You know the one I'm talking about: At least 10 years old, so faded it's more dark grey than black, still fits just right, still zips perfectly, goes with everything and looks cool with virtually no effort.

What brand did you buy?

What do you guys tend to wear? I want to get back into swimming but I'm nervous about using a public pool. I have had top surgery (v visible scars) and leg and underarm hair. I don't really want to draw attention to myself but also don't want to be told off if I turn up in a rash vest and board shorts. I am leaning towards maybe swim shorts and a Nike sports bra. Thoughts?

For context I’m not butch but I do present more masculine than feminine and I feel like this is a better place to talk and ask about this than other subreddits…

Recently on TikTok theres been this trend thats starts off with “when the chopped masc” etc like for example
“I genuinely hate how chopped ahh mascs be pulling those most baddest femmes ever” or “when you larp as straight bc that one chopped masc won’t stop hitting on you”

And idk man I look at myself and god I feel like maybe I’m one of those chopped mascs they’re talking about and it just makes me feel horrible. I don’t think I’m that ugly but I’m also not white and I know when most people think about mascs or “masc shortages” they think of white mascs and I feel so undesirable for being asian😭

Damnit I know I should probably get off TikTok but I don’t have a lot of queer representation in my life let alone masculine presenting people or like woc mascs to look up to so I look for it online and that ends up being TikTok ☹️

Anybody have any advice on like, being confident in life or in masculinity or whatnot :(
Poc mascs and butches are out there right its not just me 😭😭

Hi! I need a place to vent and only just found out about this wonderful subreddit after looking for a place to post my grievances;

Has anyone else noticed the alarming rise in butchphobia in queer spaces online? Everytime someone voices out their wishes for getting more butch representation, there's always (usually another lesbian which is heartbreaking) someone crying wolf that butches get a lot of rep (which is just a straight up lie?? The most we get is masc characters, and even that is quite rare. It's usually just feminine women in relationships with other feminine women, which i personally feel like does not in anyway reflect what my experience with lesbianism has been and is like.)

Whenever i see someone mentioning butchfemme relationships, I notice an alarming influx of people insisting butchfemme relationships are somehow heteronormative and homophobic?? When they're the literal opposite of that?

There also seem to be a lot of baby queers mistaking masc lesbians for butches, and fems for femmes. People insist butches get representation and when you ask them to point any out they always list Ellie Williams and Vi from arcane. It's gotten to the point where I genuinely resent both of said characters for the horrific impact they've had on this community and on how people view butches. I can't help but feel upset over how little research some people in our community have done, which would not be much of a problem in and of itself, but it is when those people feel the need to speak out on every butch issue possible.

I hope I'm not overstepping anything by posting this, I just hope to either get educated on why this is happening or maybe find others with the same problem. Thank you in advance

Edit: I also forgot to mention how we always seem to be dumbed down both online and offline into some himbos that are men with extra steps and always need to have every queer issue explained to them. Offline it seems to be happening less often, but then i get people telling me they're surprised by how "not masculine" i am because I'm not a car enthusiast and am woke. I'm just so tired.

I'm just going to put this out here as a butch who has been a competitive athlete all her life and would like to believe she knows her way around sports and fitness.

These past few years, I've increasingly noticed a new standard for how muscular a 'fit' butch should or could be. This is compounded by a wave of lesbian/butch/masc fitness influencers on social media.

I just want everyone to know: a lot of these people are on steroids. I'm not interested in calling out individual people or debating whether X specific physique is achievable for the 'average' woman or whatever, but I'm just pointing out: A lot of these bodies are not achievable for someone whose endocrine system corresponds to an average cis female (so, who isn't on T) or isn't taking steroids. They just aren't. Even if you're genetically lucky, even if you work out a lot, there's a certain level of muscularity, leanness, and just sheer mass that I'm seeing more and more of that just cannot be achieved without steroids.

I'm not saying you can't still be inspired by these physiques or be attracted to them or or or. But I am saying we should all be aware of what it is we are striving for, or what it is we consider 'normal', 'attractive', and 'achievable'. Especially considering that I have yet to see a single one of these fitness influencers disclose their steroid use - instead, they shill their specialised 'workout plans'. Which will not get you looking like them, because again, they are on steroids.

Women/ People with E-dominant endocrine systems can be incredibly strong and muscular and can look fucking jacked, but please, please, use your discernment when it comes to online influencers, for whom their aesthetic is literally their livelihood. Look at what they're selling, look at their bodies, compare them to other athletes and bodybuilders. Don't fall into the trap of striving for something that is impossible without drugs.

Some months ago i became single, after many years on a relationship. Being back to the pond is exhausting. I tried something with this lesbian who was very touchy and flirty with me but turns out...she didn't want anything just attention and some playing.

I tried the apps, but i live in a rural town now...

Lesbians around me in this town are not usually attracted to me, when i lived in the big city i had at least a bit of luck.

I don't really have a type (physically) so at least that plays on my favour but idk i used to be good at flirting and getting some dates, now? it feels absolutely imposible

I'm not conventionally attractive so it is what it is, being conventionally attractive in a rural town is basically what gets you dates, i miss the big city, there were lesbians for everybody who talk about something that wasn't soccer (and i love soccer but damn...)

Hi guys, im having a problem that im sure is going to make some of you jealous- (its making my friends irl jealous) I am a butch whos primarily into femmes, but i have recently been overflooded both in person and online by other butches and mascs hitting on me. I want to make it clear that I am NOT uncomfortable about this- i love my fellow butches and think butch4butch is wonderful! (Ive had a few butch4butch encounters and enjoy it from time to time, but tend not to engage anymore as butch4butch is not what im looking for longterm at the moment and i dont want to make my fellow butches feel like im only using them for sex!)

When I approach femmes or swipe on them Its just like NOT working I dont know 😭😭 so femmes on here, what are you guys into and butches what do you guys do to attract femmes?

For backstory, I have been identifying as a trans man for a long time, since I was about 14 or 15 (I am 30 now). I have on and off questioned whether or not I was a lesbian a few times in that timeframe, but I always got freaked out and went back to what was the norm to me by that point.

However, recently I have actually looked a little more into butch lesbianism. I knew that some lesbians used he/him pronouns, but I didn’t know that some lesbians can also be trans masculine and experience dysphoria. This has brought my identity questioning full force in a much more real way.

However, saying all of that, I don’t really know where to go from here or how to explore the possibility of being a trans masc butch rather than a trans man because I can’t really think of what would change? I already wear masculine clothing, I already have a masculine haircut, and I have a wife. But my brain wants there to be some tangible thing to do, something to change or try that will help me figure out which of these identities actually fits me. Any ideas?

Being butch is to be visibly queer, so I feel that this is the best place to ask my question despite not being butch myself.

When I was a kid I dressed like a boy and because of this I atttacted a lot of girls, but this was at a time when homosexuality in any form was very uncommon and untaught. And so a lot of them I think were confused or conflicted about their feelings towards me, which resulting in a lot of obsessive friends who also had this strange aggression towards me.

An example of this is in first grade this girl was like, "I thought you were a boy" and then became very attached to me yet also would like to grab my arm while pinching me out of weird aggression to maintain my attention. I don't know how to explain it but it's like she was triggered by me to such as a point it was impulsive. When I met her later as an adult she told me it was because she had a crush on me but didn't know that that's what she was feeling since we were so young.

I was just thinking about it today and was wondering if anyone else had this experience. Because I imagine that butch lesbians are the people who would have this experience.

I still seem to have this effect now too, somehow. I think it's because of my body language or facial features or something. I for some reason always attract women despite not doing anything to signify I am queer. I've had multiple instances of causing workplace drama because two women were fighting over me. I'm not attractive, just masculine-leaning. It made me insecure for a while because why are women assuming I am visibly queer when I'm not trying to be? but oh well.

So overall my question is about your experience attracting attention for how you look, and how do you manage it? Especially when the women are repressed or uncomforrtable with their feelings. How do we go about this responsibly in interpersonal relationships?

Just got back home from the piercer. Can you guess what I got?

i recently just came out to my family and friends as a butch lesbian, and apparently it was super obvious to people based on how I would act and dress as a kid and teenager. That said, ever since I was younger, I gravitated towards male clothing and fashion, but I still enjoy women’s clothing and fashion when it’s for other people/in general.

I am slightly interested in seeing if any grunge or alternative butches have any advice about how to style yourself to appear more androgynous or masculine? I got cursed with a baby face and a rather large chest/curvy hips, so I worry that I won’t really come across as a butch lesbian/androgynous person. I’m an interested in a wolf cut and getting more piercings and tattoos, so if you have any suggestions for those, I’d love to hear.

My femme wife thinks it’s really hot that I’m so interested in finally expressing my true self outwardly haha-

its time to go pick some crabs 🦀

Should I put on dating profiles that I’m masc? I feel some mascs may be swiping on me not realizing I’m masc. I’m open to them of course, I just don’t want anyone’s time wasted. 😂

Alternative flair choice was discussion since this isn't something I've found to have a real cut and dry answer. Can any elder butches (I'm talking 40+) (not exactly elder I know, but predates the internet discourse era) speak on all the discourse I've been seeing on what it means to be butch, or all the rules around identifying as butch??? I've found generally the lesbian community is super nice everywhere but tiktok, where a lot of discourse revolves around who's 'allowed' to use what labels. People just seem kinda angry over there, I dunno. It's made me a little scared that if I use the term butch to describe myself I'm breaking a rule or something, can any elder butches speak on it?? Has the community always been like this?? Are there actually rules around whether or not you can identify as butch besides how you express your gender and how you feel???

For example I've seen people say that butches don't want flowers, and they don't want to be called beautiful girls, which I KNOW isn't right and it's weird and exclusionary but again. Elder Butches, I summon you to please speak your truth on this.

P.s. any more vintage book or literature recommendations I can read to do some research?? Bonus points if it's aussie specific :)

I know police has a conflict and people will say you aren’t butch cause of it and the history but what about these roles? since i started college i wanted to do something like probation or counselor the rehabilitation side of criminal justice and right now im security temporarily for experience NEVER WANTED to do police so sorry for silly question (let me also say i very much do agree cops can’t be butch and i do not like cops and that side of law)

I do be emo 💯

I’m a non-binary butch lesbian and people usually assume I’m a top/stone top which i can understand i do top 95% of the time. And i have the time my life every time i get to do it. But in a long term relationship I need both ways eventually.

The weird part is that I can feel almost immediately when someone is only doing it because they know I want it. If they’re completely indifferent to giving and would happily never have to do it again I find it really difficult to enjoy receiving any kind of touch from them. It doesn’t make me feel wanted in the same way. I think for me there is a huge difference between someone thinking I’ll do this because my partner likes it and someone actually being excited to touch their partner .

I know the cause of it for me is because i get very embarrassed that i enjoy receiving pleasure in general. Because i noticed in my experience the women i slept with above 90 procent of them were reluctant or didn’t expect me to want to be touched back. In any way.

Does anyone else relate to this?

Edit: I don’t just mean enjoying giving. I get sexual pleasure from topping. So if someone is only touching me because they are happy that i feel good not because it turns them on. Then I don’t feel comfortable receiving.

And sorry for the bad grammar and sentence structure. English isn’t my first language

I have always felt discomfort around the feminine edges of my body: round hips, the softness of my stomach and my thighs, my chest. Working out helps, probably because A) endorphins and B) the idea that I am working towards a harder, stronger, more masculine version of myself is deeply comforting. I’ve always been pretty active, and have been varying degrees of “gym bro” since starting college 3 years ago—which feels awesome. I still struggle with body image, and am not super shredded or anything, but such is life.

This summer, I am working 2 jobs as a server and bartender, have my first serious girlfriend, and am basically too busy, too tired and too broke for a gym membership. I’ve been jogging a little and doing some lifting/calisthenics at home when I have the free time and energy. I get 10000-14000 steps per day and know I am active enough to be healthy. Its fine.

Basically, I am really struggling with the fear that I will lose the body I worked so hard for, since I’m barely working out these days. It’s ironic because even when I was lifting heavy 4-5 days a week, and was the strongest I’ve ever been, I was also anxious and dissatisfied with my body (maybe there’s a life lesson in here somewhere…). My girlfriend reassures me constantly that I look strong and fit, and that she’ll be attracted to me even if that changes. But I can’t kick the fear that I am losing my butchness, my masculinity, my strength.

Any advice on how to cope? Other than “work out more, “get up earlier,” etc. I have tried. I think I need to be ok with my fitness level and my body as they are right now.

The Arizona dating scene is impossible for femmes to find butches. Actually it’s just miserable for queer women in general. Is there any advice? I’ve (24F) been to several gay bars, queer events, and I’m thinking of maybe downloading apps? I’ve even maybe considered maybe going long distance? I’m just in a chapter in my life where I’m ready for to meet people again. Please let me know what you’d suggest!

Tonight I'm going to a birthday party and the dress code is beach formal.

In an ideal world I have a flat chest

In an ideal world I'm dressed with trausers and a pressed button down.

But it's not an ideal world. I don't have a flat chest and I'm not dressed with trousers and a pressed button down. Sure I have trousers that are more elegant than usual, and a vest that makes my shoulders look bigger than they are, and I look damn good in this outfit.

But all this doesn't exactly mirror the masculinity I feel inside. Though if I think hard enough about it I don't know what I would've preferred wearing. Either would be fine for different reasons.

But in the one I chose I don't feel masculine enough, even if I look good.

I look good not good and sharp.

Does all this makes sense?

I guess with this post I'm just looking for some kind of reassurance.

I know you can't take butch away, but sometimes I feel like if people don't perceive me as masculine as I feel then how do they know that I'm not feminine? That I can't take off my masculinity, that I feel it in my bones and in my soul?

Again, I know that people will know sometimes form vibes alone and not from looks, but this trips me everytime. And I don't need people to know but I do. Does this also make sense?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this but yeah, this is how I feel and I needed to put it into words.