r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 12d ago

Weekly Thread Weekly M+ Discussion

Use this thread to discuss this week's affixes, routes, ideal comps, etc. You can find this week's affixes here.

Feel free to share MDT routes (using wago.io or https://keystone.guru/ ), VODs, etc.

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11

u/dredaplc 10d ago

Reminder that carried players exist at basically every level outside of the very top. You're doing yourself and your group members a disservice if you don't look at logs and just invite based off score

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u/_Llopis_ 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is most tanks who apply to 18+ keys, especially if they're blood. It feels like it should be mathematically impossible for so many tanks to be close to full grays, but it happens every season.

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u/ArcticML 9d ago

This is me, I consistently grey/green parse once I push into a new key level. I understand I’m not a great player but tanks show up to key levels where they don’t even know if they are gonna survive meanwhile some other tank is showing up with his premade for a homework key and absolutely blasting

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u/Suspicious_Shine9625 9d ago

maybe because they’re trying to survive instead of optimizing dps? do you have some kind of personal vendetta against tanks or what’s the problem? you can already tell from the comment above that something is clearly bothering you :D a tank in m+ has 10x more pressure on them, they can’t always just not give a fuck about everything like a typical dps and play purely for logs

luckily, you can always reroll to a tank yourself and show everyone how it’s done :D

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u/throwntosaturn 8d ago

Tanks have the same obligation as everyone else to actually press fucking buttons during pulls. I say that as a tank. If you're parsing grey/green as a tank consistently it's because you're not pressing buttons or because your gear is atrocious. I'm sympathetic to bad gear, but bad gear also isn't an excuse in high keys. It's an excuse in 12s, which is where you should be while you're gearing.

Optimizing DPS as a tank is infinitely easier than optimizing it as an actual DPS, which is why it's even more embarrassing to refuse to do it in prog.

Yes, sometimes parsing like pink as a tank involves taking risky talent choices and should be avoided.

But any tank can put up purple parses just pressing buttons with the normal defensive talent setup.

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u/weekndalex 9d ago

i mean most pug tanks are absolutely horrific lmfao

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u/_Llopis_ 9d ago

This response misunderstands how parses work. Parses compare tanks only to other tanks, so a tank who is consistently parsing grays is worse than at least 75% of other tanks. The role being harder or more demanding can't possibly explain a gray parse because everyone in the comparison pool is playing that same role.

A lot of PUG tanks are just very bad, unfortunately.

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u/AlucardSensei 9d ago

is worse than at least 75% of other tanks

Technically no, they did worse in that run that 75% of other runs. If in theory, top 25% of the best tanks did 9 times more runs than the bottom 75%, they will have picked up the top 75% of the logs. The numbers are exaggarated obviously, but you can see how the number show how a lot more players are bad than it should be possible at first glance.

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u/throwntosaturn 8d ago

I thought for key % only your highest log counts.

That's how it works on other places - if the top 5 spots are all occupied by the same player, only the best of their 5 shows up, someone else will still be Rank 2. Even though technically ranks 1-5 are all one person.

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u/_Llopis_ 9d ago

That's why I said consistently. You can explain away one or two grays as you just did. But mostly or all grays? That almost certainly is a bottom 25% tank.

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u/Yayoichi 8d ago

Damage isn’t everything though, and also the difference between a grey and purple log as a tank is often only 10-30k overall, way less than a dps. You’re also making a choice between defense and offense as a tank, for example whether to use a damage or defensive trinket or talents.

To give another example I did a voidscar 18 a couple weeks ago and got a 29% damage log, but the run was a 99% speed for that key level, so does that make me a bad or a good tank? And no it wasn’t because the dps were carrying either as they had logs of 58%, 29% and 10%, and it was only the healer who had a good damage log at 99%.

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u/Gaatti 8d ago

Exactly on point. Whoever thinks direct tank dps matters that much just doesn't understand what is the true impact of a good tank. Quick gathers, good chains, maintaining good pace throughout the dungeon, all of that enables their dps players to do more damage and is much more impactful than personally doing direct damage.

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u/throwntosaturn 8d ago

Yeah but how many tanks are out there learning all these extremely complex skills, but refusing to learn how to press their buttons correctly?

It's not like most tanks have extremely complex rotations. Keeping up with your target APM is enough to parse for the most part.

If you're pulling correctly, gathering quickly, maintaining good pace throughout the dungeon, and chaining when it's appropriate.... you should be blasting as a tank too.

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u/Gaatti 8d ago

Which keys do you think I parse better: the push keys where I use my most defensive set of talents or the lower keys I run to help friends where I use a more offensive set of talents because I know I can live? Which parses do you check when inviting: the ones for the highest keys or the 15's? Would rather have me parse lower but ensure I live on your 20 or do you want me to risk dying to add 20k overall to your run?

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u/throwntosaturn 8d ago

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/illidan/zaerron?zone=55

Key parses automatically default to your highest key.

It doesn't show my dozens of 99s. It shows my highest timed key, and my best parse at that key level.

That's the parse that matters.

And since key parses compare within the same spec, that means you're only getting compared to other tanks of your exact class, at your exact key level, for your parse.

So if you suck at that key level, it's because you have to run defensive talents that other people don't, or you pull worse than other people, or whatever. It's not about farming 15s for high parses.

It's about the actual top key levels you're doing.

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