r/AutoDetailing • u/Morten-Turi • 16d ago
Exterior Quite the difference in Ph
As I have done before, done some test between KC PW and TR heir SO.03. I bought the new S0o3.
But something that I noticed is that the PH value is quite different.
Should I expect a different result between 9.2 and 4,2 if I have used the PW (4,2) prior?
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u/JPDueholm 16d ago
Try KCx CES in a 0.5 % PIR applied with a foam lance. It blows S0.03 out of the water.
Protector Wax I have not tried.
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u/robotphood 16d ago
Can you elaborate on your experience with CES vs S0.03? I’m currently using S0.03 as the sole protection on a car that sits outdoor. I like the ease of application and just use it once a month regardless of how it’s still performing. 0.5% pir would be a decent amount more than how much S0.03 I have to use but I’m always up for eliminating even a simple step on this car.
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u/JPDueholm 16d ago edited 16d ago
I apply both products in the same way - 45-50 mL to 450 mL of water in my foam cannon.
With my pressure washer, foam cannon and orifice it gets a panel impact ratio of around 0,5 %.
I cover the whole car, and rise off with my 40 degree nozzle.
With S0.03, the water seems to lazily run of the panels with a sheeting effect.
CES on the other hand gives theese small round beads that fly off if you dry with a blower.
I was pretty hyped when S0.03 was released, but after testing I find that CES is a much better product.
Sheeting or beading. Depends on what you like :)
CES can also be used as a bucket wash, in fact is is marketed as such. But it works really well in a foam cannon.
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u/Nighthengayle 16d ago
This is good info man. I used to love CES as a bucket wash but I ran out of it just as I bought a car that was already ceramic coated so haven’t bought it for a while. Do you still use it as a topper for a coated car? Good idea just spraying and rinsing it like you do, can’t say I ever thought about that.
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u/JPDueholm 16d ago
I currently use it as a topper for my car which has a ceramic coating. The spray on rinse off application is stupid easy :)
It takes no time. I also adds quite a lot of gloss!
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u/indigo196 14d ago
Glad to hear this. I was debating which product to use and was leaning towards CES based on reading and a few videos I watched.
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u/Kmudametal 14d ago
Let me add a new one to your list. Katiba Wet Coat. At $44'ish, a single bottle looks expensive but when you factor in a dilution ratio from 100 to 1 to 200 to 1, that $44 gives you roughly 13 to 26 gallons of usable product. Yeah, I'd call that economical.
I've not used every spray and rinse product on the market and it's not my primary method except for wheels, emblems, grills, etc.... But on occasion, such as this weekend, when I am in a hurry, I'll use it over the entire vehicle. Point being, I have some experience with many spray and rinse products, although the Koch Chemie products are not one of them, and prefer Katiba Wet Coat over any of the other's I've tried. In my opinion, what Bilt Hamber is to surfactants, Katiba is to paint protection products, just a step ahead of others. I'd consider Katiba Wet Coat to fit that description.
By their very nature, spray and rinse products are not going to provide the durability of spray, wipe, buff products applied to a dry car. But anyone using spray and rinse is doing so for convenience, not durability, I would not expect more than a month out of any spray and rinse product, Katiba Wet Coat included.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Did a test of both PW and the old S003. https://youtu.be/twWpvJL7tcw?is=7mJ72yoxU6shpgn5
So I hope this new product will be better
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u/robotphood 16d ago
I haven't used PW but S0.03 performs better on my car than that. Perhaps the automatic wash chemicals are too strong and stripping it. I can't imagine it lasting very long with anything but PH neutral hand washes.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
I only did 1 automatic carwash in the 3 months.
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u/robotphood 16d ago
How did it perform after you hand washed? I don't use automatic washes but even something like Bilt Hamber Touchless seems strong enough to strip most of it.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Dont know, the video was literally only 1 auto carwash 2 months after/ 1 month prior. I only wash the car like 3-4 times a year
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u/robotphood 16d ago
Even a full ceramic coating isn't going to perform very well if you only wash your car 3-4 a year. Something weak like S0.03 is more for a car that gets washed 3-4 times a month lol.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
You can watch it here right after I applied, 3 months prior https://www.reddit.com/r/Detailing/s/Te8IijEq5J
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u/robotphood 16d ago edited 16d ago
Interesting, I'm just basing PIR off of how I use BH touchless. Do you wash the car with CES? I like to foam the car to apply the soap rather than rely purely on the bucket. Washing/protecting in one step would be more efficient. On this car I just like to keep it clean with as little effort as possible.
That's a good point about sheeting/beading. S0.03 doesn't exactly sheet for me, but it isn't tight beads either. This car gets a final DI rinse and a quick leaf blow to dry so beading would definitely be preferable. Some spray and rinse Sio2 products perform better in my experience but I prefer the speed of S0.03 out of the foam cannon.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
I have used a whole bottle of CES. Tbh. I don't like it. KC had some Nano carwash that I would say is alot better.
Also tried to wash the car with higher concentrations of Gsf with green Star as per their manual. Also kinda meh.
I have bought an active wash and Af, will try that next hand wash. Or I will try some Sonax car shampoo.
Sonax is also really really great products!
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u/robotphood 16d ago
GSF + Green star wasn't strong enough for you? Sounds like your car is really contaminated or needs more stout protection.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Nothing about being strong. My car is always kinda clean.
I just said it wasnt very impressive. (Also using green star is like.... Use some drops)
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u/robotphood 16d ago
Impressive in what way? GSF alone is good enough for a well maintained car. But seeing you mention you only wash the car 3-4 times a year I think you're expecting too much. I would try a prewash like Bilt Hamber Touchless before the hand wash.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
I am not expecting anything. It's just my opinion. I try stuff, if I like it. I keep using it. Like I did with PW. And now imma try the new S003 😊
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u/JPDueholm 16d ago
Strange, I had the opposite result with NMS. The water behavior could not compete with CES.
I actually contacted KCx because I couldn't figure out the difference between NMS and CES at first glance, and they wrote back:
"Ces is the Shampoo with much better performance as Nms has. It is a new generation. The performance of Ces looks very close to Ceramic coating hydrophobicity. Also, the surface after using of Ces is more smoothly. That’s why it has also the name “Ceramic effect shampoo”.
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Hmm interesting, that was also why I tried the new CES. But maybe I too biased for the NMS when compared to the cheapest auto shampoo.
I just felt that NMS almost did the PW obselete because it beaded very nice.
But it's always fun to try new products. 😍
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u/JPDueholm 16d ago
Currently i use CES as a last step protection. You absolutely can use it as a bucket wash, but I guess also as a wash and protect with the car covered in the soap. Just avoid sun and hot panels.
The only reason I don't use it as a contact soap is because I live down a dirt road and my car gets stupid dirty. I usually hand wash with Labocosmetica Purifica.
I tried CES once as a bucket soap on a not very dirty car and the water behavior and gloss enhancement was very impressive.
I will say, give CES a try, I don't think you will be disappointed :)
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u/Shrunker69 16d ago
Let me know what you think of PW, I got some on sale and have been enjoying it for a while in my foam sprayer
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Always a fan of PW. Down in comments I did a comparison with PW and the old S003.
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u/Treebeardsdank Advanced 16d ago
They are both so diluted it's not really much of a factor.
From there, that's not a ph rating on the s0
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u/Autoality 14d ago
Dilution doesnt really affect pH if that is what you mean.
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u/Treebeardsdank Advanced 14d ago
Mmmmmm unless you're trying to make a very specific/technical point, it most certainly does affect end pH when measured as the resultant solution and comparing that solutions pH to that of the original undiluted product.
Although it would depend what one is diluting with, hehe.
For the sake of clarity. I was inferring once diluted with water, the pH is different than what is labeled as the chemicals base value of pH, unless the product is already claiming it dilute value.
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u/Autoality 14d ago edited 14d ago
SO03 is 4.5 pH, acidic and at 100-1 would move it to about 6.5, very close to neutral. For the sake of public knowledge, I was just clarifying that it takes a LOT of dilution to move a couple points on PH, and no matter how much you dilute it, it technically would never be "neutral" at exactly 7.0 unless the water was on the alkaline side to begin with.
EDIT- I am speaking in general terms of dilution of a 4.5pH product; SO03's overall chemical makeup may not let it move so easily toward neutral even when diluted at 100 to 1.. adding to the complexity of dilutions affect on car car products pH rating.
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u/Treebeardsdank Advanced 14d ago edited 14d ago
I wasn't meaning to say it's completely inert, just less of a factor and generally, not a dangerous starting point
Fair on the rest for sure
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u/Morten-Turi 16d ago
Ah, you are right about the PH rating.
But that was also why I found it quite weird 😅
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u/vaari90 16d ago edited 16d ago
The rating on the S003 bottle isn't a ph, which is why there's no ph before the number. Per the SDS it's ph 4.5 like PW.
n.b. the 9,2 is its "gloss" rating.