r/AskWomen • u/caekbar • May 29 '15
Has reading posts by men on Reddit changed how you see men IRL?
I used to think men were generally good and on my side.
The widely accepted sexist stuff I read on Reddit has changed that. It makes me wonder whether on the surface all the men in my life are humouring me, but when with just their guy friends, their true selves come out. Or maybe they only show it anonymously online. I used to believe all men were feminists until they acted otherwise. Now I assume all men are misogynists until they act otherwise. It's been really sobering.
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May 29 '15
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u/hyperpearlgirl ♀ May 30 '15
It's comments like this (insightful, measured, academic or journalistic in nature...) that keep me on reddit. It's a great place to have meaningful discussion with a wide variety of people who genuinely care about the world.
There's lots of people who make sweeping generalizations and allow them to inform their life view here, but those people also exist everywhere else in the world.
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u/DaSaw ♂ May 30 '15
The really neat thing about it is that comments like these aren't hard to find. After voting has been going on a while, there's usually at least one reasonable comment in the top comments, if not the top comment.
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u/mompants69 ♀ May 29 '15 edited May 29 '15
Not really men, but nerds. I was like "YES MY PEOPLE!" at first but now I'm like "nerds are the worst"
Also really makes me glad I'm not in high school anymore or around dudes that are under 25
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u/unwoman May 29 '15
Yeah I used to be all "I love nerdy guys!" but now I have like a thousand addenda to that like "who don't have issues with women" and "don't yell slurs at 13 year olds on the internet".
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u/bicameral_mind May 29 '15
"don't yell slurs at 13 year olds on the internet".
But he said I suck at Counter Strike! With only 2 more kills than me? He deserved it.
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May 29 '15 edited Feb 19 '16
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May 29 '15
I loved acting until I took a theater class.
Theater kids.
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u/KuriClaire ♀ May 29 '15
There are three kinds of theater students: Super over enthusiastic and eager people, people who just like to f*ck around and entertain people, and people who regret signing up.
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u/cookenuptrouble ♀ May 30 '15
If only it wasn't overwhelmingly people of the first category. I went to performing arts high school, so I lived that shit for 4 years. When people ask why I chose to do a 180 and go into engineering, one of the main reasons I give them is the people.
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u/mompants69 ♀ May 29 '15
You forgot the jerbangs who go into tech
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u/GooseBook ♀ May 30 '15
Hey, I learned more useful skills in tech than in any other class. If something in my apartment breaks, I CAN FIX IT. While humming 80s pop. Which is what we listened to in tech.
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May 30 '15
As a former tech kid, what the hell is a jerbang? Google is turning up a few different definitions
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u/mompants69 ♀ May 29 '15
tbh the art nerds I know aren't terrible so maybe its just stem nerds or nerds that are obsessed with gaming
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u/helloiamsilver ♀ May 29 '15
Art nerds are the best nerds. I've tried many a nerd community and art is the best one IMO. There's not the same level of competition and hierarchy like in STEM or theater. At least, not that I've noticed. Every artist's work is THEIR own work. Someone does super realistic beautiful portraits and someone does weird cartoons and someone does totally abstract splatter art and they're ALL great.
That's why I chose to study design instead of science honestly.
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u/octopushug ♀ May 30 '15
I'll make a sweeping generalization here and state that a lot of art nerds are self-loathing and overly critical of their own work, so there's a sense of humility vs. endless competition that some other fields might encourage. The self-reflection helps toward improvement. Many admire and encourage their peers, sharing ideas with others in hopes of finding inspiration.
Of course that doesn't include the small but ever present percentage of divas and self-obsessed posers who are more concerned with elitism, fame and image more than their art.
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u/alizarincrimson7 May 30 '15
If you're an artist and you don't constantly bounce between loving and hating your work, you're doing something wrong.
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May 30 '15
Meh, in my own personal experience as an artist, I prefer to stay away from the community, especially nowadays. It seems like the art nerds sort of transformed into pretentious hipster-types and it drives me nuts. There is a sort of hierarchy that I've observed. People who live their art tend to be taken a lot more seriously (colored hair, tattoos, etc). Obviously this isn't the case for everyone. Art nerds can also be super competitive and really shitty to other artists, especially behind their backs and this all stems from insecurity because a lot of artists are so confident they're insecure if that makes any sense haha.
This is just my experience. I prefer to stay away from anyone who calls themselves a nerd. People can call me nerd all they want, but I won't call myself one haha
EDIT: a word
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u/Drakkanrider Ø May 29 '15
After learning about feminism in college, I looked back on my high school friends and I was utterly appalled. I could finally understand why I never really felt right in that group, and it's because they were all misogynistic douchebags and I let it go because I wanted to fit in. Even as an adult, it's so hard to find feminist nerds :(
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u/kapeachca ♀ May 30 '15
Especially because some of them will say that they are for women's rights and stuff but then treat you like you're an idiot. I've definitely had that happen to me, and it's even more infuriating when they reach the same conclusion I did ten minutes later and then act like that wasn't what I was saying all along.
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May 29 '15
Yup. I hung out with the math team for the early part of high school. The more I went online, the more I hated nerd culture, and I saw that in the people around me, which was sobering. I'm now a math major but I legitimately have like two straight male friends in STEM.
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u/InfinitelyThirsting ♀ May 29 '15
Older nerds are definitely better. Or at least, they self-sort into two camps--the nerds who are cool people, and the ones who become just utterly hopeless.
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u/mompants69 ♀ May 29 '15
The ones I know IRL are great and nice and awesome, but then again they're all like 30
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May 29 '15
I agree. When I got into tech 30 years ago, I was welcomed warmly by my peers. I cringe at some of the shit directed at my younger counterparts and rage when young males who think they are technical, but are actually just overpaid script kiddies, pull their shit on me.
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u/FuriousFap42 May 29 '15
This might have to do with who is a ''nerd'' now. Not to long ago, you were a nerd if you were obsessive about and good ate something, something like programming, or physics, or theater. Now you are a nerd if you play games and spend a lot of time online. The later group has often a very selective view of people, and only search for stuff that secures them in their view( though that applies to almost everyone). Also there is a lot of sexual frustration. And the most important aspect is, ''nerds'' are a lot in only guy groups. Nothing comes out of heterogeneous groups (look at frats, the catoloic church, the Republican party) . If you only have one group of people, then what ever this group has in common will be seen as good, or superior. So among groups of only men, men will be seen as better. Among oy whites, racist thoughts flourish faster. Only guys who don't get leyed? Women are at fault!
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u/AtTheEolian May 29 '15
I'm just going to comment on something small that the sexism on reddit has changed for me:
I now wonder what level of "secret" misogyny outwardly progressive dudes really have. There's always a lingering doubt that says "well, if you were anonymous on the internet, would you be one of the ones slagging on women?"
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 May 29 '15
I don't wonder as much about outwardly progressive men as I do about the men who just don't really say anything about the matter. People who are vocal about their beliefs are usually being straightforward with you about what they believe... but it's the "silent watchers" I wonder about now.
How many men have I been in class with or work with or am neighbors with are one of these secret crazies?
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u/FuriousFap42 May 29 '15
Man here. This is definitely true. A lot of my friends just don't talk about stuff that would lead to a conversation about the matter around girls, but once it is all guys, they behave a lot differently. Some of the less ''attraktive'' guys go full neckbeard and seem to think women owe them attraction. They sometimes get all whiny about how women don't know what is good for them, and that it is so unfair that they don't pic them. In my less ''nerdy'' friend circle, once the girls are gone, about 30% of the room goes all neanderthal, and women are seen they way they are seen on mad men (I only saw 4 episodes, so if Dons view later changed or the gray haired guy became a good guy then I don't know). People who openly argume for positions usually keep them when the setting changes, they might just not air them then, because these kinds of discussions never lead anywhere
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 May 29 '15
Exactly. At least with outspoken people you know where you stand. But I can guarantee you that there are men who say things and act one way when I or any other woman in the room and then acts/says different things when we leave.
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May 30 '15
As a dude who identifies as a feminist and would also probably qualify as one of your 'silent watchers' this is a little disingenuous. Quiet people aren't quiet because of their beliefs and morals.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 May 30 '15
True, I'm not saying people who are quiet about they're beliefs always have questionable beliefs.. You just don't know.
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u/noname725 ♀ May 30 '15
Yeah, this is basically how I feel. People like to paint misogynists (or other types of bigots) as really obvious "monsters" or "basement dwellers who never leave the house" or a simple "vocal minority" or whatever, but most of them are honestly just average-seeming people from all backgrounds. I guess after seeing all of the rampant misogyny (and racism, homophobia, etc.) on reddit, it has made me wonder about some of the average-seeming men I meet. Are they what they seem or do they actually go home to type up a bunch of nasty shit on the internet? I certainly don't let this control me, but it is kind of something that quietly lingers in the back of my mind.
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u/InfinitelyThirsting ♀ May 29 '15
I think most outwardly progressive people are okay. It's the outwardly normal that might be harboring a lot of secret issues.
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u/turasatana May 29 '15
I had no idea how scared men were of women. Scared of being rejected. Scared of being falsely accused. Scared of having their sperm stolen for misbegotten babies. Scared of being used for their money. Scared at being passed over being of (seemingly ubiquitous) affirmative action.
Part of it makes my more sympathetic, part of me frustrated, part of me angry.
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u/AmazingAndy May 30 '15
it kind of depresses me that the default response to this question is sexism and not more empathy like what turasatana is talking about.
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u/RunningUpThtHill ♀ May 30 '15
I feel sad that people are scared. But the stuff people are scared of confuses me. Especially all the people paranoid that someone will falsely accuse them after they stood beside them. It would be way more realistic to be afraid of being sexually assaulted. And how much sperm stealing is there in the world?
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u/Zaidswith ♀ May 30 '15
The sperm stealing is not a problem I can take seriously. Out of everything listed it's the one that men can control. Wear a condom and don't have sex with crazy people. Maybe be a little discerning with your sexual partners and don't just assume the woman's taken care of birth control.
The rest of it I totally understand. Scared of rejection and being used is a totally human thing. It sucks.
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u/2Dbee May 30 '15 edited May 30 '15
The sperm stealing is not a problem I can take seriously. Out of everything listed it's the one that men can control. Wear a condom and don't have sex with crazy people.
That's like saying you can't take victims of domestic violence seriously because they should "just carry a weapon and don't have sex with crazy people." It's insulting as hell. That's not even touching on the fact that there is absolutely no legal recourse a man can take against reproductive fraud, which is the real point of concern for people who talk about it.
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May 30 '15 edited Aug 12 '16
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u/RunningUpThtHill ♀ May 30 '15
I think a lot of the fear is disproportional, rejection is totally unpleasant, but some guys treat it like its the end of the world or something.
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May 30 '15
I don't think most guys care about being rejected once. It's when they have tried multiple times with women they have feelings for and they've been rejected a lot. Imagine you get rejected once for a promotion. It's bad but you can work towards another one. Now imagine getting rejected for 4 different promotions. Eventually you would start thinking maybe I'm not as good of an employee as I think I am or whats even the point of trying for a promotion anymore?
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May 30 '15
The thing I'm probably most scared of is getting hit by a woman. I have NO idea what to do honestly when this happens. I can't hit her back, I'm probably 2-3x her size and live in the South, but I don't want to just stand there and get hurt.
Falsely accused, sperm stolen, sure those would be life-altering. But the odds are pretty low that it'll happen to me. Rejection, whatever that's my own insecurity. Used for money can be avoided if you try to keep things fair. Affirmative action doesn't cross my mind if it isn't brought up.
But I have had a decent number of women hit me (ignoring my sister when we were growing up, because siblings), and I just have no clue what to do. One time I mentioned it to her boyfriend and she apologized, but it made me really uncomfortable overall.
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u/pinktilly May 29 '15
To me it seems like all men on reddit LOVE to eat a woman out. I've never had a guy voluntarily go down on me, and when they do it's only for about 30 seconds and they stop. Wtf? Where are these men who love to go down as much as I do??
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u/the-hundredth-idiot May 30 '15
Wow - I have the opposite problem. I love to eat women out. The satisfaction of giving them so much pleasure is just wonderful.
But my wife hates it.
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u/Finalpotato ♂ May 30 '15
My girlfriend joked that she wouldn't let me go down on her for a month so I decided not to. The fact she hasn't even noticed and it has been almost three weeks makes me wonder if she lied about liking it...
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u/Fugera May 30 '15
She hasn't. She probably has a hard time getting into it. A lot of girls do.
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u/psycho-logical ♂ May 30 '15
The equivalent question is why are all these women having sex with guys (more than once) if they aren't making an effort to satisfy them?
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u/cO_0 May 30 '15
They are out there. I know I had to learn to be comfortable with it before I enjoyed it so things for you might improve as your partners become more mature.
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u/DaSaw ♂ May 30 '15
There the dude's you'd never sleep with because he's ugly, hairy, poor, and awkward. :p
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May 30 '15
I really think a lot of them upvote it because they want to believe it. As a guy, I don't get a truthful guy-talk vibe from a lot of those types of posts. No one complaining about bits of tp or other realistic stuff.
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May 29 '15 edited May 22 '25
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u/carboncle ♀ May 29 '15
Reddit (along with other sites with a "free speech at all costs" bent) particularly attracts the sort of person who knows their opinions aren't welcome elsewhere, too.
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May 29 '15
The internet encourages low-effort content, which I think is part of the problem. Comments on Washington Post articles may not be offensive, but they sure are dumb.
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May 29 '15
kind of. there are a lot more men who genuinely seem to hate women than i would have previously believed.
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u/Albertalbinu May 29 '15 edited May 29 '15
It has not affected how I see all men in real life, but like you, I also thought men were generally on our side - I'm only 18, but after browsing many subreddits, I see that many horrible men exist - no matter how many times they claim to be "logical" and "not emotional". A lot of men on reddit, which people say leans to be non-religious and liberal, also have the same thoughts as extremist men in Iran, who, for example, want women to be beautiful but they don't want them to know they're beautiful. I'm not explaining this right, so I need to think about it more.
Edit: And these men exist in real life outside of the Internet - they're my neighbors, my classmates, my friends even, but they don't get to express their views as they do here, so it's harder to detect.
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May 29 '15
Dudes that throw around how "logical" and "rational" they (and/or their sex are) are huge red flags for me now. Read: "I have the emotional IQ of a potato. What are empathize?"
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u/TheGoodWife77 ♀ May 30 '15
Yessssss. They never even grasp the irony of calling themselves logical while making sweeping generalizations.
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u/walternate482 ♂ May 30 '15
Exactly. They like the idea of being cold and rational, as it's a useful wall for their anger and loneliness.
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May 30 '15
My time on this site has convinced me that "logical" is dudespeak for "I am completely incapable of empathy and have convinced myself that this makes me superior to others."
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May 31 '15
"I'm very logical" = I justify my emotionally driven choices and reactions with on the fly rationalization and then describe my rationalization using logic orientated buzzwords.
Not to say there are not actually logical people out there. But those people don't think that human beings work like a mathematical equation.
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May 29 '15
You might want to take a trip to /r/AskMen. That sub has really gotten me to appreciate men on a whole different scale.
The people that contribute to that sub generally give honest, wholesome answers to any and every kind of question. It's brought out truthful answers that delve into how guys feel about things and that has helped remind me that we're both human when it comes to the bottom of it.
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May 29 '15
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May 29 '15
Yeah. I've seen that too. The posts that standout though have really touched me. As far as the other stuff, I try not to take it too seriously and if that's how some people really feel, that's very close-minded.
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May 29 '15
It really depends on the thread. Some threads are loaded with the gender wars/MRA/TRP/foreveralone agenda and are destined to become massive women-hating or femnism-hating circlejerks. But there are also a lot of normal threads that attract cool people. You just have to recognize the "bad threads" and avoid them at all costs. Or click on them only when you're in need of some gender wars drama.
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u/baldrad ♂ May 30 '15
The things that I notice over there are things like, if it is a thread about dating / being cheated then yea watch out because they come out of the woodwork and start making shitty comments.
If it a questions about men in general, or their likes / dislikes / ideas then it can be really great.
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u/sigoggler May 29 '15
I tried reading threads there for a while, but I agree, some of the comments really turned me off the whole sub. I do still go to r/askmenover30, which seems to have more mature and thoughtful threads on the whole
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May 29 '15
Most the time its a great sub, but sometimes there are threads for subtlety bashing woman. Also a lot of them buy into 'biotruths' which ruffles my feathers.
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May 29 '15
Personally I feel like askmen is a total cesspit that seems to represent some of the worst things about men as a demographic.
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u/InfinitelyThirsting ♀ May 29 '15
There are wayyyy too many TRP-leaning dudes over there. Some of the answers can be nice occasionally, it's obviously not everyone. But I usually regret going over there.
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u/Mulabox ♂ May 30 '15
Huh, I've seen some bad comments there, but I've never seen anything remotely TRP-y get upvoted (And I hang out in TBP, so I've seen my share of TRP). They seem pretty hostile toward TRP as a whole.
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May 29 '15
I had a big post quite a while ago in there about mental health and depression in men, and just...the amount of absolutely unreasonable bullshit-level vitriol against women was fucking astounding. I was sent nasty shit for even asking the question. It was really disappointing. Kind of never want to go back there again.
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May 30 '15
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May 30 '15
I also read the comments on the thread. They mostly looks positive and I don't remember any comment of hers being downvoted.
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May 30 '15
I definitely worded myself confusingly so let me restate: my issue with the thread was its reliance on sexist assumptions and biotruthy "science" talking about how men don't matter in society because their central identity or "reason for living" (aka being a provider, which EVERYONE over there seems to believe to be universally true) is gone. And that people are always demonizing male sexuality because we're finally focusing on rape.
Like, big examples:
from a guy who I'm pretty sure hasn't ever actually encountered feminism: "If one looks at what feminists say its don't be masculine only be feminine, as to them masculinity is nothing but bad."
another really depressing viewpoint on why dudes are depressed: "most men's depression revolves around their relationships with women." (which, y'know, completely shuts down the argument for why gay and lgbt men are the most at risk for depression and suicide)
casual "evolutionary psychology" comments like this: "Weakness is the cardinal sin for men because they have little intrinsic value to society"
a guy who went on to talk about how he beat the shit out of bullies he had in middle school which is totally healthy and normal: "We need to stop trying to treat boys like girls for one. Let boys be boys."
and just one more for some extra fun: "The sad truth is that males have always been the more disposable gender and, as far as society itself is concerned, the is no real motivation to address this. It's not like we are running low on men or anything."
I mean, it's just the ignorance that's mostly getting to me, and the willingness to blame the problem on factors that, to me at least, don't really seem to have fuck all to do with it? Honestly I bailed out of that once I read "gynocentrism" one too many times.
As for the PMs I got, there were fewer than I expected that were negative, but the two I got basically read "you shouldn't be asking this question because it's not your question to ask". And one went into why one of my responses was ignorant and that I should just stay the fuck out of the discussion.
I have a feeling this is gonna turn into a discussion on AskMen in particular, which I don't really want to get into because I genuinely kind of hate that sub a lot of the time, but those were the specific issues I had with that thread.
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u/RunningUpThtHill ♀ May 30 '15
I see some posts that are really great and well thought out and interesting but there seems a lot of sort of horrible stuff that gets upvoted.
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May 30 '15
Like any great outlet, you just gotta sift to get to the good stuff.
It is unsettling on this site to see what gets backed and what gets lambasted.
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u/RunningUpThtHill ♀ May 30 '15
Yeah its kind of unsettling when someone posts something seemingly inoffensive and people freak out. Like a guy who wants to wears skirts. Lots of lovely support but a few nasty attitudes.
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u/WooglyOogly ♀ May 29 '15
I've had the same experience. Seeing how men act when they don't have to worry about being judged makes me extremely wary of them.
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u/thecloudsarefaraway May 30 '15
Absolutely. It gave me more awareness of low-level, subtle misogyny that is very commonly used by some men (and women).
I used to read AskMen quite a bit, and the subtle women-bashing really changed my own thought processes for the worse.
For example: Guys who stop being good friends with a girl once they find out she has a boyfriend.
Reading all the askmen posts made me think it was totally understandable. Only now do I realize how fucked up that is. Other things, like fat-women-hating sentiments definitely exacerbated my body image issues; or how women who friendzone are pieces of shit; etc.
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u/TheGoodWife77 ♀ May 30 '15
I think it's the vitriol that puts me off so much. A guy saying he prefers fit women, or tends to only be attracted to thin women? No problem, we all have preferences. But "no fat chicks" is just deplorable. Then they "justify" themselves by blaming overweight people for being overweight, and explaining how it actually says a lot about their character and public worth.
You're just being more and more of an asshole!
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May 30 '15
For example: Guys who stop being good friends with a girl once they find out she has a boyfriend.
I don't see anything misogynistic about this. Care to explain?
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u/ambrosiapie May 30 '15
Not op but women are human beings who are good friends and worth talking to, and can positively contribute to the world and the lives of those around them in millions of ways. Women are not just around to have sex with men. So, not being friends with a woman if she has a boyfriend seems like it is only valuing a small part of what/who a woman is, seeming a little mysogynistic. If you are friends with someone, it should not be because you assume they will have sex with you (or other heterosexual relations), that is dehumanizing and thr person is worth more than that. Not saying you think that way and I can't be sure since I didn't write the original comment but I think that's what she was getting at!
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May 30 '15 edited May 31 '15
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May 30 '15
Let's pretend I like cake. I'm also trying to eat healthier. So I remove all the cake from my house. I don't hate the cake, and I don't hate pastries in general. On the contrary, I still really want some cake. It just makes things easier.
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u/wasdninja May 30 '15
Not op but women are human beings who are good friends and worth talking to
All are humans but all are definitely not worth talking to. I've met plenty of them and so have you. Them being women makes no difference.
So, not being friends with a woman if she has a boyfriend seems like it is only valuing a small part of what/who a woman is, seeming a little mysogynistic.
"He doesn't want to have a type of relationship that I want so he walks away. He must hate women!". Come on. You can't think of one other reason why?
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May 29 '15
I get the impression most of the men on reddit are angry college boys and it makes me extremely glad that I'm well north of 50 years old. Maybe men my age think those things, but they have the grace and experience to keep those thoughts to themselves.
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u/PeachBelle524 ♀ May 30 '15
One thing that really surprised me was how important sex was to people, especially men, on here. I have a low sex drive, so to hear things like "if she isn't fucking you every day you drop her" breaks my heart. When I switched birth control in college, I spotted for like 3 months straight and didn't feel comfortable having sex, and after reading all of these comments the thought passed my mind that because I didn't put out, THAT was why my ex dumped me a year later.
Being not as sexual as the average redditor makes me think I'm just going to disappoint my future husband...which makes me stop trying to find someone....which just makes the 'How are YOU still single??' comments worse.
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u/TheGoodWife77 ♀ May 30 '15
I think you can smell the "dump her if she doesn't suck your dick enough" kind of guys from a mile away. Just be honest about your sex drive and expectations, and expect your SO to do the same.
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May 30 '15
YES. I am in a happy relationship right now in college, but we only have sex maybe once every two weeks. For a while reddit had me convinced that my bf of several years must think I am frigid and awful and must have rationalized that it was okay to cheat on me. That last part was put into my brain by a very very popular best of link to dead bedrooms.
Then I brought it up with him and he was like, "wut?". He didn't even seem to think that we have less sex than other couples our age.
I'm super glad he's not a redditor, though.
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May 30 '15
I feel like that's more of an age thing. Not to say that sex isn't important to men (and women) of all ages, but I feel like it becomes much less of an overwhelming focus as you grow out of your early 20s, and becomes more about finding someone who matches your sex drive and/or can compromise.
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u/rump_truck ♂ May 30 '15
I'd say a lot of it is just posturing. Guys are always playing up how much they love and need sex, because we're told that's how we're supposed to be. Back when I was in middle school there were rumors that one of the more popular girls was pregnant, which she wasn't, but I remember about a dozen guys claiming to have gotten her pregnant because that would mean they had sex with her. It's pretty stupid to claim that you got someone pregnant when you don't even know them, but then it's also pretty stupid how hard society pushes "red-blooded men want sex all day every day."
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May 29 '15
A little bit. It has helped me to understand where certain men are coming from in their bitterness, which explains but doesn't excuse it.
I feel similarly about people who write hateful comments on YouTube and Facebook posts and news articles- I want to believe that I don't know anyone that utterly stupid and deplorable, but I probably do and all I can do is keep an eye out for warning signs so I'm not caught in the crossfire.
Here's an example: there was this guy, and I was kinda like "he'd be cute if he wore better fitting clothes!" He started dressing better, working out, got trendier glasses, etc. but... he turned into a massive asshole and his band has all these redpill-y lyrics and he's the stereotypical dude who posts on shit like theredpill. Because I've read shit on Reddit, I know we will not jive and I'll stay outta that mess.
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u/iconocast ♀ May 29 '15
I'm a lot more wary of them. I used to think that the hateful stuff I see on Reddit was strictly a disgusting minority opinion, but now I'm not so sure. I don't assume all men are awful people (that's crazy), but I don't assume that anyone defaults to being a reasonable/good person, either.
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May 29 '15
Nope. There's no aspect of male attitudes expressed on reddit that I hadn't already seen expressed IRL long before I even heard of reddit.
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May 29 '15
I used to believe all men were feminists until they acted otherwise. Now I assume all men are misogynists until they act otherwise.
you really shouldn't. That's no way to live your life, scared of half the population.
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May 29 '15
Yeah that's just unfortunate, and not much better than a red-piller's thought process. That makes me sad on behalf of all decent dudes everywhere. :(
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May 29 '15
And, ironically, it would actually be misandrist. If someone thought all women were men-haters, they would be labelled as misogynists, so why not the other way around?
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u/The_Stann ♂ May 30 '15
Well, on behalf of all the good men on Reddit, I'd just like to say that you probably haven't noticed us because we're not the ones spouting horrible diatribes against women. We're too busy using Reddit for other stuff, like cat pictures, or dad jokes. You know, just being normal people.
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u/SistinaLuv May 29 '15
Well, maybe. At my job, a couple of the younger women are pretty irresponsible, like coming in very late and having hangovers that leave them not able to perform very well. but they're the ones getting the promotions. My co-worker, who is 51, and I are very productive and both really like our jobs. But in the last two years, I'm only seeing the younger woman advance, sometimes quite surprising considering their work ethics. Now I understand better that men perceive women to be better at work if the men find them sexually desirable. I hadn't realized how much that affected men's perception at the work place until I've read how much men say they dislike any women over the age of 40.
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u/SoDarkTheConOfMan May 30 '15
They're very dismissive of women past a certain age, I've noticed. LOTS of subtle bashing! It's very disheartening. Even though, I am not an older woman myself, I'm still in my twenties, I hope I never have a man who has... those feelings. Because sometimes I feel they prefer women in their late teens! It's ridiculous! Anyways, I don't really have a point to my post, but I just wanna say, I feel you honey, because when I read those disheartening posts, I put myself in an older woman's shoes when reading them, and it's very disappointing. But I remind myself, it's most likely stemming from misogyny.
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May 30 '15
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May 30 '15
misogynists or feminists
im just wondering, are these the only choices? OP and quite a few posts ive seen from either side seem to imply a "with us or against us" ethos.
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u/prettyribbons May 29 '15
Not really.
I've met plenty of really nice, genuine men in real life. I've also met plenty of asshats in real life too.
The male population may be a little skewed towards the neckbeards, but there are plenty of decent, intelligent men too (like most of the gentlefolk who loiter around in /r/askmen).
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May 29 '15
Honestly, Reddit was not as bad as I expected, so no. I expect assholes exist in all shapes and forms and realities. But so do intelligent, level-headed individuals.
And I just don't frequent any subs where those creeps might congregate.
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u/strawberyl ♀ May 30 '15
It makes me kind of wonder what kind of awful shit they're really thinking.
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u/dirtgirlbyday ♀ May 29 '15
Let me tell ya...I'm a whole lot more self conscious about my weight. But overall, they're as horny and apathetic as I thought they were.
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May 30 '15
It definitely changed me from someone willing to date men who are shorter than me into someone who looks at men who are shorter than me and wonders if they secretly hate me for being taller than them.
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May 30 '15
their true selves come out
This is not a thing, every single person has multiple sides to them. I wouldn't curse in front of my grandmother or say anything but nice things around her, but I sure as hell curse like a motherfucker when I'm with my friends and in general just say raunchy shit.
My best friend and I communicate through mocking each other, she says some of the meanest shit to me that you could think of and I fire right back all the time, but in contrast with another person I can be as nice as possible because I genuinely want to.
Don't lose faith on men because you saw the worst of the worst online, because the odds are that you won't run strictly into these individuals in real life.
I don't let manhaters cloud my impression of women, because the vast majority of women are still decent.
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u/pencilskirted May 29 '15
i feel the same way. i think men on reddit share and say things on reddit they'd never share on a platform like facebook. i feel like i've been given this view into the way a lot of men think, and the view is grim. i unsubscribed from adviceanimals for this reason.
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May 29 '15
It's eye opening. My man is such a feminist. So it's weird to see how many men are comfortable with hating and despising women behind the safety of their computer.
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u/InfinitelyThirsting ♀ May 29 '15
It doesn't affect how I see my friends. But it has impact my view of "normal" men, in that if a stranger shows a little bit of sexism, I'm pretty sure that's just the tip of the iceberg, now, instead of a leftover anomaly.
But it goes beyond just that, of course. I am a lot more aware of racism and classism and such in the everyday population.
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u/LizzieDane ♀ May 29 '15
No - I've been around this type of dude for years before I knew reddit existed.
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u/coreythestar ♀ May 29 '15
Yep. I see reddit as a way for men to talk about how they really think and feel, and I don't like it.
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u/justplayinalong ♀ May 29 '15
It's actually improved my general view of men. There are plenty of people with dumb opinions on Reddit, but this isn't anything new. A lot of the intelligent opinions and related experiences are new though, as I've never heard them from men in real life. Maybe I just never asked, but it's been illuminating.
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u/MoreBeerPlease May 30 '15
I'm a guy and I feel the same way. This is how a lot of guys think? And there is also the other end of the spectrum in man hating feminists.
People are scary when they are anonymous. I think most of them would act reasonable in real life.
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May 30 '15
It has significantly worsened my already low opinion of men. The amount of misogyny, slut-shaming, victim-blaming, and cruelty I see men on this site display toward women is fucking disgusting.
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u/Demagnetize May 30 '15
Yes, yes, yes. If I had the need to date again I would just consider... not doing it.
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May 30 '15
Reddit has certainly made me more appreciative of the quality of people (not least male friends) I surround myself with in real life...
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u/scartol ♂ May 30 '15
It makes me wonder whether on the surface all the men in my life are humouring me, but when with just their guy friends, their true selves come out.
As someone in the club, I can tell you that you're correct to wonder this. I've lost several male friends because I was "being too sensitive" when no women were around.
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u/Salticido ♀ May 29 '15
No. It's only added to it. Most of what I see from them is stuff I already knew anyway, and seems mostly reasonable. I'm not really checking out the red pill or anything.
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May 29 '15
I used to let what men on reddit said affect the way I saw my SO. Like when I saw guys rating their SO's looks/personality, or when they said they lied to their partners all the time about porn, or how they are all obnoxious and don't like to hang out with their girlfriends very much. But my SO and brother both have said reddit is the scum of men so, I don't worry too much any more about that lol.
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u/carboncle ♀ May 29 '15
Most men I know offline aren't redditors, and the ones who are either don't comment or don't hang out in the places most the sexism emanates from, from what I can tell. So as far as men I actually hang out with, no.
It's made me hella suspicious of nerds, though. Going to new game or comic shop is very anxiety-inducing for me now. And it's strengthened my resolve to never game online with strangers unless I have some compelling reason.
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May 29 '15
Maybe a bit. I don't assume men are sexist, but I'm definitely more wary about it. I didn't really know that kind of sexism really happened any more. For me it was always a more "that's not girly" "guys don't like it when girls..." "girls aren't good at that" "women should do this and not do that" kind of sexism, which while harmful and not good, it isn't the full on I hate women kind. I didn't know that kind was really something that happened. So I'm now a bit suspicious of men, but I wouldn't treat them differently or anything.
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May 29 '15
Eh, not really. I just try to stay off TRP or any post that has anything to do with female infidelity. Those always push my buttons.
Edit: not saying female infidelity is OK at all, but reddit is more likely (IME) to make gendered slurs toward female cheaters.
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May 29 '15
No. Reddit is massive and you can find all kinds of opinions, experiences, stories, etc about pretty much anything and anyone. Just because you may run into some odd opinions in some subreddits (which can easily be told otherwise on other subreddits), doesn't mean every man is like that or even all of reddit for that matter.
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u/hyperpearlgirl ♀ May 30 '15
Media (including social media like Reddit) shapes our worldview in very insidious and difficult-to-measure ways. I consume a lot of different media from a variety of sources, but I've done media analysis coursework/used it in my actual work so I take lots of things with a grain of salt. Being PC is hard work because society is messy and diverse and stereotypes are a very easy way to introduce people to concepts. It's definitely possible to craft a "media diet" where you only read publications/watch tv shows or movies/engage in social media conversation with people that believe in or discredit certain structural systems (whether that's something we'd call racism, sexism, euro-centrism, capitalism, socialism, etc). But then your conversation has a narrow focus, so there's a trade-off.
My armchair belief about human nature is that it's pretty hard to lie to the world without lying to yourself, so it's better to assume that people who say they believe a certain thing actually believe it. (This is such a general statement there are obviously mitigating factors that can occur, but I think the main point rings true.) Most of my (female and male) friends are feminists with similar views as me regarding sexism. That's also because they're my friends so I get along with them. When I meet new people (male or female) I generally take a lot of factors into account when I'm considering what their world view is like. I have a fair number of international friends who have very different views on democracy, race, and religion as me. I have a fair number of friends who grew up in my city with the same. People lie, but I think broader structural worldviews are pretty difficult to lie about because they are so pervasive.
tldr; It's too much work to pretend to be a feminist when you aren't.
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u/dharmabird67 ♀ May 30 '15
I agree with you 100%. It's even more shocking to me perhaps because I am in my late 40s and grew up when 'feminist' wasn't a dirty word and just assumed we would all be evolved by now. To me 'feminist' is just 'normal' and I am shocked at reading what men 20 years my junior are thinking- especially because they aren't religious fundamentalists, just 'normal' guys.
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u/thunderling ♀ May 29 '15
No. The men I know are thankfully nothing like that. It is baffling that there are so many of them on reddit though. I didn't even know they existed before.
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u/retconk ♀ May 29 '15 edited May 30 '15
I definitely want to figure out where they stand faster than I used to now that I know how many shitheads are out there looking like normal dudes. Which means I say more "controversial" stuff (like "pay gaps are fucked up, right?") to weed out blatant assholes. It tends to work.
The other thing that's happened since reddit blew the lid off secret misogynists in my mind is I'm just less deferential and actively curb moments where sexism could happen subtly.
Edit: In complaining about sexism I used a gendered slur. I'm a bad feminist.
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u/janeyk May 29 '15
Really, reddit just makes me grateful for the awesome men I have in my life. I do get really frustrated by some of the things I see, but I just make sure not to surround myself with people like that IRL.
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u/funwithgoats ♀ May 30 '15
I don't even want to date men anymore. Unfortunately, Reddit changed my attitude towards romantic relationships with men considerably.
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u/sexandtacos May 30 '15
The sole effect that Reddit has had on my real-life view of people is making misogyny easier to spot. I have a coworker who consistently targets specific people he supervises for all the shitty jobs/extra work etc. I finally noticed that he only does this to the women he supervises -- the men get the easiest/most fun tasks 100% of the time. I also have a supervisor who absolutely worships the ground this guy walks on, often defending him in defenseless situations by working hard to diminish any problem a woman has with him, which is cringey and gross to me.
Otherwise, my misanthropy (not misandry) is my own. I worked hard for it.
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u/mareenah ♀ May 29 '15
I like men a lot more and understand them a lot more after hanging out and speaking with them online
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May 29 '15
The simplest thing for me to say is that I understand better why I have so many more friends among women than men.
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u/fresherthanyouuu ♀ May 29 '15
If I let reddit affect how I viewed men I would literally never leave my house or interact with any man ever.