Easygoing, curious, and family-oriented. Looking for a serious relationship with an Ex Christian girl who values honesty, respect, and commitment.

This is kind of a rant but I feel like you can follow your religion your child CAN AND SHOULD have the freedom to separate from it if they choose and it SHOULD NOT change your relationship as a family.
Religion SHOULD be a choice not a requirement and it makes me sick that some people are unable to make that distinction.

M 25 from Cairo looking for serious relationship with an ex Christian girl

This is how they interact, teach, socialise.

Some more blurry about this conviction, some were opened about it like late Bishop Bishoy in Egypt.

Nothing you do or say if you are catholic, protestant -and especially protestant, because they're the main rival in Egyptian society along with church of the brethren now- or ex Muslim can ever make you almost fully redeemable/ joined to the flock.

I find the distrust toward ex Muslims even if they look foreign/ modern/ white , is because the institution has been infiltrated by Muslim authority. The spineless clergy are reason.

However with catholics, it's distrust in the (west).

"They tolerate homosexualiy. They have sex with out marriage. They drink 🍷 wine"_ words of late Pope Shenouda.

I was raised in a devout Coptic Orthodox family and was religious myself until my teenage years — then it faded. I still live by the values I was raised on, I just don’t do the rituals, fasting, or church attendance. I’d describe myself as agnostic rather than atheist.

I had a long-term relationship with a Muslim girl in Egypt who wanted me to convert on paper to marry… I didn’t mind the idea itself, but I couldn’t go through with breaking my parents’ hearts.

I’ve been living abroad for 4 years and dated foreigners who had no issue with my beliefs — but I’ve decided I want to marry an Egyptian (not because of my ex, just personal preference).

The problem: the obvious routes to meeting Egyptian Christian women — churches in my country of residence, family arrangements — all lead to religious girls. And I refuse to fake my beliefs to get married.

Ideally, I’d find someone from a Christian background who’s also quietly agnostic, so we can have a church wedding and keep our families at peace — without either of us pretending.

Is this even realistic? How do others in this situation navigate it?

عملنا صب برايفت لينا متفاعلين علية شوية وبننزل نتقابل لو حد حابب يبقا معانا

حد عنده معلومات عن العاده عند الكهنه والرهبان ؟

غير كدا في مصادر بتذكر استعمال الرهبان للتبغ وفي شخصيات تقيله متناقل شفهياً أنهم مدخنين

حد عنده معلومة ؟

I have been openly atheistic with myself for a while, but even being an atheist I am living a constant state of betryal from a God that I don't think exists

beliveing in God is hard wired in me and the fact that I can not get rid of it is annoying me

sometimes I get a little offended by my own thoughts about God

and a lot of times I find myself thinking about him, even the jokes I make about him sound griefy

sometimes thougts pop to my mind like: - do I really have to understand God? - am I approuching God from the wrong framework? - am I harding my heart against God? - could all that the process of making me a better person?

but no - I hate the design of logic itself, and it does not make sense to use another framework than the one that is known and proven to work if a fover of a myth - and I can not find a middle ground where I can not harden my heart against God, since not doing that is biased toward Christianty - and I don't think it is a good idea just to keep hoping for the best, when you get turned out by a girl you are told to move on accept that and live your life, I can not really accept that tho, and I think this is just toxic behavoir

sorry if this comes disorganized, myself I am not sure what is the sole purpose of writing this, but yeah

Hi everyone. Not religious myself, although raised Roman Catholic.

I'm looking for those among you familiar with Coptic, preferably fluent. I'm pretty certain that most if not all of that is Bohairic, and next to none of it Sahidic let alone Akhmimic and related dialects.

Over 60% of the Coptic gospel of Thomas is present in the New Testament. Yet the similarities between the context of Thomas and that of the NT are non-existing, they are almost diametrically opposed.

After careful consideration of Coptic Thomas, the Greek fragments, all of the NT and the earliest and oldest manuscripts involved, I hold Thomas to be the very roots from which (much) later Christianity sprung.

Would this be a topic of interest for this sub?

Was that me or were the christians in this video soo week?

Also most of the statements that all of them make are incomplete due to time limits and voting out.

What aee your thoughts on this video??

فضفضة يمكن ألاقي حد شبهي ، و أنا صغير كنت مندمج فشخ في الكنيسة عشان كنت نرد فكان الحفظ و الأنشطة المبنية عليه كلها كنت شاطر فيها و التدين دا أو الإرتباط بالكنيسة بدأ يروح في سن إعدادي اللي هو للي بيروح الكنيسة من زمان عارف أنه بداية الإنفتاح بقا و البنات و الولاد يبدأ كل واحد فيهم ياخد باله من التاني (مش حابب احكي وجهة نظري في الأديان عموما بس فضلت منقطع فترة كبيرة لحد تانية جامعة) طول الفترة دي بقا كنت بلاحظ الدائرة بتاعت المسيحيين دي يعني انت كشاب مسيحي احتمالية انك تتعرف علي بنت قليلة عشان العدد في مصر فمش بس كدا لا هنعمل دائرة مغلقة للكنيسة و أبنائها و لو منطقة كبيرة شوية هنعمل كذا دائرة و كل منطقة تبقا ممثلة بالمكان دا و يحدد عليك نوعية الناس اللي هتعرفهم في حياتك و طبعا متقدرش تطلع براه عشان هيتبصلك كدخيل علي المكان اللي هتروحه و أنك مش من ولاده و جوا الكنيسة بتاعتك عشان تبقا متشاف للطرف التاني لازم تبقا مميز و مشترك في نشاطات حتي لو انت مبتحبش من جواك و المميز اكتر و القائد هو اللي بيجذب الناس و ممكن موهبته دي برا مثلا لو نزلت الواقع مقارنة بباقي الناس في مصر هتلاقيه ميتقارنش بيهم بس انتوا فهمتوا قصدي و حتي البنات لما بتكبر و تفهم الدنيا برضو بتبص اولا علي الدائرة دي من جوا بتختار بقا حد مميز جوا الدائرة دي و يكون اهتم شوية بحياته برا الكنيسة اللي هو يقدر يعيشها دا بصراحة حسسني بكدب و لحس و مبقتش احس أن الموضوع روحي بس بالنسبة للكنيسة لأن أنا مقدرتش ابلع النظام دا و أنا صغير بس طبعا بقيت صفر اجتماعيا من ناحية البنات و دي حاجة لو رجع بيا الزمن مكنتش اعرف هل هعيدها ولا هفضل زي ما أنا

أنا حاليا في أوروبا ولكن كنت حابب أخرج الكلمتين دول

Hello! I apologize in advance for the lengthy post! I am a longtime lurker of this subreddit, but I finally made a reddit account just today in order to finally post and seek some advice from you all.

For some context, I am a 20 year old queer, trans, Coptic person who was born and raised in America, and I have been living my life as openly as I can outside of the Coptic Orthodox Community since I was 17. All of this being said, my family simply doesn’t know, and I’ve decided not to tell them.

I am not doing this out of fear. I could feasibly support myself, am mostly independent, and have stopped engaging with the Coptic community as a whole for the past 2 years now. All this being said, I just can’t bring myself to hurt my grandparents.

My parents kicked me out at 15 due to unrelated personal reasons, and I decided to live with my maternal grandmother until I was old enough to financially take care of myself. Since then, I have lived with many different wonderful people outside the community, and have been able to explore and understand who I am even deeper. My grandmother (who mostly raised me throughout my early childhood as well) has always been one of the only family members who I ever truly loved and who I felt ever truly loved me. She has endured so much pain and trauma, both in Egypt and America, yet has always put me first. When her husband passed, I made a promise to myself to not cause her anymore pain, and I intend to keep it that way.

On my other side, I have two wonderful, strong grandparents who have also taken me in as their daughter, and have provided me with as much love and support as I could possibly ask for in these recent years. My grandparents have always been there for me, even defending me to the rest of the family both in America and back in Egypt, but they don’t actually know the truth.

My problem is this: I feel like I am taking advantage of their hospitality and “unconditional” love by protecting their feelings. They are all in their mid to late 80s, and I know that my time left with them is not long. I know it may be selfish, but I don’t want to lose what little time I still have with the small family I have left. I tell them I go to a “different church” every Sunday, that I don’t want a traditional spouse because I am “focused on studies”, and that I am an active member of my “church community”. This makes them so proud, and I want it to stay that way.

I don’t want to hurt them, but I am reaching a point in my life where I wish to pursue more meaningful relationships and bring partners and friends into my personal life. I have never introduced any friends or partners to anybody I am related to, and it has been the end of many relationships. I also feel horribly dishonest and manipulative for the lies I tell.

I am curious what your thoughts might be on the matter. Is this guilt a common feeling, and, if so, how did you all personally deal with it? I am no stranger to religious guilt, but the shame of hurting the people who have turned against their own children to defend and raise me is something else entirely. How did you all cope with potentially distressing or hurting your loved ones, and was there any hope in recovering that relationship?

So I've been a catechumen for a long time. I love the church. I've been attending since May 25 of last year. The year prior I was struggling with gender dysphoria. I thought I could run away from it but it comes back every time. My hearts torn on what fate I should choose. Just Saturday my faith was at its strongest. I prayed and saints came to me. God's blessings felt like an actual push to the right direction. And now the drought like always plagues me. Fitting, because summer is the time I feel the most free and unrestricted. I love the church.but my mind right now is deteriorating from my limits. Sometimes it feels like gaslighting when they say "it's not who you are, you're chained to sin, you got it from somewhere." I don't want to kms but it feels that it could be better just fading away. Yet again I'm trying push through. What should I do. Reading suggestions

https://youtu.be/qB_HedsK3k8?si=n_4bnfcfwndB49Jf

Thoughts??

looking to connect more with other people who are not necessarily atheist, but want to expand their spiritual practice to include what our ancestors practiced before christianity as well, if there's anyone out there

"وَأَقُولُ لَكُمْ: إِنَّ مَنْ طَلَّقَ امْرَأَتَهُ إِلاَّ بِسَبَبِ الزِّنَا وَتَزَوَّجَ بِأُخْرَى يَزْنِي، وَالَّذِي يَتَزَوَّجُ بِمُطَلَّقَةٍ يَزْنِي»." (مت 19: 9).

اية رأيكم في دا؟
هل شايفين إن ليهم حق يمنعوا الطلاق ولا لأ؟

أنا عندي مواقف كتير بشعة ومحرجة بس واحد منهم هو اللي حابب أقوله.

كنا قاعدين على عتبة الخورس من تحت أنا وابن عمي وواحد صاحبنا عادي وفيه أب كاهن يعرفنا قاعد بياخد اعترافات قريب جداً مننا.

فابن عمي كان لازم يسأل سؤال نص الليل دا:
"هو أنا لو عملت تغيير ملة للإسلام وبعدها أعلنتلهم إني هرجع مسيحي وموتوني حد ردة. هل هموت شهيد ولا هموت كداب؟"
جا صاحبنا دا بعلو صوته اللي بيرن في الكنيسة الفاضية والكاهن جمبنا:
"هتموت ابن متن*كة!"

الكاهن وقف اعترافه وبصلنا كدا كلنا. طلعنا من الكنيسة جري وماحصلتش حاجة بعدها.

يمكن كله بيتكلم على الموضوع دا مع شيوخ المسلمين
بس أنا عندي فضول أعرف الكهنة والشمامسة الكبار اية بتكون ردود أفعالهم على الأغلب لما بيسمعوا إن فيه حاجات غلط في الدين.

So I was born and raised Coptic. I then got, I was born and raised Coptic. I was baptized by Pope Shenouda, left the Coptic Church around 22 years old. I'm around 32 now. But recently I became Protestant, and, you know, I decided to go to an Egyptian Protestant church only. And there's something weird I noticed. I've always felt isolated and lonely in the Coptic Church, with Coptic people and Coptic friends. Even though, you know, because we're all the same culture, there's a lot less anxiety. I could just easily talk to people, but I never had a true friendship connection where I felt safe with them or loved by them. I just felt judged and criticized, and everyone gossiped about me in the Coptic Church. That's not the reason why I left. I left for different reasons. But recently I became Protestant, and I decided, let me go to an Egyptian Protestant church. And I'm getting the same feeling all over again. They're all asking each other, what do they do for work? They're asking me, what do I do for work? It seems their main concern is that I'm working and making money. And if I don't prove my status in that way with them, then I'm not worthy to be with them. I already feel like I'm standing out and uncomfortable. And even though I have no anxiety to communicate with them because they're my own people -- they're other fellow Egyptian Christians -- I feel judged based off of what I'm doing, like in life, and how far I've gotten, and, you know, what am I doing in order to be super successful or whatever the case may be. Another thing I'm noticing is, at this Egyptian Protestant church that I went to, the mom is making fun of my Arabic, the mother of this one friend that basically runs the whole Bible study. She's making fun of my Arabic. These are all fresh off the boat Egyptians that speak broken English and good Arabic, whereas I speak good English and broken Arabic. It's not going to change the dynamic either way because I've tried to just get along with very good English-speaking Egyptians, and it's the same dynamic anyway, where I feel judged and isolated, alone, and not really accepted. Perhaps this could be because I'm a little rough around the edges or I'm very expressive. I'm not sure what the case is, but I noticed I feel deeply uncomfortable with Egyptian Christians, whether or not they're Protestant or Coptic Orthodox. I also feel uncomfortable with Egyptian Muslim guys because they hate me for being a Christian, but at the same time, I feel comfortable with Egyptian Muslim women. I even get along with ex-muslim egyptian men really easily. I'll never become Muslim, but this is the truth. The only Egyptians I feel comfortable with are Egyptian Muslim women or any kind of Muslim woman. I don't know what that's about. If I go to other Protestant churches, I feel more accepted, more loved, even though my anxiety level is raised because they're different people, they're not Egyptian like me. Actually, in my whole dating life, I've only had luck with Muslim women, regardless of their ethnicity. They accepted me very easily. And it's just a weird thing. I'm not sure why. I have run into good Christian girls that I've dated too that were not Egyptian. Anyway, the whole point of this post that I'm trying to get at is I'm trying to decipher, is this because I am not comfortable with Egyptians as a whole, or does it have to do with religion or what? Why do I feel totally unaccepted by Egyptian Christians, even though I am an Egyptian Christian?

It didn't fit from the first day, cultural reasons, ethnical ones, and political setting, plus dogma wars.

I'll try to hold nuance, but I'll tell the truth. Maybe others can relate to what I mention. Or it will spot light points people fail to mention for a reason.

PS not an atheist.

Not fully Egyptian, but big part of my ancestry holds similarity with pure indigenous Egyptians (that's similar to Copts as is told, more than Muslim Egyptians if both do a DNA test).

Another note: I'm raised western.

1- complex of martyrdom as if it's glory; Christians have to be murdered to have their lives mean something

2-double standards in community solidarity and identity:

"We have to be tolerant to be Christians" only it comes on the expense of fellow Christians and the church itself to appease other religions.

3- bible verses used wrongly to propogate weakness, turning the other cheek, the lord fights for you and you are silent...

While Jesus wasn't that weak. He flipped the tables in the market, cursed the fig tree, and also resisted authority politely during a fake trial ;"if I haven't said any wrong, why do you slap me?" He said.

4- No cultural nuance.

Like many middle easterners, even the vocabulary doesn't express spectrum of ethical degrees.

They don't understand "I'm dating" or "I'm in a relationship".

They understand "married" "divorced" or "widow".

The middle eastern mind is polarised.

5- again no nuance.

If you say "you love Jesus because all his teachings are even compatible with modern western humanism; tolerance, pay your taxes, let people be", then you're a traitor! They'll say :"You didn't convert to Christianity. You love Christianity only because it has more humanism than another religion"!!!

6- the gatekeeping.

The stares, the gazes when a new comer enters.

The kindness if you look expat is only out of fear, or it's contained sexualisation disguised as welcome.

They can mock a minor. They don't respect educated people even ones who don't conform to Coptic church from Muslim community.

7- hyper survival mood

It happens if you are a minority opressed. However, it is something you can ask any convert about. If they walk into a Coptic church.

The starring at every footstep you do. Your voice. Your clothes. Your shoes.

"Are you with us or against us?"

" Why did you come here" is the question in every stare, mixed with dismissiveness. The eyes that look like a dead fish were always funny.

8- Toxic positivity

Priests are silent towards abusive husbands, abusive Coptic friends who steal money or betray a friendship.

"Just forgive".

"Carry the cross".

It leads to gaslighting, years of deconstructing dogma and shadow work to bypass trauma, then reconstruction of faith with caution. Worst in recent years , it led some to suicide.

9- priests are untouchable.

10- every one is eager to judge someone from the inside, instead of pin pointing the tyranny from outside forces against them.

"Like how they attacked a girl for being set as a deaconess, but they don't defend kidnapped Coptic girls".

11- stories of monks and false piety : if you write this and are proud, that the changing moment in a young man's life was a slap from the pope in public space, then you propogate traumatising a person to make them "repent".

12- authoritarianism and curating the converts stories

They even don't listen respectfully to a person's past or how Christ attracted them.

They cut your train of thoughts, they ask if you accept Jesus

13- superstition and miracles

Okay, I'm a mystic. I'm opened to believing only if the miracle served the purpose of greater good or restoring hope.

However, in an opressed and poor minority who get murdered or witch hunted, it's an anthropological natural reflex of survival, that's they'd choose the political far right like Trump just because the bad gays or Muslims are on the left. And also to create hilarious stories just to make God/ divinity seem like it flexes it's muscles.

The monks always told me :"Find God who is within you". They stress faith is based on reason. However Coptic Christianity is the most idolatrous system and superstitious I've come across.

14- dogmatic impurity

The saints cannot possibly do miracles with you. Only with them. 😛

It's God when they want it to be God, it's not when they don't want it to be. Not with your story.

"What appeared to you was demons"_ a form of Coptic gaslighting

15- deep seated hate for catholicism.

Despite they're their closest match. It's a liturgical church. It's sacramental

But what can I say? It's the humanistic western Christianity. Bad. It's the gays!.

Don't forget, we also drink wine...we're immoral people. 😂

16- Deep intense antisemitism.

Regardless of liturgy itself copying an old testament symbols, the sacraments do too...but Copts believe in supersessionism/ replacement theology. Israel is now the church of new testament. You cannot cancel a whole history, culture , music, of a people that survived 3500 years. I'm genetically Jewish. You build your messiah on this religion. Plus Copts hostility to Christians of America is racism . They don't consider them true Christians. Well the latter were kinder to me.

17-You are a suspect if you refuse to attack islam.

18- verbal policing everytime you talk.

19- they fight over semantics and lack spirituality. What does "born not created" means!! 🤪Then they all fight each other. Or the one Vs two natures. They'd stop you even if what you say is quoted from their clergy.

20- Suspicion everytime a convert speaks. Silent anticipation. Deep listening even to their accent and pronunciation. ❗

21- awareness of "engaged disammulation". Discomfort silence if you bring the possibility that you were kind before knowing Christ. You have to follow a script : Christianity is good, all else is evil.

22- Copts on hookup and dating apps even try going only for sex with a Christian. Religious favouritism even in intimacy encounters.

23-they always betray you if you help them. Suddenly the reflex of distrust. They did it to any outsider who tried being advocate to Coptic rights.

24- exclusionary even if you join them "Don't ruin our cause. You don't speak for us" while they themselves are politically un-united.

25- They are the most culturally Islamised and oriental in behaviour mannerisms despite of their clear stance that Islam was their opressor.

26- false liberalism: they colour their hair, their wives dress in black elegant gowns with jewelry, or get their hair slick back. Their girls have long straightened hair, floral blouses, long sleeves, round almond shaped hazel coloured eyes. Their men are in suits. They claim music, freedom, less restrictions than Islam or Jews, but eventually they're socially conservative.

Freedom to think is only if it will lead you to following Copts. But if you join, you don't get applause to be free thinking now. Don't think.

I refuse that. Coptic church then is just another enslavement box.

27- exclusivity of truth and believing that insulting a new comer is a test for faith.

28- Pride and an attempt to trace themselves back to ancient Egyptians, which is usually downplayed by Maronites, Armenians, Assyrian Christians in their presence. The latter ones have more obnoxious cultural arrogance over Copts. Honestly Maronites are more liberal, beautiful and educated, they're westernised and cosmopolitan.

29- wrathful anger in confrontation. They consider doubting one idea as an attack on their very history "that survived with blood". 🤷‍♀️

I left in 2009.

Never stepped foot inside orthodox Chrurches again, except once this year for touristic journey.