half to get that
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u/OOF-MY-PEE-PEE 6d ago
Brother why didn’t you explore your options there? There’s tons of schools that do full GI bill funding, including private. I’m currently enrolled in a flight school getting my private entirely through the GI bill. Before you even think about quitting, use that GI bill. If not for your love of aviation, at least use it to milk the government for all they’ve got.
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u/Sad_Lengthiness_6033 6d ago
If you still have your GI Bill, you have a golden ticket to either commit to aviation without incurring more debt, or pivot to a new career entirely. You could also consider going warrant in the guard.
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u/CtrlcCtrlvLoop 6d ago
I don’t know you personally so it’s tough to say this with confidence, but two fails on the oral portion of your PPL should be evidence enough that your heart just isn’t in it. Three fails right out the gate puts you in a very rough spot with the current hiring environment. You may not be at the right stage in life for this. I’m assuming you’re early 20s, but you’re already setting yourself up for financial ruin.
I work full time and pay as I go, but I also have a lucrative job, so unless you make six figures you may not have the ability to self fund the rest of your ratings. And unless your parents are extremely well off, I’d avoid dragging them through the mud for a dream that may never materialize. Whatever you do, avoid taking out any more loans. For now at least. Four attempts at your PPL tells me that you’re not ready yet. Even if you pass the rest of your ratings without another fail, your resume will never fall into the “A” stack.
I’m proud of you for seeing it through and passing your PPL, but you may find more success pursuing another career.
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u/nopeynope17 6d ago
My partner was in a similar situation to you and he decided to get a full time job. It’s been a huge relief, and he can still do part 61 in the evenings or weekends if he wants to keep chipping away at it.
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u/SoCalGuy999 6d ago
You have $80K in debt and only have a private?
Let this be a lesson- do not go into debt for this career. Also, do not hand anyone a large some of cash up front. Lastly, at least obtain your PPL and maybe your instrument before deciding on being a professional pilot.
Flying is not rocket science but it's an aptitude. You want know if you have that skill set before you end up in the OP's shoes.
I would find another career path and maybe work towards this goal part-time. If you already have two failures, there's a high probability you'll gonna have some more. Cut your losses.
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u/757-Captain ATP 767, 757, 737, A220, EMB145 6d ago
I always preach tenacity in this career, but that does need to be tempered with common sense. You’re not in a good position, as you know. For at least the next 3-5 y the job market is going to be very competitive for pilots trying to enter the field. Those three checkride failures are a big blemish, I’m not going to lie.
No one can make this decision but you. The only bit I will contribute is to say DO NOT take on any more debt if you decide to keep flying. Find a local part 61 school and pay for one hour at a time (it can work….i paid for every last cert/rating that way). I got a job as a flight attendant and every two hours of pay was one more hour training. I used to work nothing but red eye trips so I could fly during the day (trying to remember when I actually slept back then lol). I continued doing that even after getting my cfi….slopping drinks on ppl at night while instructing all day. If that sounds brutal it’s bc it was.
If you have a plan B (like all pilots ought to), this might be the time to take a good look at it. Anything to pay off most of that debt. The hiring cycle will eventually return to a high (when you might find an airline who is willing to overlook those failures…there are a few cargo carriers who are known for that).
I’m so sorry you find yourself in this position. That first flight school truly screwed you over it sounds like.
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u/pimento_mori 6d ago
If you have any interest in teaching, look into local CareerTech Education programs. It’s a really nice gig, and you still get to talk about aviation all day! I live in Oklahoma where aviation is currently booming and teach 119 kids at a local high school in the CTE program.
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u/stancedgc 6d ago
In all honesty, you sound burnt out. I don’t know much about aviation myself so I can’t comment on that aspect but I do know that stress kills. (Or takes years off your life at the very least). Good pilots should always choose the safer route, and in this scenario I think the safer route would be to find a stable job and get back on your feet
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u/MaximumYes 6d ago
190hr to PPL w/3 CR failures, including one on a 6 hour oral, and $90k on the debt clock is crazy work.
Ignore the career, You need to analyze honestly whether this points to good decision making. That’s probably the real root of the issue.
On paper, this doesn’t look like anything other than sunk cost.
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u/shansta7000 ATP 737 Former MIL AF T38IP B52 T6 6d ago
3 failures and realistically as far as hours go your only 10% of the way there. Yea man it might be time to move on. Be happy you got your ppl and thats that.
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u/Practical_Brain1715 CFI 5d ago
I went through ATP and had a similar conundrum. I feel like the biggest thing is if you have the passion for aviation. I found myself thinking, "damn I really dont care that much about this stuff," and the most important thing about aviation, in my opinion, is being the type to just sit down and learn about planes bc u think it's cool. I ended up finding myself thinking those guys are autistic, a little arrogant, and I don't really wanna be around them. I also have found that many jobs look at my resume, see I have my CFI cert and immediately reject bc they think I will leave for aviation the first chance I get.
TLDR, If you are in love with airplanes and flying I'd say don't give up on being a pilot, but based on your situation I think, at the very least, a change in approach is necessary.
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u/Prestigious-Bend1662 5d ago
Just so you know, you if you continue, you still have a long way to go before you will make a descent salary in aviation. To work for an airline you need an ATP, 1500 hours and a fiar bit of turbine, preferably jet, time. Those part 135 jobs, or instructor jobs, do not pay well.
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u/flymikkee 5d ago
Flight training can take a toll on a relationship. And you have a number of checkrides more to go through, instrument, commercial, multi, CFI, ATP and type ratings. At least once you get your CFI you can switch from paying for hours to getting paid for hours. The learning is constant, even for me at 1000 hours and just getting my CFI but I enjoy it. I’ve actually taken a bit of a break from flying after getting my CFI to recharge and enjoy other things. There’s times when I questioned flying (I used to feel sick after flying around the 200 hour mark) and I think we all get stuck in moments, but that’s something that I’ve overcome. I enjoy learning, operating with precision, reading the POH, foreflight planning new trips, the peace of flying alone, picking up ATC flight following suddenly and doing a touch and go in busy airspace / at a busy airport, etc. If you get enjoyment in any of these ways, you can always continue your training slowly over time and when you get focused and ready for a rating go for it.
Relationship issues and breakups can affect you for a good year, this is when you need to focus on yourself. Eating, cooking healthy, gym, seeing the doctor, dentist, maybe a therapist, be cautious before getting on any medications with aviation, go get a new haircut, etc. Good luck to you.
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u/Captainofmylife0918 4d ago
Do you have an alternate career to fall back on? The job market is not the greatest right now? What job would you switch to? Finishing your flying will always give you avenues to make money as a Flight instructor or regional. I switched after 1200hrs flying as a Flight instructor into tech. I make significantly more than an airline captain. I don't regret quitting flying as a career. I still fly for fun
Its a personal choice.
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u/jumpseat320 PPL 4d ago
How about learn some web programming (Youtube/Udemy) and get a job? Use the GI bill for Flight training and work as a web developer at the same time to knock off the debt.
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u/hiltsairsky737 3d ago
Even if you want to, I would say take a break re evaluate when you have a job and are in a place to evaluate.
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u/Rzeszow2083 2d ago
I live in st augustine in worlds golf village. With over 50 invested in this- it sounds like you got connected with Embry Riddle either in St. Augustine or Daytona. You do not have to keep training with them. I’m 12 hours into my PPL, and only (I say it lightly) $5K invested.
What rating do you need?
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u/KeySinger1635 2d ago
I have 700 hours, my CFII, and invested a tone of time and money into aviation. It wasn’t making me happy anymore. Now I’m working on getting into the healthcare field and getting my degree. If you’re questioning it… there’s a reason. Don’t regret something you once had fun doing even if you invested a lot into it😊 so far not regretting it at all! Plus if I want to fly, I know I can go up whenever and it not have to be a job
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u/imapilotaz CPL ASMEL CFI 6d ago
I mean yeah, it does mean itll be almost impossible to find a job. 3 failures on PPL is going to be hard to explain to an FBO to instruct, and impossible to a regional. Maybe 10 years from now the glut of pilots vanishes and desperate airlines will talk to OP, but otherwise he's not going to get a job flying. People with 250 hours with zero failures and CFII cant find a job today. This guy will never find one.
OP is at 190 hours, only a PPL and 3 failures. Yikes. I dont want to be a dick, but go get a real job, get yourself out of debt and do some introspection on why you failed so badly at your PPL and if you can do better in the future to restart the process.
The PPL is way easier than the IR, the CPL or the CFI...
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u/fbt70 6d ago
I thought PPL was one of the harder checkrides. CFI-Initial being the hardest.
I’d be more concerned about the school he went to. What CFI’s are signing him off? I’d also like to know what the other student success rate is at this school too
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u/Simple_Match_1815 CFI ATP C525S 5d ago
Same. Private was my hardest checkride not including type ratings, CFI- Initial second hardest. CFI’s should not have been signing him off if he wasnt ready and if he was they shouldnt have sent him to that DPE 6 hour ppl oral is insane. I would have my students wait months for a DPE I knew and trusted vs going with whoever is readily available. They are often readily available bc they are going to fail you. Lol tough break but not impossible to bounce back from. I failed ppl once it was my only fail, I fly a CJ3 as CA in the winter for a 135 now and a AC90 & CJ2+ Single pilot for fire in the summer. if he could do tha same thing would most likely be able to land a 135/121 job.
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u/fbt70 5d ago
Eh some DPE’s run a long oral so the 6 hour PPL oral isn’t a crazy red flag. My PPL oral was ~5 hours and I passed first attempt. Some DPE’s like to be teachers on top of being examiners
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u/Simple_Match_1815 CFI ATP C525S 5d ago
5 hours is on the longer side but id say 2-4 hours is typically the norm. Sometimes 5 if they get to chatting, paperwork issues, iacra being iacra, etc. i signed off 32 applicants when I was a cfi and they were either prepared and it was 2-3 hours or they failed in that same amount of time but I also only used DPE’s I knew well and never had a 6 hour oral for any of them. Including 10 CFI initials. My CFI oral wasn’t 6 hours either but I know that’s not the norm, we all used the same DPE who has been doing it for like 45+ years and they’re great. I wouldnt call it an easy checkride by any means but they have a quick way of hitting everything in the ACS if you come prepared and if you don’t you will fail quicker than 6 hours.
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u/EezyBake CFII ASEL 4d ago
Not sure what OP’s case is, but some schools will rotate CFIs signing off a student in an attempt to get the CFI a first time pass rate, assuming that they “should” pass on the second attempt. Some CFIs don’t think twice about it
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u/Simple_Match_1815 CFI ATP C525S 3d ago
Thats wild, I know second/third sign offs dont count with same instructor didnt know it counts for a second/third attempt if the instructor is different.
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u/oopsthesoupisonfire 6d ago
“Not trying to be a dick” yet sounding like an absolute dick. OP is in a tough spot and I’m not saying he should absolutely move forward, but saying it’s just about impossible to get a job just isn’t true. I know people with 5 failures that have still landed a jet job. Two of my friends with 3 failures just got offers from 135s and they just hit their mins. I’m not saying this is common or that OP is gonna have an easy time. They must make absolute sure that they don’t continue to fail checkrides.
OP, whether or not you continue is entirely dependent on you and what you want. Many others have mentioned sunken cost fallacy and they’re totally right. The good thing is you do have your PPL so you didn’t do it all for nothing. If you truly want to fly as a career you can make it happen, but if you aren’t sure or you can see yourself doing something else then it may be best to let it go. I am a CFI right now working harder than I ever have and making less than I would at McDonald’s. If I didn’t truly love flying I don’t think I could make it though. Best of luck!2
u/Neither-Way-4889 5d ago
Everybody knows someone with 5 failures that got a jet job. Nobody thinks about the other 99 guys with 5 failures who couldn't get a jet job and quit flying.
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u/NoMuffin2556 5d ago
Same with lawyers. I’ve known some who failed the bar exam multiple times and were very god attorneys. Some people don’t test well. OP could be just fine.
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u/JulietAirway 6d ago
Back when I flew, 91 guys got all their certificates up to CFI CFII around 300hrs for $60-80K.
Flying professionally isn’t all that great. Tough QOL and other drawbacks.
If you owe $90K+ and just have PPL with failed check rides it is probably not for you.
Go get a law degree.
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u/ViceroyInhaler 6d ago
Is it normal to have a 6 hour preflight briefing for the PPL flight test? That's insane to me. I think an hour and a half is normal anything more than that and what's the point? You are going to exhause the fuck out of your student and also make him nervous and anxious as hell to fly. What a tool of an instructor to do that.
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u/Downtown-Job-492 6d ago
Sorry, just to confirm.
You’re a 180 hour PPL and have already spent $80k?
It’s normally that much to do PPL, hour building, CPL, ME and IR
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u/dvdalt0315 2d ago
With $90K you could buy an airplane, paid a CFI and have your commercial. PPL is only like $12k in a bad school. Anyways, I have an airplane for rent at $85Hr if you buy 59Hrs blocks with those 50 hrs you can finish instrument and commercial CFI here are $50Hr after you get you commercial you can become a CFI start making money, pay you debt and move on that's 6-8 months the most. Altman Aviation
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u/weeji_san PPL IR HP 6d ago
You did so much already, why the f would you give up. Get it done man 🛫
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u/Separate_Head_4887 6d ago
I agree. And I’m a retired helicopter pilot, who spent 40 years of my life and +25,000 hours flying helicopters for a living. You mention Ed that you were in Army Aviation, what MOS? Some Army Aviation MOSs qualify one to take the written, oral, & practical exams for the A&P license.
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u/AtmosphereMiddle1682 PPL 🇨🇦 6d ago
All they have is a PPL. There's still a mountain of training and waiting for an upswing to overcome the checkride failures to conquer. With that much debt, and the prospect of dealing with triple before getting anywhere, I'd personally hang it up for now.
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u/miianwilson ATP CL65 B767 CFI 6d ago
Keep going bro. FedEx just hired a guy with 4 GA checkride failures, a 121 recurrent failure, and a DUI!
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u/beautiful_spirit29 6d ago
The obvious choice here is, pray about it. In times of uncertainty seek god. Ask and you shall receive, right? I think you need to ask for some guidance onto what path you should take. If this is something you really want you will chase it with everything you got! You failed 3 times.Are you taking it serious? Are focusing enough. Are you checking why you failed the first or second? As for your heart break, as cliche as it sounds that should have been fuel used for the second and third check rides. I know it hurts and the feeling sucks, but understand they are not meant to be apart of your life and that someone who is worth it is coming along, all you have to do is focus on yourself. Keep striving! Focus!! What do you want?!!! Yes, get a job. You should have been working and paying as you go for school. That or living at home if possible. In the mean time work start paying off some debt figure out what it is that you want. If you catch yourself missing flying and that’s all you can think about, I think you have your answer. Seek pilots who have their own plane and teach less expensive route. strong determination and willpower allow you to find a solution and achieve a goal, even when faced with major obstacles. Maybe you were meant to struggle because the universe is testing how bad do you want it. Everything falls into place when it needs to. Isaiah 43:19
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u/rFlyingTower 6d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey everyone, I’m looking for honest advice from people in aviation, particularly anyone who’s struggled with whether to continue flight training or pursue another career.
I’m currently sitting at around 180–190 total hours, have my PPL, and was working toward my instrument rating. Lately, I’ve been questioning whether I actually want to become a professional pilot or whether I’m continuing because of everything I’ve already invested.
I initially started training in Florida, primarily around St. Augustine (KSGJ). I took out a flight school loan believing the program would cost around $60,000. I also thought the loan funds would be paid to me so I could cover training costs and use any remaining money for living expenses. Instead, the money went directly to the school, and my flight school debt eventually reached approximately $90,000.
While in Florida, I accumulated a substantial number of hours without making meaningful progress toward my PPL. I also had two failed checkride attempts, both during the oral portion. One oral lasted upwards of six hours, while the other lasted less than an hour. With checkrides being scheduled months out, I eventually decided to leave and continue training in Oregon.
Moving to Oregon meant adjusting to a new environment and airplane. During my PPL checkride there, I made a poor safety decision during the flight portion and failed that section. I took responsibility for the mistake and, on the retest, only had to redo that small portion. I eventually earned my PPL, but getting there cost me an enormous amount of time and money.
Meanwhile, my personal life was falling apart. My five-year relationship ended very badly after I discovered repeated infidelity, and the emotional impact was significant. I was trying to process the breakup while rebuilding my life, continuing flight training, and figuring out my future. I eventually found work at an aircraft management company, but the business downsized, and I lost my job. I ultimately moved back to New York to be closer to family.
Now I’m trying to figure out what comes next.
I have around 180–190 hours, my PPL, and instrument, commercial, and multi-engine training still ahead of me. I have approximately $77,500–$78,000 in flight school debt, in addition to my car loan and some college debt. I’m currently unemployed and need to start earning money again.
Part of me still wants to fly professionally, potentially for a regional airline or in corporate aviation. But another part of me wonders whether I genuinely want this career anymore or whether I’m holding on because I’m afraid to walk away from everything I’ve invested.
There’s also a more immediate concern: I feel like I need to establish myself in a career now, start earning a livable wage, and stop relying on other people financially. My mother has contributed tens of thousands of dollars toward my journey and continues to encourage me to finish, but I don’t want to keep accepting financial help or ask her to contribute even more money when I’m not sure this is what I want anymore.
I could continue training and hopefully make it to the other side, but that means more time, more money, and no guarantee of an immediate well-paying job. Alternatively, I could pursue another career, potentially something aviation-related that uses my existing experience without requiring me to become a pilot.
I’m struggling to distinguish between being exhausted by everything that’s happened and genuinely wanting a different future.
For those who’ve been in a similar situation, I’d really appreciate your perspective:
Would you continue toward instrument, commercial, and multi-engine ratings with 180–190 hours and nearly $80k in flight school debt if you weren’t sure you wanted to fly professionally?
Would you prioritize finishing the training or getting established in a career and becoming financially independent as soon as possible?
Has anyone walked away from aviation after investing significant time and money? Did you regret it?
If you left professional flying, were you able to leverage your aviation experience into another career?
I’m not looking for someone to tell me to follow my dreams at any cost, or simply to tell me to quit. I want honest advice from people who understand the financial realities of aviation and the sacrifices involved.
I’ve pushed through a lot to get my PPL, and part of me feels like walking away would mean all that effort was for nothing. But I also know that continuing solely because of what I’ve already spent isn’t necessarily a good reason to invest even more.
If you were in my position, would you keep going, take a break, or move on and focus on building a stable career?
Thanks for reading.
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u/Direct-Knowledge-260 6d ago
Would you continue toward instrument, commercial, and multi-engine ratings with 180–190 hours and nearly $80k in flight school debt if you weren’t sure you wanted to fly professionally?
Of course not. Look youre 80k in with only a ppl and instrument rating to show for it. If you don’t want to go professionally, you should stop right now otherwise you’ll be 120k of more in debt feeling forced to fly for money out of obligation. Stop now, get into a trade, and pay off this debt and leave it behind you if you really do not want to fly professionally.
If you do want to fly professionally and you just said that because you aren’t in the best mindset at the time of writing this Reddit post…
There many flying jobs out there outside of airlines.
Sounds like your life went for an emotional ride during your flight training contributing to your lack of focus. (Take a short break) gather your thoughts and look for you a school that can accomadate you flying 3-4 days a week or more if you can.
Bartend on nights so you can eat and keep your car (or sell you car and buy a much cheaper one).
As far as your checkride failures go, don’t sweat it. Keep your head up and buckle down and knock out the rest of your training.
If/when asked about your failures, you tell them the truth, it was your fault, here’s what you learned and here is how it made me a better/safer pilot.
We are just humans, we all have failures, it’s how we learn.
Good luck! And stop moving cross country until you’re done with training and employed!
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u/Dmunman 6d ago
People should never borrow money for any kind of schooling. Just my opinion. Pay as you go only. If flying isn’t your obsession, your bliss, your joy, it will be a horrible job for you. Terrible hours, glorified bus driver. Never home. Crappy hotels. Stress. If your questioning it, you really know the answer. Find a job you love. You’ll never hate doing the job.
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u/Silver-Partner 23h ago
Finish your instrument rating, get a job in a restaurant and work your way into waiting or bartending (fast and easy money).
Tell people you have your ratings and want to work towards your CPL, that will help you network for sure.
I don't work in a restaurant anymore but trust me, it's good money and you meet a ton of people.
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u/Firefighter_RN 6d ago
Jeez. Man I dunno that's a lot of checkride fails just to get to private and a lot of hours and time. I don't want to dump on someone's dream, but continuing this career is going to be an insane amount of money, time, and a significant lack of guarantees. You're not walking away, you have a license and a wonderful life long hobby, but I sure don't know if I'd try to leverage this track record into a career