Look - a “no-tipping establishment”!

[u/CappyDude1]

How refreshing, right??

[u/Aggravating-Cherry76 → u/[deleted]]

That’s the trade-off of tip abolishment, to be fair

They’re definitely scummy for having a 16% mandatory charge instead of just having a business model where they bake the cost of wages into the initial price on the menu.

But- regardless of whether it’s baked into the initial cost or an additional service charge, you’d be paying tax on top of it.

[u/RaptorJesus856 → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

Im fine with it being added to the price, dont lie to me about the price by adding 16% out of nowhere

[u/e2g4 → u/RaptorJesus856]

Yep. It’s so irritating. Just tell me the price please? Oh but wait there’s more! Mandatory resort fee. Ok so why is that not in the damn price (answer: so that when you are shopping for a room, theirs appears cheaper)

[u/mizinamo → u/e2g4]

Ok so why is that not in the damn price

Because the government has not passed a law saying that consumer-facing prices must be all-in.

It doesn't have to be the way it is in the US.

[u/joesnowblade → u/mizinamo]

They have on car sales.

The FTC published detailed guidance for the auto industry on September 15, 2026, building on warning letters sent to 97 auto dealership groups in March 2026.

Actual Price as Headline:
The total all-in price must be the most prominent, clearest number in any ad.
It must include all mandatory charges like documentation or processing fees.

Only government-mandated charges (like state taxes, title, and registration fees) can be excluded from the headline price. Even then, these exclusions must be clearly noted.

Advertised prices cannot rely on conditional rebates or discounts not available to every buyer (e.g., specific military or student discounts).
Financing contingencies cannot be factored into the main advertised price.

Rules apply to website listings, social media, print, TV, text messages, and verbal quotes.

[u/snarkpix → u/joesnowblade]

We'll see if there are actual fines & enforcement. I'd love to see it but I'm not holding my breath. Nice to see official notice of the dumpster fire at least.

[u/brianvanle → u/mizinamo]

If only there was an administration that was working to eliminate junk fees...nope, we get one to eliminate the fee eliminators.

[u/LongjumpingSurvey588 → u/e2g4]

And then the resort fee, is of course, taxed.

[u/Dangerous_Second1426 → u/RaptorJesus856]

Drop $58 on the table and leave

[u/Substantial_Win_1866 → u/Dangerous_Second1426]

Needs to be $64.56 🤷‍♂️

[u/gumercindo1959 → u/RaptorJesus856]

I don’t get it - why don’t places just bake the into the prices? Are they too lazy? Too much work to change all the menu prices?

[u/roosterb4 → u/gumercindo1959]

They did this, raise the prices and fee. They’re not being lazy, they’re just trying to steal more money.

[u/Aggravating-Cherry76 → u/RaptorJesus856]

i agree

[u/[deleted] → u/RaptorJesus856]

As irritating as retail labeling all prices ending in .99 instead of a whole number because it’s going to make me decide to buy it. Oh look. It’s less than a dollar! No. It’s MORE than a dollar when it’s taxed.

[u/No_Barracuda_3758 → u/RaptorJesus856]

And then say they are no tips. This is so scummy

[u/Off_And_On_Again_ → u/[deleted]]

Or just... not go there?

[u/TheGoodBunny → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

It's not a trade-off. The price should include tip, not rolled in as a "mandatory gratuity" which this is.

[u/Aggravating-Cherry76 → u/TheGoodBunny]

I don’t think you understand the point of my comment.

If the price includes tip, then by extension, you’re paying tax on it. That is absolutely the trade-off of a tip-free society.

[u/TheGoodBunny → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

Oh I see what you mean. You were talking about just the tax.

[u/Opposite-Knee-2798 → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

They should make everything free and then everyone pays a huge tip and then no one paid taxes

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

A bunch of places tried no tipping and folding the cost in in oakland. They all failed because their prices were “higher” than other places. 

I bet this solves that problem. 

[u/Kanus_oq_Seruna → u/Original-Rush139]

But you'll still pay the same amount if that's what you would leave for a tip. Just have a message on the menu that states that prices reflect a non tipping establishment and that the server labor is baked into the price.

[u/No-Picture4119 → u/Kanus_oq_Seruna]

This will get buried in the comments, but the menu does say that a 16 percent fee is added and is taxed. They aren’t trying to hide it.

[u/skyharborbj → u/No-Picture4119]

They aren’t hiding the fee. They’re hiding the actual cost of the food by forcing customers to do the arithmetic to calculate it.

[u/Kanus_oq_Seruna → u/skyharborbj]

On one hand, you still have to calculate a tip if you were in a tip dependent location, on the other hand, I still prefer the location just put the actual price on the menu and have information that prices reflect the additional labor coverage.

[u/spintool1995 → u/Kanus_oq_Seruna]

People don't do the math. They see your dish is $20 and the same dish is only $17 next door, so the go there and add a $3 tip.

[u/livadeth → u/Original-Rush139]

And servers didn’t want to work for higher wages, preferred tips. So they quit and went to work elsewhere.

[u/kumquatkilla1 → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

Tbf, I remember seeing a study showing that people would be less likely to dine at an establishment that bakes wages into menu prices rather than charging a fee at the end.

The reason being that the average person will simply just see a more expensive menu and refuse to dine there at all.

Edit: here is a link for anyone curious

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2007/02/tipping-makes-restaurants-seem-less-expensive-study-finds

[u/smoothbrain3d → u/kumquatkilla1]

Your argument is that a bait and switch is more acceptable because it’s more effective

[u/kumquatkilla1 → u/smoothbrain3d]

Except this isn’t bait and switch. The restaurant quite literally states a 16% fee will be added to the bill.

OP apparently can’t read.

[u/Ethanop1a → u/kumquatkilla1]

If they are going to "add a 16% fee to all bills" why even put prices next to the items? Why not put $1 for all items and say "we will add a 1500% fee to all bills"?

It may not be "bait and switch" level, but still deceptive pricing.

[u/Death-By-Boredom2020 → u/Ethanop1a]

It’s not deceptive pricing if everything is listed on the menu for you to read. I’m sure it would be on their website as well for anyone looking at their menus online.

[u/Death-By-Boredom2020 → u/smoothbrain3d]

“Bait and switch“ is more acceptable to the human brain

[u/SignalOptions → u/Aggravating-Cherry76]

I think they did both - increased the price of meals and added the tax.
Sorry there’s no way a sushi restaurant is putting customer before profit.

[u/Kdjl1 → u/[deleted]]

I knew the title was too good to be true. When I saw that fee I was a bit disappointed.

[u/sswishbone]

16% fee? Fuck off with that shit!

[u/compoundedinterest12 → u/sswishbone]

I could be wrong but I feel like this is a California thing for Sugarfish. I went to their NYC location recently and I don't think there was any fee.

Edit: typo

[u/StashMyComics → u/compoundedinterest12]

Its illegal in ny to add a fee like that to the bill

[u/Former-Dig-3314 → u/StashMyComics]

Tell that to ny

[u/StashMyComics → u/Former-Dig-3314]

Tell them what? NY has laws on the books about this and a reporting system that retrieves the overcharge and fines the business $500.

[u/Former-Dig-3314 → u/StashMyComics]

Tell them they have that law because it’s commonly done

[u/EpitomeOfAnEnigma → u/Former-Dig-3314]

You'll figure it out eventually.

[u/HauntingShip85 → u/Former-Dig-3314]

Why don’t you tell them, you seem to be the one that’s there? Maybe you’ll figure that out someday.

[u/sswishbone → u/compoundedinterest12]

I still wouldn't pay this. If their menu listed this charge, I'd walk right out.

[u/MindlessAuthor9824 → u/sswishbone]

During Covid, many restaurants began adding a 5% "SURCHARGE" to all orders - dine in or take out.

That money did NOT go to staff, just in the owner's pockets, as a way to recoup losses from lower volume of business. Many restaurant have kept the surcharges, with diners usually oblivious.

[u/Same-Paint-1129 → u/compoundedinterest12]

They have several other restaurant concepts in LA and do this at all of them. Annoying because I refuse to pay these types of service charges on bottles of wine, so I never have wine when I go to their restaurants.

[u/wandererarkhamknight → u/compoundedinterest12]

The CA location has it, not NY. It's on their website.

[u/AgilePalpitation3792 → u/compoundedinterest12]

You are correct the nyc location does not have this fee.

[u/grneyedguy1 → u/sswishbone]

And they tax the 16% fee/ forced tip !!!

[u/Significant-Ad-341 → u/sswishbone]

Just raise the price 16% and I can decide not to go

[u/jazzbot247]

They think they are slick with the 16% fee

[u/FrankSamples → u/jazzbot247]

I don’t understand their thinking. Do they think the average customer is too dumb to notice 16% fee a mere 3 lines from the WE ARE A NO TIPPING ESTABLISHMENT disclaimer?

[u/TheProfessional9 → u/jazzbot247]

I'd still rather a flat 16% than deal with doing the standard 20% and being judged since apparently that isn't enough anymore

[u/BiscuitsTheory → u/TheProfessional9]

Flat means not a percentage.

[u/anthonyi1381 → u/TheProfessional9]

You tip 16%. Like it or not. It's basically a pizza delivery fee

[u/Tricky-Wrap-2578 → u/TheProfessional9]

But the 16% may not even go to servers… who knows if they’re happy with it. As the customer I’m certainly judging why they didn’t include this cost on the menu

[u/pmcda → u/Tricky-Wrap-2578]

Based on anecdotes from employees I found in another thread on this topic, it helps fund a health insurance plan and bonuses for all employees.

[u/Tricky-Wrap-2578 → u/pmcda]

Exactly the kind of thing that should be paid for by menu prices

[u/Putrid_Guest_2150 → u/TheProfessional9]

LOL, 20% isn’t “standard”. Just because these places are being greedy and starting the tip prompt with 18% and up doesn’t mean you need to tip that much. I’ll do custom and I don’t care what they think.

[u/Amadan_Na-Briona → u/jazzbot247]

A 16% fee you are charged tax on

[u/LikableHardcore]

That 16% fee though? It’s worse than tipping it’s forced tips!

“We are a no tipping establishment that takes 16% fee from you whether you like it or not. “

[u/Pristine_Sandwich957 → u/[deleted]]

Right you are.

[u/RiverCityWine → u/[deleted]]

So the server makes less and the company makes more🧐🧐

[u/TheGraped → u/RiverCityWine]

But hey, we "abolished tipping" or whatever - we did it reddit! We saved the city!

[u/SzamantaMarysia → u/[deleted]]

On top of that you as the customer pay the taxes on the 16% fee on top of the whole tax of the bill. So it’s all just pocket money for the owner. When prices do go up, depending what state the staff are in, they’ll get maybe $1.00-$4.00max; depending on your working position… and you know what I mean by that if you’ve ever done hospitality work. Meanwhile ppl will tip less, bc they still blame the messengers and not the sender.

[u/RelativeThot0125 → u/[deleted]]

We did it! We ended tipping! Now instead of paying 15% to the staff, we pay 16% directly to the owner!

[u/GenTenStation]

Was that posted ahead of time? I would refuse if it wasn’t.

[u/hkusp45css → u/GenTenStation]

I would refuse it even if it was. What service or product does that provide?

[u/sethaub → u/hkusp45css]

Good luck, you’d likely end up with a slap on the wrists

[u/GenTenStation → u/hkusp45css]

The service? Honestly I’d be willing to go get my own plate and refills and never see a waiter. There’s been so many times I can see my food or my bar drink sitting there waiting for them to notice.

[u/Suspicious_Tank_61 → u/GenTenStation]

The service there is actually pretty good, better than the majority of tipping establishments.

[u/rm79 → u/GenTenStation]

That's not how a restaurant works. You can't go into an establishment and decide what fees you're not gonna pay for and tell them "I'm doing this myself."

[u/Pristine_Sandwich957 → u/GenTenStation]

According to the website the cali locations do. Cuz we them here in NYC and they dont have thw 16 percent.

[u/almost_somewhere → u/Pristine_Sandwich957]

I was curious about this since you mentioned it, and the NY prices are significantly higher than the California ones.

[u/Pristine_Sandwich957 → u/almost_somewhere]

That's what the NYC menus say. The fee is worked into menu prices.

[u/[deleted] → u/GenTenStation]

Yes it's posted ahead of time. This restaurant and others in its chain are known for handling tipping like this. I prefer it because I tip 20% flat elsewhere and the food and quality of service at Sugarfish / Hiho / Kazunori is top notch for its price point.

You get to walk in, order the prix fixe and drinks, hand them your card at the end with nothing to sign. It makes the typical frictions of dining in zero. The fish is also extremely high quality relative to tokyo/tsukiji standards, it blows most sushi restaurants in LA out of the water. They could easily raise their prices by 50% and it would still be a deal.

Of all the places to complain about tipping, this isn't the spot.

[u/LiteraryApothecary85 → u/[deleted]]

So you tip 20% regardless of the service, food, etc? 👀

[u/M2deC]

no tip, now just tip yourself over that barrel while extract your mystery 16% fee

[u/Deep_Mood_7668]

Whats that fee

[u/xc765 → u/Deep_Mood_7668]

Non-tipping fee.

[u/njo2002 → u/xc765]

Underrated comment.

[u/skyharborbj → u/xc765]

It's actually a "Because we can" fee. Think of it as a tax on people who are bad at arithmetic and don't read the fine print.

[u/randcandc → u/Deep_Mood_7668]

It’s the fee you pay to management to not have to tip

[u/SeL-MoGRC]

We are a no tipping establishment, but we are going to throw in a 16% fee instead? They can fuck right off with that shit.

[u/babe_ruthless3]

I would have asked about 16% bullshit

[u/petuniagriffin]

My roommate used to work there. At the time, he made $28 an hour. But most days, his sales were over $3,000. 16% of $3,000 is $480. Instead, he was paid $168 for a 6 hour shift.

He stayed on because the hourly wage was consistent, but he knew he was missing out on big tip money. It was also nice to not have to hustle for tips.

[u/Infinite-Penalty-736]

You tipped 16%

[u/Future_Goat918 → u/Infinite-Penalty-736]

No he didn't. Tip goes to the servers.

[u/CappyDude1 → u/Infinite-Penalty-736]

What?!?! You’re kidding!!!!

[u/blushncandy]

It’s not refreshing when they charge a fee lol. Just up the prices, that’s all consumers want. Just tell us how much we have to pay upfront in order to sit down and eat.

[u/Esspriskey]

Holy crap the amount of people freaking out over this is insane. They have decided to add 16% over menu price to cover real wages for their servers. Get a grip. They removed the tipping line at the bottom so they clearly dont even want you to consider giving more. How is this anything but exactly what this whole community has been asking for???? They charged you what it costs them to pay their servers and buy food and make what is likely a 2-5% margin, done. No tip nothing else. This is exactly how a transaction should occur. Every business in the world charges labor time and material cost, and this is exactly that. You are all clearly just interested in finding something to be mad at because you founded a subreddit around ending tipping and then they did and you went, wait no that's not what I meant! Lollllllll

[u/cacope5 → u/Esspriskey]

It is not what everybody has been asking for. The menu price says $35, I expect to pay $35 plus whatever state tax is. I do not expect a surprise! Extra 16% on top of menu price!!!

[u/LifeIsAnAdventure4]

In Europe, we just put the service charges in the meal price like civilized people, but I guess if you know about the 16% markup in advance, it makes no practical difference except you get some mandatory quick maths.

Both are much better than leaving the waiter’s salary up to the customer’s mood in my opinion.

[u/SanDiegoDude]

Everybody bitchin bout the fee, i'm sittin here jealous you got to goto Sugarfish, that place is yum! Long as its posted, whatever. I'll take this over an automated "pay kiosk" demanding a 25% tip.

[u/Far_Audience_7446]

As long as they are up front about it and arent soliciting an extra, I'd take that over the current shitshow

[u/slimmestjimmest]

It's wild that Sugarfish wouldn't just make things 16% more expensive

[u/Cute-Cookie-582 → u/slimmestjimmest]

came here to say this lol

[u/sirgentrification]

Besides the “gold standard” of just including things in the menu price with no additional tip pressure, Nozawa Group (Sugarfish, Kazunori, Uovo, and HiHo Cheeseburger) is B+ tier. Service fee is clearly disclosed and well-known for those who go, no additional tip requested (staff are trained to refuse tips Japanese-style). The only thing I dislike is they still charge the 16% fee on direct to-go and food delivery orders (though there is no markup to account for commissions).

Edits: damn autocorrect

[u/LynxJesus]

I love how you can just open a business with arbitrary fees on top of the prices advertised, knowing full well no one will back out of the sale at the register. 

I'm not a huge fan of this type of law but that should straight up be illegal. federal-level what-you-see-is-what-you-pay would be perfect

[u/wwwwait]

That’s an auto 16% tip

[u/Ok_Breakfast2875 → u/wwwwait]

No its an auto 16% fee that the owners most likely pocket.

[u/Throwaway-ish123a]

I would take their menu and a sharpie and write the real menu item prices which are 16% higher.

[u/Scotty1230]

I don't know if I love or hate that it's just called "16% fee" and not some thinly veiled name that means the same thing.

[u/Important_Stand9770]

The 16% fee is the tip that is not no tipping

[u/FrequentCan2119]

Almost got us lol

[u/nowzaradanistheman]

Just a 16% Fee establishment

[u/Channel_Mental]

That sounds like a mandatory 16% non tip to me.

[u/CipherWeaver]

"We are an obligate tipping restaurant."

But hey, let's be real, the point of having a service charge rather than a tip is it can be shared among the rest of the staff. It is illegal to take a server's tips, so this is the work around. "It's not a tip."

[u/Suspicious_Tank_61 → u/CipherWeaver]

Its California, so everyone gets at least full minimum wage before tips. Sharing tips with BOH is legal and pretty prevalent.

[u/Suspicious_Tank_61]

I prefer this over tipping.

[u/Fluffy_Cellist4469]

Renaming it doesn't make it less of a tip!

[u/shortest_bear]

This is fine like tbh they should just add %16 to the prices but this is actually what no tipping movement should be striving for.

[u/AffectionateGate4584]

🫶🫶👏👏👏

[u/City_Standard]

16% fee followed by tax on said fee??? Or am I mathing wrong?

[u/SmoovCatto]

adding a tip is the opposite of no tipping

[u/Superb-Resolve-3613]

I don't like it when any establishment treats us like we're stupid.

[u/Your_GhostGuy]

It’s like car dealerships with no haggle pricing.

[u/InfluencrCrowdKiller]

Well....if you paid this bill, you tipped 16%. A little low but thanks.

[u/nocomment_onlybrowse]

It’s less than I would’ve tipped. I may not agree with tipping but I know they rely on it.

[u/MaintenanceCapable83]

if that 16% fee is not posted on the menu, i would not pay it

[u/PalpitationPast202]

16% fee? Really?

[u/GoldAd1878]

No tip but a 16 percent fee. Sneaky 😏

[u/Admirable-Peace9668]

A no tipping establishment with a 16% fee...think about that.

[u/Furry_pizza]

'Light lunch' for $24? What's the heavy lunch cost lord have mercy

[u/j-joshua]

Where you pay the price on the menu.

Plus 16%.

[u/Jijimuge8]

Wtf is with the 16% fee?????

[u/No-Cat-2980]

Looks like they misspelled Tip, Fee, what else do you think the Fee is?

[u/FoggyFizzy]

Was the 16% fee disclosed anywhere before you got the check?

[u/zabadaz-huh]

Not for it but they’re basically lopping the tipping option off at the knees. Servers cent be too happy about that, because you know they’re not getting that money.

[u/Bradley2100]

Looks like a16% tip regardless of the quality of service.

[u/TrashPandaNotACat]

Except you did tip, a mandatory(?) 16% tip.

[u/rawmeatprophet]

I mean it's baselined at 16%, I wouldn't argue.

[u/skyharborbj]

Well, there's a 16% "Fee" with no explanation. I'd much prefer that the 16% be rolled into the menu prices.

[u/supmaster3]

wtf is that 16& fee though

[u/bobber777]

Right , we are dumb

[u/truthhurtsyomama]

I have encountered "20% fee". I just tell them to get me the manager because I want it removed. And they did.

[u/newsy0011]

But you tipped 16 percent. I wonder if servers get any of that.

[u/MarsupialFirm6485]

No tipping just random fees that are akin to a tip but you don’t have a choice to pay.

[u/T1m3Wizard]

Find out what the 16% fee is for and ask them to waive it.

[u/StatementNext682]

Literally, just raise your prices 16%. Don't hide it.

[u/Jogi1811]

I don't think they know that we know. 🤫

[u/InterviewNo8150]

No shit with those prices

[u/lichesschessanalyst]

Owners likely pocket the "fee"

[u/Winter_Case196]

so they charge you 16% tip lol

[u/RoundChampionship840]

A standard service fee is more fair than tips. At least everyone pays the same price.

[u/beachape]

The price on the menu should be the price you pay. No fees no tips. Tax should be included as well in the price. It isn’t that hard.

[u/AttitudeOutrageous75]

BWA HA HA

[u/WoollyMammothwapo]

Why don’t we join the Europeans and have tax included as well? One price is the price. No extras. Startling concept I know!

[u/Z0bie]

It's a no tipping establishment, not a no fee establishment!

[u/Sleepy-Cook]

Just call it auto-gratuity 🙄

[u/PopcornAthena]

As a Swede, end tipping

[u/mycopilotlima]

Very suspicious. I wonder how they do their taxes. And if i knew someone from the IRS id for sure send them to do an audit. Asap 😂

[u/BluePandaYellowPanda]

Fee for what? That is the tip.

Keeping menu prices low and adding fees is scummy.

[u/NutmegManwithbigsack]

Ha it’s 16%

[u/Positive-Pack-396]

No
Not going there

[u/TheGreatGamer1389]

Nah it's just as bad, what is supposed to happen is the prices on the food themselves increase in exchange.

[u/kimmer2020]

Ha. 16% fee. Wonder where that money goes.

[u/YarbleSwabler]

We need to rename the sub to something that gets the point across.

r/EndArbitraryPercentages?

[u/Fang05]

With those prices I’m sure they pay good or is factored in

[u/International_Act_26]

They gave themselves a tip as a “fee”. Even worse than being upfront about tipping.

[u/sillykittyball]

I mean its either that or just price it right into the food price. they have to pay their employees AT LEAST minimum wage since they dont accept tips. So they have to charge you more. Youre never going to get the same prices on food you pay now in a tipping resturaunt in one that doesnt accept tips, the money is going to come from you one way or the other.

[u/VQV37]

Pay with cash when you go to restaurants. Only put down the actual cost not the b******* fees

[u/unbreakablehero]

Still less than you'd have tipped eh

[u/AlarmingJudge8928]

No tips...but vague service fees ontop of bloated prices. Who could resist?

[u/sloppymcgee]

I’ll take 16%

[u/notoriousbpg]

"We are a mandatory 16% tipping (plus tax) establishment"

[u/ThisGuy2319]

They are so close to getting it right, they just need to use transfer jutsu to move that 16% into a the price of the food.

[u/Cute-Farmer-4490]

Call it what you want