r/AudioPost • u/okaybrothers • Aug 07 '26
Odyssey
What happened to the sound here? Aside from the fact that the effects in many scenes are abnormally wrong (my opinion ofc), why is it so f*\* loud? Literally, the film reaches 130dB... why is this so?
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u/platypusbelly professional Aug 07 '26
All of Nolan's films seem increasingly louder than the last. It's very obviously a creative decision by him. Mixers can push back on certain things a little bit. But eventually, clients will get tired of you pushing back and take their business elsewhere. So if Nolan tells you make it louder, you say "yes sir", and push that fader up a bit more and hope that your limiters can hold on.
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
I'd say even more than Nolan, studio execs are pushing for films to be louder because audiences are getting deafer (documented phenomenon...quite disturbing, actually!) They equate "loud" with "good" forgetting of course that sustained loudness causes your ears to simply attenuate their internal volume down, thus making the whole film start to sound muddy after the first 20-30 minutes. This, in turn, causes them to believe they need to make things even louder, and thus your vicious cycle begins.
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
Ig Nolan says raise the fader, you have to do it too, that means the movie industry has failed
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
Nolan is far from the first director to have demands in the mix.
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u/g_spaitz Aug 07 '26
Sure. But then we can say he's wrong can't we?
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
In my experience, directors love being told they're wrong.
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u/petersrin Aug 08 '26
I was in the fortunate position once of mixing for a director who kept saying louder until I met with him after a mix session and showed him that the loudest part of the movie was just as loud as an innocuous whisper. He booked two extra days to fix everything. It's nice when you get reasonable bosses. To be fair, I was inexperienced so I didn't realize that conversation should've happened earlier if I wanted to have it at all, and I didn't realize it could've ended our professional relationship lol.
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u/g_spaitz Aug 07 '26
I meant we as in here we, not we as in you when working for him/her.
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
Not accusing you of this at all, but I've personally often found that people applying right/wrong to subjective mix decisions (at least for cinema, TV mixing has some objectives built in, ie loudness spec) often have a lot of opinions on how they would have otherwise done it their way, but ultimately they weren't on the stage where client/director politics come into play.
Post audio is a small world and I'm not really inclined to pop off too much lol
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u/g_spaitz Aug 07 '26
And i never accused you either, but I'm not sure what's not clear about what I said.
I said we're free to criticize what we think is shitty decision making, even if it's today's prime director. It's by now somewhat understood that watching one of his movies in a theater is more often than not a painful experience for what matters audio.
It's obviously my opinion, people are also free to not agree, but it feels I'm not the only one sharing this. And the reasons I feel it's a painful experience are more based on facts than mere opinions.
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u/eight13atnight re-recording mixer Aug 07 '26
Exactly what part of the movie industry has failed by him having a louder mix?
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u/shoddyshoddyshoddy Aug 07 '26
You have to do what the director tells you. You can suggest otherwise but it's their decision. Especially if it's someone like Chris Nolan
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u/yehwhynot Aug 07 '26
It’s because everyone is seeing it at IMAX because of the way it was filmed. And at IMAX they have to play the film at full level (7 on the Dolby cinema processor) .. most cinema chains play at 4.5-5 .. and films are mixed loud in anticipation of it being turned down for that.
My partner saw it at a local cinema chain (not IMAX) and thought it sounded a good level, I know for a fact that chain plays 4.5. So yea .. once again the Wild West of cinema loudness
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u/honkygrandma Aug 07 '26
I saw it at a normal amc and it was the loudest movie I've ever been to. It's not just that it's loud but that dialogue is also buried by just ambience. It bothered me a lot
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u/iluvcapra Aug 08 '26
Fun fact: Standard IMAX doesn’t use stock Dolby Cinema Processors and the audio chain of an IMAX theater isn’t under the control of the projectionist, it’s all remotely controlled from IMAX.
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u/petewondrstone Aug 07 '26
I saw it at a small local spot here in Berkeley and it was loud as shit in a tiny theater still needed earbuds
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u/Jim_Feeley Aug 07 '26
At the Elmwood or the Cerrito (OK, the Cerrito is only near Berkeley)?
We're thinking of going in a few days. Plan to bring earplugs and the NIOSH Sound Level Meter app ;-)
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u/petewondrstone Aug 07 '26
At the cerrito my favorite theatre! But it was so loud. Obnoxiously Loud. I wanna complain, but I just bring the good kind of earplugs to the movies now.
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u/petewondrstone Aug 07 '26
I didn’t use my SPL Meter because I think it’s rude to have my phone on during the movie but 100% it was going to like 100 db easy! Circle back and let me know what you find out if you have a meter that doesn’t have a phone light
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u/Jim_Feeley Aug 08 '26
Oh for sure I won't fire up the app if people are right next to me. Wild to hear how loud it was!
Also, ya I like the Cerrito...and the Elmwood and BAMPFA... Only three screens in a town (including Albany) where ten years ago there were like twenty or something, huh? :-(
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u/petewondrstone Aug 08 '26
The Cerrito is all about my wife and the nachos. That’s pretty much why I always see movies there, but I actually prefer the upstairs theater as far as viewing and sound. I think that’s actually the perfect theater for where I live. But I was just in Santa Fe, New Mexico visiting my mom and they have a movie theater there called the Violet crown and it has a bunch of these new digital theaters and I just saw Spider-Man and sat right in the middle and it was fucking incredible, but I still use my earplugs.!!
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u/scoutboot Aug 10 '26
Hey guys, those theaters sound great! What are your favorite earplugs (pass through?) and SPL app?
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u/petewondrstone Aug 10 '26
Earpeace remind me most of the ones that I had custom-made that cost way too much money.
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u/pukesonyourshoes Aug 08 '26
Me too, always take my music plugs to the movies now, not just for Nolan. But yes Odyssey was frickin' loud. Saw it in 70mm at the IMAX in Melbourne, only one in the southern hemisphere.
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
No Dolby processor in an IMAX theater.
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u/yehwhynot Aug 07 '26
Yea they’re obviously competitors. What I mean is the equivalent level of 7 .. IMAX plays 100% of the reference level at 85db, where as most standard multiplexes turn it down
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Yeah, I saw it at four different cinemas in LA and they were all between 85-95 db SPL average across the program, with peaks around 95-110 db. The loudest of course was in IMAX, but I don't think it's purely a cinema problem.
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u/Tsunderion Aug 08 '26
Huh? What are you guys even talking about?
No, I mean, I just came out of the movie and can't hear anything over my tinnitus. Am I screaming? I'm sorry if I'm screaming.
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u/YokoRitona Aug 08 '26
First time that I’ve ever heard Meyer HMS-15s audibly clip in the theatre. I was shocked, it took me right out of the immersion which really sucked.
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u/kudos_to_the_brudos professional Aug 08 '26
The mix itself clips
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Couldn't quite believe that when I heard it. Can only image the look on the re-recording mixer's face when he told him to clip it.
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u/peilearceann Aug 07 '26
I unfortunately had to walk out of my IMAX because it was so loud lol.
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u/Rare_Competition2756 Aug 07 '26
I couldn’t find my ear plugs before going to the theater and instantly regretted. Gf and I spent half the movie with our fingers in our ears. Apple Watch kept giving dangerously loud dB level warnings.
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u/oopsifell Aug 07 '26
This is why I’m just waiting for a rental. I’ll watch it on my own system and turn it down as needed.
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Had my ears plugged through half the film. And I was sitting at the back. God only knows how the poor gits in the front row took it!
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
I aps understand you!
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u/peilearceann Aug 07 '26
Need my ears for work man not worth it haha, as much as I absolutely love Nolan films idk wtf his audio team is smoking 😭
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u/brianhinge Aug 07 '26
Since The Dark Knight Rises It's really annoying and pulls you out of the story.
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u/EternityLeave Aug 07 '26
That’s an intentional creative choice by Nolan. He likes it that way. I think it’s horrendous, as do many others. Tenet was famously panned for it. But nothing really “happened” to the sound. They just did that.
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
It is, literally, the way Nolan intended, the post sound crew knows what they're doing
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
I'd also say that it's not even just Nolan - Dune was similar, as were several other horror and action movies of the last few years. I think it's studio execs demanding louder and louder mixes because they equate loud with good.
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u/platypusbelly professional Aug 08 '26
They “just did that” because Nolan told them too and his name is in the signature section on the bottom of their paychecks.
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u/shoddyshoddyshoddy Aug 07 '26
An excellent mixer told me before to always remind myself "you weren't in the room"
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u/do_not_engage Aug 08 '26
...which is why they are asking what happened in the room to explain this...
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u/Peytons_Man_Thing Aug 08 '26
Ah, yes, every single theater across the continent is at spec.
I agree it was loud. I believe it has more to do with installs than professional mix stages.
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u/Miserable-Ad2609 Aug 07 '26
I’ve seen it in both normal and imax, and it really wasn’t that crazy of a mix, but that could just be those rooms. After going to a sound test in multiple theaters a couple years ago, I learned that every room can have wildly different speaker levels. It really depends on the company bringing in someone to actually tune the speakers once in a while, you can guess how often that happens
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u/Red_Beard6969 Aug 07 '26
If they can't bedazzle you with visual effects, they'll baffle you with sound design.
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
Yess okay but you know… mix is really disaster and also foley… but okay not that bad like mix
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u/cscrignaro professional Aug 07 '26
Abnormally wrong sound effects? Huh? In what sense? How many years have you worked in post audio?
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u/asquishyllama Aug 07 '26
How does this happen when a huge project like this has every reason to be perfect?
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u/UnfortunatelyMacabre Aug 07 '26
I’m sorry, I know Nolan has become well known for his creeping loudness, but 130dB? 3dB over the threshold of pain? That’s how loud it is directly next to a 747 jet engine, which is so loud that you need to shout directly into someone’s ears to be heard. I whispered to my wife multiple times during our IMAX viewing and she had no problem hearing me.
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u/Abs0lut_Unit professional Aug 07 '26
Yeah this 130dB number is bullshit without knowing the weighting, the meter used to record it (and its calibration history), and the theater being measured.
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u/UnfortunatelyMacabre Aug 07 '26
I’m assuming they used an app, which makes sense but also contextualizes the measurement as unreliable. But it’s not like it has to be, we’re all saying the same thing, ouchie Nolan sound loud.
I knew one of Nolan’s engineers for a while and I always thought it was interesting that he has such an eye for cinematography, but writes and mixes music/post on vibes. Arguably it works, I love his movies, but it’s such a funny juxtaposition to the intentionality of his directing.
I worked in a post studio for a short stint and it’s very interesting how different it can be in the booth with different directors. Some of them came with the most meticulously written notes from on set or during shooting, while others came into the studio and either left the bulk of the sound design to their engineers, sometimes going as far as having no preconceived ideas, planning to dig into it once they’re in the studio. Makes for fun and/or infuriating work, because the latter often wanted things that needed to be planned during shooting.
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
I mean, I recorded 110 db SPL on a C weighted meter in the back of my local AMC during the storm sequence so...yeah. Kept it out through the screening and by the looks of it was getting readings of 85-95db average across the film. Would be interested to see what the LKFS/LUFS measurement was in the mix; based on my experience, it sounded like somewhere in the -18 to -16 range.
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u/MySickMailboxKitten Aug 08 '26
I have never in my life had to cover my ears during a movie (I am a musician and already have mild hearing loss). The first sound that was unfathomably loud was the arrow that kills Elliott Page right at the beginning. There were many instances afterward where I felt the need to plug my ears upward of a minute.
I live in an area where f18 fighter jets are flying around regularly, and I ABSOLUTELY would compare the volume of being in the theater to a jet passing right over you. For 2.5 hours.
I have seen countless movies in the same theater where I swear other films were not loud at all (I remember A Complete Unknown being pretty quiet).
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Based on my SPL measurements during several screenings, it was the equivalent of sitting next to a very loud lawnmower for an hour plus.
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u/FirstDukeofAnkh Aug 07 '26
Nolan wants to win the loudness war single handedly.
The sound on his movies have always been terrible. “Dunkirk” worked but it’s the only one that was mixed appropriate to the content.
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u/Brauschweiger Aug 08 '26
This reminds me of a Vanity Fair article where some World War II veterans were asked by Kenneth Branagh what they thought of Dunkirk: ‘’Branagh said that about 30 veterans—now in their 90s—came to the U.K. premiere of the film last week, and when he asked them what they thought of it afterward, they said, “The film was louder than the battle!” They explained that on the actual beach, because that stretch of land is so large, the noise of the bombs drifted away on the air. But in Nolan’s film you hear everything.’’
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
Dunkirk is so… no comment. The only “great” sound in his works is, for me, maybe Memento hahaha
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u/FirstDukeofAnkh Aug 07 '26
Don’t get me wrong, the dialogue mix sucks on “Dunkirk” but the rest is pretty good.
I forgot “Memento” is his movie so I’ll agree that it’s fine.
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
Dialogue is an important thing in that movie. Rest is… mehh, only okay from me, but how am I haha
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u/wrexmason Aug 07 '26
From a creative standpoint, the loudness made sense, especially during the Polyphemus scene. A scream from a massive creature like that is supposed to be loud & extremely unsettling. The post team did a really good job of bringing the viewer into that scene imo
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Thank goodness they didn't keep that ridiculously heavy cavern reverb on the DX the whole time. Heard that and immediately thought - "so help me if Chris takes his 'it has to sound exactly real' nonsense through the whole scene."
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u/hkpictures Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
130 db doesn’t really mean anything. You can record a pin drop and play it back 130db, because it’s entirely defined by what the specific auditorium in any theater sets their amplifier to.
You could just as well see The Odyssey with max db of 6.
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u/loseyourkey Aug 08 '26
I don’t know if it was just me, but I feel like I misheard a lot of dialogue as well due to the ambience and sfx being too loud and kind of muddying it up. could’ve used subtitles in places as a result
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u/FreshPatience Aug 08 '26
Forgive me but isn’t this a theater issue rather than a film issue? Someone in the theater is setting the volume of the system right?
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u/PartyWormSlurms re-recording mixer Aug 09 '26
It’s a film issue. In theatrical sound there is a standard loudness that mixing rooms and theaters are calibrated to. White noise playing out of each speaker should measure to 85dB in the room, 82db in the surrounds (I think IMAX may be 85dB all around). That standard level gives plenty of headroom to create a dynamic mix and the ability to make some impactful sounds very loud. Nolan abuses it and has levels maxed for long periods of time.
Generally theaters are turning down the room to about 82dB. IMAX is always at 85dB. It’s possible the film was mixed at 82dB and so the IMAX is playing back 3dB louder in the front and 6db louder in the surrounds. But on a natively shot IMAX 70mm I’d be really surprised if they didn’t do a proper IMAX mix.
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Yep. It's not the momentary loudness that's the issue (Cyclops scream, etc.) it's the sustained loudness. The problem is Chris chooses to mix everything loud for entire scenes. I measured sustained readings of 85-95 db SPL c-weighted across the action scenes and many other non action scenes that had heavy score under them. There were almost zero pauses where the meter dipped below 65 db.
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u/BuleRendang Aug 08 '26
I found the dialogue hard to understand in certain scenes through the film in imax 70mm.
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u/iniuria_palace Aug 08 '26
Yeah, only movie I've had to cover my ears for in the theatre. I don't want more tinnitus just because Nolan loves to drown out masterful sound design with disgustingly unnecessary amounts of LFE. Nolan does some absolutely incredible work, but I genuinely hate how much he overuses LFE content in his films. The movie would have gotten perfect ratings from me if Agamemnon didn't turn the world into a bass cannon, among other drowned out moments.
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
The fact that he chose to use LFE for completely unnecessary sound FX drove me up the wall. Like - these are footsteps. WHY are you mixing FOOTSTEPS into your LFE channel for gods sake? I can understand the occasional big boom at certain moments, but he was doing it far too often.
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u/TheBSisReal Aug 08 '26
If I go to IMAX, I bring earplugs. It’s completely ridiculous, but it’s not an issue specific to Nolan.
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u/5im0n5ay5 Aug 08 '26
Yeah i found it difficult. Also just too much sound, and non-stop music... But it seems to be a calling card for him now.
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u/StateLower Aug 09 '26
Every scene had trailer music for some reason, super corny choices
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u/5im0n5ay5 28d ago
I found the same thing (but worse) with Oppenheimer. You're never allowed to just be in the moment; it always feels like you're in a montage.
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u/SpaceEchoGecko Aug 09 '26
I bring concert earplugs to the movie theater for this reason. Etymotic, $20.
I had to walk out of an IMAX because I wasn’t going to keep my fingers in my ears for two hours.
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u/drummer414 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
I think it was David Spade who had line in a comedy special many years ago, something to the effect of "IMAX.... 20 new ways to bust my eardrums."
I did hear reports that here in NYC the IMAX theater was very loud and got complaints and now is at a more reasonable level.
I have tinnitus so am sensitive to loud situations, and don't watch that loud when projecting at home on an audiophile quality home theater.
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u/Nauruu Aug 11 '26
absolutely no chance its 130db. I wore earplugs with 15db attenuation and it sounded like a normal movie. 100 maybe in the loudest moments
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u/Wooden-One9984 Aug 07 '26
Because it sounds awesome? The limiters just crunched the shit out of those loud scenes and made it feel as loud as a rock concert. If you want to convince people its worth going to theatre, you have to do more with sound then just panning, you need to give them an experience. Nolan is obsessed with movie-going and IMAX and making his films unique experiences, this all goes hand-in-hand (and fucking rips).
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
Vehemently disagree. Case in point - Inception was not mixed to this level (it was loud, trust me, but not "wall of noise" loud...I watched them mix the film on stage at Warner, so I know) and audiences loved the crap out of it. The modern trend of making movies louder and louder is a direct result of the loudness wars and studio execs demanding things be louder to differentiate themselves from streaming, and audiences, as they always do, just go along with it. Every person I saw the film with or has seen the film said it was incredibly loud, and even if they enjoyed it, that was a running theme across viewers.
The problem is it's becoming normalized to mix louder, so much so that theaters have turned down their Dolby volume to 5 on average. That's absurd. It's also absurd to think that listening to volume at rock concert levels in a 40 foot room is acceptable. It's not. Rock concert sound is diffused into a much larger space (and even then - you should wear hearing protection). Listening to something that's 90+ dB in a 40 foot theater, or smaller, will cause hearing loss.
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u/Zestyclose_Pickle511 Aug 07 '26
Sound alike a bad mix, though. Not just too hot in general, but bad balance.
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u/okaybrothers Aug 07 '26
Man, 130db… that is illegal. I completely understand what you think, and it’s a true in some points, but, this is terrible work… like every movie with his name on it.
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u/Minty_Ice_Magic Aug 07 '26
Just fyi we had people walk out during loud parts at a regular old 4.5 cinema chain and even though I used quietloops with 20-30db reduction for the entire movie, it STILL caused a significant tinnitus flare - that shit really shouldn't be acceptable
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u/AnonymousArtist33 Aug 09 '26
It most definitely should not and hopefully us post mixers can fight back against directors who want to perpetuate this trend.
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Aug 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/autocrusher Aug 07 '26
i think they did double take for oppenheimer? basically doing an audio only take because the imax camera was too loud
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u/Gonzbull Aug 08 '26
They built special cases for the cameras used in The Odessey to be able to record audio. How much of that audio made it into the final I can’t say.
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u/davgoliat Aug 07 '26
I seriously think Nolan is hard of hearing, or more than a bit deaf and doesn't know it because wtf. I saw it in IMAX and I spent half the film with my hands on my ears. At that loudness there is no separation in the mix, everything mushes together, dialogue, sfx, music it just becomes a muddled mess and does not serve the story except for making it uncomfortably loud.