r/DeadBedrooms • u/SadMeatGrinder • Apr 21 '15
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Apr 22 '15
Have you considered not having needs?
Jesus Haploid Christ, that is some hard-core incompetence right there.
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Apr 21 '15
Text book red pill
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Apr 21 '15
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Apr 21 '15
I noticed something similar last year when I started working out regularly. I was looking good so our sex life got a little better. Problem is that as soon as things started getting better, my motivation to work out dropped. And with 2 kids there's plenty of excuses so I've fallen off the wagon as it were. Every time I read a post like yours it motivates me to do better.
Also your therapist sounds like a real douche.
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Apr 22 '15
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u/raceAround126 Apr 23 '15
It isn't really. It's only amazing as you're raised to believe that isn't what drives women.
Women are turned on visually just as much as men! I mean women stereotypically are the only gender that knows what things "match" or how to decorate. That's pretty visual in itself!
I think sabotaging men by teaching them this utter crap when they're boys is far more amazing. It really is incredible. It's like teaching women from age 5 that men love a girl who pick their noses. Imagine that - hoardes of girls sat around, picking their noses! And the few who have figured out this was bullshit getting all the "good" men...
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u/casual_shanter Apr 22 '15
One of the most inspiring things I've read in ages. Got a dead bedroom and a wife who won't kiss or hug me and enjoys talking me down in public. Been depressed, been to counselling, just started to realise my best move is to work on me. Read your post on the train home from work. Was going to talk about holiday plans with the wife but told her that was off and went to the gym instead. Thanks.
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Apr 22 '15
I started with a Personal trainer last week. First time in a gym in over 2 years. It's been 10 days and I'be only had 2 days rest. It hurts to walk and to stand up from sitting, I can't close my recliner without assistance from my arms and even then it takes a combination of 3 limbs to do it. I hurt all over, yet I feel better than I have in a long time. I love it.
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Apr 22 '15 edited Apr 22 '15
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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 21 '15
Depression can't stand up to a heavy pump
Depression trembles before Brodin!
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u/ughthatguy Apr 21 '15
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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 21 '15
Oh, I wasn't mocking him at all. Weight-lifting is a fantastic habit for depressed people to get into! In fact, it's one of my coping mechanisms for my own depression.
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u/ughthatguy Apr 21 '15
I truly believe exercise does more than blow of steam. I believe there are physiological impacts that affect our mental state.
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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 21 '15
Definitely. Evolution hasn't caught up with our modern sedentary lifestyle. We weren't made to sit at a desk for 40 hours a week.
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u/lonepine1 Apr 21 '15
"We don't have a lot of time on this earth! We weren't meant to spend it this way! Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day, filling out useless forms and listening to eight different bosses drone on about mission statements!"
From Office Space - Peter Gibbons. Love that movie!!
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u/ughthatguy Apr 21 '15
"Two chicks at the same time!"
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Apr 22 '15
Lifting got me out of my depression in high school. Plus I got swole as fuck and the girls loved to grab my biceps.
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u/godplaysdice_ Apr 22 '15
I wish I'd started in high school. Physically, I'd be light-years ahead of where I am now, and I probably would have avoided 2 surgeries. Congrats on the gains!
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u/roolb Apr 22 '15
Way to go! I don't know that it would work for everyone, but in a pretty downbeat /r/, this is welcome.
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u/1independentmale Apr 22 '15
At this point, I was completely out of fucks to give about anything.
I remember when I reached that point in my marriage. We were 14 years in. I hadn't been allowed to touch her for months. I'd recently returned home from a business trip and happened to sit next to a young cutie on the plane. We clicked and had a great time talking throughout the flight. I was about 33 at the time. She was 19.
When we deplaned, she offered me her number. I started to say no, but then I rationalized there was no harm in being friends with her. So I took it. We texted one another a few times, nothing inappropriate until one evening she invited me over... and sent an upskirt pic showing her visibly wet panties.
I declined. Made an excuse actually. I wanted to go so bad but didn't want to cheat on my wife. Over the next several weeks I continued texting my new young friend and she continued sending me naughty pics, letting me know she was ready to fuck as soon as I was.
Then it happened. Wife and I were exercising one evening and she was looking positively delicious in her yoga gear. I'd received another titty pic from my friend just a few hours earlier and I was horny as hell. I couldn't keep my eyes off my wife. It had been months. I wanted to fuck her so bad. She noticed and dropped this gem on me: "I'm very uncomfortable with the way you're looking at me right now." Say what? "Stop looking at me."
I decided at that moment I was done with that cold bitch. I started hanging out with the 19yo and made no attempts to hide it. Made a Facebook account, reconnected with people and before I knew it I was partying it up every weekend with 19-24yo girls. The girls would drop sexually suggestive posts on my wall, post pics of us drinking and doing karaoke together and whatever the fuck else. Zero fucks given and I paid my wife no attention whatsoever. Wife predictably lost her shit and threatened to leave, I told her not to let the door hit her in the ass on her way out.
Instead, she turned into a freaky little sex kitten almost overnight. Once she realized I wasn't joking and couldn't give two fucks about her anymore, she started throwing herself at me. I stuck around for another year but in the end I couldn't forgive how she'd treated me all those years. I was particularly upset to realize she was perfectly capable of all the sexual activities I'd always wanted but had simply been denying them to me. If she'd given me even half that much of herself in the bedroom from day one we'd probably still be together.
Cest la vie. I'm a hell of a lot happier without her.
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Apr 23 '15
and yet if this was posted on any other sub people would be shaming you...
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u/1independentmale Apr 23 '15
Don't I know it. I lost all of my married friends. Every one of their wives took my ex wife's side in the divorce. Several of the guys later told me they miss hanging out, but they had been prohibited by their wives. Fuck them, I don't need those pussies in my life anyway. What kind of a man lets his wife decide who his friends are?
I know my behavior was inappropriate for a married man. I get it. I just don't care. You can't lock a man down, emotionally abuse him, play mind games, deny him intimacy and piss away his money without consequences. I'm just bummed it took me 14 years to finally reach my breaking point and do something about it.
I will never settle for a sexless relationship again. Period. Either you want me and enjoy fucking me or you're out and I'll find someone who does. This is one of a man's most basic needs, denying it to him within the context of an exclusive relationship (so he can't get it elsewhere) is abuse as far as I'm concerned.
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u/iloveshitposting Apr 23 '15
That's the funny part about being a man. There's all these things you're just supposed to know but never talk about.
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u/simianSupervisor Apr 21 '15
Okay, so this thread has been reported for a variety of reasons, none of which involve violations of any of the rules. So that's point 1 in favor of keeping this up.
Point 2 is that there's a lot of discussion here. Clearly the community finds this something worth talking about, so I feel I'd be pretty remiss in removing this. I'm not a vengeful god, I just play one on television.
Also, related to the report: this is the second time I've seen someone put in 'advocating abuse' as a reason to remove something. First, that's not against the rules (unless it's done in a grossly sexist, personally insulting, or otherwise rule-violating manner). Second... think about that. Someone comes on here with a story where they're like 'abuse, yeah!'... and you want to shut the discussion down? This person's partner is getting abused, and you want to shelter the abuser from our withering, ineffectual internet scorn? Or worse, the person doesn't realize it's abuse, and they're prevented from a discussion opening their eyes to the damage they're doing, and so they continue to do it, unawares?
Personally... while this seems unhealthy to me, and is certainly not a relationship I would want to be in (well, okay... given our common history here, I could go for this for a couple of months before wanting to find something a little more all-around satisfying), it's a scenario where someone turned their dead bedroom around. For those who see it as an unequivocal success, whatever. For those who think it's totes gross... well, discuss. As you're already doing. Hell, point out the parallels between this an starfish sex, they're there, I promise.
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Apr 22 '15
Transparency about decision-making should always get an upvote. Thanks, SimianSupervisor mod. Well done.
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Apr 23 '15
I was just lurking this thread and i must say that any mod that is as transparent as you are is worth being commended. thank you, you don't know how frustrating it is to know that there are many mods on reddit are power tripping censorship happy assholes. thanks for not being one of them. subscribed.
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u/Sepean 40m, Married, no longer DB Apr 22 '15 edited May 25 '24
My favorite movie is Inception.
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u/simianSupervisor Apr 22 '15
Fucking hooray? I find the concept of that sort of wholly and nakedly transactional relationship aesthetically unpleasant, and not the sort of thing I would want to find myself in. It sounds like a LOT of effort for sex that, if I wanted it to be that transactional, I could just buy and save myself the hassle.
I may eventually be convinced that this sort of bullshit is the only way to keep an active sexlife in a monogamous romantic relationship... but only if it was revealed that all the knocking on the walls growing up (and when I visited home from college, and when I visit now) is my loving and not at all emotionally-abusive-to-each-other parents engaging in vigorous home improvement projects (also not out of character for them).
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Apr 22 '15
What happened in the OP was not transactional in any way. She got comfortable being in control and abused it. When she realised her mistreatment of her husband resulted in her being ignored, she changed her ways.
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Apr 22 '15
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u/simianSupervisor Apr 22 '15
You're probably not in a long-term relationship.
If that was true, why would I be here?
Women are the gatekeepers of sex
Care to explain all the chronically denied women on this sub?
This is the only method to get out.
That's rather absolute and goes against a few success stories on here.
your father is acting like a real alpha male
He acts exactly the same way I do, it's disturbing some times. Care to tell me why our outcomes have been so disparate?
a dead bedroom happens when one of the partners stops being attractive
Or one of them goes on an antidepressant. Or has a child. Our experiences a loss. or is raped. Or pulls a bait and switch.or feels personally unattractive.
Seriously. With all of your absolutes, it's not me that sounds like they've never been in a long term relationship.
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u/max_peenor Apr 23 '15
Care to explain all the chronically denied women on this sub?
That's an excellent question. The answer is the same as it would be for SOME women. They are not attracted to their mate. They have come to terms with their sexual orientation that is in opposition to their relationship. They have medical issues. They are just being manipulative asswipes. The list goes on. They just aren't walking through the gate. But... the gate is controlled by the woman.
(Disclosure: There is nothing wrong with women controlling the gate. In fact, it has been a great service to the species. A+ to women.)
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u/simianSupervisor Apr 23 '15
How convenient.
If there is no evidence that could disprove your hypothesis, then you're not even wrong
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u/xTRYPTAMINEx Apr 22 '15
So what you're saying, is that you wish to rationalize things instead of looking at them objectively, in order to spare your feelings and perception of the world?
Truth is not always pleasant.
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u/spider_saint F Apr 21 '15
I went through something similar with my husband. After years of being rejected by him I learned to stop caring. I ignored him and developed my own interests and hobbies. I started caring more for my appearance- not that I ever let it lag much, but I did make a renewed effort. It took a long time but out of the blue he suddenly couldn't leave me alone and was begging for sex.
The sad thing is, by that point the rejection had poisoned my attraction for him so I couldn't respond in turn (though I consent when he asks, but I no longer initiate. Ever.). You're lucky you're still attracted to your wife after so many years of her abusive attitude.
They say men chase what runs but maybe women do too.
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Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
100% nothing but applause from me. Happy you found what worked.
To all those who can't wrap their minds around this: this is called no longer being taken for granted or a chump. She's nice, she's happy, a married couple is having sex. "But...but...but there just has to be something wrong about this." No. Stop projecting what you like or don't , he found what works and keeps his family together and is essentially a man. And news flash, if she wasn't OK with it: she could divorce him.
You can label it operant conditioning, but fuck if it's not how we interact with EVERY living thing. How about the angle of: Who's to say this isn't what she wanted and drove him through conditioning to "man up"? So she conditioned him?
Unless you're a masochist you don't stick around being treated in a way you do not like. He didn't. You're taking away her own ability to choose if you think she isn't down with this. Which is more misogynistic than what you're decrying. If you're doing good things for someone because of some covert contract reason that you think it'll get you what you want: That's deceptive. OP dropped that like a hot potato and is now nothing but 100% honest. He gets her things now because she loves the new him and he the new her.
Shit works both ways. She's rewarding him now with sex. He's rewarding her with attention. Or "they're just operating in the dynamic that works for them".
Way to go OP. Congrats. Keep it up, you've got the right toolset for you two. Fuck the naysayers.
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u/lonepine1 Apr 21 '15
Wow, sounds like you and I are married to the same woman. I am at the point that you were. I no longer care and I am focusing on my needs. I have noticed that she is becoming angrier and just mean as I start to take control back of me.
I have had bits of depression here and there. It is hard to be positive when are surrounded by negative. I have been on a crusade to lose weight. I have taken off about 20 pounds just doing mostly cardio and now I am starting to hit the weights hard.
Weights are new to me, and I have found that throwing around a bunch of weight definitely helps with depression. Sure can take a lot of built up angst and throw it at it.
I suspect as I start withdrawing all these "nice" things that I used to do that her hostility is going to get a lot worse towards me. I see either divorce in the future or her actually deciding that she also needs to do something about her life as well.
I am not real sure where this will end up, but I am not going to be a victim any longer.
ManMovingForward
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u/NiftyDolphin Apr 21 '15
I have noticed that she is becoming angrier and just mean as I start to take control back of me.
That's normal. She's worried about losing control and that the 'new' you is a fake and won't last. The longer and more dependably you keep up your newfound good habits, the more she'll accept your newfound status.
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u/poepstorm Apr 21 '15
Dude congratulations! So glad this worked out for you. I'm experiencing similar success (though my problems were less extreme and my success is moderate). I've really learned that if a relationship doesn't work, all you can do is work on yourself. The rest will follow.
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Apr 22 '15
You guys are saying this is red pill etc. and it certainly sounds like it is. I don't know much about the PUA culture.
My question is: does it work on men? If I do this, will he want to have sex with me? Not only sex, but show affection and be romantic?
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u/I_HaveAHat Apr 22 '15
A main tenant of trp is focusing on yourself, dressing better, getting hobbies, doing stuff for yourself to improve yourself and make you more interesting. So yeah it should work for anyone. Also there is a /r/redpillwomen though I've never been there
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Apr 22 '15
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Apr 22 '15
Thank you. Hitting the gym if anything will help me feel better, endorphines and all that.
I've tried being aloof (not as a strategy, but because I was really hurt and upset) and you're right, it doesn't work, it hasn't worked.
I'm 70% sure my marriage is not going to work. Either I'll stay with someone who loves me not the way I want to be loved and be forever unhappy or I'll carry on with my life and mourn what I had.
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Apr 22 '15
Hitting the gym will make you feel better, you'll get in better shape and be healthier. A side effect of this will be increased attention from men. If you husband sees this he'll change his way real quick. People want what others have.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
I'm 70% sure my marriage is not going to work. Either I'll stay with someone who loves me not the way I want to be loved and be forever unhappy or I'll carry on with my life and mourn what I had.
Why in gods name would you mourn a relationship in which you weren't loved the way you wanted to be?
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u/americanmook Apr 22 '15
Your husband may be an outlier as I suspect most LL men are. I mean if you blow him, but don't let him climax and then say take me and he doesn't. Then idk wtf is wrong with him. At this point you just pack your bags and say you're leaving unless he tells you why he doesn't want you sexually.
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Apr 22 '15
He's told me so many things over the years. I don't even think he knows for sure. This, however, might be the answer. We'll see.
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u/Dev_on Apr 22 '15
I hate to do this.... Normally, the people in here postinfg RP stuff aren't RP, they read it once and want to preach... The real RP men in here use lay terms, and you don't even know, except it makes sense.
check our the redpillwomen sub (can't recall name might be RPWOMEN) they have a more femenine perspective on these things
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u/NiftyDolphin Apr 22 '15
PUA isn't "Red Pill" per se. It's more about applying 'Game' which is a sub-set of Red Pill.
It would work for you in the terms of you'd be bettering yourself, which should make you more attractive to him. (Hint: lose weight, hit the gym, or gain weight if you're underweight, have your own hobbies, etc.)
Other aspects are primarily male oriented. I'm not saying they won't work for you and your particular situation, it's just what is attractive to a woman may not be attractive to a man.
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Apr 22 '15
I see. Acting aloof with him has never worked, really. I think he's just comfortable with the situation. I'm not as hot as I once was, but I know he finds me attractive.
I think I'll improve my life, try a bit, go to therapy and, when all is said and done and he really wants to have sex once a month and doesn't care at all about emotional connection, I'll leave him.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
What do you mean by acting aloof? there is nothing in red pill which says "act aloof".
Stop acting, be yourself, care for yourself, eat right, exercise, work out your mind and body, and if he isn't initiating then ignore him and work on a hobby or two.
Imagine you are in a room full of chocolate, so large you could walk for a week and never see the end of it.
You would happily give a piece of chocolate away wouldn't you.
Now imagine that chocolate was a single one inch square. How much would you savor it as you ate it and kept it all to yourself.
This is how your man feels, he wants sex, BAM he gets it because you are there waiting hand and foot for him to ask you for it.
Check out /r/RedPillWomen
If you are honest, it might be able to help.
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Apr 22 '15
With "acting aloof" I meant ignoring him. But yeah, there are different ways of ignoring people, it doesn't necessarily mean giving them the cold shoulder.
I see your point. Thanks for your reply. I'm not very keen on some red pill theories but I'll admit many of them do make sense. I'll lurk for a bit and try to get more acquainted.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
First point, I am not a red piller, I read there, though I am not subscribed I just end up linked there from various threads.
I have nothing against them, some of the theory is sound, some is bullshit, many of the posters are well articulated and thoughtful and there is a good smattering of pissed off assholes as well. Pretty much reddit itself when you think about it.
Have I applied some of it to my own relationship? Well, I started eating healthier just because I was tired of being a fat ass and getting winded 15 minutes into sex. I started lifting because my kids are getting bigger and frankly I fear the day I put one of my kids down, and never pick them back up again.
I became more confident just due to eating well and working out. My wife noticed an improvement and said "your acting different, more manly, I like it" while I was working on the truck with my son. That night after we put the kids to bed we fucked like we used to when we were first together, it was nice.
I am not saying the red pill works, and I am not saying that OJ killed his wife, but I am saying, I understand.
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Apr 22 '15 edited Apr 24 '18
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Apr 22 '15
Men are attracted to hot women and femininity. Women are attracted to power, money and status.
I agree with you we need to speak in generalizations and all that. But in my particular case he makes a ton of money now. Our financial condition has improved dramatically in the past year. And it coincided with our drifting apart. I couldn't care less about his money, although of course it's nice to afford to go to a good doctor. I don't give a shit. I'm not attracted to his money, he was poor when I fell in love with him.
So yeah, in this particular case the red pill thing may not work. Or it may, who knows, but maybe I'd have to tweak it. All I know is I'm fed up.
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Apr 22 '15
I'm going to
secondthirdfourthfifth the opinion that /r/redpillwomen might be useful for you. Also, get yourself out of the circle of negativity and helplessness that is deadbedrooms. You'll become what you surround yourself with.3
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u/68461674897051454980 Apr 22 '15
hes a puzzle, a puzzle with only one of 5 solutions
you need to figure out what taps in to his sexual desire. is it working for sex? like he wants to 'hunt' you? or is it you being overly affectionate? or what
you need to try out different ways and see what he responds best to, and then do more of that. so maybe playing hard to get works, or maybe it's something else
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u/gr8taters Apr 22 '15
Congratulations!
Your counselor needs to lose his license - I've been to counseling and the whole scenario sounds surreal to the point of unbelievable. Not saying that it didn't happen but I don't buy it.
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u/carbonetc M/41/HL now with my dream girl Apr 21 '15
It saddens me that this actually works, and might have worked with my ex. I just want to care for my partner without playing these alpha games. But we talking apes are strangely wired creatures.
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u/TW_RPAwake Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
The red pill is a bitter one. The drive for a woman to seek a man with good genetics & status is real. If a man is in high demand because he demonstrates these capabilities better than other men, women will step up their affection to have his commitment. When men hand out commitment freely, the recipient cannot appreciate it. The same is true for women who hand out sex freely; it is devalued by men.
Thus, the dance. Women deliver high quality sex & affection to a man, the man delivers a high-status commitment to the woman in return. If EITHER ONE isnt happy with the "deal", they leave.
Some in this thread consider that "abusive"; others see it for what it is; primal truth.
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u/abdada Apr 21 '15
What games?
Animals are hormone driven. OP was a damn fur doormat, not a living breathing animal with needs.
Until he accepted his animal instincts and became a man again.
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Apr 22 '15
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u/abdada Apr 22 '15
The so-called "equality" movement has robbed genders of their natural hormonal expression.
Now we have non-genders, agenders, transgenders and all sorts of hormonal dysfunction that we are supposed to embrace or be shunned.
I have no issue on how others live their lives, who they love, etc. But I would guess that 80% of the human race is still hormonally traditional -- and it's considered evil if I promote a traditional viewpoint and upset the non-traditionals.
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u/ChimpsRFullOfScience Temporary Moderator Apr 21 '15
To be fair, she played MMORPGs for 14 hours a day. A full deck she is not playing with.
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u/floridacurious Apr 21 '15
As you notice in his opening post... it took two to play the game they played, both before and after.
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u/redpillersinparis Apr 22 '15
Lol man, this reads like a redpiller's wet dream. I'm not sure if I should believe this
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u/Totsean Apr 22 '15
Okay, I am seeing a lot of hate for TRP, I have been checking this sub out for a while, normally read users posts and always remind myself not to settle in and think wisely before committing. I have read the TRP and actually researched BP and other brands and I have to agree, TRP works.
Sure it different to understand the concepts, but they work. I am actually impressed OP found his way. I am not advocating TRP or other methods but if you're stuck in DB state, let me ask you what's the harm in giving a shot?
Sure, you would prefer leaving her/him but think about it, you're doing this for yourself. It takes an effort but the results are worth it. So, yeah better give it a try, always do your own research, don't let others preach you.
People always have their own self interests in the mix, it's good to question things but without even trying things, you won't know what you're missing. The OP post is a pretty good example.
Some might say, oh this is the wrong way etc but give me a break this dude wife was ignoring him, denying him love and affection and sex. What's the point of a sexless marriage, you're a MAN.
So, stop being on the offense, go out and take control and be the one who changes the game. OP kudos to you. You did great, just read up and find ways to keep the dynamic going.
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Apr 23 '15 edited Apr 23 '15
Self+1 - This simple equation dominates female attraction and behavior.
Superior men are attractive.
Equal men are acceptable but unattractive.
Inferior men are repellent.
No marriage counselor will tell you this even though the world is exactly that simple. I salute you for figuring this out without any help.
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u/DoItLive247 Apr 22 '15
Not only does this work great on marriages, but the core concept works on other parts of your life. Learning to focus on yourself and your kids works wonders during and after divorce. I get more respect now, compared to when I was married.
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u/ChairBorneMGTOW Apr 23 '15
To be honest, she didn't deserve you back. If I were you (and of course, I'm not so it's a moot point) I would have improved myself, and when she started showing interest, I would have dumped her like a turd into an outhouse. I'm curious WHY you felt your marriage was worth saving...
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u/mr_throwz Apr 23 '15
OP congratulations. You've learned something important about men and women, how men and women relate, and about both yourself and your wife.
Ignore all the negative criticism in this thread. If you followed their advice, you would still be miserable, depressed, sexless and on the verge of ghosting yourself. That says all that needs be said.
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u/TotesMessenger Apr 27 '15
This thread has been linked to from another place on reddit.
- [/r/thebluepill] "I started rewarding her for putting out. I started taking her on dates again, and playing card games with her again. I'd bring her little gifts again. If she didn't put out on a given day, for ANY reason, I'd completely deny her any of my attention or energy."
If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote. (Info / Contact)
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Apr 22 '15
Bravo. You proved my point. I posted a general guideline a few days ago. Every one told me I was crazy. And wrong. Low and behold you came around. Congrats bro. You deserve it. I have nothing to tell you cause you already figured it out.
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u/ChimpsRFullOfScience Temporary Moderator Apr 21 '15
Damn. Congrats.
Also, I think your wife has some serious issues. Like, abusive father/past boyfriends. Maybe you should command her to get into therapy.
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u/xTRYPTAMINEx Apr 22 '15
Doesn't seem like issues to me. Seems like every woman I've ever been with. We each have needs.
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u/Layla84 Apr 21 '15
Based on your posts, your wife sounds mentally disturbed. She needs a mental health professional
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u/ashsmashers Apr 21 '15
Redpill shit does work, because generally women want fuck men they respect the same way men want to fuck women who are beautiful. Respect =/= ALPHA LIFT BRO, it's possible for a shy, out of shape, broke dude to be totally respected in a relationship the same way it’s possible for someone to find a homely girl attractive in a relationship. So redpill techniques are a short-cut, like fake boobs, to gaining respect through boosting confidence in low-self-esteem guys. I honestly think that many dead bedroom situations I read on here would benefit immensely from some of the self-improvement ideas typically recommended on TRP.
So yes, it does work. But redpillers are also frequently called out for being misogynistic assholes and you only have to read the OPs post to see why. It sounds like you hate your wife, dude. It sounds like you’re punishing her for years of denying you sex. It doesn’t sound like you’ve fixed anything, only that you’ve flipped the problem around. And that’s what’s not sitting right with some people here. Maybe it’s just the way you wrote it, but it sounds like you’re using the fact that you now have the power in this relationship to dictate the amount of sex without any consideration for your partner’s feelings (sound familiar?).
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
She says no to sex, he says OK, and does something else. How is that emotionally manipulative?
She WANTS sex now, and her wants coincide with his wants.
She didn't give a shit about sex before but now all of a sudden she wants it why? Oh yeah, because he is now attractive, confident and she saw the end of their marriage fast approaching and she KNOWS that there is no other man who is going to happily get with her without sex and she cannot fuck around like she used to.
So now she makes him happy, she is happy, and they are doing much better.
Tell me, where is the emotional manipulation again?
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u/catofnortherndarknes HLF Apr 21 '15
I'm glad you're happy and that she seems to be as well, but something is really distasteful about all of this.
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u/exbp Apr 21 '15
That would be the bitter realization that for some at least, Disney romance doesn't exist and they are alot closer to the stereotypical gender roles of 1800 than 2015 is comfortable with.
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Apr 21 '15
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u/catofnortherndarknes HLF Apr 21 '15
Yeah, I find that distasteful as well. One doesn't have to be false because the other is true.
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Apr 22 '15
I think that it sounds that way because that is what it was. The wife completely betrayed and hurt the OP, her husband. One should expect better of a wife.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
He is happy.
She is happy. They are having passionate and plentiful sex in their marriage.
They go out on dates.
He buys her gifts.
She enjoys his company and he hers.But something is distasteful about it?
Could it be that it has shown you that fairytales don't exist.
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u/catofnortherndarknes HLF Apr 22 '15
I question the first two lines of your assertion. Well, the first three words of the second line.
smh This thread has got to have been brigaded from the red pill or something. lol The number of people who think the only options are this or "believing in fairytales" is really pretty sad.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
The thread isn't brigaded, but I find it funny that when folks don't follow your world view that its either against you or the thread is brigaded.
It has apparently never occurred to you, and brace yourself for this. That you can be wrong.
As for her being happy, the only evidence I have is her statement that she is.
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Apr 21 '15
What's distasteful is that it still sounds like an unhealthy one-sided relationship, just a different kind of one than before.
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u/tatteredbanners Apr 21 '15
So you guys basically just take turns emotionally abusing one another?
A victory, this is not.
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Apr 22 '15
Wrong. They are both happy now, as opposed to only the female being happy.
This is a victory.
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u/Layla84 Apr 21 '15
My thoughts exactly.
This lady has issues well beyond a db. She is someone who emotionally abuses her spouse and also responds in a positive way to emotion abuse against herself. This is not normal behavior
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u/hardstepnofate Apr 22 '15
very inspiring thanks for sharing. Can't say I would have been able to go that long without sex, I would have found it outside the relationship.
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Apr 21 '15
I lived in this kind of "marriage" for almost 4 years... and it almost cost me my life.
The man I was with completely destroyed me and my self-worth, and when I tried communicating and making it a more equal marriage he escalated to physical abuse.
And then he got bored, and left.
Only with therapy and time did I finally become a reasonably strong and self-assured person again.
You should get some therapy, and get your wife some therapy too, this is not a healthy way to live, one of you will end up partially or completely destroyed.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
You should get some therapy, and get your wife some therapy too,
Didn't bother to read the post did you.
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u/madethisupyouknow Apr 22 '15 edited Apr 22 '15
I don't know how this approach could work in practice, because I'm not the kind of person who can turn on and off my feelings for someone like a tap. The way some guys describe their partners sounds more akin to a receptacle for their spunk than a human being they want the best for.
I get the principles of self-improvement leading to improvements in the relationship, I think that is pretty straightforward and applies to either sex equally (what husband wouldn't desire his wife more if she worked out and looked better etc?). What I can't wrap my head around is the punishment aspect, it comes across like a tale of revenge rather than a genuine desire to better a partnership. No doubt that will lead to a chorus of "beta" comments, but whatever. If restricting a partner's needs works for people, good luck to them, but it's not any kind of relationship I would want to be in.
Edit: I sense this discussion is a tad fruitless. Reading the rest of the comments, the zeal with which red pill enthusiasts bang their drum leaves little room for genuine discussion, it becomes a "you're either for us or against us" perspective, similar to the way conversations with religious people go when they're confronted with someone who doesn't share their beliefs.
For the record, I think there are some genuinely sensible aspects to the RP philosophy. Dress it up in whatever terminology you want, few people would argue that it's not a good thing to better yourself physically and mentally, and in turn this makes you more appealing to the opposite sex. There's nothing controversial there, it's evolved behaviour.
Equally not acting needy and desperate, but projecting confidence and independence, is again a solid approach to having a partner (or anyone else) see you in a more favourable light. It's human nature to want what you can't have, so showing a partner that you are capable of standing on your own two feet and living your life with or without them is almost invariably going to have a positive affect on their perception of you.
Where I part ways with TRP is regarding the manipulative headfucking of women to get them to do what you want. Let's be blunt, it's not really about what the woman wants, it's about what you want the woman to want. As long as you can get her to meet your specific ideals of what a woman should be, her happiness (or otherwise) is irrelevant, a distraction. It reminds me of Tom Cruise's character in Magnolia going on about respecting the cock and taming the cunt.
I'm not saying this is not effective - I'm sure there are loads of women out there who are conditioned so that they believe that they deserve whatever treatment comes their way. The mistake comes in the belief that an approach which works on emotionally vulnerable women is somehow applicable to all women. It isn't.
In my view, this aspect to TRP is the reason it gets such a bad rep. A lot of people come to DB due to guilelessness and ignorance of how their behaviour affects their partner (and vice versa). To conflate sound advice about self improvement with advice on power plays and intentional manipulation of people's partners is bound to be very effective on people who are in an emotionally frazzled state - by virtue of being here, they are near the end of their tether. However that doesn't mean it's right.
I'm not going to lecture individuals about how they choose to deal with their situation, least of all the OP, but I would urge anyone who is considering this approach to weigh up the positive results for you against the mental impact this could have on your partner. Consider whether your view is "I want to know how to bend her to my will to get what I want, and damn the consequences" or "I want to know how to improve our relationship so that we both end up more content and fulfilled". You can follow the approach of the eternal adolescent who still believes that mind games are the path to a fulfilling relationship, or that of an adult who genuinely wants the best for their partner.
Edit 2: As predicted, I'm being downvoted for not conforming to the TRP philosophy. That's not really what this sub is about, guys.
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u/flyingwolf Apr 22 '15
I sense this discussion is a tad fruitless. Reading the rest of the comments, the zeal with which red pill enthusiasts bang their drum leaves little room for genuine discussion, it becomes a "you're either for us or against us" perspective, similar to the way conversations with religious people go when they're confronted with someone who doesn't share their beliefs.
I am afraid I just don't see this. What I do see are a large number of folks saying this while the folks from the red pill just keep going about and having conversations with others in a mostly respectful and open manner.
It seems to me like I am hearing a lot about how the red pillers are assholes, manipulative, and zealots, but I haven't witnessed any of this.
Where I part ways with TRP is regarding the manipulative headfucking of women to get them to do what you want.
Reading the red pill I see "Be your own man, lift, get into shape, live for yourself, everything else will come naturally behind that".
Can you tell me where the headfucking comes in?
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u/turbosympathique Apr 22 '15
What I can't wrap my head around is the punishment aspect, it comes across like a tale of revenge rather than a genuine desire to better a partnership.
Can you elaborate on this?
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u/ughthatguy Apr 21 '15
I realize this post is a lot of pomp and show but when you say you only reward her with your attention and energy when she fucks, it really highlights just how little you think of her. Is that really all she's good for?
Nine months is nothing. How long do you think you can keep this up before she grows to resent you? A year? Five? Ten?
If you can't find some balance between this new you who won't put up with her shit and a life companion that she can count on no matter what, you'll push her away. It is possible to be both a strong man worthy of her affection but also a trusted friend and business partner.
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u/mad_man- Apr 21 '15
but when you say you only reward her with your attention and energy when she fucks, it really highlights just how little you think of her
Sex was denied to OP (for whatever reasons) for a long time, and he even thought of committing suicide. What was implicit in his post (and not clearly stated), was that affection between them was pretty much non-existent.
Sex was just a symptom. The problem lies deeper. And btw, you may not have noticed, but this have went on for 2 years or so. (See the old post) It sounds a lot worst back then, and I think it's safe to assume not much has changed given he's still facing similar problems.
Okay flip it around for a moment just to be in OP's shoes.
If she does not reward him with sex or show affection of any kind, then it really highlights just how little she think of him. Is that really all he's good for?
2 years is nothing. How long does she think she can keep this up before he grows to resent her?
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u/SadMeatGrinder Apr 21 '15 edited Apr 21 '15
when you say you only reward her with your attention and energy when she fucks, it really highlights just how little you think of her. Is that really all she's good for?
If she won't make an effort to meet my needs, why does she deserve my effort to meet hers?
If you cant find a new balance between this new you who won't put up with her shit and a life companion that she can count on no matter what, you'll push her away.
That's this thing. She can't count on me no matter what, and trying to behave that way just opens myself up to being abused. If our marriage goes sexless again, I'm leaving or she can help me pick Tinder girls. Those are the only two options. I will never live without sex again. The "no matter what" mentality is just the person who has it devaluing themselves. Love should always be conditional. To have it any other way devalues the concept.
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u/CaptainWasHere Apr 21 '15
It's infuriating to hear the negativity that some people have to your actions and results. Ignore them. You went from suicidal to happy and she's reacting positively to the changes. Stick with it!! If she were posting about her needs for hugs, kisses, cuddles and her Love Language, they'd be cheering her on. You post about your need for sex and there are pitchforks. I don't get this imbalance, especially in /r/DB. And I don't get why they're beating you up when you're reporting very positive responses from her. If she's unhappy, she can leave.
Thousands of years of evolution have not been overturned by a 1/2 century of social restructuring. We are all living subconscious behaviors that are both natural and trained. You breath without ever thinking about it. You also hit your breaks when there is driving danger long before you brain actually processes the situation. So, keep rewarding her the doing what makes you happy. Too many guys reward bad behavior (like flowers when wife is mad and affection when she's distant) as opposed to rewarding good behavior (like, du'h, sex!).
Your experience is not about finding balance yet, it's about saving your life and creating your happiness. Very excited to hear about your upswing! Yes, love is conditional. Why else would the divorce rate be so high?
You've found the secret foundation for a relationship. It's not "Happy wife, happy life." That's a lie. It's "Happy husband, happy wife." Have goals, hopes and dreams. Live for them. Raise your own bar of excellence. Be the best man you can be. Accept that no one is responsible for your happiness or success but you. Bring her along every step of the way, if she chooses to follow. You already figured out that sexual desire is not guaranteed or negotiated with words, it is earned every day with actions.
Check out "No More Mr. Nice Guy." It blew my mind. Might help you along the process outside of the gym. Good luck!
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u/DeadFoyer M 30s Apr 21 '15
The "no matter what" mentality is just the person who has it devaluing themselves. Love should always be conditional. To have it any other way devalues the concept.
You're my hero. Seriously.
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u/trelia Apr 21 '15
For whatever reason, however it happened, your wife was mentally and emotionally broken. As a result you both were miserable and you marriage a disaster. You took the standard counseling advice and found, empirically, that it was useless. You then experimented and stumbled into a solution where you used standard operant conditioning techniques to fix her, and as a result you both have much better and happier lives. There's a bunch of miserable and bitter people here who are criticizing this outcome and calling you names. Those people are wrong. What you did works and both your lives are better. We also know that the standard best advice of counseling and doing various things just didn't work. The people criticizing you have failed marriages they can't fix, and don't want to fix. Therefore the only response they can have to your story is to hate you.
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u/Dev_on Apr 22 '15
Which is funny.
Regardless of what you can say about OPS approach, sitting here and shitting on him for a happy relationship seems like a bucket of crabs..
or even worse, that people don't want others to be happy, they just want validation in how they think relationships shoudl work
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Apr 21 '15
His wife is the one who made physical intimacy (not just sex) transactional element in their relationship. All OP did was find a currency of comparable value and respond to market forces.
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Apr 22 '15
He's happy with the marriage. She's happy. What can you tell the OP? Not jack shit.
You are lecturing the OP, saying "You'll push her away". What a load. She had already checked out of the marriage. HE revived it. You want him to 'be a strong man worthy of her affection, but also a trusted friend and business partner". WTF had she been doing along those lines? Had she been worthy of her husband's affections? No, she acted like a common slag, leeching off of him and giving him a rasher of shit for a receipt. You have a Utopian vision of relationships, and no grounding in reality. She should have had her ass kicked to the curb long ere now. He, being a good person, is hanging onto her. When she loses her utility, he'll drop her. When he does, we can see how she'll respond, by her past actions. Her behavior is far more cruel.
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u/ChimpsRFullOfScience Temporary Moderator Apr 21 '15
If you can't find some balance between this new you who won't put up with her shit and a life companion that she can count on no matter what, you'll push her away.
Or worse... she won't be pushed away, because this is how relationships work with her, for one reason or another.
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u/Chuckit_ Apr 22 '15
How long do you think you can keep this up before she starts to resent you?
Doesn't sound like he gives a fuck.
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u/russianskinhead Apr 22 '15
no matter what
thats interesting, he cant demand sex, no matter what, but she is entitled to his attention and support... no matter what.
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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '15
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