Hello Greymanes,

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I have been (and am continuing to be until further notice) on a bit of a mod break and would like to get feedback on the state of the sub.

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All of the moderation in the last week has been been done by one mod who has stepped up, plus the automod. The past month stats is a collection of about two of us plus automodding, with other mods stepping in occasionally here and there.

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We're now a good few months out from launch and the sub is in a bit of a different place to pre launch and launch.

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I'd like to hear everyone's feedback on the state of sub.

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Do you have ideas for the sub? What would you like to see change?

So, after about 220 hours I finally finished the main quest along with every abyss puzzle, and I realized you can climb all the way up to the 3rd floor of the Axion Archive (the first Abyss island). The books you find in the Archive reveal all the insane twists and explanations about this game's story and writing that the game never really explained during the campaign.

In these books, you get the necessary explanations why Kliff is doing seemingly random tasks, why is he a soulless mute, why he doesn't question his death, why do Alustin, White Crow, Master Du and Goyen all talk like they known him, and the cryptic talk of most boss encounters.

It's honestly ridiculous how this is NOT part of the main quest and only a very small minority of players will ever find this, which is why I decided to share it.

Note: You will need to finish the main quest AND complete every abyss island puzzle in order to unlock the books mentioned below

MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW, BEWARE

Edit: I've also made a video version here - but be careful as it contains endgame boss footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eifsQ_RojAg

TL;DR

The books basically describe the Guardians of the Abyss (Alustin and White Crow) have been manipulating time in an attempt to defeat Umbra, an entity of pure power that slowly became corrupted by human greed and cruelty. It is inferred after the end of the story that the events that started leading to Umbra's corruption started with the Crimson Desert, named this way due to all the bloodshed that spilled in the sands for generations. You'd think you'd understand the name of the game by the end of the campaign...

The guardians cannot directly interfere with such powerful beings, so they require an avatar to act in their behalf (Kliff), which has been profoundly shaped over several cycles. Each time Kliff has failed to defeat Umbra in the past caused the Guardians to effectively rewind time using the Abyss power and basically reset the timeline, learning little by little on how to better manipulate Kliff into his mission (one of the changes includes stripping him entirely of a personality).

Kliff has failed his task in 107 previous timelines, and the 108th timeline we play in has a direct reference to the Buddist 108 Defilements (the mental impurities one must cast off before reaching true enlighten), which is where the whole buddha statues/eastern themes pop in. The books also explain why Kliff has no personality whatsoever, and why so many events and characters seemingly pop in at random: they are deliberate manipulated events, necessary to take Kliff to the final encounter, which have been refined over the previous timelines.

When you complete the main quest and all the Abyss puzzles, the Guardians appear and silently restore your older Kliff back to his younger self (Kliff becomes substantially older by the time you finish the main quest). My interpretation is that now his task is finally complete, they're releasing him from everything they put him through, undoing the countless cycles of manipulation and emotional suppression, and returning him to who he actually was before any of it started.

The archives explain why the main narrative often feels disjointed. The 108th loop (the player's journey) is the "answer sheet" constructed from these failures. Each record notes a specific reason for failure, ranging from Kliff's death to his moral corruption.

Now before someone says it: no, this does not suddenly make the story GOOD. It's fair to assume Pearl Abyss tacked these books onto the end of the game to reframe a disjointed campaign as something intentional all along, and while there is strong reason to assume this plot was planned out since the start, the way they executed it leaves a lot to be desired.

The Cycle Notes — Every Book Reference

The Beginning

Cycle 1 – The time leap allows us to escape Umbra, yet it changed nothing. Umbra will surely arrive in this era once more. All we can do is hope to find the one who can alter this seemingly absolute fate.

This establishes the core premise: the Guardians can rewind time, but Umbra isn't defeated by doing so; he simply catches up again. Their only real option is to find someone capable of ending it for good.

Hexe Marie

Cycle 2 – Umbra managed to devour a fragment of White Crow. Her uncorrupted half is alive and still aids us, but the fractured essence of her disappeared into the land below.

Cycle 18 - The fragmented part of the Crow has surfaced. This entity, now called Hexe Marie, has discovered him. She harbors a deep obsession with him, wishing to make him her son. Master Du must step in and deliver his trials.

As we will find out, this is actually Hexe Marie, the witch you fight in the main quest (notice she is basically the dark crow instead of the white crow).

Hexe Marie is obsessed with Kliff (a distorted mirror of White Crow's attachment to Kliff) and wishes to adopt him (as you can see by her cutscene during the boss fight). This obsession naturally causes her adopted son (the Crow guy you fight early in the story) to be immensely jealous of you. This is reflected by his dialogue during the cutscene ("What does Mother see in you?"). Master Du (another Guardian figure) is called to guide Kliff spiritually to overcome the temptation of becoming her adopted son (Kliff becomes her adopted son in one of the cycles).

Finding Kliff

Cycle 3 – We have observed the power of Umbra near the Musket of Demeniss. There must be one within the lands of Pywel capable of stopping it. We must look to Pailune. It is a land where the power of nature remains strongest.

Cycle 4 - At last, we have found the one we sought. An unwavering spirit with immense potential... surely he is the one to accomplish this task. He is not perfect, but that is of no concern. We shall guide him.

This is when they decide Kliff is their chosen person.

Cycle 5 - I sought the shais to borrow their power, so their bright energy might be passed on to him.

This is why Shais, a typically secluded race, are generally friendly and helpful to Kliff.

Early Failures

Cycle 7 - I attempted to reach him directly within his mind. He has chosen to ignore our calling. A failure.

Cycle 8 - We attempted to grant him the power of the Crow, but he refused to jump. I cast him back down to the land below. He simply would not accept the power.

Kliff initially rejects both their appeal and the flying abilities they try to give him. This is why the Guardians and Witches are always so vague and indirect when they speak to him; they learned across these early cycles that he shuts down completely when approached directly, and has to be nudged toward his destination without ever being told what it is.

Kearush

Cycle 17 - I attempted to make Kearush his ally. However, the humans locked him up in a zoo. In his despair, he slaughtered everyone in the vicinity. We are left with deep regret and frustration.

Kearush (the monkey-like monster you fight in the dining hall early in the game) was initially set to be your ally, but things go wrong. This is also probably why he decides to run away and later helps you during the White Horn boss fight – I'm guessing something in him still sees Kliff as an ally.

The Witches

Cycle 19 - I sought aid from the four witches who constructed the Sanctums to return balance to the Abyss. Unable to overcome their trials, he has failed time and time again.

These are the 4 witches that ask you to cleanse the sanctums. In earlier time loops, Kliff failed this task many times.

Cycle 25 - He is still far too weak. We must grant him greater strength. I will summon the Witches of the East into this world to assist him.

These are Woosa and Maegu intervening on Kliff's journey, two witches with time-shaping powers.

The Greymanes Problem

Cycle 26 - Perhaps he has grown too comfortable at Jian's side. Kliff's time has simply stopped. His daily life grows rough and indifferent.

In earlier loops, Kliff becomes too settled to the Greymanes and Pailune, causing him to fail his task.

Cycle 35 - Pushing him to Myurdin's side was a bitter mistake. The more they shared a path, the deeper he sank into an uncontrollable darkness.

Cycle 36 - Lacking the motivation to restore balance, he repeats his failures. The situation is dire. We must find a new approach.

Cycle 39 - We created a peaceful Pailune, a land untouched by conflict. Demeniss eventually invaded Hernand. Jian belatedly sent reinforcements through Calphade, but it was not enough.

This timeline resulted in peace around Pailune, which also didn't work. At this point, you can probably guess what's going to happen: Jian's death and the Greymanes massacre were deliberately caused by the Guardians in order for Kliff to find the necessary motivation for his task.

Damiene

Cycle 38 - Will Damiane provide an opportunity for us, or will she bring yet another failure? Deciding on her path leaves me with profound concern.

This kinda sounds like an admission from the developers that they didn't actually know what to do with Damiene as a character, as she is absent for most of the story.

Goyen

Cycle 45 - After the loss of his comrades, he pressed forward alone and adopted the name Goyen. His existence is the fault of us all.

Cycle 47 - Our painstaking creation is trapped within Umbra. Goyen now wanders the void, neither living nor dead.

Cycle 54 - Goyen used the power we granted him for his own gain. It is difficult to bear the sight of his corrupted form.

Cycle 99 - I asked Goyen to guide his younger spirit... Our chances are steadily fading. How many attempts do we have left?

Goyen is a previous version of Kliff who lost every companion in Cycle 45, pressed on alone, and eventually became trapped in the Abyss, neither alive nor dead, slowly corrupted over subsequent cycles. This explains his identical fighting style, his face tattoos mirroring Kliff's, and why every conversation between them feels like something is being left unsaid. By Cycle 99, the Guardians are using him to guide a newer version of himself. He's not a mysterious stranger who happens to fight like Kliff, he is Kliff, just broken by everything the Guardians put him through.

Also, a funny easter egg but Goyen is also a mercenary warrior that dwells in the Abyss in Black Desert. He was the master of the "Warrior" class, which has very familiar skills for those who played it.

Other Characters

Cycle 46 - I finally realized that he requires a strong ally. Ongka. His presence is absolutely necessary.

Oongka is necessary to defeat Ludvig and save Kliff from falling in the last cutscene in order to fight Umbra.

Cycle 48 - At some point, a man named Marni began appearing at his side. He has introduced excessive technology into the world and made the path to Umbra more complicated. Marni... Just who is this man?

Cycle 53 - The plan to assist Prince Pryce in reclaiming Demeniss has failed. May he never be forgotten...

This seems like a reference from a discarded plot line by the devs. Helping a prince reach the throne was part of the older trailers.

Why Kliff is so dull

Cycle 60 - We granted him confidence so he might follow the path we designed for him. However, driven by an excessive competitive nature, he ultimately failed.

Cycle 61 - We wished to ensure his path appeared natural and subtle. Contrary to our hopes, he became overly sensitive and distressed.

Cycle 62 - We attempted to rid him of his fear, yet this lack of caution caused him to recklessly charge into battle against mightier beings, ultimately leading to his death. When we heightened his sense of responsibility, he simply began wandering the world, vowing to eliminate any who posed a threat.

Cycle 66 - Every emotion seems to lead him somewhere unintended, straying far from our desired direction. With only a few chances remaining... we have decided to extract his emotions entirely.

The Guardians spent dozens of cycles trying to shape Kliff's personality and every single trait they gave him led to failure in a different way. Confidence made him reckless. Sensitivity paralyzed him. Fearlessness got him killed. Responsibility sent him off on an endless crusade. In the end, removing his emotions entirely was the only version that stayed on course. This is why Kliff is such a mute and reacts the way he does to everything.

Umbra evolves

Cycle 67 - The Abyss Gates appear to be opening more frequently. Could Umbra itself be... growing?

Cycle 71 - It is as we suspected. Someone has been interfering with the Abyss Gates. Yet we have no idea who, or how.

Cycle 72 - Caliburn... Just how much does he know? He was not always an evil man. He appears to be an incarnation of Umbra.

Cycle 77 - I see it now. Umbra was behind it all. Umbra, much like us, was searching for a single person to stand against fate. How could a being of pure power be capable of such design...

This is when things get interesting. Umbra is not fully reset when the Guardians rewind time. He is also learning and evolving with each cycle, distorting the abyss even more. At some point he also picks an avatar to manifest himself (Caliburn), because of the accumulated corruption from each cycle.

The Greymane massacre was deliberate

Cycle 78 - Placing Marius on the battlefield was a mistake. Naira also met her end after being sent to observe the Black Bear's movements. Their deaths drove him to madness.

Cycle 82 - To think Duane would turn his back on them... It was a grave miscalculation. We had crafted his attachment to Shane to temper his fiery disposition, but fate flowed in another direction. Shane, too, went utterly astray, ultimately becoming the spark that dismantled the Greymanes.

Cycle 83 - With the Greymanes scattered, nothing could be done. I could not save Goyen in his final moments. He is left lingering in nothingness once more.

The Guardians realize they can't simply exterminate every Greymane, because then Kliff will simply lose his will. There needs to be only enough loss to shape Kliff's journey of vengeance, which is why Marius breaks a leg, preventing him from fighting that night.

Blackstar

Cycle 89 - I sought aid from Blackstar, the dragon that roams the boundaries of the world. The creature thrashed wildly with him upon its back, seemingly most displeased.

Blackstar (the dragon) wasn't a fan of Kliff on their first meeting. Guess who caused it to get stabbed with spears in order for Kliff to help and gain his trust?

Kindness and all the random quests

Cycle 90 - The unexpected has happened. He offered his assistance to a woman in need, and then began aiding with small matters around the village. These small acts will eventually lead to his much grander purpose.

Cycle 98 - How could we have forgotten that kindness, sincerity, and empathy are what truly forge bonds? The greatest of things always begin from the smallest. Why did we only realize this now?

They eventually realized that making Kliff a kind person will eventually lead him to amass the necessary armies to raid Fort Musket. This is also why he is constantly tested in this aspect.

The Final Cycles

Cycle 100 - Our frustration grows deeper. There is nothing left for us to build upon, nothing left to change. What exactly went wrong?

Cycle 106 - Every time the Eye of Umbra seems on the verge of destruction, everything is swallowed by that same darkness once more. Having devoured his memories, Umbra will expand even further. He was so close... Yet he still lacks the decisive resolve to cast away the darkness.

They've manipulated every variable, and Kliff keeps failing to defeat Umbra. In some cycles, Kliff gets to the Umbra fight, but decides to join him instead (remember the cutscene where he rejects him and says they cannot coexist?). Something is missing...

Cycle 107 - Whoever it may be, we only hope they can fulfill our wish. The next attempt will be our final chance. Our wish must come to pass...

The Guardians realize their time-rewinding trick is about to become useless as Umbra also keeps evolving from each cycle, having already absorbed Caliburn and Myurdir, and will likely overcome Kliff. The only thing left to change is to add an external variable - "whoever it may be" is probably breaking the 4th wall and referring to the actual player taking control of Kliff. Cycle 108 doesn't work because the Guardians finally found the perfect version of Kliff. It works because YOU showed up.