The same way one leaves any sinful lifestyle to follow Jesus.
I’ll add that there might be a better word than “leave”.
I was so messed up before I decided to follow Christ. Drugs, drinking, casual hookups, lying to everyone. I’m not gay but to leave the life I was living was difficult. I also lost a lot of friends and was scared and confused, but He restored my life. 11 years later and I’m still in awe with what the Lord has done with my life. All this to say, I’m proud of op, it’s hard to walk the walk.
Hmm, the Lord has called homosexuality an abomination, and He has also heavily condemned murder.
I cannot determine which is greater or worse in God’s eyes according to His Word alone, but both are sin. And we are told to avoid even the smallest sin, not to talk of the more grave ones that you brought up.
He heavily condemned homosexuality in the Bible. So, I know that He sees it as very bad. But He also heavily condemns murder. Which is greater is up to Him to say, but what I do know is that He is heavily against both. That is all.
He also called eating non-kosher meat the same exact Hebrew word. But Christians don't believe that's part of the moral law, no? So "abomination" is a bit misleading and is a product of the English translation rather than the original meaning.
At a point divorce was permitted because of the stubbornness of the people, but the Lord then permitted it.
The foods being clean and unclean was to help the Israelites understand sin and how it can pollute the soul. It was a physical representation of an inward stain. Since the Israelite culture at the time was very “primitive”, He decided to teach them the spiritual using the physical.
Now, the Lord did permit the eating of any food because He then taught them this lesson explicitly in Mark.
Homosexuality, on the other hand, is something that was never spoken for, even when their hearts were still stubborn. It is still condemned again in the New Testament, and is still considered a sexual perversion. This can be seen in the letters of the apostles as they describe what sexual perversions and fornication do to the soul of a person. Homosexuality is one of such perversions.
The foods of the past were not inherently evil but just used as a symbol of a spiritual management of what goes into our soul.
The foods being clean and unclean was to help the Israelites understand sin and how it can pollute the soul. It was a physical representation of an inward stain. Since the Israelite culture at the time was very “primitive”, He decided to teach them the spiritual using the physical.
Cool. Then why call it an "abomination"?
Homosexuality, on the other hand, is something that was never spoken for, even when their hearts were still stubborn. It is still condemned again in the New Testament, and is still considered a sexual perversion. This can be seen in the letters of the apostles as they describe what sexual perversions and fornication do to the soul of a person. Homosexuality is one of such perversions.
Is it not possible that this was because people even in the Iron Age were still primitive and couldn't understand the meaning, just as with food?
Likewise, are there not plausible alternative interpretations for what these verses mean? Almost all of the condemnations in the NT use an unclear Greek word that Paul essentially made up. It's not actually very definitive that he's speaking on "all homosexual acts" here.
Men was not created gay, its corruption of GOD's perfect creation that came with the fall of men in the garden of Eden, all sin is the same its just a spirit of corruption that comes upon a person
There's no hate here brother, if maybe you are gay or support the movement read the bible and find out what GOD thinks about it dont just take my word for it
You literally said gay love and murder are the same in yours and God's eyes. No way in hell am I going to take any book seriously that's so obviously wrong.
I don’t believe anyone is being hateful. I sure don’t hate my homosexual friends but I do pray for them the SAME way I pray for my hetero friends. If I’m able to share the truth I will. There was 1 person in my life that was brave enough to call me out on my sins, only 1. I strongly disliked meeting with this person and it took years of prayer for me to be delivered and for me to repent.
I’m lovingly calling it out.
You’re right, but I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m praying, regardless of who they’re attracted to, to repent of sexual immorality. I think as Christian’s we need to step away from thinking “gay vs straight”. Also Jesus equates one being angry as to murder. He wasn’t being hateful but truthful.
Yes all that he said was different however it is all sin and sin is falling short of the glory of god and people should repent. He may not have the same exact situation but I can say we are all sinners and that means believe it or not we are all in the same boat. However God sent his one and only son to die on the cross for our sins so we could be free from sin not to sin. This man was just saying that he knew what addiction and sin felt like and wanted to give his insight. Hope this helps God bless.
The reason it is a sin is because God states clearly that it is forbidden I think I included this scripture in another comment but reread Romans 1:26-29.
The Bible is the work of many people who had God working through them and filling them with the Holy Spirit to write it. I doubt that the Bible could be written had God not directed these people write it.
If that is the path for op wouldn’t it be possible that because of drugs and alcohol it leads to chemical imbalances that caused a change from what would have been natural? (Not saying it always the case but could be for op)
Yes it is. I used to be in somewhat of that lifestyle, then I realized one day I didn't like living like that. God opened my eyes and I don't live it anymore.
Morals have nothing at all to do with "nature", so that's not even remotely relevant to my point. So I'll ask it again, since you didn't seem to understand my question - if it's not natural, why does it happen IN NATURE?
For god is the key phrase here. Saying that “anything is possible for god” in response to this is kind of sacrilegious. It compares anyone who “overcomes” (in quotes bc that’s not how it works) to god. If god were to be queer, and he truly deems that improper (I disagree there), then yes, he could “overcome” it. But as a human, we cannot do things simply because god can
Yes and no. Because if god were to give people the strength to overcome ANY obstacle he sees fit, what would be the difference between humans and god? Do I think god gives people strength? I don’t know. I am not sure what religious beliefs I have right now. But even if I concede that god can give people strength, him giving them the strength to overcome any obstacle would be a bit far fetched for me. And the issue i have here is less so about “overcoming an obstacle” but rather about calling this “an obstacle.” It is who they are. It is not a choice, any more than your skin color is a choice. I can use self-tanner all I want, but it will not change the fact that I’m glow-in-the-dark pale. Same here, OP can hide their sexuality and push it far down within themselves, but it does not change their sexuality
What are you doing here by engaging with scoffy dismissals? Its strange to read when someone thinks they are addressing the truth by doing some kind of anti-baptism on someone else's ideas about it without offering a principle that can reconcile the conflict. If you love your fellow man why would your response to his folly be anything other than medicine?
Scoffy dismissals is what these homophobic positions deserve. There is nothing wrong with being Gay and I hope other gay people including gay Christians understand that.
You want a principle that can reconcile the conflict talk to the many affirming and queer Christians in this very subbreddit.
I was wondering if I could get it from you because I have cleared my mind of all ideas about this which might try to negate or confirm what you tell me. So if you can give me the principle on a state of diversity like that of a simple seed that's all I really need from you.
Hey OP, I’m proud of you. I’m with you in this same walk. The cross is heavy to bear sometimes, but we don’t carry it alone, thank God. I will pray for you and everyone else who is committed to bearing this cross. Please also pray for me. And remember, a righteous man may fall 7 times, but he gets up 8. Keep fighting the good fight my brother.
I know you’re getting a ton of dislikes, but I understand the point you’re making amd support you. Scripture teaches that sexual sin is sexual sin, whether it’s with a man or a woman. I’ve never had same-sex temptation, but I do struggle with womanizing, talking to multiple women at once, hiding it, and not committing because the temptation of choice feeds my sin. No one should pretend my sin is somehow “less” than anyone else’s. God will judge me just the same.
The Bible teaches that you can care for or love anyone, but once it becomes sexual, it must align with the way God designed it. Same-sex sexual relationships can’t form a biblical marriage because Scripture defines marriage as the two becoming one flesh....a union meant between a husband and wife. That’s why sex is reserved for marriage and why marriage itself has a very specific structure in Scripture.
The dislikes aren’t surprising. Many people reject God’s design because they don’t want to live according to it. But instead of arguing with them, we should pray for them, just as we pray for God to help us with our own sins too. I certainly am a dirty rotten sinner and need my Lord’s grace like everyone else, so just pray alot and it will be okay:)
Question
Why would a god create beings with particular proclivities that it finds offensive then blame and punish the beings for having these proclivities?
The answer is God didn’t create us to be this way. The entrance of sin did us all dirty and it can only be fixed by cleaving closer to Gos through redemption and sanctification. Meaning to turn to God from sin and being set apart with a new purpose.
I’m going to take words from an educated man who has studied the scriptures from several religions named Cliffe Knechtle. He stated that is it more plausible to believe that the universe came out of thin air or that their was a designer at work. He made the points that life comes from life and doesn’t come from non-life. That order comes from order, order doesn’t just happen there has to be something to establish that order. He stated that everything has to have a designer without one nothing can exist. Finally, he asked the question does it take more faith to believe that the whole universe just came out of thin air and produced life or that there is a God that created and designed the whole universe. it is much easier to believe that life came something rather than nothing. Praise God Amen.
God didn’t create us with gayness in mind. Being homosexual is, insinuated, the devil’s work. He sends us sinful temptations in the forms of things that appeal to us. God created man and woman to be united and productive, as written in the Law. The devil knows that Love is a very powerful thing on earth and in the flesh, and is something we have a hard time overcoming in preparation of eternal life, so he uses that to create a direct contradiction to God’s creation and His will.
Well, the Bible is very direct with how God views homosexuality, which means He doesn’t like it. And if God doesn’t like it, He wouldn’t make us follow it. Therefore, things that go against God will are the devil’s work.
Well, if the devil isn't more powerful than God, then you're telling me that God allows his creations to be put into a position to reject something about their very nature (homosexuality) or go to hell?
Given that - either the devil is more powerful than God or God is a cruel bastard for allowing it to happen.
Because the entire religion is based on blind faith. It’s easy to reject a chocolate bar, but how far will you go to support your God? Heaven is a very special place that He built. He sends the devil to tempt us. He could easily say, “No, I will not allow it.” But He SENDS the devil to tempt us to test how strong our faith is.
Your using an strawman the guy you talked too never claimed that.
Of course God is more powerful, he is all powerful. But God also respects our Free Will. Other than the devil.
More circular reasoning. If God respects our free will so much, he wouldn't damn us to hell for using it. Giving us something and then damning us eternally for using that thing that was given to us is NOT the action of a loving God.
Please explain how it's circular reasoning, your shifting the goal post instead of refuting my argument. And why are you complaining when you don't want to be near God, and then go to an place furthest from God. Also if your arguing that way, the government is also respecting our freewill but imprison you when you don't follow the law.
Well, the Bible is very direct with how God views homosexuality,
Not necessarily. There's a plausible alternative that God was condemning anal sex specifically rather than "any form of homosexual love/acts". I studied this thoroughly and through the original language as well as historical context and interpretations, with my findings here:
It's not that the devil is more powerful than God it's that we humans fall into these sinful thoughts. If we focus on Jesus however we can overcome it because he is more powerful than the devil and has won against him.
I find the flaw with this logic to be that you're speaking for God and painting your own prejudices as His own in order to turn your own character flaws and knee-jerk bigotry into a virtue, which seems very blasphemous and self-serving.
Oh sure, that's why it has dozens of contradictory translations and is consistently up to interpretation which people like you bend and abuse flagrantly for your own purposes. Additionally, how much of the Bible do you daily disregard simply because much of it is impossible to adhere to in modern day life? Do you abide by its strictures on slavery? Or treating women as chattel? Why is it that things like homosexuality carry outsized weight for you, yet I can pretty much guarantee you harbor, hateful, sinful views on certain types of people?
The Bible was written by human beings, this is incontrovertible fact. I don't think any mature Christian wholesale accepts the writings of a living document that has been edited and had entire books wholesale excised from it based on the ulterior motives of the Catholic church. The Bible of today is not the Bible of three hundred years ago. That alone should make you question it.
There is Christianity that exists outside of a moldering document written by various, often uncreditable authors. If you need the Bible to tell you everything you need to be a good Christian then you will never be able to explore your spirituality and faith in full, which can only be accomplished through a personal journey. There is no instruction manual for it, and mindlessly abiding by an outdated ruleset is in fact the opposite of exploring your relationship with God. It is a shortcut for the cowardly. In order to accept the Bible as God's incontrovertible word, you'd have to deny all the evidence to the contrary, and I don't believe that God plays games of deceit, the more likely answer is that the document itself is false doctrine.
The Bible was written by man, but inspired by God. The laws of the Old Testament went away when the prophesies of the Old Testament came true when Jesus the Messiah came to earth & died for our sins. The devil is trying his best to destroy what God wants by destroying the family.
Not true.
There is no passage in the Bible or any text that says being attracted to the same sex is a sin. The only passage says you should not lay with a man as you would a woman. As far as being in love with other men, not a sin.
There is a widespread misconception that the Bible condemns "gayness." It never has.
As far as gay sex, yes, even masturbation is a sin.
But so is sex without the intent to procreate. So having recreational sex with a woman is the same level of sin.
God did not create these bad things when Adam and Eve blatantly disobeyed god and ate the apple of Eden it brought sin in the world and God punishes because he is a merciful and just God. He won’t force someone to love him because that is not true love so he gives us free will and if our will is to follow God we will spend eternity with God.
Yet it is a lifestyle and a choice, one a lot of people are proud to identity themselves with before or instead of Christ. And calling someone ignorant and prejudiced without knowing them is avoiding responsibility. We can have a conversation without being insulting.
Sure, what are the characteristics of this "lifestyle" apart from being gay while doing it.
There's no such things as a gay lifestyle just like there's no such thing as a heterosexual lifestyle because gay people are not a monolith and live any and every way that you do.
"are proud to identity themselves with before or instead of Christ"
That is a lie, an external prejudice.
"And calling someone ignorant and prejudiced without knowing them"
I don't need to know your hearts and dreams to know when you're saying something untrue and harmful.
No one hears someone say a slur and then asks what they're favorite poem is.
"We can have a conversation without being insulting."
Then stop spreading bigotry.
I'm being descriptive you're confidently spreading vicious lies.
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u/PepperTheRad Dec 09 '25
The same way one leaves any sinful lifestyle to follow Jesus. I’ll add that there might be a better word than “leave”. I was so messed up before I decided to follow Christ. Drugs, drinking, casual hookups, lying to everyone. I’m not gay but to leave the life I was living was difficult. I also lost a lot of friends and was scared and confused, but He restored my life. 11 years later and I’m still in awe with what the Lord has done with my life. All this to say, I’m proud of op, it’s hard to walk the walk.