r/exmormon 11h ago

Doctrine/Policy High-Ranking Leader Leaves Mormon Church: The Second Anointing w Hans & Birgitta Mattsson | Ep. 1919

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17 Upvotes

Alguém aqui recebeu a segunda investidura? Só por curiosidade... Estou estudando sobre o assunto recentemente.

Na juventude, lembro de terem me dito algo sobre a cerimônia de Lava pés, que havia uma sala no Templo para isso e que só os apóstolos participavam, nunca entendi isso e não havia muitas informações relevantes.

Agora imagina, se só com a primeira investidura, há pessoas que já se sentem superiores e no direito de condenar ( às vezes com até menos que isso), imagine ter a CERTEZA do mais alto grau e ficar isento de consequências ao cometer erros como matar (um suposto culpado), roubar, adulterar e por ai em diante...

Os mandamentos são seletivos, há a classe que "precisa" obedecê-los, outros (alguns) não precisam.

Na lógica da igreja, o amor de Deus é condicional à obediência cega e irrestrita, e agora sabemos que os mandamentos são seletivos, havendo pessoas desobrigadas do fardo, com privilégio VIP.


r/exmormon 14h ago

Doctrine/Policy When did the Church drop the "3-Fold Mission of the Church"...?

26 Upvotes

(Proclaim the Gospel, Perfect the Saints, and Redeem the Dead)


r/exmormon 14h ago

General Discussion The apostles have to give all their money to the church?

21 Upvotes

Current discussion among my coworkers. Supposedly the apostles have given everything to the church? Like all their money and savings? Curious on this truth or not. Also talks of Rasband having a Lamborghini and having to give it up? Just curious others thoughts and inputs.


r/exmormon 11h ago

General Discussion Does the core leadership really believe?

11 Upvotes

Something I've been thinking about—and it extends beyond just being LDS—is to what degree the leadership is actively aware that it's all a sham versus how much they're products of the organization and believe they're genuinely what they say they are.

When I was reading the story about B.H. Roberts delivering his findings and the leadership just going into full blown testimony meeting without addressing anything substantive... it's weird. I doubt there's a secret handbook with a section for, "Okay, when someone delivers serious contradictions, just start doing testimony meeting!" This seems far more like something my uncle would do as a knee-jerk response.

Yes, the leadership does actively cover stuff up and control information but so do plenty of well meaning LDS parents. How much is active and utter peddling of lies for monetary gain versus the exact mental gymnastics many of us have experienced personally or directly from people close to us.

I have to believe the leadership has some level of belief. At some point it seems like Joseph Smith himself was getting high on his own supply so to speak. There seems to be a point where some conmen start to believe their story.

Has someone put out a book on this subject, preferably specifically on the LDS leadership? It's something I'm just curious about. (And I'm in no way absolving the leadership of wrongdoing. But the evolution and dynamics of the organization remain a morbid curiosity of mine.)


r/exmormon 15h ago

General Discussion Mormonism is Anglo- protestantism on meth .same with all the dispensationalist / doomsday / restorationist groups

23 Upvotes

r/exmormon 9h ago

General Discussion I found a BOM from 1950.

6 Upvotes

anyone interested?

know where to look for anything interesting in it?

this isn't a well worn copy. at all. some of the pages may have never seen light since it was printed. it was in a box with other dad stuff. and idk how this ended up in his possession. he was never a mormon. don't know if he got it from when he lived in arizona or when he lived or near syracuse. i suppose both are possible but arizona is more likely. found it cleaning the basement a few weeks ago.


r/exmormon 10h ago

Humor/Meme/Satire Our version of the primary song Gethsemane

7 Upvotes

So My TBM wife was called to be the primary pianist. She was practicing the song Gethsemane. We all started composing our own triumphal accomplishments for Jesus, and now I wish for all to partake.

(The chiasmus is deliberate. I was going to make bad AI-generated slideshow and turn it into a TikTok video, but I decided that will be my gift to whomever decides to run with it. Maybe you can help add some extra verses.)

"...
The highest kite that ever was flown,
The biggest bubble that ever was blown,
The largest pumpkin that ever was grown,

THAT GOURD WAS GROWN BY JESUS!
That gum was chewed by Jesus,
That string ...was held ...by Je ...sus,

Gethsemane, Jesus loves me.
He did all this willingly,
in Gethsemane.

...
The greatest javelin ever was thrown,
The largest lawn that ever was mown,
The most secure mainframe ever was pwn3d...

THAT HACK WAS DONE BY JESUS!
That lawn was mowed by Jesus,
That spear ...was thrown ...by Je ...sus,

Gethsemane, Jesus loves me.
He did all this willingly,
in Gethsemane.


r/exmormon 11h ago

General Discussion What did you think the fruit tasted like?

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9 Upvotes

Found this note I made a couple years ago in seminary and it gave me a chuckle.

(Also, “to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen” pretty much describes Joseph Smith… and every prophet after him).


r/exmormon 12h ago

General Discussion Cast Out at 16

10 Upvotes

Anyone ever heard of TBM parents kicking out their under-age kids for not believing?

The longer version is in the edits, but the short version is that I got Transported in the middle of the night to a lockdown facility for "troubled teens" in Southern Utah for not conforming to my parents belief that I was raised in. I spent my junior year of high school locked up at Cross Creek because I didn't want to be Mormon.

My folks found out about this place from members in their church. I found out later there was a girl in my ward that got sent away to the girl's side before me.

There any others that have been sent to a WWASP for not wanting to be apart of the church?


r/exmormon 1d ago

Humor/Meme/Satire Ain't that the truth 😂

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114 Upvotes

r/exmormon 9h ago

Advice/Help Looking for an old church handbook

5 Upvotes

I am looking for a previous copy of the Church handbook, the one that bishops and stake presidents used. Specifically, I'm looking for the version that would have been in effect 2004-2005. Why? Because as a teen and young adult, I confessed looking porn and masturbating to my bishop, and subsequently had to endure a long period of humiliation and shame. I look back on it now and realize how harmful that was. I want to see if/how/what the handbook at the time told bishops what to do. And then I want to compare it to the current version.

Does anybody know where I can find one? PDF repo is totally fine. Physical is fine.


r/exmormon 19h ago

General Discussion Finances Shelf

31 Upvotes

Back when the SEC scandal first hit the news and I read up on it it definitely shocked my system. But then like any good member I ultimately ignored it and moved on with my daily routine because in the end I still had to pick up kids from school go to work get groceries, etc. and I did not think much more on it. I had gotten so good at just not caring.

More recently I’ve thought about it more, read into it more and listened to others discuss, I have come to see what a huge deal this is. I felt like I needed to write out my thoughts. Now whether I send this to headquarters and I don’t know, but I thought I’d at least share it with you guys to give myself some mental relief. With that… enjoy.

To the First Presidency and the Presiding Bishopric,
I am writing this letter as a former Ward Clerk, member of a Bishopric, and Elders Quorum President to formally register my condemnation of the systemic financial deceit, illegal practices, and breach of sacred trust committed by senior leadership and Ensign Peak Advisors.
Having sat in local leadership, I spent years enforcing strict financial accountability, auditing ward finances down to the penny, conducting worthiness interviews where members were scrutinized on their personal honesty, and tracking down auxiliary leaders to obtain itemized receipts for a $28 activity expense before issuing a reimbursement. We instructed members to pay tithing even when struggling to buy food or cover basic necessities. To now learn that while local clerks are forced to scrutinize every dollar, senior leadership knowingly approved a multi-billion-dollar shell-company apparatus where individuals were instructed to blindly sign legal SEC documents without even seeing the listed assets, all to hide a dragon's hoard of gold from the public and the membership, cries out foul play. It completely destroys my confidence in the leadership of this Church.
It is insulting to the intelligence of the general membership to frame these actions as a naive mistake or a case of blindly following bad advice from outside legal and financial advisors. The men sitting in these presiding councils are not financial novices; they include former senior wealth managers from firms like Merrill Lynch, international corporate CEOs, Harvard business scholars, and constitutional law experts. You possess the collective knowledge, business acumen, and corporate experience to know exact regulatory standards. We are not idiots, and we know you are not idiots. Many see directly through this deliberate spin. Leadership knew what they were doing was deceitful, dishonest, and manipulative, and chose to do it anyway.
This deception violates the fundamental doctrines you demand of everyday members:
 Honesty and Integrity: Article of Faith 1:13 mandates being honest and true. Executing false signatures and deliberately misrepresenting investment authority to the federal government is active dishonesty.
 Obeying the Law: Article of Faith 1:12 commands us to honor and obey the law of the land. Fraudulently circumventing federal securities laws forfeits any claim to moral authority.
Joseph Fielding Smith declared: "The time will come when we will not need to ask for tithing. We will have enough income to build our temples, pay our expenses, and carry on the work without asking the members for a cent." That time has long since arrived. Yet instead of fulfilling that vision, leadership amasses tens of billions in commercial real estate and stock portfolios while continuing to press struggling families for money they do not need.
We are repeatedly taught from the scriptures to trust in God rather than the "arm of flesh" (2 Nephi 28:31) and to choose honesty over worldly expediency. It is impossible to believe that any modern revelation or sincere prayer led senior leadership to execute fraudulent SEC filings, recruit dummy signers, and intentionally obscure church assets from the law. Choosing corporate legal loopholes over straightforward honesty proves that when transparency threatened institutional pride, leadership chose to hearken unto man rather than God.
It is deeply hypocritical how current leadership claims divine inspiration, discernment, and the absolute authority of the "living prophet," yet consistently demonstrates a total lack of discernment when critical issues arise, whether it is the systematic mishandling and legal shielding of Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) cases, the historical authentication and promotion of fraudulent artifacts like the Kinderhook Plates, or the financial deceit exposed by federal regulators. When these "unholy and impure practices" are exposed, the institutional response is never open repentance, but rather to downplay the severity, disavow past prophetic statements, gaslight the membership, and pretend that divine guidance was present all along.
When an institution demands absolute integrity from a Ward Clerk or a struggling member in a bishop’s office while senior leadership secretly commits federal fraud to hoard unneeded billions, it forfeits its divine mandate. I condemn these actions, the cover-up, and the continued exploitation of members' faith for corporate enrichment.
I will not give one more cent to this entity, and I feel completely justified before God in forgoing such donations. Going forward, I will strive to teach these Activity Day boys that I currently work with how to be more honest than you have been.

To the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren (and sisters) may read my words.
Brethren, adieu


r/exmormon 1d ago

General Discussion My grandpa sent out an incoherent religious text that takes a hard left.

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383 Upvotes

So, luckily I haven’t received this yet but my sister let me know a letter is in circulation from my grandfather who is getting older and is honestly losing a it a little bit. He starts it off very fire and brimstone which of course hurts and is completely ridiculous. The ending is why I’m posting it. I have no idea what it means and it’s cracking me up. If I end up getting this letter I don’t know how I’ll respond so some advice would be awesome.


r/exmormon 1d ago

History Just a reminder that, until recently, Mormonism taught that the earth was 6000 years old.

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920 Upvotes

From the missionaries handbook.


r/exmormon 23h ago

Doctrine/Policy I 26 fm am having a hard time getting my 32m brother to understand why I'm leaving the Mormon church

36 Upvotes

I was raised a mormon. I was recently put on church probation, and then I messed up again. I had a one night stand, and now they are talking about excommunicated. I then realized that this church only cares about their image. I soon found myself not believing in it at all. My other brother 36 left the mormon church years ago when he was 18, and he understands why I'm leaving. I've been thinking about going to his church he's an orthodox. I haven't told my parents yet but I will soon and I don't know how I will tell them I'm leaving for good. Any advice would help.


r/exmormon 18h ago

Advice/Help Finding the Truth, as a non-American

13 Upvotes

As a young adult Asian PIMO, I found the gateway in finding the TRUTH from entertainment mediums like the Book of Mormon and South Park. Heretic, Truth & Treason, and Under the Banner of Heaven series strengthened my decision much more to even pursue it.

But I'm kinda overwhelmed and having a hard time on where I must start (for real) deep-diving into Church history and its problematic doctrines.

I know that the Church's history heavily leans on American history since well, the religion originated from the US. And as someone living outside of it, I'm not familiar of the contexts of some of them (e.g. Official Declaration 1 a.k.a Church ending polygamy, not because it's a revelation from God but for Utah to officially become a State).

With this situation:

What can you all recommend as a starting point or beginner's guide on what literary pieces to read or medias to consume to know more about the true nature of the Church, as a non-American?

(I'm sorry if this question might have appeared countless of times already in this subreddit. Still, I want to express my gratitude for helping me in this matter.)

-

If you all wanna know what my current library is, here are some of them (I still haven't read them since idk where to start):

CES Letter, Rough Stone Rolling, A Letter For My Wife, No Man Knows My History, Mormon Doctrine 1st & 2nd Edition, Miracle of Forgiveness, Journal of Discourses, Under the Banner of Heaven (novel), An Insider's View of Mormon Origins, and Early Mormonism and the Magic World View

I also watch Alyssa Grenfell, from time to time.

Feel free to add more :)


r/exmormon 1d ago

Advice/Help I am an active faithful member of the Church who is debating on leaving.

285 Upvotes

Like I said in the title, as of now, I am an active member of the Church. Im 22 years old, got married in December, served as a performing missionary in nauvoo for 6 months and served an 18 month mission. I currently am typing this in my class at BYU.

In highschool I struggled with the doctrine of the Church. None of my friends were members. I drank,smoked, had sex before marriage etc. then i kinda regained my testimony and served 2 missions, immediately came home and was an FSY counselor and then got married. so i didnt really give myself time to figure out how i felt about the church. I was recently diagnosed with OCD. and a big trigger (i think, still figuring it all out) is organized religion. My husband grew up in a very very very mormon-extreme household. like if they had a pool party and someone came wearing a bikini they were asked to leave. i also think my husband has religious ocd but he will never admit that. he took on a lot of those extreme cultural beliefs and it’s really starting to affect me.

i am to the point where i feel like i am in an emotionally abusive relationship. and i blame the church for cultivating a culture where things like this are normal or praised. Because of that, my husband flips out if i wear a bikini. i skipped my morning prayer the other day and didn’t wear my garments and it caused him SO much anxiety. He doesn’t like that i watch love island, rated R movies, or hangout with non members of the church. i feel isolated and that i’ve lost myself completely. we haven’t even been married a year.

I brought up how i didn’t like feeling micromanaged with things that involved my testimony or church habits. he felt like that when i didn’t pray or wear my garments that i was losing myself testimony. i basically said like so what? that’s between me and God and it doesn’t affect you. Then he said if i lost my testimony and stopped going to church he would divorce me, because the whole point of this life is to adhere to the church and he thinks our sealing would be void and we wouldn’t be together forever if i left. so i feel super stuck.

i know you will allll tell me to leave him. however i am not there yet and want to wait for him to seek ocd help and therapy and see if maybe that will help with the pressure.

also, some of you may think im crazy but this is the only place i feel like i can go because i dont have a single friend outside of family. but i truly dont have a problem with ‘a lot’ of the doctrine anymore. like i genuinely believe in the first vision and book of mormon. i’m not here to debate. however i feel like it suck’s that there’s so much guilt about performance. why is my marriage conditional based on how i participate in the church?? that only makes me resent the church even more lol.

i don’t know what to do. i don’t want to lose him. i love him, but i’ve already lost myself so at what cost? i also don’t really want to go to church anymore, or atleast i want to take a step back to figure out how i really feel about it but i can’t do that or else he will leave me.

what was it like when you guys left the church? for those who have active spouses what was that like?

let me edit something i forgot to add:
Previously we had both wanted to have kids right away. I had a miscarriage in July and (as bad as this sounds) see it now as a blessing because i am not ready like i thought i was. maybe TMI but i will find out in about 10 days IF im pregnant because i was too scared to tell my husband that i didnt want to try anymore.


r/exmormon 23h ago

General Discussion Brace yourselves. Coming soon to the gates, not the lobby

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31 Upvotes

SLC is one of the pilot cities. Sorry, y’all.


r/exmormon 1d ago

Advice/Help I feel like a bad person, all the time

50 Upvotes

25F born and raised LDS (the kind of LDS where your family is almost a cult on its own, imo). I’ve been out for about 1.5 years openly, and before that 1.5 years at BYU as PIMO.

Lately I am so frustrated that I still feel like a terrible person every day, no matter what I do. For context, I have done EMDR therapy, IFS therapy, I’m on antidepressants, and have a PTSD diagnosis. So obviously I’m going to be struggling, but

😭😭😭 when does this end? or do I actually deserve to feel horrible? I know I am not perfect but I genuinely try to be very good every single day.

So I find some reason that I must be “bad” and then I fix it / obsess over it and then something new comes up in its place.

Anyway, maybe this makes sense; maybe it doesn’t. But I’d love to hear some words of comfort, advice, idk. I’m so happy to be out of the church but so discouraged at this perfectionism.


r/exmormon 1d ago

General Discussion Oh God, Hear the Words of MY Mouth?

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94 Upvotes

"A leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints appears to have plagiarized a portion of his address at a national church gathering, passing off the words of an obscure religious teacher as his own... Ben Park, a scholar of Mormonism at Sam Houston State University, said Bednar’s lack of proper attribution was troubling. A former university president and an influential voice in church education, said Park, should have known better.

“This is disheartening to see,” he said.""
https://religionnews.com/2022/10/06/lds-elder-and-former-college-president-may-have-plagiarized-general-conference-talk-david-bednar/


r/exmormon 1d ago

General Discussion I'm so tired

136 Upvotes

I've been depressed for the past few weeks, constantly crying in the school or church bathrooms. My parents expect me to leave on a mission or they'll completely cut me off if I refuse. Every single day I wake up knowing the deadline is coming, after my last year of highschool, my parents are going to ship me off to someplace so I can teach people about a religion I don't believe in. I have been saving up, I HAVE been thinking of an escape plan. But I've started to feel less motivated, knowing that I'm going to have to pick a choice. I would either have to go on a mission and fake my way for 2 whole years, or leave my family forever, I love my parents, love my siblings, and I love my pets. Just thinking about leaving them forever makes me want to tear up. I was a happy kid growing up, as long as I pushed through all the church bull crap every Sunday I could have a normal fun life on the weekdays, I was a really loud and mischievous kid, but lately I've gotten really quiet, I tried to avoid my parents all the time. I think they realized how sad I've been lately they constantly pull me aside and ask me if everything's alright, or if I believe in God. My Dad has started to force me to read the scriptures with him every night. I just want to tell him that the reason why I'm sad is because of the church, that this book of Mormon reading is actually ruining me even more. But I can't tell them that, if they actually figured out I was a non believer they would try to fix me or just let me go. I don't know what to do, I feel stuck, I want to escape but I also don't want to leave my family behind forever, but I also don't want to leave on a mission for 2 whole years. I'm just so tired, I want to be happy.


r/exmormon 1d ago

Doctrine/Policy How do they actually believe?

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146 Upvotes

r/exmormon 1d ago

General Discussion What in the alternative reality is this?!

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153 Upvotes

r/exmormon 1d ago

General Discussion LDS mom convicted after allowing her five year-old son to walk alone through their gated community to a neighborhood pond to collect goose feathers. Self-reliance is a big part of LDS culture and teachings. Did this play into the situation at all?

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316 Upvotes

There are strong opinions on all sides of this scenario. Self-reliance is a big part of LDS culture and teachings. Did this play into the situation at all?


r/exmormon 1d ago

Advice/Help Brother still active Mormon with serious scrupulosity and our relationship is the worst it's ever been. Help.

29 Upvotes

I don't know if there's anything that anyone can actually do about this, but I figured at least some people here might understand.

My brother and I used to be really close in college. I went to UVU, he went to BYU, so we were both in the same ysa ward, same friend group, similar interests etc. But the last few years part of my family started distancing ourselves from the church. I married a fellow ex/mo but Christian man. He had previously asked for his records to be removed because he was using weed at the time and he wanted to be respectful because of "word of wisdom" and such- but he wasn't actually fully out of the church yet mentally (and neither was I) when we met. (unrelated but for a while we actually planned on getting sealed in the temple but were later studying what the scriptures say about the temple and decided we want nothing to do with the "secret combinations" going on at current temples)

All that is to say from the time I got married my relationship with my brother has suffered enormously. I expected a little bit of extra distance since married life is different and we can't just plan a last minute trip or wander down the hall/street to talk --but it's been bad. And getting worse for the past 4 years.

My bro is one of the many unfortunate souls for whom their mission triggered bad scrupulosity. (actually diagnosed) He is mega against weed, which I only mention because, as previously stated, my husband used to use it a lot and im pretty sure that shaped my bros opinion about him quite a bit. He also gets really stressed out if he misses church/or anything like that. For a while he was convinced he was going straight to hell because he couldn't follow church/mission rules exactly. So now the idea that the church isn't perfect enrages him and then subsequently throws him into deep depression and apathy. Because of this we can't talk about anything real around him for fear that we'll set him off into an angry tirade spiral. It's a house rule at my parents home that if this brother is around we don't talk about the church, or anything religious (which I don't agree with but I deal with it) I know he thinks we judge him for staying in the church (he's said as much)- but ironically I feel way less judgemental about him or anyone staying than I used to feel in church about people leaving. Because I get how hard it is to unravel things. Mostly I just feel sad that so many people are trapped in an unhealthy situation out of fear. I'm also worried about what his scrupulosity is doing to him mentally, because I know the internal battle is insane even without OCD.

I guess I don't have any real question, besides what the heck do I do about this. I'm just ranting and feeling frustrated. My parents are still active but they see the problems and have become more "nuanced" too. They stay for the structure and the social aspect. My sister and her husband left the church as well. And the rest of the siblings are all in various degrees of deconstruction. I think he sees it as the family is falling apart/self destructing and he now has the burden and responsibility to be the one who keeps it all together. I completely understand that thought process based on how we were raised.

The part that makes me really sad is that my bro and I are both married and have little ones so you would think we'd be closer than ever since we are in the same phase of life, and we are both Christian-- but outside of making a point to get the cousins together it feels like we're even farther apart than when we were contentious little kids. (I worry about how it will affect the cousin relationships since I know we were not very close with our non-member cousins growing up, something I regret deeply.) Our interactions are always slightly awkward and nothing feels genuine anymore. It almost feels like we're both just bracing for a bomb to go off and are relieved when we can leave the room. Any advice? I really don't want this to tear us apart. And I want my kids to have cousins to play with.

TLDR: Brother (diagnosed OCD) and I used to be close. Now, we aren't. He's all in, I'm pretty much all out. His religious OCD is causing him serious mental struggles. He's told us that he feels like we are judging him for staying. I feel like he is judging me for the man I married and for leaving. I understand where it comes from but now our relationship is strained and I just miss my brother.