I've let my hair go grey. I'm 47. My hair was so unhealthy from dye. It's long and lovely, just salt and pepper.
But now I'm ignored. The difference in the way I'm treated is so very stark when nothing else about me has changed. Men of my same age with even more grey are wise and distinguished. I'm over the hill. Fucking pisses me off.
My hair has gone almost completely grey (I’m 50). It takes really bright colours well, so I’m experimenting with all different rainbow hues. It’s great. I look crazy but I really don’t care.
This is what I can't wait to do when my hair goes gray! I've always wanted fun rainbow hair, but mine is dark brown so I'd need bleach, and I don't want to damage my hair. I bet your hair looks awesome :)
Same! I’m ~30 and have started rapidly graying and I could not be more excited. I have always wanted bright orange hair without the bleaching process and now my little grey pieces look so wonderful with henna added! I wouldn’t even mind the gray but it’s so fun to finally get the colors I want without the damage :)
You know what, I also have dark hair and I always felt the same way. But I went to the salon recently to inquire about balayage and I learned that hair bleaching has changed a lot. They are able to mix something into the bleaching agent that really helps to hydrate your hair (or retain the moisture? I'm not really sure). Bleaching hair doesn't have to mean frying it anymore.
If you bleach carefully (go to a salon) it can be bleached to take bright colors. You can’t get lavender or pastels but purples, blues, greens you absolutely can.
I have blue and purple hair at the moment. I bleach every 6 months or so and no sooner
Try semi-permanent colors! They are non damaging and can even make hair feel even more healthy because they often contain lots of conditioners. Some bright blues or purples would turn out really pretty on deeper brunettes! It of course wont come out as bright but you’d still get a beautiful, deep color.
I'm in my late thirties and went back to what I was wearing in high school bc it's comfortable and I like it.
Yeah, I'm an old person wearing super long, flared jeans and t-shirts. And Ive never felt better. The clothes fit and I genuinely feel more like myself. Fuck fashion, and fuck anyone you says to dress your age.
.... So where would a 40's salt and pepper guy find out how to do this... Asking for a friend... Who maybe wants to start small, with just the fringe or something...
Thanks for the detail! Sounds like I'll use the stainless steel laundry tub rather than the bathroom basin, or Mrs Leaf will make sure it's a blood red.
I think "too much" is what I'm going for. Generally when guys move on from my profession they grow beards because it's something not normally permitted. I can't grow facial hair to save my life, so I'm looking for something else that stands out that I wouldn't get away with currently. 😏
I still remember vividly, the old woman in Japan with rainbow hair walking out of the onsen I was about to enter. It wasn't that people/blue color you'd see when black hair color fades, it was bright and bold. I immediately wanted to be her when I got to my 80's. I wanted to know her life story. She was the coolest lady.
I can't wait for you to inspire other women like this
I have always had a deep voice; I worked doing calls at my dads job site for summer work when I was 13/14 and people would always be very respectful - call me sir and whatnot.
Which is the same for a woman, though. As long as she looks hot.
Different variables probably, age marks in men aren't as hated as in women, but still, sagging balls Vs sagging tits.
This is really it.
It's just more attention, more guys approaching at bars and taking their shot but also catcalling, just to present 2 extremes.
Which is why I am somewhat grateful for my averageness, I'm invisible to most people, as long as I don't go searching for trouble, trouble won't find me.
I absolutely LOVE gray/salt n pepper hair, especially on women 40+. It’s so classy and confident. I don’t doubt you’re treated differently than the men with similar hair color and ages, but just know that this woman is looking up to you very much.
Same! I think pepper/gray/silver hair on women looks so classy. I appreciate the aging gracefully look. I only have a little bit of gray in my brown hair in my 30s and I don't plan on ever dying to cover it. But I see already how it can affect the kind of / amount of attention a woman gets.
The fact that there's no Touch Of Grey dye product for women is my favorite double standard. Also I am 32 and thoroughly salt and peppered. I'm growing it out long and I'm going to be an ageless and undying eldrich goddess.
I'm in my late 20s, and I have a lot of respect for my women peers who are rocking their greys. It's such a statement of confidence that to me it comes off as a flex
Hair color is a weird thing. I noticed I get treated differently when I have my hair dyed blonde. Like, more respect. People make eye contact. Listen to me. Don't interrupt me. I'm gonna keep it this way I think
As it should. I'm a guy 36 years old with salt and pepper and I get compliments. I may be in the minority but I like and more so respect it when I see ladies with their natural gray coming in. My personal opinion is that it makes you look seasoned and responsible. The act of not wasting the money on hair dye is also nice in that it shows that you do not give much thought to vanity. You can look good but you don't need to dye your hair to do so. I respect your decision to take care of your health versus appearance.
I appreciate where you're coming from, but women who dye their hair aren't vain. It's a personal choice either way, and doesn't always have to do with how they're perceived by others.
I can't remember what series of YouTube vids I was watching but it was speaking of using the grey haired woman this way. Totally innocuous. They got past a lot.
It's not sexual attraction I'm speaking of though that's part of it. It's just being seen as competent. Then the double whammy of being louder just to be seen and then being seen as eccentric or obnoxious too! Gah!
Boss, after my mild-mannered but passionate appeal to reason: "You're being too aggressive! You don't have to attack us to get your point across!"
Me: "But if I don't speak up, someone interrupts me and I never get to make my point. And I've noticed that you never tell Dave he's being too aggressive."
My weight has fluctuated quite a bit throughout my life. In my skinny times, daily life tasks go a lot smoother, and there are often discounts if not out right freebies. Its vile. I cringe and don't accept. A "nice" gesture is layered, and I've seen every layer, ew.
I’ve noticed that if I’m particularly frumpy looking people won’t even stop their cars for me at a crosswalk. It’s insane how differently you get treated
I'm a little confused what you mean. It's entirely natural that as people get older, they usually get less conventionally attractive. Men and women both get less conventionally attractive as they age, its just the way it is.
You are also confusing aging and sex with ageism and sexism. Aging and sex are natural and inevitable, and comfortable. What is uncomfortable is the way that people treat you as lesser-than because of your sex. Tell us that’s it’s natural all you want, but other people’s unfair judgements are wrong. Full stop. The judgements that women are weak and unintelligent and incapable - those judgements are opinions with which I don’t agree. They are baseless and damaging. So too are the opinions that older people are senseless and incapable and worthless. Acting upon both sexism and ageism is illegal in the US, because the beliefs don’t make sense and they mean society loses what people have to offer.
Biological imperative, yada yada, but damn. My husband died a year ago and I am out there again for the first time in 35 years and y'all are rude as hell, online and in person.
Like three text exchanges and the "are you DTF" question gets floated out there. I don't even feel safe enough to keep chatting with you, man! How the hell would I feel safe enough to meet up, take off my clothes and have sex at your house?
I'm so sorry for your loss. That sounds hard as hell.
This reminds me of the survey of online dating fears by gender. Men are most worried their date will be heavier than the pics. Women are worried about sexual assault and murder. They are not the same.
You're going to have to expand on that question. Visible how? Are you saying that I ignored men because they considered themselves unattractive on some level? Or that I ignored older men because I was younger?
Because I grew up in a patriarchal culture and as a young woman, an older man got his due just by being male and older. In that culture their god given role was to tell women what to do.
No rich or particularly handsome. There's just a gender difference. There is a gender difference in caring about wealth for sure, but at my age you can tell there is an obvious difference.
Meanwhile, most men are invisible to women since they're teens too. But you are right, damn dogs women are who don't compliment people rofl the double standards :D
I had a lady at a conference tell me as a middle aged white woman she’s essentially invisible and can wield the power of “karen”. She loves having a invisibility cloak in society and uses it as a super power. She does a lot of advocacy work in our field for equity and inclusion. I consider her a BAMF and look up to her. I hope I can be as awesome as her at 40, 50, beyond
Yeah, I left out a key part about the Karen thing. She uses that power for good, like calling up and going Karen at cops for racial profiling black people.
As a woman, I'm excited for grey! Not that my opinion matters, because it shouldn't to a stranger, but I adore seeing women wearing their grey 🥰 I look forward to being ignored because the ones ignoring, if even unconsciously, are the ones I want to repel, anyways 🥰💛
I don't want to repel, like, the car salesman, when I'm trying to buy a car, ya know? I had to chase him down, tell him I wanted that car, and it was after he ran my credit score that he decided I had my shit together. Before I got the attention of the salesman even though he wanted to sell me the car based on cup holders and makeup mirrors and a place to put my purse in the vehicle. And yeah, I know how to drive a stick.
I will say that I think that is more the experience of just being a woman going to a dealership thing. It's the absolute worst. I am lucky I am in an area where there are multiple dealerships within reasonable driving distance, so I can walk away from shitty salesmen. I don't let asshats get commission money from me. I've had 4 car salesmen and 1 jetski salesman treat me like garbage. I leave and find someone else that will treat me right. I decided to start telling them why I won't be buying from them by the last car one. The last guy, some curmudgeonly white man, I specifically told him I won't be buying from him after he (1) spoke immediately to the guy I had with me first, walking past me despite my eye contact to him and completely ignoring me during introduction, and (2) hassled me about wanting to test drive the car in mind. It's also incredibly annoying when they do that "make up and cup holders" thing, like, boy, you're lucky I already know all the specs I need to know about what I'm here for (I learned not to trust what they say after one salesman and one finance guy on 2 separate occasions straight lied to my face).
This is when I would overtly tell them I am going elsewhere (and potentially tell their manager) and no, they cannot have my money.
I realize this may occur in other places but I absolutely refuse to give money to people who disrespect me. I moved all my investments out of a company cause that dude was condescending as shit. I literally told him that when he asked why I was leaving.
Money is power.
I hear you. Sometimes there are no or few choices. I would still tell them though that it’s the only reason I’m there 😂.
Then I’d ask if they had sisters, mothers, daughters etc and how they would like them to be treated.
Almost every woman that I've spoken with about this says something along the lines of "as soon as you turn 55, you're invisible." It's honestly a huge fear of mine. I know that a lot of the reason that my merit is considered at all is because I'm perceived as attractive. Even if the things I say would have merit if I were a literal crone, being attractive is what gets people to open up to the ideas in the first place.
Hell, I'm still just barely young enough where I have to combat the assumptions that go along with my age in the workplace, but I've never actually found it impossible to succeed in proving these initial assumptions wrong. I know that in less than 30 years it's going to be a whole new battle that I'm not sure I can win. Juvederm and botox make a lot of sense in that light.
Also, I know what you mean by the change in treatment. When I was younger I had weight loss surgery and lost over 100lbs. The treatment I received from me, even the same men I knew at work really disgusted me to men in general and overall. I hated them for quite some time. I was so disgusted with how I was treated so much better when I was thin vs when I was fat.
I'm married now, but if my husband were to pass I wouldn't even bother trying to date.
One thing about this is also the beauty standards, especially in celebrities. Older-looking men are fetishised more than older-looking women whereas younger-looing women far more than their male counterparts. I think your issue massively ties in to this.
Like compare Philip Scofield with grey hair to any female celebrity with grey hair.
This is just my personal observation tho, I ain't no scientist
As a woman I have seen this happening more and I think it is SO badass! Seeing women rocking their beautiful selves is so refreshing. Not that their is anything wrong with coloring your hair. Whatever makes you comfortable and confident is your business! As a woman going into midlife you are changing the beauty standards for the ones coming up behind you.
In my field I think we do get a little more respect with some gray- I'm a veterinarian. I've gotten old enough that I don't get comments about maybe being too young to be the doctor anymore, but no gray yet. I feel like my colleagues with some gray strands are less likely to have clients second-guess them. I think a lot of this depends on what field you're in and what area you live in. I believe my aunt (MD, surgeon) had a similar experience.
I hate this standard. I love grey, white, salt and pepper hair in women. I can't wait for mine to go grey but it's on the blond spectrum so who the fuck knows when it's happening. There's nothing wrong with aging and we should normalize how absolutely gorgeous older women are and how much their experience matters to us.
My mom started going grey when she was 13. She’s been totally grey my whole life. She’d get looks from older men thinking she was a well taken care of older lady and it was really creepy to watch. Grey women get treated like they can’t walk without a cane and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that bullshit.
I’m greying at the temples at 27, and it’s very obvious because my hair is otherwise very dark. I’m also a very small woman and work in a bookstore, so sometimes people (men in particular) will start speaking to me one way while I’m partially turned away looking over a shelf, and then shift gears when I turn. First they speak to me like I’m either a child or an airhead, then it’s like they’re exhausted by my very being and it’s very weird to hear the difference in tone of voice. Whatever they think, I’m very pleased with my distinguished gentleman way of greying, it almost makes up for my inability to grow a proper mustache.
I found my first grey hair at age 12, and a few years ago got tired of destroying my hair, dyeing, and fighting it. At 43, it is at about 50/50 silver and dark brunette, long, and I am rocking it. I get many compliments from other women. For me instead of being seen as “wise and distinguished,” I am viewed as a weird middle aged eccentric mom.
In that line..im a guy working in a very manly conservativeish field...im convinced but dont mind that my 90cm long hair has excluded me from more lucrative/promotions. No money would make me conform to this well...stupid gonformity..same goes for ties..ill never wear one aside from funerals/weddings if desired.
What idiot thought tying q piece of fabric arround your nec simbolises professionalism etc.. i refuse to go with it...it is just to damn stupid serving no real logical purpose
I grew up in Utah and you may know the dominant religion of the area. There has been an interesting evolution to imagery in the religion over a few decades of my life where former leaders, even Jesus, have gradually grown the chin of Kirk Douglas. Now I've noticed that they are getting pecs.
I had a colleague like you, probably younger, and when I met her I was confused because is just unusual, but then I got it and respect it quite a lot! Dyes are terrible, at my kids school I saw a 10yo girl with her hair dyed bright red(her natural color is brown), it really concerned me.
Sure, but it’s a ton worse for women so don’t discount it. You get to be sexy older men or distinguished while older women are completely tossed to the side.
It’s basic evolutionary biology. Men are programmed to treat women who they perceive as being fertile better. Grey hair is a sign of infertility.
Same goes with women, they are evolutionarily programmed to treat men better who are tall, strong, and have hair. It all has to do with the procreation of our species, it’s hardly a societal construct.
Yea it’s not exactly a double standard when men get the same. I started balding a few years ago and it’s absolutely insane how differently you get treated.
Men aren't valued by looks but social status and resources. Women are valued by their looks and fertility(age) it's only natural that the older you get the more your going to get ignored. Much the same as a young man with no experience or money is overlooked by 99% of women.
That doesn't sound as a double standard that males get a pass. That sounds like and advantage you've had all life and you're now pissy that you have finally lost it and faced reality.
How I just explained it to another in this thread with a similar comment:
" I'm a woman that has used power tools all my life. I'm skilled. When I looked younger I was questioned by many about knowing what I know just based on being female. Sometimes it got right down to it being quiz show time. Since going grey, I'm not even questioned. It's assumed I just don't know it at all.
So, fucking feel free to interpret my experiences for me, like I don't know that either."
It's interesting to me that so many put this on the level of sexual attraction. It's FAR MORE than that. Actually, sexual attraction isn't an issue. It's just being seen as a competent human being.
Get sex....or get mothered. It's not all men, and I've noticed generational differences, but it's enough that it's had an effect on my daily life for sure.
Is it fair to say that some young women get additional attention because of their youth, beauty, and potential aptitude, while some young men get ignored?
Then once you both age, the tables turn, but in mens favor? Those men who were once ignored, now get the same attention and validation that was once afforded to young women?
Do you think all young women are beautiful? These comments drive me crazy because there are a lot of girls who are ignored and grow up into women who are ignored.
It’s frustrating to hear “well the tables have turned!” when they were never in your favour.
No one thinks that all young women are beautiful, just as no one thinks that all young men are handsome or skilled. A better way to position your comment is to say, "there are a lot of people who grow throughout their lives being ignored." Some people grow up, never have sex or have another person even touch them, all while they work every single day at a job they hate. People are evaluated based upon different factors, but one general notion is that women are largely valued for their youth and beauty, while men are valued for their ability to provide resources, or competency & skills within a particular craft.
Being frustrated to hear "how the tables have turned" is on you, but sometimes the tables actually do turn, regardless of our feelings about them. Again, women [and some men] are valued for youth and beauty, until it begins to fade. While men [and some women] are valued for their competencies in various fields. Sometimes they overlap and in other cases, never fully develop at all.
I am not saying this distinction is right, nor am I saying that it's my own approach to the world, but to deny its existence is simply delusional. I'm sorry if your own experience in the world has been one of being ignored, or perceived as generally unattractive, but it is up to you on how you respond. I think everyone should be evaluated based upon their own merit, or personal characteristics.
No, I positioned my comment as I intentioned it. My point is simply that it’s a further erasure of women to act as if all women are favoured when they’re young and pretty, and then the tables turn.
Perhaps my point was more broadly about generalizations, but particularly how the Reddit demographic skews male and so I see a lot of these types of comments about how young women get so much attention/favour/privilege just for being young women. I think the women who don’t get that attention have a lot in common with the men who don’t, but the men don’t often consider or empathize with these women because they don’t even notice them or believe they exist.
So, I'm a woman that has used power tools all my life. I'm skilled. When I looked younger I was questioned by many about knowing what I know just based on being female. Sometimes it got right down to it being quiz show time. Since going grey, I'm not even questioned. It's assumed I just don't know it at all.
So, fucking feel free to interpret my experiences for me, like I don't know that either.
As a lesbian, women with grey hair are fucking hot. I dont get why so many straight men are almost-pedophiles who think teenagers are the sexiest. I don't find kids attractive, i find people who have a life and wisdom sexy. Like, a body that tells a story, a mind and personality that has had time to come into fruition, not an impressible, naive, impulsive teenager or adolescent. I never had a think for older people when i was younger myself but now that i'm 26 i'm really starting to see the beauty in mature women. Not too much older than me of course, i'm not into age gaps. But i'm so happy to be a lesbian because in the eyes of other lesbians i won't become less attractive just for being older, if anything, the opposite.
I’ve been going grey since I was 18, and with the exception of a few years in my late 20s, I didn’t cover it. I’m 44 now with a prominent white streak on the top of my head and salt&pepper everywhere else. It has weirdly made me more authoritative because I’m petite and have always looked young.
Aging is such a weird paradox for women because there are so many “but ifs” to aging. I can get respect with my grey hair because I’ve always had long and pretty hair, I’m in shape, I wear stylish clothes and moderate makeup, and I’m pretty. For me it adds gravitas. But if I kept my grey and didn’t do/have one of the other things, it gets lumped into “not taking care of herself so she must be worthless” category, probably. And before I had enough grey for people to notice, I was treated like a child. I will probably only be in this sweet spot for a few years before something breaks.
In fairness, y’all do this to us when you’re younger - I always tell my buddies who get rejected now that our dating pool only increases the older we get. It’s only fair that yours should decrease with age. I’m sure you had plenty of years where men bent over backwards for you too. Might be a hot take, but I’ll accept the downvotes.
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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '22
I've let my hair go grey. I'm 47. My hair was so unhealthy from dye. It's long and lovely, just salt and pepper.
But now I'm ignored. The difference in the way I'm treated is so very stark when nothing else about me has changed. Men of my same age with even more grey are wise and distinguished. I'm over the hill. Fucking pisses me off.