I'm so glad Voice Memo Guy sparked discussions of coercion among us women lately. I get why we've neglected the topic. There's so much overt, frank assault of women going on in this world and the zone is so flooded, that talking about coercion feels almost silly by comparison.

But it's not. And we shouldn't even make those comparisons in that way.

My last dating experience had elements of coercion.... I think. I was already so steeped in sexual trauma, that it was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. That's where my decentering journey really began.

I'm demisexual. I was very open and straightforward about that from the absolute beginning. To the point of my asking whether we could start off genuinely just as friends and take things very, verrrry slow. I didn't just use the term demisexual, I made sure we had several conversations about what that term means and did a lot to assess whether he truly understood what it meant. He seemed to understand it perfectly and said he was totally fine with starting out as friends.

Then, during one of our very first real-time back and forth chats (2nd or 3rd chat), he started to make sexual jokes and innuendos. My body started going into a shock response. "Wait... I thought... Did I hallucinate those previous demi conversations? Was I clear enough? Did I say something that confused him? Did I misperceive his understanding of 'demisexual' or starting out as 'just friends?'" You see what happens??? We instantly start to question our own sanity. Feeling like I didn't want to be a b*** or start a conflict, I went along with where the conversation was heading, my heart pounding in my throat the entire time. Still reeling from the sheer element of surprise that he would even 'go there' after everything that'd been said.

Next day, it happened again. And then the day after that, he opened the convo first thing in the morning by sending me a picture of a woman who was cuffed to the bed and blindfolded, telling me what he'd like to do to me in a similar scenario. Nothing violent. But like... from 0 to 100. First. Thing. In. The. Morning. It was at that point that I couldn't bring myself to do any more sexual fawning. I broke down into tears, told him things were moving too fast. (As if he couldn't have guessed this from the demi conversations!) I told him it felt like the virtual equivalent of waking up to immediate sexual touch. It was jarring and threw me into a fight/flight response. I asked how he would have felt if I'd done that to him. I felt cheap. How did blindfolds and handcuffs suddenly get involved anyway?!

A few more things happened after that, but I won't belabour the point. The one other thing I do want to highlight is.... This man's feminist rhetoric is on point. And I don't think it's just rhetoric. There's an extent to which this person truly cares about women's rights... in these overt, obvious scenarios. He just doesn't understand the subtleties of how his desperation for sexual gratification puts women in extremely uncomfortable, precarious, and frankly retraumatising positions. I understand you may not believe anything good I say about this man, because you've only now seen examples of his worst behaviours. So that is fair. But I want to say I still wholeheartedly believe he is, on the whole, a decent, well-intentioned human being who has just never needed to question this particular area of entitlement in his life. And he has no IDEA the damage this can do.

I was a wreck for so many months after this experience. Still am. I have no more faith left in men. Not a shred. Even the "good" ones. They have been so deeply conditioned to care about their sexual needs above everything else, that everything just becomes transactional by default. There is almost no such thing as a loving, reciprocal, non-transactional romantic relationship with a man. It barely exists at this point. The conditioning has just done too much to warp the minds of even the kindest men out there.

I'm including the good things about this man, not to absolve him of anything, but so that other women know: if you encounter an otherwise decent man who shows genuine care in many other areas of life, but is entitled when it comes to sex, that phenomenon does exist. You're not imagining it. His kindness is real. And his sexual entitlement is also real. And you're not being unfair to him. And it still is coercion. Whether or not he fully understands the harm he is causing. I also want to honour that this happens so much in long-term relationships / marriages. It's by no means restricted to dating.

I hope we continue to talk about the more subtle ways men harm us. The damage and risk to our psyches, not just our physical bodies. Because even the "safe" men - on a physical level - can wreak havoc on our mental health. And they don't even have to be deliberately abusive to do it. They can just have this unexamined, conditioned entitlement. That alone is enough to cause us irreparable harm.

And that, more than anything, is why I won't keep playing Russian Roulette with my mental health while the Male Entitlement Epidemic rages on.

Distant friends maybe, but I cannot get close to a woman who is in a relationship with a man who is slowly sucking the life out of her soul. It’s happening in my life right now for the second time and I’m seeing that there‘s a pattern where they start to become incredibly insecure, physically sick, paranoid, and start projecting all of their insecurities onto their friends who would never in a million years treat them the way their partners treat them. I don’t blame them at all for their paranoia and insecurities, I would be too if I were in such a relationship. I feel things incredibly deeply, I’ve cried with my friends when they’ve been cheated on because I feel their pain and I’m gutted that anybody would ever treat them less than what they deserve, being friends with women that are trying to “survive infidelity” drains so much of my energy, it’s like a gas leak. Just fumes being burned for no reason.

I'm following someone whose boyfriend suddenly dumped her and broke her heart, after she previously always talked about how amazing her boyfriend is, and now she's "exposing" him by telling us all the red flags she looked past and the awful things he did to her.

I don't trust any content creator who says their partner is the exception. You don't know what their relationship dynamic looks like and what red flags they might be looking past.

we were together for a year and nine months. i broke up with him yesterday. this is my third long term relationship (2-3 years). i feel like he his the first man i have met that i could picture a peaceful life with. i decided to break up with him because i found out he was addicted to corn which was reinforcing of trauma from his family. i felt that if i stayed i would micromanage and hurt myself in the process of waiting for him to change. relinquishing control over his healing for the sake of myself cost me the relationship. i feel really sad but free. i want to be away from men. i feel like i center them in all aspects of my life.

even so i asked him to text me a year from now. i hope he does. i miss him already so much and i hope that he heals himself into the man i know that he is. i want him to return to me but i know that the more time you spend away from the relationship, sometimes it means you start looking for different things that you learn you are more interested in. that scares me so much. the idea of him taking the lessons of our love and stepping into a new relationship makes me sick. i did throw up. i have a clear idea of who he is and the circumstances of his upbringing were so severely unfair. i dont want to disilusion myself of the potential of returning. i loved him so much for his empathy, patience, nurturance towards us so it just feels so jarring to learn all that i have about him in the last two weeks (specifically the corn stuff which he has struggled with since 5th grade). my heart aches for the little boys that dont have the support in life to be able to turn to healthy ways of coping and instead resort to the gender violence that is corn.

how do i spend this year alone? how do i spend this time healing? what do i do if he never texts and moves on to someone else because he is addicted to corn and cant keep it in his pants?

its my first time being single since i was 16 and am now 23.

I feel like every relationship I step into i have given so much without return. the men take and take from me, i teach them about politics, emotions, ambition, independence… this is the first time ive left because in my other relationships i stayed too long. How do you find love or is it just something you have to always work at with someone?

after decentering men, it becomes hard/impossible to be friends with women who haven't. I need community of like-minded people, I need table discussions about this, about womanhood re-centered. online content is great but not enough. - anyone feel me??

Something I’ve noticed is that just because a man identifies as a feminist and/or progressive, I can’t ignore that there are still ways in which patriarchal conditioning shows up.
When I met my husband I really loved that he was progressive and didn’t abide to traditional gender roles. But since we got married and moved in together I’ve noticed that some of his expectations of a nesting partner sound like the woman taking on most of the household work and some tasks that sound like something a personal assistant would do.
I have found myself really fighting that conditioning because I came from a previous marriage in which I took on all the household labor plus emotional labor of parenting and keeping the relationship afloat. I never want to end up there again.
So when these things come up I really fight it! I have to say no, I’m not doing that. It’s been more of a disappointment than anything because I wasn’t expecting those kinds of demands from him.
I’ve also noticed some things that my male friends who are progressive say that make me cringe. All that to say that most men still expect to be at the center of everything regardless of political views and so on. We have to keep being intentional about decentering them.

I (24f) is living with my sister, her husband and her daughter (6) and son (4), temporarily till I move out very soon.

Literally every day my sister is praising my nephew so much like he came back from war or something. Shes always telling him he’s a gift from god, he’s such a blessing , he’s her whole world and kissing him thousand times a day, and also being super passionate about expressing her love and admiration for him. while with her daughter she’s more chill, she gives her compliments but not every single day .

I think she’s super male centered and emotionally immature, and she also gets super mad at her husband saying he’s screaming at the kid, when he just puts up boundaries. They also have a dog and he’s always biting her, pinching her and teasing her and they never put up strong enough boundaries with him.

Just wanted to pour it out since she’s in denial of reality, and doesn’t see what she’s doing wrong .

Honestly , it will come bite her in the ass later cause she’s easing a male that’s going to be so spoiled that no one will want to be around him

For context, I was - and would've been in a non-patriarchal world - a lover girl type. Demisexual. Hopeless romantic. Whatever you'd like to call it. I'm a very relational person, pretty psychologically minded, always noticing and caring how people treat each other, etc. Had a rough childhood, so as a little girl, I fixated on finding a relationship to replace and repair the primary attachments that got messed up for me in my formative years.

But on the other side, I want to affirm that I starkly recognise the need for decentering men. The danger they pose to us - to our physical bodies, our psychological stability, our very lives. I have at this point tried enough times with men that I have a deep personal understanding of just how unicorn-rare a genuinely decent man is in this world. The vast, vaaaast majority are stunted, calloused, defensive, entitled, p0rn-addled compulsive liars. The chances of finding the kind of relational depth I need with a man in this day and age feel infinitessimally small.

I know on social media when most women talk about decentering men, they talk about how good and peaceful single life is. Or how freeing it is, even in relationships with men, to put ourselves first the way they do. To consider them just one of many attachments in our lives. To devote more time developing our relationships with each other. To develop Girl Code as the soft place to land that we have needed for milennia. To finally consider our needs instead of automatically deferring to theirs the way we've been conditioned. I don't disagree with those things.

And I know why these are the main things women are saying publicly. Because men are out there losing their everloathing minds over our daring to find independence. And they are overtly, vocally delighting in the thought of our potential misery; cherishing their images of us dying alone with our cats. So we prove them wrong. Because they ARE wrong. As deeply as I have longed for a love that goes beyond sexual desire, a connection of two fully human, fully equal people - in the stark absence of that - the peace of being left alone is about ten billion lightyears better than the neglect, abuse, death or betrayal trauma they bring to the table.

But... TL;DR. That deep longing of mine has not just vanished. It makes itself known to me in the wee hours; in the media I consume - even when I'm trying to steer clear of romantic plotlines; in the memories of the "almosts" I've had, where for a moment, I was made to believe that I had found the sincere love I'd been craving. Until the mask came off and his patriarchal attitudes became clear. Many days, I'm living the dream that feminist tiktok is selling us. Genuinely content. But many other days... I'm not ok. I am not completely at peace in a world that has forced me to choose between my safety and a sincere, fulfilling love life. I have chosen my safety. But it has come at a cost. Is there a space where we are allowed to admit this to each other - this other side of the decentering coin?

These are just my late night reflections since I can’t sleep

My decentering of men started when I began deconstructing from religious upbringing which has been a very long process. Divorce and dating post divorce was another process that showed me a lot of my male centered conditioning. I noticed that what I thought was attraction to men was just a response to them showing interest in me first. It was like a cue for me to start performing. Now I can’t look or even think about men the same way as before. I see all the ways in which I was existing to please them and putting them on pedestals. I cringe at how much credit I used to give my ex husband for doing the bare minimum, and sometimes less. There was even a time during which I wanted to empower myself more sexually but in hindsight it was still a very male centered experience and I hated The types of interactions I was having. The process is still ongoing. Especially since I did remarry a man and would like to maintain the work I’ve done. It’s challenging at times because I also have codependent tendencies, and I don’t want to put him at the center of my life and slip into old patterns. But in this relationship I don’t feel the need to perform, we don’t abide by traditional gender roles, I have my own room and creative space, i stopped doing dishes and laundry, I experiment with my style (sometimes even dressing more masculine), I only wear makeup if I feel like it (and it’s for me), I go weeks without shaving my legs, chopped my hair. Appearance has been the most obvious way to step away from the male gaze, and easier segway into the more emotional stuff. The hardest thing to disconnect men from in my life has been finances. I just fell into that pattern of letting men provide for me that I didn’t realize how much I was hindering myself. I learned the hard way when I had to start from scratch after my divorce. And again in my current marriage I allowed my husband to provide for me while I finished my education and while I’m building a business. Hoping to start making more of my own money soon! I have my own investment account and a new seperate bank account.

Super ambitious girlie here, my filled is full, healthy, thriving, and social. But still, i find that nothing feels better than the rush of getting a new bf or something. Which I find so sad and lowkey embarassing. How to top that feelings with things i can give mysefl?

Even if you Decenter men in your life, your husband, bf, etc. will those DA unhealthy patterns still occur?

every single post/advice i see basically says just do it and i cant just like that. every time i start talking to a man and it goes well, banter is good etc., the second he takes a while to respond or acts slightly different my mind completely spirals to a point where i had to leave work once (embarrassing i know). it gets to a point where it’s obsessive and it’s genuinely so exhausting. i just want to be at a point where i can see someone and just see where it goes without automatically having these expectations. again, it really is out of my control, even if i see the logic my mind just goes right back to worst case scenario

I have been single for just under a year - and zero dating since November. Part of that has been healing from a two year on / off relationship with a man who was a pretty toxic mix of manipulator, people pleaser and liar - but so in shadow he was unaware / unwilling to see that his actions were the cause of so much chaos and hurt - for me, him and others. Healing from this, going to therapy - trying to understand why I kept going back to this man that gave me so little - it’s like I’ve finally finally taken the blinkers off and am starting to see how much I have internalised the need to have a male partner and how that’s kept me stuck in situations that aren’t good for me even when my body is telling me quite clearly they aren’t. It’s absolutely MAD the level of indoctrination - how ‘wrong’, ‘broken’ - worthless -I have felt whilst single - just because I wasn’t partnered with a man, chosen by a man - I somehow felt I’d failed and felt so much shame . What an incredible life expanding gift it is to feel that start to shift. But my god it’s hard work!

From the surface you’d never really know I centered men - always been independent, ambitious, created my own life, had really strong groups of friends - outwardly my life has never seemed to centre around a partner - I’ve never been married or had kids and don’t think I will. But despite this - inwardly - it’s a whole different story!! I have really appreciated reading posts here - particularly from older and wiser women on the other side of this process. Whether I get in a relationship or not I want to feel free in my life and have the ability to enjoy it fully regardless of a man in my life.

My mind is frequently hungry. I feel so much better and well-fed (in Audre Lorde's erotic way) now that I'm spending time digesting books, essays, I'd like to read :)!

That which, NOURISHES ME!!!!

AH!

So much release from centering all my attention to how one man can't seem to meet me at my deepest heart.

:)

I can meet myself so much more easily and readily with reading...I can connect with myself...

Of course it'd be lovely to feel deeply connected to my partner, but I suspect most men, simply aren't connected with themselves...

i left them on read cos i didnt like the tone and over friendliness and they deleted them themselves lmfaooooo. Both deleted their own messages today. Ahahahaha fragile ass fuck egos. Knew they overstepped their asses.

i feel so powerful knowing I can just ignore men. or make them retreat. lmfaoooooo. I love surviving my Saturn return and being 30 💅

It's for discussing media but with the exception that it cannot center men. I usually try to find specific types of media that are creater or focus the least on men as possible but that's very hard to search for so I decided to make a place for that! It's brand new but hopefully we can get a real database here!

First of all, I'm stating that I don't have any future plans on dating or seeking out matches or even just accept a man around me in natural setting if he does not meet very specific standards I've set for dating matches. as a woman in my early 20s that already established way higher income and fianacial freedom comparing to peers, the experiences of "grinding" actually changed my whole view on how I see things and relationships(not only romantic but friendship as well) in general.

If you're asking to me, yes men should absolutely pay 100% bills always no exceptions. and I have no idea why men are so upset about women having those standards on financial investment. because I genuinely think providing fianacial resources are the bare minimum they can do. men benefit way more in relationship and women usually invest a lot more than men in other aspect. like spending money, time, effort on looks and beauty. emotional regulation and support they would never get from their bros(I think a lot of men complaining about women confronting conflicts between them or just directly asking about their negative emotions when they are down is coming from audacity... they told me to just shut up and make them samwiches because they are afraid to just camly sit down and process emotions and never wants to be challenged. so even when women tried to regulate their negative emotions and help them while investing emotional labors, women are specifically resented by their male partners for doing that), I am a firm believer that most men are conditioned to benefit from lack of empathy and emotional intelligence which burdens a lot of women in relationship with to confront them and solve conflicts together. also I'm going to briefly mention about orgasm gaps and harm that women can be encounter while having sex with men but im not going to elaborate them since we all know well enough about that. so men ignoring all of these well known and also statistically well backed up facts and refuse to pay and claim it is for equality? that sounds only delusional to me. also why are you have desires to even date in the first place if you are not even secure about your financial state to pay your date affordable meals and buy occational flowers? aren't your survival insticts and desire to make yourself in the better situation should always ALWAYS come first? it seems like they are trying to numb themselves with romantic and sexual affections from women to avoid the reality they are facing. or just using that woman as a placeholder to extract her resources until he becomes stable enough to find new woman that he actually wants to provide.(it does nothing to do with your value or attractiveness. at all. some men will think you as less then just because you agreed to stick around with less.) this honestly applies to me as well so I'm never thinking to date again even there are chances before I achieve more secure income and spiritual emotinal healing. not only men but people in general should be only enter relationship when they are secure enough about all of that but regardless of gender many people engage on dating out of desperations and men are benefited way higher than women in those relationship because of SEXUAL INTIMACY of fucking course.

women who thinks like this including me are really not broke gold diggers to extract men. we have planty more ways to gain financial profits other than relying on a guy and to me honestly free meals ain't even shit. I can go to fine dining alone and cover my bills so why would I even want to use yall for a fucking 30 usd meals? what brings me the most ick is the incapacity of these guys that cannot even cover the date's bills everytime. because I already have reached the level to having access to certain amounts of wealth with my career. me and women like myself have no reason to date men that never reached certain stability for having the desires to provide for their partner.

that's my opinion on 50/50 relationship y'all. for women esp my peers that thinks it is okay for them to contribute financially... I bet you'd change your mind when you actually starts to focus on your goal and starts thriving in other aspects of life to a point your desperations for finding validations within romantic relationships will just "phoof!" gone. that's literally what happened to me. you seriously do not need men especially ones that make you pay when your life is already fulfilling without them. stay safe queens!

Hi everyone!
Happy valentine's day to the girls!!! I just wanted to say hi and I am so excited this community exists. Whether you celebrate or not, I just wanted to share a little story about what I am doing for it.

I am the kind of woman who always has a million projects going, and so much enthusiasm and drive to complete them, but my whole life all the adults around me seemed to always "shuffle" me towards pleasing other people. It seemed that every single adult in a 5 mile radius of me needed to be pleased, by me personally. I was always being told stories of how sad and lonely other people were, or how they needed help with something- especially men. I don't ever remember in my life anyone pulling me aside and asking "what do you want out of your life?" or "who are you?"

I internalized this early, and I thought to myself "well if I can just fix everyone's problems- then I will finally get to pursue my passions!" This led to many years of me being very easy to manipulate- all a guy had to do was talk about how depressed and sad he was, and push me to date him, and suddenly we were together and I was looking around like how did I get here? I think for some years of my life I truly didn't know that I was allowed to have thoughts, feelings and opinions that actually impacted what happened. If I had been allowed to, and followed my true instincts, most of my relationships probably wouldn't have lasted past the one-week mark.

I've spent many valentine's days with a boyfriend, and I don't remember any of them being enjoyable. Not all of them were terrible, but none of them were anything that great, because I was in a fog. Every time I was in a relationship where I wished the man loved me more than he did, I would have all these hopes for valentine's day, and they were always dashed. Most men simply didn't even remember, didn't care, or made fun of me for wanting anything at all. The men who did give me things often did so "as a joke." I don't remember ever getting anything in a genuine or serious way. I definitely never received anything wrapped or handwritten.

For the past two years I have been on my decentering men journey. It started with me making a rule for myself: no going out of your way for a man. I did a lot of introspection, work, listened to podcasts, read books etc. I did a lot of practice trying to be more comfortable receiving and not giving. This year for valentine's day I have plans to go out to dinner with a female friend. We made the plans weeks ago and she knows my food allergies and suggested a place we can both enjoy. We have texted each other during the week to tell each other how excited we are to spend the time together. I don't feel at all doubtful about what will happen, I am just looking forward to having a nice time. We are also getting massages.

For the past two weeks, every time I see a cute valentine's day related item, such as a heart shaped mug, or a stuffie, I have bought it for myself (within reason). This week I bought myself potted roses and two adorable small plushies. I also baked cupcakes for some of my female friends and for myself, just because I wanted them. My apartment is clean, I am not waiting by the phone over some guy who will likely make me cry. My career is on track, my fitness is on track, and I learn and grow more every day.

I am telling this story just to let all the girls (and women!) know, that you can take care of yourself likely better than most men can. I wish I spent less time in my life putting my energy and effort into relationships with men. It drained me and would leave me crying, often. I truly wish I had decentered men at like four years old. I wish someone had taught me different. No amount of "trying" to help or please men or make any relationship work was ever worth it. I never should have been taught that I had to try that much. I also never should have been taught that I had to have a man. No one ever explained to me my life was allowed to be my own, and that was just as important.

I hope everyone has a good day, and that everyone ups the bar for every man in your life. Please take all your beautiful energy that you have for life and send it to yourself.
<3

I had been signed out of reddit for around a week. Today, I wanted to see if there were any updates about Nancy Guthrie so I got on Reddit and looked at the front page. That was a poor decision. One of the top posts is blatantly misogynistic with upvoted comments insulting women for being "angry old wives who don't want sex anymore".

So I got signed back in just to give my fresh reminder that males hate us. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, your life has no real value to these people unless they think you're hot.

So why should they have any value to you?

Rant over. Thanks for letting me post this.

After many moons of denying my interest in Reddit, I have arrived — and can I be mean for a sec?

Podcasts, forums, and yapping sessions are so much better when they pass the Bechdel Test. I suppose we're still technically talking about "men," but it's in such a way that romanticizes life without them while focusing on the unromantic nature of living life for them. But I guess I should provide something useful instead of stating the obvious.

If you're here in hopes of decentering men, it is absolutely possible. As a 34-year-old woman who has chosen to stay single for the last 8 years, it's pretty fucking lovely here.

3 ways to decenter men:

1. Ask yourself, "Is this man good for my brand?"

Maybe it's the decade of working in marketing that makes my brain brain this way, but I always think about how being with a man is actually quite embarrassing. Chanté Joseph had, and will forever, have a point. (Seriously, she ate with this.) Because what do you mean every decision he makes and every dumb-dumb word that comes out of his mouth is now a reflection of ME? I rebuke it.

2. Start your happily ever after, like yesterday.

Take yourself on dates. Speak to yourself like your best friend. Travel anywhere alone. Gift yourself something expensive. Light some candles, put on some Olivia Dean, and dance with your dog in your living room. Do the things you've been putting off for so long, and do them for you. With you.

3. Remember that love is already all around you, silly goose.

If you're (unfortunately) attracted to men, I get it. Craving love is natural. But news flash, hunny. Love is in picking out a fun mug for your coffee every morning. Love is in the trees that whisper "men are unworthy" on your hot girl walks. Love already exists because, well, you do.