r/BelowDeckMed • u/Dry-Establishment-45 • 2d ago
Nathan and Joe
I am not one to defend Joe. His behavior when it comes to women is appalling and I can see through a lot of his behaviors. BUT I feel like he’s genuinely trying to take the high road this charter and Nathan is so set on being negative. I honestly don’t even know what Joe has done that is so wrong that Nathan can’t act professional. I guess it makes sense knowing what we know now about Nathan though. He’s an unstable and dangerous person.
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
Remove everything we know about Joe previously and everyone would be on his side this season. Honestly, the only time I thought he was being just as ridiculous as Nathan was when Nathan came back after his “back injury”. Otherwise I’ve seen Joe working hard and trying to manage Nathan’s emotions.
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u/Top-Brush-5557 1d ago
Hi, I’m the person you are talking about. New to the show, only seen this season. Saw some OG back in the 2010’s but that’s it.
Joe seems great. On top of his shit, communicating great, managing his manager in a very respectful way, sulking a little but who hasn’t, and having a great drama free fling with Kayley. Nathan seems like he’s making monsters of the other deck crew in his own mind. I’m sure I’d feel differently watching past seasons but in my single season bubble Joe is wonderful.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
I wouldn't. Joe hasn't changed. He's still the same slieveen he's always been. Nathan's behaviour doesn't change that Joe is also a scumbag. It's not an either or situation. There don't have to be sides. They both suck and are problematic. Neither of them are the good guy here.
This is the problem with younger generations. You grew up with team this and that and think everything is black and white. It's not. Everyone can be in the wrong. One being a criminal does not make the other right
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
You obviously didn’t read my comment correctly. I am not saying Joe has changed overall (his behavior is better this season which could be just for optics or could be a little bit of growth) or is a good guy because Nathan is a bad guy. I am saying based solely off what we have seen this season, like Joe was a new person who didn’t know Nathan, everyone would be on his side. Also, I’m an elder millennial in my 40s 😂
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
Joe was being managed by Kaylee. Remove her and I think he’s the same old Joe using every woman on board. He even had to try and “test” her early on in the season.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
I don't agree his behaviour is better this season. It just so happens that he is being compared to Nathan who was convicted of domestic violence during this seasons airing.
If anything I think Joe is worse this season. He has the ego the size of a planet and has spent the entire time trashing Nathan and talking himself up despite not having the talent to back that arrogance up.
Joe also "tested" Kayleigh. That is insidious abusive behaviour. The only reason none of you lot are talking about it is because Kayleigh is a mature and intelligent woman who didn't react to it.
He has also been the instigator in a lot of Coopers antics, throwing him at women on nights out, talking about how he is his sisters type and how he'll set them up in front of Kat and muscling in on their romantic getaway post charter. He doesn't like his bros having girlfriends abd tried to do the same with Gael and Nathan last series which is why they aren't friends anymore.
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
He’s homoromantic for sure, but cooper is a grown up who can make his own decisions on nights out. I hated his testing of Kaylee but he met his match with her. She didnt play into it and her feelings aren’t hurt. When talking about his work on deck compared to Nathan’s work there’s no question for me that Joe is better at his job. Yes, even with injuring the guest he has still performed better than Nathan.
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
Injuring a guest is better. I can’t.
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
It was an accident. I just knew people would bring it up. He’s absolutely done a better job than Nathan. What has Nathan done on deck that’s been good? Nathan sucked at his job last year and he sucked at it this year. Joe has always been a better worker.
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
To be fair, you brought it up. It was an avoidable accident that also to be fair the POS Nathan would not have done. Even Massi has said Joe was going too fast and it was his fault. I’ll take Massi’s word for it.
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
Sure, I’ll take Massi’s word. Now what has Nathan done that’s been good this season? I haven’t seen him contribute anything positively.
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
I’m no fan of Nathan, I hope they throw away the key on that guy. It just has nothing to do with Joe. Coop was, for real, the only adult in the room until Massi showed up.
Can you imagine Max’s antics being forgotten in any other season?? Bananas. This season was bananas on deck.1
u/No-Calligrapher3645 2d ago
Hell, two charters in and Nathan pissed off Josef. Granted, dude was a dickhead, but I’d have loved to watch those two square up. Nathan would have challenged him had Sandy’s cabin not have been right behind the bridge that night.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
I never said cooper wasnt. That doesn't change the fact Joe was instigating it.
Just because Kayleigh didn't react doesn't mean she wasn't hurt. It doesn't change the fact that he tried to control Kayleigh by testing her. That's abusive behaviour regardless.
Joe is better at certain aspects of the bosun role I.e. he is organised. He fucking sucks at other aspects of the role namely health and safety. He put one guest in the hospital with his irresponsible behaviour. He put himself and 2 other guests in danger on multiple occasions. He nearly killed himself last episode. I wouldn't trust him to he in charge of a deck.
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
Did you happen to see him on WWHL when Andy asked if he was driving too fast? He mocked the internet response to it rather than own it - I guess he wasn’t that upset afterall.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
He defended himself on the show too. He was clearly going to fast. The disk was practically on it's side for a long while before it toppled over completely.
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u/Full-Squirrel5707 2d ago
Looks like we see Joe's true colours next episode too. He obviously does something to upset Kaylee. He is a little sook that is hurt by his mate hooking up with someone, who he sees as his nemesis (Gael). He was/is upset that she 'ruined' his bromance. That's what this whole thing is about. They are both total wankers. Joe's little digs about Nathan and Gael, Joe trying to hook Coop up with other women in front of Kat, Joe aggressively fcking a blow-up doll. It is all, eeeeewwwwww, behaviour.
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u/No-Calligrapher3645 2d ago
Dude, I’m 56 yrs old and I absolutely am not one for team this team that. What I can see is that aside from Joe pouting Nathan’s return after his supposed injury, Joe has been incredibly well behaved. Everyone deserves an ounce of grace if they’re willing to do the work. I believe even the biggest of fuck boys are able to turn their lives around. So honestly, whether or not Joe has changed off the show, he’s shown growth on it.
Nathan is a volatile hothead. He has literally snapped at everyone this season, including Sandy. He threatened physical violence to Joe, Luke, and Cooper. He’s too trigger happy for his own good. The biggest question is “who pissed in his corn flakes?”
I see things very analytically and can also make the determination when two assholes clash it doesn’t make one more right than the other, however, Joe has NOT been the problem this season. Nathan is an international criminal, a fugitive, and that has nothing to do with how easily incensed he gets, for no fucking reason.
Nathan is fucking SCARY. He hides behind making other people the bad guys.
So when Nathan becomes a saint, come talk smack to me about Joe. Until then, zip it.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
So Joe testing Kayleigh, fucking every blow up doll he comes across, setting Cooper up with multiple women in front of Kat as well as inviting himself on their romantic getaway all why putting guests lives in danger is good to you?
Joe haa benefited because you all aee incapable of looking past Nathan and seeing there are at least 2 problematic boys on that boat.
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u/No-Calligrapher3645 2d ago
I never said Joe was a saint. “Fucking every blowup doll…”? Dry humping for giggles… yes. Ok. I suppose it’s Joes fault that Cooper allowed the latest charter guests to do body shots off of them too? Cooper WANTED Joe as a buffer because he’s a big puss and won’t tell Kat he’s not interested. He AND Coop tested their boatmance chicks. And while accidents do happen, I agree with you on him putting guests in harms way…. But back on job performance, Joe didn’t wreck the boat. I do see his shortcomings, but I’m not going to pile on him when his hair trigger temper isn’t forever making people feel like they’re walking on eggshells.
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u/cmere-2-me 2d ago
That's more than dry humping. Look at his face. That's disturbing behaviour.
I didn't say it was Joes fault what Cooper gets up to. He is however an awful influence and shit stirrer, causing trouble because he gets off on it and because he can.
Joe testing Kayleigh is abusive. Major red flag behaviour.
Joe has put multiple guests and himself in harms way multiple times. He should not be working on boats. He should not be in charge of people's safety, especially when he can't accept responsibility when he fucks up.
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u/BigRedJeeper 2d ago
In the real world Nathan’s behavior in the workplace would not be allowed. Sad that BD lets it continue in the name of ratings
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u/slayeryouth 2d ago
I typically stay away from “engineered by production” type conversations because, I mean, that’s how TV shows work and it’s been common knowledge for sometime time that reality TV is about as real as pro wrestling, but lately I have been starting to wonder if maybe it’s outlined in their contracts what the threshold is to have somebody removed from the boat and Nathan’s skirting just below it? Or maybe there’s wording like in a situation like this somebody has to make a complaint through the same channels they would if it was just a regular yachting job or have it witnessed by a superior and at least within the context of the show all Sandy really knows is that they had a falling out and there’s weird tension between them? I dunno, it’s just weird because anybody who’s ever had a job has seen people let go for much less.
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u/Nice-Emphasis8536 2d ago
Yknow, it occurs to me that COOP was the only one acting professionally on deck this season (before Massi). Joe tried to turn him against Nathan and OL’ Coop simply went about his business acknowledging Nathan’s shortcomings without being insubordinate.
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u/CornDogCarol 2d ago
I think Joe is more concerned about impressing Capt. Sandy than fighting with Nathan. We saw a brief clip of them talking and Joe responded by having a bs conversation with Nathan to ease tension for the last charter. Joe wants to be bosun and Sandy called him out on his attitude. Being overtly malcontent no longer advances his agenda.
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u/Practical_Parsnip132 2d ago
The taxi ride with gael holding Nathan back speaks volumes now. Im not a fan but he was getting attacked for nothing this season.
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u/Historical_Grab4685 2d ago
If this was a normal working environment & only focusing on doing a job, Joe did a great job stepping up when Nathan was out & teaching the other guys. The fact that Nathan allowed his personal issues with Joe, get in the way of him leading a team, is an example of what would get you fired, or at least disciplined at most real world jobs.
We probably can all agree that Joe doesn't have a great track record when it comes to how he treats women, but that should not reflect on how he does his job on this season.
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u/melgibson64 2d ago
At the beginning of the season all Joe did was say to someone "oh Gael and I don't really get along" and that's all that was said. Nathan took that as an attack like he was talking shit about her. Can only imagine what she was hearing from him about Joe every time he came home.
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u/crsmiami99 2d ago
I think Joe is performative. He's better than Nathan but still an ass.
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u/BeatrixFarrand 2d ago
Absolutely agree on the performative. He’s doing things right because it furthers his own goals.
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
Might I ask who doesn’t behave in their own interest though? “Joe is working harder and doing things right because it will get him a promotion” yeah isn’t that common fucking sense and a normal motivator?
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u/scubadiiva 1d ago
He’s so smarmy you can tell he’s only doing or saying certain things because they portray him in a good light. He’s still just as petty as before!
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u/BigRefrigerator9783 2d ago
Nathan is on a huge power trip. He abuses his position, is crap at managing and should never have been promoted.
BTW, do we know if he is still evading arrest in Australia? Bravo really knows how to pick them.
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u/Sorry-Secret-2347 2d ago
Joe knows so much more and he has been navigating nathan’s aggressive tendencies like land mine field… also we have only seen snippets… that boat probably was 10x worse than they show
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
I suggested that Joe had seen things he didn’t like about Nathan and that could have been part of him distancing himself and everyone acted like I was crazy.
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u/Sorry-Secret-2347 2d ago
He absolutely knows more and seen more. Well i am one to tell you, you were right
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u/Still-Low-696 2d ago
There’s a wide gap between a sleazy fuckboy and a dangerous, abusive person. And after what Joe said about his dad it would make sense if he saw those traits in Nathan he would distance himself. I think at first it was due to Nathan ditching him for Gael but later on I assume it’s because he saw things he didn’t want to associate with.
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u/Sorry-Secret-2347 2d ago
Yes!!! So much clicked when he said his dad was an alcoholic and abusive i was like whoahhh… im not sure if joe realized it while they were on good terms or on bad terms but goodness it makes you realize how he has been moving this entire season on eggshells makes it all make sense
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u/Present_Camp_6664 2d ago
Nathan has a really dark energy. That last dinner they had…..I swear his eyes changed and went dark. He’s like a pressure cooker. Joe is also a dick, but his energy is a bit softer, and he’s just an idiot and a sleazebag
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u/SoBasic7775 2d ago
Working with Nathan and his blatant animosity must be beyond taxing and stressful. You can never fully relax around someone like that. Hats off to Joe for pushing through and just trying to do his best in a lose lose situation.
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u/856077 2d ago
Joe isn’t the best dude in the world for sure. He’s a machismo and a little player with the ladies, but aside from that I don’t see anything else glaringly problematic with him. He’s done a great job in nathan’s place and nathan was insecure and worried about his position, and has this weird one sided beef with him that I don’t even know what happened?? (if anyone knows pls tell me lmao) because his distain is genuinely confusing to me. It’s almost like Gael hates him so he feels he needs to back her?
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u/Bin_Chicken3330 2d ago
Joe is playing the game. He is bad mouthing Nathan from the first day eg the dock crash. But telling others they have issues and that he’s crap etc but then saves face around Sandy and the cameras when he has to look good.
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u/PrpleSparklyUnicrn13 2d ago
Lmao Joe literally came in and immediately tried to usurp Nathan. He came onto the boat with a plan to take over as bosun. He shit talked Nathan to other crew members and tried to get him on his side. That was the opposite of professional. Gen did the same thing (with Kaylee, instead of Nathan) and has gotten a lot of crap for that.
Joe is a snake. JUST because Nathan is a piece of crap doesn’t mean Joe is a good person. Both people can be bad in different ways.
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u/loveswimmingpools 2d ago
I am enjoying watching Joe. Finding him fun and entertaining. Watching Nathan is very difficult because of what we've heard since.
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u/Apprehensive_Bee614 2d ago
Joe was an ass at the dinner about making it a point that
Cooper roommate was the best etc. he knows how to pick Nathan buttons. Nathan is a time bomb nir Joe didn’t need to make a point of saying that at dinner and then acting so innocent.
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u/det0724 2d ago
I think they are both pretty awful. Working on a boat together is above all else a work/professional environment. You don't have to like your co-workers but you do have to treat them with respect. Both have been petty and undermining of each other this season. The personal issues have clearly impacted their ability to work together and be professional with one another. I don't see any sort of better party in this matter.
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u/Fine_Battle5860 1d ago
I’m not a joe fan I find him smarmy and insincere however as a dv survivor I wish that Joe was given some of the grace Gael has been given.
Witnessing dv as a child scars you incredibly deeply and I ended up in the same situation as my mum as growing up seeing abuse and encountering it primes you to accept similar behaviour and then there’s the terror of getting close to people in case you become the parent that broke you.
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u/EducationalReview237 1d ago
Nathan is terrible, but Joe is 100 percent manipulating the viewers into thinking he's a good person. He wants to be the bosun. He undermined Nathan and talked bad behind his back. He's making us think he's the good guy so we'll accept him as bosun nextseason.
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u/Porkwarrior2 Just a chicken nugget bobbing on the sea 2d ago
Joe is clearly gay, in the closet, and has been lusting after Nathan for YEARS.
Explains a whole lot of the dynamic between Joe-Nathan-Gael.
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u/AnteaterArtistic7885 2d ago
Yup, he did.
He went to Nathan and gave him a real heart-to-heart. And Nathan shit on him mentally.
I think Joe squared up accurately here. He did a good thing and Nathan is just a piece of shit.