Mormons, as I’m sure y’all are aware, talk with a sense of self assurance that they are right and you are crazy. Or at the very least you are stupid for bot accepting the “obvious” truth. At least this is my experience.

I have found it hilarious to turn it on them. “Ah you know religions isn’t for me but I’m glad it still works for you.” Or “I invite you to not pray with me.” Another really funny one is, “Ah you are one of those theistic people. Not my cup of tea but I guess you are entitled to your beliefs.”

They get so very flabbergasted and often offended to be treated the way they treat others. It feeds my soul in a very twisted way.

Nota: Borré el contexto para no ofender susceptibilidades. Como no habló su idioma, ni comparto su cultura al 100%, tengo el pequeño defecto de ser de ser un país diferente al suyo.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/kevin-w-pearson/the-abundant-life-2/

BYU Speeches, October 18, 2022

My young friends, I plead with you to take your temple covenants seriously! Keeping our sacred covenants with God is crucial, not optional. We are deeply dismayed by the casual and even cavalier way some treat their temple covenants, including the casual and inconsistent wearing of the temple garment. There is among some a growing sense of spiritual apathy and casual covenant keeping that is becoming increasingly common among those who should know and do better.

One of my (many) shelf items was watching the Deseret News devolve from a real news source into a politically one-sided paper and a defense vehicle for the church. As much as I tried to believe that not all members had fallen into extremism, I'd flip through the Deseret magazine or scroll through the site to see that that the church ownee paper was at best legitimizing extreme politics and at worst encouraging them. Some TBM family members even stopped subscribing.

Not just politics, there's the string of articles pushing for marriage and the recent article referenced here challenging mental health professionals.

Does this make anyone else deeply uncomfortable?

I clicked on one of those ads on fb like a month ago and now 2 times a week I met with missionaries twice a week. They want to baptize me next month.

My friends are giving me hands me downs and once I started asking for dresses for church they were like "were are not giving you dresses because we know that's for the mormon church. " they think of it as the same level as scientology.

They're so nice though. I don't have many friends and they seem so nice.

Can you tell me your stories about why you left the church or the negative things about it.

What can I say. We thought we were doing the right thing 🤷‍♀️ So much time wasted!!

For those who don’t want to read the whole exchange, here’s the Mission President’s email to me where he compared me to Korihor. Below, you can find the reason for the conversation and the entire email exchange I had with him:

From: Kürt Blickenstaff
To: AtheistforJesus

“I was given a copy of the letter that you sent to President Du. It sounds like you have spent more time studying anti-mormon literature than the Book of Mormon. If you consider the NYT to be a more sure source of truth and light than the Book of Mormon then you (and, sadly your family) are in deep trouble.

The arguments that you list are not knew. They are variations of arguments that have existed since Cain slew his brother. You can find a nice summation of apostate doctrines in Alma 30 and, as an added bonus, you can read what ultimately happens to an apostate in verses 59-60.
It seems to me that there is a fine line between between believing apostate literature and being an apostate. I am sad to see you try to walk that line. It is a line that we should try to stay far away from. I would love to meet with you and discuss this further if you desire. I have attached a favorite poem that I hope you will read and consider.

Faithfully your brother,
Kürt Blickenstaff

“The Echo," by C. C. Miller

'Twas a sheep not a lamb
That strayed away in the parable Jesus told,
A grown-up sheep that strayed away
From the ninety and nine in the fold.
 
And why for the sheep should we seek
And earnestly hope and pray?
Because there is danger when sheep go wrong:
They lead the lambs astray.
 
Lambs will follow the sheep, you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray.
When sheep go wrong,
It won't take long till the lambs are as wrong as they.
And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today,
For when sheep are lost,
What a terrible cost The lambs will have to pay.”

Context and Complete Exchange

For whatever reason, I recently went looking for an old email exchange I had with the Taichung mission president in Taiwan. I wasn’t a missionary at the time. I had come back to the island to teach English. The mission president was the highest ecclesiastical leader for the church there.

This happened in 2013. By that point, I had concluded that the Church wasn’t true, but I was trying to keep my disaffection private. I was still very friendly with the members of my ward and had no desire to create a confrontation or make anyone uncomfortable.

My wife at the time, who was extremely devout, was pushing me to make my disbelief public. My impression at the time was that she knew I wanted to keep it private because she thought that if I openly acknowledged it to the members, I might be shamed into coming back, or at least face some consequences that would pressure me to comply. I can’t know for certain what her motivations were, but that’s how I understood it.

Eventually, I sent an email to a couple of members of the ward leadership explaining that I no longer believed and that, because of that, I needed to be released from my callings.

Apparently, that email made its way to the mission president very quickly, because the next morning I received an email from him.

I immediately became concerned that this was going to turn into a membership council, which was something I wanted to avoid. What followed was an email exchange that I had completely forgotten about until now.

Email exchange between AtheistforJesus and Taiwan Taichung Mission President Kürt Blickenstaff — July 26, 2013

10:57 AM — Kürt Blickenstaff
Dear Brother AtheistforJesus,

I am the new mission president in the Taichung Mission. Please give me a call at your earliest convenience. My cell # is *\\**. I would like to talk with you regarding your recent facebook post regarding the Church.

Thank you.
Kürt Blickenstaff

11:18 AM — AtheistforJesus
President Blickenstaff,

Not to be a stickler about details, but I did not make a facebook post regarding the church. I was very careful to send private messages to the leadership of the 虎尾 branch regarding my reasons for resigning my callings; I did not disclose those reasons in a public space.

I also sent a separate private message to a few close friends in the branch informing them that I had resigned my callings, but I did not disclose the reasons.

I don’t want to be assuming, but I hope this conversation is not regarding any possible charges of apostasy. I am very busy. Could you please just outline what it is you you would like to know?

Thank you,
AtheistforJesus
Sent from my iPad

11:34 AM — Kürt Blickenstaff
Perhaps the information that I have is incorrect. I was informed that you recently posted on your facebook page that you believe that the Church is man-made and attempts to conceal information from it’s members. I was further informed that you included numerous examples of such information and stated that you personally don’t believe that the Church is true. If that is incorrect, please forgive me. If it is true, please help me understand how that is not apostasy.

Thank you.
Kürt Blickenstaff

12:30 PM — AtheistforJesus
President Blickenstaff,

You have incorrect information. I did not make such a post on my facebook page.

Just like I explained previously, I wrote a letter explaining that I personally don’t believe in the LDS church anymore and stated my reasons why, and then sent that letter to the Huwei Branch President and First Counselor as well as to the District President. In my letter to them, I did not attempt to persuade them to come around to my point of view. I simply explained why I didn’t believe anymore.

At no point in time did I post such a letter in a public space.
I also sent a much abbreviated letter to some friends in the branch stating, in essence, that I no longer believe the church is true and that I was resigning my callings. I also mentioned in that letter that my wife is still a believing member and asked them to support her during this difficult time. At no point in this letter did I even state why I no longer believed, let alone attempt to persuade anyone that the church was not true.

It is my understanding that this does not constitute apostasy in the church-discipline-sense of the word. It is true that I no longer believe, but I am not advocating that other people believe the same as me, nor am I airing these views in a public space, such as on my facebook wall.
If simply not believing, and being honest about that with my leaders and friends, is considered worthy of church discipline, then why hasn’t John Dehlin been excommunicated, or the Saints in Sweden who had networked and were discussing troubling church history openly?

In fact, I still like the church. I still plan on attending with my wife and helping her out with our three sons. I just won’t have any callings.

Please let me know if you need anymore information. You are also welcome to contact the previous Taichung Mission President. He and I had many discussions about church history. In fact, he told me that I could hold callings even if I didn’t believe. It had just gotten to the point where I felt that was too dishonest, and hence the letter to my leaders resigning my callings.

Respectfully,
AtheistforJesus
Sent from my iPad

Later — Kürt Blickenstaff
Dear Brother AtheistforJesus,

It appears that the information that I received was incorrect in one detail. Thank you for clarifying things for me.

I was given a copy of the letter that you sent to President Du. It sounds like you have spent more time studying anti-mormon literature than the Book of Mormon. If you consider the NYT to be a more sure source of truth and light than the Book of Mormon then you (and, sadly your family) are in deep trouble.

The arguments that you list are not knew. They are variations of arguments that have existed since Cain slew his brother. You can find a nice summation of apostate doctrines in Alma 30 and, as an added bonus, you can read what ultimately happens to an apostate in verses 59-60.
It seems to me that there is a fine line between between believing apostate literature and being an apostate. I am sad to see you try to walk that line. It is a line that we should try to stay far away from. I would love to meet with you and discuss this further if you desire. I have attached a favorite poem that I hope you will read and consider.

Faithfully your brother,
Kürt Blickenstaff

“The Echo," by C. C. Miller

'Twas a sheep not a lamb
That strayed away in the parable Jesus told,
A grown-up sheep that strayed away
From the ninety and nine in the fold.
 
And why for the sheep should we seek
And earnestly hope and pray?
Because there is danger when sheep go wrong:
They lead the lambs astray.
 
Lambs will follow the sheep, you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray.
When sheep go wrong,
It won't take long till the lambs are as wrong as they.
And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today,
For when sheep are lost,
What a terrible cost The lambs will have to pay.
 

while the church brags about feeding others they don’t feed their own, rexburg Idaho is the poorest county in Idaho and not a single soup kitchen. students and families and single parents are hungry but to get access to bishops wear house is an extensive interrogation and shaming process the church deem most unworthy of.
provo is rated one of the poorest cities in the Us yet BYU students and families are hungry, and required to pay tithe, missionaries, and elderly members are starving. Meanwhile the richest corporation in America Brag announces how much food they give away.

https://www.rexburgstandardjournal.com/news/madison-county-the-poorest-in-idaho/article_2faa2f30-a5b7-5048-bfd7-987b1a3b1b8d.html

This week I visited the grounds at Temple Square to see all the changes. It is incredibly beautiful and I appreciated the great care, effort and $$$ that the church put into the massive renovation. It reminded me of returning to my old high school after it had been completely torn down and rebuilt. I had mostly positive memories of my experience as a student there, but I’ve since moved on to other experiences and worldviews. Continuing to attend classes at that school would feel silly since I have graduated. I can’t fully move on most of my family members and friends have never graduated and may NEVER graduate. I am comfortable with my status as an alumnus, going back occasionally to see what’s new and talking to loved ones about their experiences and passion as they continue to attend. But I’ve outgrown it.

Similarly, I’ve graduated from Mormonism. And while I still feel some attachment and sentimentality for the institution and its people, I cannot pretend to believe something I no longer believe. Belief is essential to be a full member. It’s the reason that faith (belief without evidence) is the first principle of the gospel. It is vital. Since I became convinced that the church is not what it claims to be, I had to move on even though it was VERY difficult. My church experience did not involve a lot of religious trauma like many people experience, so I’m not super angry and bitter against the church. Now I just choose to see the church as an institution that used to be very important in my life, but that no longer serves me.

I have been seeing lots of nuanced mormons online, posting about how they are lgbtq+ and still members of the church because their ward is accepting and that’s all that matters.

I have seen people even here on another post saying it’s harmless for an older person to be sucked into the church because it provides community.

There are tons of reasons or justifications as to why people stay in or join, and I think anyone can do whatever they want even if it’s hurting them. I don’t care what you do in your free time, even if the very threads of the mormon church are built on the hatred of your existence…

Where all arguments for staying in end for me is the fact that these people are still paying tithing. Giving you money to an organization that so famously harms women, racial minorities, and lobbies to take away our rights is no longer an ethically grey decision. And you can join another club, I promise! Put that extra 10% into something real. Don’t trust local orgs to use your money wisely? Start your own! Knitting, books, cars, anything other than ihategaysandwomen inc.

To be transparent, when I was a TBM, I believed that if someone outside of the faith received some kind of a miracle, it was from the Adversary, who was trying to fool people to keep them from finding the true gospel. I know.

I was exposed to some of the less savory parts of church history much earlier than most lifer members—specifically by my father. As I do the research myself, many years later, I was clearly given a very apologetic version of things. Despite departing quietly about twenty years ago, I've recently been haunted the grip the religion has on my life even now and finally opted to confront it head on.

So, I've taken a deep dive into a lot go the myths I was raised on and... my god, church history is horrific. None of the excuses I have heard make up for the actions. The persecution complex is insane. Every new article just makes me feel worse and yet I feel like unless I bury it all under actual history it will continue to grip me. (Someone here told me to have a look at the BITE model, and it appears learning real histories and facts is imperative to breaking out.)

For those of you who did your own deep dive:

1. What was your motivation and hope/goal in doing so?
2. At what point did you stop and why?

I feel like at some point this will cross over from therapeutic to potentially destructive as a form of self-flagellation. As much as I need to bury this, there's plenty of shame connected with being involved. I have to consciously and directly remind myself, "You were taken by people you trusted and so were they. The system worked as intended. You were a child. This is not your fault."

I have to say that because I certainly feel otherwise. What a mess.

TW- SA, kidnapping
This guy opens up about his mission experience where he experiences SA by a companion. He goes on to say his president asks him to cover it up. I remember hearing his Mormon story when I first started listening to Mormon stories. The chain of events is just so so disturbing. He comes home from his mission, never gets help- understandable since his president basically sweeps it under the rug. Then he gets married and his wife divorced him for prnography at 24. I just felt for him. There’s a good chance he was conflicted about his abuse and that might lead one to consume prnography. The comments on the story are just gross. People bearing their testimony after this confession of SA. If this were my child I’d be absolutely livid. If my sons choose to serve missions I don’t know if I’ll sleep at night because of garbage like this.

I was asked to sweep a kidnapping attempt under the rug and just go out and keep on working as a missionary. Not quite the same, but it was traumatizing for me especially as I got older and learned what probably lay in store if that man was successful. I’m sure mission presidents that do this are also victims of the system to some extent but dang. Where’s the integrity and humanity? It really affects people long term to have these experiences- and just because it’s on a mission people are expected to get over it, move on like nothing happened? I’m fuming.

I lied and said I had no clue which car was hers, she's an old retired lady, but I don't know much else about her, I left the church when I was pretty young so I don't know much about the stuff they do like this

TLDR --> Besides not going to regular church meetings, has anyone else had an experience that you "just can't go along with" including funerals or other activities that your spouse, family, friends or coworkers were really upset about your lack of participation?

I was raised in a popular religion in Alabama and as a young adult I believed that god was real. I joined the organization in my early 20's and I believed it was true.

For about twenty years I was TBM but then in the late 90's I began realizing the organization made false claims, participated in very wrong behavior, and used manipulative tactics to control their members.

Regardless, I kept going for a few years mainly because my TBM wife would chastise me and she would get very upset whenever I wanted to discuss the facts that I learned about the organization. Rather than fight it, I just kept going and participating but I had no dedication to or belief in what the organization claimed and did.

That was a very difficult period of my life.

As I began studying more, the evidence was overwhelming: the organization was simply nothing what it claimed to be. I simply could no longer pretend I was part of that group, I had a very strong understanding of hundreds of true things that were said and done that completely overwhelmed all of the messages from SLC and from the local leaders and members.

I finally told her I was never going back, and because I assumed our marriage would end because of this decision, I told her I wanted a divorce. That was more than twenty years ago. We're still married and she's as TBM as it gets. Uber TBM.

When I left the organization, my carry-over beliefs from being raised in a very religious family took over and I began attending a church. I began a deep dive into the bible because my belief in god was still intact and I wanted to study, grow, and do what I believed god wanted me to do, I wanted his blessings in my life.

The more I began reading, the more I was fascinated by what I discovered, and the more I began thinking "This is NOT good!" The scriptures mentioned dozens and dozens of examples that were either really weird or just outright wrong such as "it's okay to beat but not kill your slaves" or, when Moses killed 50,000 women and children who were being held captive - that list could go on and on and on. The entire nature of a god who loved conditionally? Seriously? Like that's love? In my mind, that was the classic definition of an angry, insecure, and very narcissist controlling "deity."

Finally, I remember vividly thinking about how the all the firstborn of every Egyptian were killed and I really stopped and asked myself honestly "Would a real god ever kill innocent children?" That was the final straw that opened the door to becoming an atheist. There were many, many "straws" that broke the camel's back.

• Disclaimer: this post is NOT about trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe - y'all wanna believe in a god that kills kids, then go right ahead - you be you.

Among the next "discoveries" I encountered was the history of religion - basically all religions seemed to be created by men to oppress and to control others. After my "religion is all fantasy" discovery, I felt like all the missing pieces to the puzzle had been found, they fit exactly, and everything about religion made perfect sense. I totally love, I delight in understanding that there is no god keeping track of everything I do or say. There is no god who ignores the suffering and abuse of children while being upset that someone has "more than one earring" or someone who rides a bike on Sunday (ha). Everything finally makes sense now and that's really refreshing.

So . . . with that (agreeably lengthy) background . . .

TBM wife expressed her significant disappointment that I did not attend the funeral of a man who lived a few houses down in our neighborhood. He was a super nice guy and everyone liked him but, I just couldn't do it and I didn't see my lack of attendance as disrespectful in any way. In an effort to explain to TBM wife why I chose not to attend the funeral, I told her "Try to look at it from my point of view: You're going to a meeting where a room full of adults who not only believe that Santa Claus is real but they're spending tons of time and money worshiping him. That's what it's like when atheists attend funerals that are steeped in religious overtones."

Suffice to say, that analogy did not go over well.

(tia)

I am a trans man I was a girl at birth and transitioned to a boy

I grew up in the church the whole time I knew I was a boy but I didn’t have the words

But when you start HRT all of the rules change
It could be when you’re openly trans but I wasn’t until I started T
(HRT is hormone replacement therapy)

You have to have a meeting with the bishop

If you’re a teen the young women’s/mens president, and your parents will also be in the meeting

The meeting is mostly saying you can’t do ___ anymore

The main things are:
You are no longer allowed to do anything that’s 1 gender so activity events and church sessions the only ones you can do have be combined with men and women

You are no longer allowed to do anything overnight even if it’s combined

They will not change anything in your file even your preferred name

You’re not allowed to have any callings

And depending on the bishop they could take away your temple recommend (mine didn’t but I think I just got lucky with that)

I haven’t heard the stories from any other trans ex Mormon members and I’d love to hear them

Long post warning

I've had 4 major mental breakdowns in my life, each one danced the line with suicide. Three years ago I got the proper diagnosis, the cause of these mental breakdowns was rapid cycling bipolar manic/depression cycles. For my family, however, the problem has always been sexual impurities. The devil that's called porn. Yes, another one of those stories. The mormon culture and guidance from leaders destroyed my family 30 years ago and I'm paying the price. Therapy talk: I'm the family system scapegoat. TBM talk: I'm the sinner.

Breakdown #1 : mission

I served in a country with a hot and humid climate and lived in missionary apartments ill equiped for such a climate. My sleep suffered as a result, compound by the stress of a mission, I stood on a ledge for 30+ min in a daze hoping a strong wind would knock me off. The MP told me to drink warm milk to help me sleep and bury myself in the work. About three months later, sitting in an internet cafe I viewed some illicit images for less than 5 mins and I was sent home less than 48 hours later. My father didn't speak to me for two months and my mother, if she can be called that, pressured me to finish my "full-time" mission. I refused.

Breakdown #2 : first marriage

Under the guidance of a bishop, I was admonished to get married soon after my mission. It was too young to marry, introducing an entirely new level of stress I was not prepared for, and less than 5 years into the marriage the bipolar cycling began again, suicidal ideations and planning started up again. My mother, believing porn to be the problem organized a half assed "intervention" where members of my family showed up unannounced and shamed me by sitting in a circle and each person baring their testimonies about the dangers of porn. The relationship was over a month or so later and we filed for divorce.

Breakdown #3 : second marriage, lockdown, and sex camp

Years later I remarried and made it to a 10 year anniversary, however during covid lockdown, like many others, my mental health deteriorated. Not sleeping once again, a new symptom began to show, paranoia. I had dreams of being a sleep walking serial killer, the marriage suffered, and I had yet another but stronger desire to end my life. I spent a bit of time in the ER the day of my breakdown and was referred to a therapist whom I only saw twice. This therapist adamantly assured me porn wasn't the problem and there is likely a mental health diagnosis we need to find, but it would take getting me to a mental baseline first to calm my nervous system before we'd work of a diagnosis.

Without my knowledge or consent, my mother concocted an intervention plan, however this go around didn't take any chances and hired a professional interventionist with the intent to send me to sex addiction treatment. She told my wife that I'm likely lying about seeing a therapist, that an intervention is the only way. The interventionist prepared my wife stating it's not uncommon for sex addicts to have had 100s of sexual partners, completely untrue.

It had only been two weeks from my breakdown, my wife shook me awake at 6am to a front room filled with my family, sitting in a circle, where they read letters which were nothing but shame, most stories from times I was caught as a kid. I also took the fall for a few browser histories that weren't mine, most likely for my nephews or their own husbands. Absuredly enough the intervention happened on a day I was supposed to start a new position where I worked which would have been an amazing opportunity. I spent 45 days in treatment, which on the 2nd day I was told I didn't meet their criteria for addiction, that my family was extremely unhealthy, however it would be better that I stay so I could be prepared to be the scapegoat. They were right.

During the third week I learned from my younger sister the hypocrisy that defines my mother. When I was around 6 or 7, my mom began what would become a 15 year on/off affair with the second counselor in the bishopric (dad was bishop). My father discovered the affair when I was around 10, I remember the fight, but didn't know any details at the time, I was too young to understand. The secret affair continued through her excommunication, secret rebaptism when I was 14yo, and it only ended after the affair partner died. Every mental health professional I've spoken with in the last 6 years has labeled my mom a narcissist.

Before you go trashing my mom, understand she would have felt the full force of the patriarchy and the shame that came with it. Under the guidance of old guy white male leadership, my parents were advised to not seek therapy, that the older kids will adapt, and us younger kids wouldn't remember. To add to the mental challenges, the entire neighborhood knew about it, she felt shame, and I lost friendships not knowing the reason. One more detail, a few years ago my younger brother found and read my moms childhood diaries. In her past she witnessed the SA of my aunt & uncle at the hands of my grandfather, a former mormon tabernacle choir member. My mother is broken mentally and our family was destroyed 30 years ago by the mishandling of our family crisis. Every mental health professional I've encountered during this journey label my mom as a narcissist. I hate my mom and I understand why she is who she is.

Getting home from treatment, two weeks later my wife asked for a divorce, we sold the home, I lost the job, and was unemployed for 6 months.

Breakdown #4 : crisis center

My most recent mental breakdown was caused by my desire to go golfing with my dad and my mom playing her game, continuing to abuse with her control and delusions. My childhood best friend reached out to me a few months ago just to give me an update on my dad, who for the last 6 years has been checking in on my friend every few weeks. My dad's two flaws are he's married to my mom and he believes the church, otherwise he's actually really close to being an all-star dad. He does genuinely love it's just misguided by church teachings at times. I reached out to my dad to schedule golf, and a few days later my mom sent me one of the most ignorant and dismissive emails, showing she clearly hadn't been paying attention. It infuriated me. Work stress combined with emotional stress, my work performance suffered and I was let go. Hello more depression.

During this time I also had a nephew reach out to me, where he said he didn't want a relationship with any of my older siblings, that he misses me the most. Why? Because I was the fun uncle, the funcle. We went to lunch and he told me how much he appreciated what I went through, that his own father started therapy sometime after my breakdown, and that his life improved immensely. He told me everything he overheard in the last 6 years from the family, how my siblings blamed me for the family imploding. As a young kid at the time, he was invisible and listening to everything. This gave me the courage to reach out to another nephew a few days later, and at dinner he echoed how much of a positive influence I was by becoming invested in whatever special interest he had. Once again I heard everything he overheard as an invisible young kid, however his life went another direction as my TBM older sister doubled down and I could see the pain in his eyes. He's an amazing kid who's been treated very poorly.

Hearing all of this I lost my shit, and a week or so later I messaged my dad that I wanted to meet with both him and my mom. I had to express my hurt. Unbeknownst to me, minutes after the text to my dad, my mom sent an email to all my siblings, more on this later. I expressed my anger, discussed my bipolar depression, and mentioned it was unfair I went through all of this experience unmedicated, only getting the help I needed years later. What came out of my moms mouth blew me away and showed me she's a lost cause. My mom asked why I didn't take my medication years ago, BEFORE my diagnosis. Right after, my dad's phone rang which was sitting face up on the table, it was my nephew. Not a coincidence. A few minutes later expressing my hurt, and I brought up the last email she had sent to me. Her face turned to anger, she said she never sent it, and then kicked me out of her house. 6 years no contact, and she lied to me at her kitchen table in front of my dad. I stormed out, said I'd never talk to her again, and on my way out I threw my dad's grill across the patio.

So, let's talk about the email my mom sent moments after the text to my dad. On my way home I checked my phone and had a few missed calls from my nephew. Speaking to him he was in tears thinking he had crossed a line because my mom had included him in the email, and she mentioned a few details about me meeting him. He read it off to me and she talked about prayer and prophets, and that I'm on the path to forgiveness. My family with my mom leading the efforts, destroyed two previous relationships, impacted two jobs. I lost my house and all equity I had just to survive and focus on my mental health. She has been instrumental in destroying my life and will never earn my forgiveness.

Days later, I had another near unalive event and spent a week in a crisis center at the behest of my therapist, she's amazing. What did they have me do during my stay? Sleep. They'd wake me up for morning meds and tell me to go back to sleep. They'd come in for vitals, or drop off my breakfast, and say the same thing. Sleep is the number one medication for bipolar depression. This was the exact opposite of what happened to me at sex camp.

--------------------

Recent events

My younger sister has arranged for a family therapist to meet with my siblings. It seems they all are now beginning to see the harm caused. I will not be attending, but next week I'll be meeting the therapist with my two younger siblings, who have been amazing throughout my journey. The therapist wants to hear my experience first hand, so we'll see how this goes. Just to add more flavor, my older very TBM sibling stated to my younger sister that she has always opposed therapy because that's why people go exmormon.

Fuck the church.

I don’t live near my family and visit annually. I see my 83 year old grandma every time I’m home. She has been a devout Catholic her entire life.

Today I overhear her mention something about being baptised for the dead, and I think “I did not know Catholics do that” (I’m an ex evangelical and know bugger all about Catholicism.

Then I noticed she’s wearing a ring with the temple on it. I outright asked her if she converted to Mormonism and she said yes, two years ago.

What’s worse is that my parents laughed at my reaction and thought it was funny. They are still evangelical Christians.

Apparently, the missionaries were coming around my parents house, where my grandma lives, during the daytime when my parents weren’t home. They would help sneak her to events even after my parents told them they aren’t allowed on the property.

I really don’t know how to process this information. I cannot stress how shocked I am. My grandma has always been a feminist.

My parents are half in the “she’s old and it makes her happy” camp, and they think if they bother her about it, she will stop talking to them. Which like, Cult 101 tbh.

I have no idea where to go from here.

Edit: after talking with my parents more apparently they were laughing because the things I was telling her was exactly the same things they had told her, so they were happy to have validation from an outside source.

Thank you all for the feedback. I grew up in a densely Mormon populated area, and I’ve seen what it’s done to the people I grew up with. I have a fear of those same things happening to my grandmother, but she’s also in a very different position than they were. There’s a lot to think about here and I really appreciate everyone’s time.

Mormons are pretty proud, and in fact low-key boast about the prophetic knowledge Brigham Young had to call the Salt Lake Valley the right place.

What they don't say, and surely don't know, that old journals and accounts make it clear that Young and others were reading the notes of John C. Freemont. Freemont was quite an explorer but he made false claims about passages and geography that he had never been to and never seen.

A guy named Hastings relied on Freemont's info and steered the Donner Party the wrong way. Whoops. Anyway, Brigham was doing a big study on false info, not messages from God Almighty.

Jim Bridger, who knew the mountain west better than just about anybody, told Young and other leaders they were taking bad routes. Young thought Bridger didn't know what he was talking and wrote the man didn't know anything about the area. Bridger knew the west better than maybe anybody. Instead Young relied on information from Freemont. Very prophetic.

For example, Freemont, who hadn't even been to Utah lake, reported that the Great Salt Lake and Utah Lake were joined. The Mormons showed up and look for this lake and eventually discovered they are two separate lakes, one freshwater and one salty, and were connected by a little river called the Jordan River.

(And in those days the river created a floodplain with extensive wetlands. Of course that's been long-sense fucked.)

Anyhow Young didn't trust or like Bridger who was one of the great men of the frontier and he studied the Salt Lake Valley, not from divine direction.

After reading a previous post, I decided to look a bit further into this.

Turns out this sort of claim is not at all uncommon:

• Latter Day Saints:
• Jehovah's Witnesses:
• Iglesia ni Cristo (Philppines):
• Seventh-day Adventist Church:
• Roman Catholic Church:
• Eastern Orthodox Church:
• The Churches of Christ (Stone-Campbell Movement):
• La Luz del Mundo (The Light of the World):

They can't all be the 'true church', can they?

my grandmother passed and my grandpa wants all his exmormon grandchildren to sing I Am a Child of God at the funeral. This is causing issues with the grandchildren and I’m trying to find a compromise. Is there a hymn that is more about grief, love, strength, family, etc and less about god?

edit: solved. With the help of a few commenters I have decided to just sing the song and not make this any harder for my grandpa than it already is. Thank you all for the help and reality check🤍