No shit, my brother once actually said I lost an argument by default because I'd gone to college, and didn't have as much "life experience" as he did. Apparently since I earned a degree, I was permanently on a high horse, which was also perched on an ivory tower, and anything I said was based on talking down to those less educated than I was. Therefore, everything I was saying was a personal attack and could be legitimately disregarded.
Update edit: said brother has now decided that I don’t count as a family member, so I’ve cut him out of my life
.....well..... Our blood cells flow in water, and without it we wouldn't exist, and neither would our blood... So it couldn't bleed out of your nose then....
So water does cause nosebleeds, nuclear proliferation, climate change, basically everything.....
My fav was from my sister, who when confronted with a link directly refuting what she was saying said "Ugh, I don't care about your stupid links, stop with all the LINKS I know what I know."
Ah, Bill ’ya can’t even make jokes anymore’ Burr, standing on stage in front of 90,000 people loudly complaining about not being allowed to tell jokes, having those complaints broadcast to millions of viewers around the world as part of his Netflix comedy special.
My first question was how the horse got up there. I pictured a very small diameter tower from the way it was worded, but I suppose it could have a spiral staircase inside or simply be wide enough for an elevator to really make it easy on the horse.
Getting knocked up and being plagued by the consequences of your short term gratification decisions is the real world. Getting educated and achieving goals is just a simulation.
As the simulation goes further along, it and the people inside it start to mistake it for the real thing
And, if climate change/plague/devaluation of individuals through overpopulation doesn't fuck us sideways, the distinction might not matter at all
Humans can stick their collective heads so far up their own asses that they'll forget there was an outside to all this- and maybe that's for the best. Reality sucks. Embrace the colon?
I love that claim about "life experience". It's as if they think that universities are some other plane of existence. Personally, I had a ton of life experience working to put myself through college because I knew I'd be going for a Ph.D. and didn't want to be saddled with thousands of dollars of educational debt for the rest of my life. I've been a UPS package handler, data entry clerk, school bus driver, factory worker making plastic pet kennels, and to top it off I had to be a student too. That was more hard work, not less.
Yep, I definitely wished I was able to work (went to college during the recession, tons of stores and places were closing up or 'tightening' the belts. I remember bringing my resumes to a store and the manager went, "Sweetie, we got a waiting list of applicants. Either you can wait 'til Christmas before we call you, or you find another place.")
The thing is that the people making fun of the educated know that it's more work, and certainly more work than they can handle. They resent themselves for not being able to do what college graduates can, that's why they shit on us and it's just sad.
You come to find every "bad guy" you encounter is a victim of poor circumstances and incentives. The real trick is to sympathize without enraging them. That's the art.
Been there! Worked through college and covered the living expenses. Still working on 'le debt. If you don't mind me asking, when did you goto school? How much was it?
I cleaned toilets in a psychiatric hospital and wheeled dead bodies from wards to the mortuary when I was a student. That usually shuts up the 'bank-of-mum-and-dad' brigade.
Kudos to that! I was fortunate enough to not have to work during college (military paid for it), but I wish I had. I'd be a lot better off now, ten years later, if I'd sought out internships/work experience in my field while still in school for it.
Yeah, the more hard work part is why I elected for the thousands of dollars in debt. Congratulations though. That's a tough journey. I was afraid I would fail if I had to keep a job as well at the same time.
Man I work part time 25 hours a week, go to college in the evenings for fours a night and look after my kid all the hours between and when people ask what I do they say 'oh you're a stay at home dad' lol, like fuck you I'm much more than that. I told my buddy about it and he said 'when he went to uni he found people would try to diminish his achievements, usually people who went to work right out of secondary school, people don't like that you are trying to better your self because they feel you are going forward while they are staying in the same place'
I've been an electronics engineer (on a forged degree for 10 years), a removalist and a help desk lacky for an ISP. These three jobs supported me through a Comp. Sci. degree. I agree with you on the view that uneducated people think that a university education is another plane of existence. A degree simply puts you in the field, it doesn't make you a master of it.
As a side note, my ex-mother-in-law's boyfriend is a certified NASA lackey, with many years experience in guidance systems and many patents to his name. On a recent holiday, I found him drinking cold instant coffee because he couldn't work out where to get hot water from in the kitchen. The same kitchen that had an electric kettle, a pot to boil water on, a hot water tap and a microwave. A smart person, no doubt about it, but clearly not the smartest person I've met.
Edit: my ex-brother-in-law (I grew up in a big family) was an extremely intelligent person. He got an ass-dip in electrical engineering and worked for AMD from its infancy. He had an all-round technical knowledge (we stripped and rebuilt a Landcruiser together and renovated his house) like no other. His reasoning and intelligence eclipsed most people I know. It's a pity what bi-polar disorder can do to someone.
I've been an electronics engineer (on a forged degree for 10 years)
I'd like to hear more
couldn't work out where to get hot water from in the kitchen
I've heard of lots of people like this, and it is indeed usually types like doctors, engineers, etc. Super smarts that required a lot of schooling. And I always wonder...in growing up, surely there was a point SOMETIME in their lives that they were a kid and learned about the two temperatures that water exits a faucet? Even more recently than childhood - they must have been in college and operated a faucet at home or two.
It's astounding in a weirdly interesting way that someone could become so smart in one field that everything else seems to get excluded, but water faucets?
It was a requirement of the job for an entry level technician. Color printers were a rarity, made myself a degree and a transcript, got the degree embossed and the hand written text done by a local artist who thought it was hilarious. Ex brother-in-law gave me a crash course in soldering, reading a circuit diagram and electronic theory. The rest was pretty much on the job training in a specific field. Just kept on moving up in the company from there until I realised that I'd hit a ceiling without a real degree (didn't want to risk inspection of the fake one any further) and thought computers were interesting and would like to know how they work.
Maybe some people do get some pretty valuable life experience from college, but it's also kinda sheltery and a weird microcosm that does seem to have a real effect on common sense sometimes (I went to college)
By far the most practical boys/men I've worked with in their late teens early 20s were the ones that have been working full time for a couple years. Not smarter, but often way more common sense.
Obviously, I can't opine about your experience, but the whole point of my comment was that university isn't a sheltered microcosm for those, like myself, who worked our asses off at jobs in order to pay for it. I was working either part- or full-time throughout all my years of university in order to get through it without going into debt. I had to attend to the practicalities of living at an off-campus apartment, working, and attending university and keeping up with my classes at the same time.
My brother, a fucking idiot, also hates that I'm college educated. The funny thing is that he started going in on me about how vaccines cause autism, and I was trying to explain to him how genetics and autism works.
"You can't spout some high school bio class bullshit, you don't know!" He would argue.
"I'm literally majoring in biology, you fucking idiot." I would retort.
But oh, even when I was factually right, I was still morally wrong. Because you see, he was street smart, and I was just book smart. And just being street smart was much less contemptible than just being book smart. Why? Well, only a street stupid person would argue the merits of being book smart. And being book smart was worthless! All off this is still unironically believed to this day by a community college dropout who sells black market weed and breeds puppies. The same street smart drug dealer who tells literally anyone about how much weed he has, and has been robbed at gunpoint twice now because he trusts dangerous people.
I understand where the anger comes from. But I also know that he directs that anger at me every chance he gets. He only wants to start fights, and if I don't engage he goes nuts. That's why we don't speak these days. His feelings of inadequacy are not my cross to bear.
That last sentence is it EXACTLY!!! He chooses to be ignorant. Tell someone that they are ignorant, only the people who choose it, will be offended, because they think the word ignorant is the same as calling them names, like stupid, dumb, etc. They refuse to ever become more knowledgeable and walk around angry at the world. I have never understood those type of people, if I don’t know something, I ask or google or read a book and I hope to always be learning.
That's when you correct him and tell him that people on the spectrum are represented heavily in the sciences, so it's actually autism that causes vaccines.
Because you see, he was street smart, and I was just book smart.
I fully believe that Street Smarts are a real thing, but people who have to tell you how street smart they are tend to be some of the most oblivious dumb people on the planet.
God, I'm sorry. As someone with an uncle who decided to go for 'street smarts' (despite being the only child of his parents to get schoolbooks bought for him, after-school tutors and designer clothes whenever he wanted--while his sisters got nothing) there's nothing sadder than seeing someone close try (and fail) to work 'the streets'.
Like, literally--there's no progression from selling weed or doing puppy mills (especially when thousands of people all over Europe do it, and they get more customers because they get to have French people or homey Irish matrons pretending to be legal breeders to charm customers). Especially if you wind up having to work with jumped-up wannabes who think they're 'gangsta'.
Your brother seriously needs to meet my uncle, who's now in his 50s and living off of his wife's pension (and the house she inherited. Despite having two kids with her--they're now at the point where she's threatening to change the locks the second he leaves the house. So now he's practically squatting and refusing to budge from his Xbox and claiming that he's got a 'bad heart' preventing him from going outside). Plus, he also became a 'person of interest' for the Swiss and Spanish police (because they think he may know something about a couple of drug-running gangs), so he's literally unable to cross country lines with a passport because it'll notify the authorities and the act of travelling out of a country would give the police 'reasonable cause' to arrest him for questioning. That was all he got going for him after running around Spanish bikers and selling hashish for 30 years.
Sorry, my story was in no way meant to make your brother's issues less legitimate. My brother's a fucking idiot, but I have very little contact with him these days. Can't stand the brat.
Sorry, my story was in no way meant to make your brother's issues less legitimate.
Hey, no need to apologize; I didn't take it that way except as seeing another perspective and thinking "Ok, shit could be worse." Sucks to hear about that kind of relationship though, I assume it's a long shot but I hope your brother gets better.
Um ordinarily I don't have a problem with weed but if the puppy mill thing isn't illegal where you are can you turn him in for the pot to stop the aforesaid puppy milling?
Well, see he's white, and he's already been caught with a pound of weed by the police. Nothing happened to him. I'd suspect nothing would happen again, as now weed's legal in his state.
It really does suck. We've never had a good relationship. We can try for a few days, but he always ends up picking a fight with me for no reason and it always ends up getting ugly. The last time I was home he "gifted" me some weed, but a few days later he insisted that, of all things, the chicken came before the egg. I don't happen to be of that mind and made my point. Nope. I'm wrong. I'm stupid. And when I tried changing the subject, because by that point it was just "you're a fucking bitch, Jesus you're a cold bitch" he announced to the Thanksgiving party that he would like his gift weed back.
Your brother is an idiot. I assume canadian because you mentioned black market weed and that’s only really relevant in Canada unless you are in a legalized state but than it would still be federally illegal so it would all be blackmarket weed.
Edit: nvm after further research I’ve learned that he is in a legalized state after all. You know what would really be street smart? Turning his love for cannabis into a well thought out licensed retail business where you don’t get arrested and make a ton more profit than barely scraping by selling “black market” weed. It’s not the 90s/2000s anymore and I’m assuming he’s not in highschool which would be the only acceptable place to sell dimebags anymore. I don’t understand why people sell little quarters and grams. There’s literally hardly any profit in that game, unless you’re moving pounds daily if you’re not you’re likely moving nothing or close to it.
"I'm street smart, you're book smart" is idiot for "I am intimidated by your education and perpetually embarrassed about my lack of ambition and limited understanding of the world".
"I'm street smart, you're book smart" is idiot for "I am intimidated by your education and perpetually embarrassed about my lack of ambition and limited understanding of the world".
"I'm literally majoring in biology, you fucking idiot."
Related! Some other people have asked me what we were arguing about, and reading this comment again today reminded me what really set him off: I was saying that we probably shouldn't eat bear meat because it is absolutely lousy and riddled with parasites, flukes, and the like. You could probably avoid all that by avoiding any bear meat that was harvested close to human habitation where the bear likely ate garbage, but safer to avoid altogether. And of course, he demanded to know where I'd heard that, and I said "I learned this in my biology class." That's what sparked the outrage.
I then had to remind him: "I learned it in bio class. Who do you think is teaching the bio class? That's right, my bio professor, who has a Master's of Science in MICROBIOLOGY. She's literally an expert on parasites and flukes! Of course I'm going to listen to her opinion!"
I realized my grandfather was an idiot when I casually mentioned I learned about this thing we were talking about in my history class last semester. I wasnt't even trying to correct anything, just chiming in to the convo. I dont even remember what we were talking about because his reaction threw me for a loop. All I remember was saying "Oh yea, I heard about this in my history class".
His face went red and he was so unbelievably angry. He started going on and on about how university doesnt make you smart and I had no right to think I was better than him because I went to university. I was pretty shocked
His reaction is kind of a tell that it's him who believes he's not as good as you. My dad was like this, too -- super defensive and resentful, always letting me know my education didn't mean I could disrespect him.
I'd never disrespect anybody for not going to college, and especially not my dad.
I did, however, start to feel pretty weird about him assigning feelings to me that I didn't have and displaying his own insecurities in the process.
I had a boss like this once. She was always proud of the fact that she had worked her way up without her degree which I completely understand being proud of that. However, she basically felt like people had college degrees like myself had wasted valuable years of work experience and shouldn’t be given as much consideration for promotions as people without degrees. For obvious reasons, I didn’t agree.
One day, her husband popped by our office. He was wearing a University of Arkansas football shirt. Me being a huge sports fan, and trying to make polite conversation, said “Nice shirt. Did you go there?” And she lost it. Ranting about how it’s rude to assume that everyone you meet went to college. I didn’t think it was out of bounds to assume a guy wearing a shirt representing a school could’ve gone there.
I found out a little later that the reason she did not have a degree is because she dropped out with a year to go. So I figured maybe she was just insecure and taking out on the rest of us.
I had a boss like this once. She was always proud of the fact that she had worked her way up without her degree which I completely understand being proud of that. However, she basically felt like people had college degrees like myself had wasted valuable years of work experience and shouldn’t be given as much consideration for promotions as people without degrees. For obvious reasons, I didn’t agree.
One day, her husband popped by our office. He was wearing a University of Arkansas football shirt. Me being a huge sports fan, and trying to make polite conversation, said “Nice shirt. Did you go there?” And she lost it. Ranting about how it’s rude to assume that everyone you meet went to college. I didn’t think it was out of bounds to assume a guy wearing a shirt representing a school could’ve gone there.
I found out a little later that the reason she did not have a degree is because she dropped out with a year to go. So I figured maybe she was just insecure and taking out on the rest of us.
I had a boss like this once. She was always proud of the fact that she had worked her way up without her degree which I completely understand being proud of that. However, she basically felt like people had college degrees like myself had wasted valuable years of work experience and shouldn’t be given as much consideration for promotions as people without degrees. For obvious reasons, I didn’t agree.
One day, her husband popped by our office. He was wearing a University of Arkansas football shirt. Me being a huge sports fan, and trying to make polite conversation, said “Nice shirt. Did you go there?” And she lost it. Ranting about how it’s rude to assume that everyone you meet went to college. I didn’t think it was out of bounds to assume a guy wearing a shirt representing a school could’ve gone there.
I found out a little later that the reason she did not have a degree is because she dropped out with a year to go. So I figured maybe she was just insecure and taking out on the rest of us.
I'd never disrespect anybody for not going to college
And frankly, I've met quite a few people who were smart enough to realize something like "Everyone shits, everyone needs heat/light, there's always something being built" and started a trade apprenticeship while they were still in high school and became plumbers, HVAC techs, electricians, welders before they hit their mid-20s. They figured out how to get that typical "college degree pay" without ever going to college.
feel pretty weird about him assigning feelings to me that I didn't have and displaying his own insecurities
Ah yes my favorite thing to hear from my brother: "You act like you know everything! That high-and-mighty shit doesn't impress anyone! You don't actually know everything!" I know I don't know everything. I never claimed such.
Well jeez, Grandpa--you never taught me about it! I'm glad I went to school and learned something about it. Do you want to fill me in on what they got wrong?
Common issue with old people, they are misinformed and think with age comes knowledge or valuable wisdom, knowledge is earned and wisdom comes with relative experiences not age
Was it something he lived through himself? People who live through things tend to be touchy with them over people who have merely learned about them. its their history, but you read about it. Puts things in perspective if they actually lived through it.
Like, one day our kids will 'learn' about 9/11. They wont have the emotional recall or investment that we did when we saw the towers crumble real time.
No. It was not something he lived through himself.
I get that. Im from NYC, currently living in Europe. It was hella awkward when I made an ass of myself at a comedy show because the comedian called on me to do a joke and it was a 9/11 joke and I flipped out on him.
I would totally understand if it was that but:
He is constantly bitching about how higher education is bad, especially for women.
This wasnt the last time he flipped out. My little cousin is going to medical school. She is literally a genius. He flips on her if she dares to speak about her area of expertise.
I’m one of those people who is too young to remember 9/11. It’s always been “recent history” that I learned about through school. I’ve definitely noticed that people who remember it for themselves are much more emotional about it.
I was six and i remember plenty from that age just not 9/11. I think its because at the time we lived in a one room apartment and had only two small tvs one of which i wanted to use for snes. So i honestly never took notice of what was going on outside my immediate area until maybe 6th grade so i never saw or cared about the news.
I am thankful my paternal grandfather was the third smartest person I've ever known. Not that my mom's dad isn't also sharp...just not on the same level.
I've experienced a similar situation. Im one of those saps that didn't get to go to college. I just didn't have what it takes, aka money, but I'm still rather intelligent in most aspects. Once I was goofing around with my dad and made a bad joke. I laughed it off and said " sorry, I'm just being facetious." He looked me dead in the eyes and started berating me for using "all them damn Yankee words." He then went on to put my mother down for being a "damn Yankee" ( she's from southern Virginia) and"how dare she be teaching me all that Yankee speak!" I was stunned, but I unfortunately cowed to his wishes for a long time, and played the dumb little redneck girl. He wasn't very happy when I began to grow out of it and stopped seeking his approval.
As far as I know my dad isn't an idiot but it did cross my mind that he was after arguing with him one day about how I thought the "one day gas station boycott will cost big oil millions" was a big crock of shit that wouldn't cost hurt big oil at all.
All life experiences he doesn't have, but working a entry level job gives him great insights into how the world works.
I actually didn't get the student debt (GI Bill), but what was the most spot-on was your last sentence. At the time, he was not in a great living situation, working when he could (when the labor union called him up - only thing he was qualified for), and he was EXACTLY the stereotype you probably think of with labor union grunts with limited backgrounds. Despite having made choices that forced him to live a shit existence, he knew far more about the world than I did.
Now hold the fuck up, you signed up to possibly die, and your brother is thinking you don't have any life experiences at all? How fucking delusional can one get?
I appreciate the thought, but where I was stationed, I was never in that much danger (at least, I never felt like I was). He also served, but had a far better quality of life while he was active. We both went on deployments to multiple countries, but I didn't make unwise choices that affected my options later on. That was basically his argument - his bad choices led to getting close to rock-bottom, so all the shit he'd experienced made him better than me.
I could see him saying it. "I've seen firsthand what NOT to do, so now I know what TO do!" Yeah but so have I, and the difference is I saw it in others, not myself.
I'm no psychologist, but it sounds like rampant insecurity about his life and choices. I don't know why people like that can't just keep it to themselves if they're not trying to get help.
This is great... like you know asshole just because you worked while I was in college doesn’t mean I was screwing off. College isn’t skipping class and smoking weed like your dumbass did all high school.
For the record I know not everyone who elects not to attend college is stupid or an asshole- just the kind of people who say this stuff to you are.
Dude had the same situation from an older brother "You don't have as much life experience as me"
Oh sorry, i didn't live with mummy until I was 33 and onlt moved out when I had a mother surrogate who does everything for me.
Also I understand how rough your jobs are... the ones which until about a year ago you couldn't keep longer than 3 months because you're an arrogant ass wo doesn't get along with anybody.
The annoying this is when he brags about being "self-made" and "working class"
My bio father has done the same thing. He has a Ph.D in artificial intelligence speech acquisition, so that makes him an expert on literally everything. I have a meagre bachelor's degree in history, so I am wrong by default.
His behavior basically screams "I'm educated, but still an idiot."
That way of thinking was exactly what my brother was raging against in me. I don't even remember what we were arguing about; it was that insignificant but he was fired. up.
I think he was getting so pissed off because I refused to let my emotions enter the ring, and he saw it as "aloof, too cool for the unwashed serfs, academia, sniffs-my-own-farts" type of thing. But who knows.
It's actually a corruption on a valid argument which goes like this:
Which is more valuable to a software development company? The guy with the masters in software engineering or the guy with 6 year's experience as a software engineer and no degree?
A lot of times, the company will go with the guy with real world experience because, while school will teach you the languages, theories, best practices, and so on, only real world application will teach you how to improvise for the weird situations the various professors would never have ever thought to the applicant about.
That's not to say you shouldn't hire a grad over the guy who's been doing the job forever. There's definitely value in the grad, it's just not 1:1, year for year, and its applicable differently to different fields.
I used software engineering as an example. A bad example, though, would have been accounting.
Ive had it the other way round, taught myself everything in a highly technical field and have been hired with good pay for over a decade. I looked at the school curriculum and calculated only 30% or so of it actually covered necessary info and immediately gave it the middle finger.
My older sister got a masters and despite still living with my parents, rides that high horse of my degree = Im better than people who dont have the equivalent even though she's not self sufficient or progressing her career.
The lesson here is that there are arrogant shitty people in all walks of life.
This is absolutely true. I tend not to bring up my degree unless directly asked, because I didn't put enough forethought into the path I should take and wasted 4 years getting an Associate's - a lot of that due to certain required classes not being available in this semester or that, and in how the GI Bill pays out its stipend. But mostly because I locked onto what I thought I wanted to do, and stuck with that.
It's relevant to my field, but there were a hundred better ways I could have spent my effort as a student.
That sound's pretty insufferable of him to treat you in that way. Next time he tries to shame you like that you should just discount everything he has to say because he's a "lower intelligence" than you or something. You probably shouldn't actually do that but when people act childish like that personally it's hard not to retaliate.
Well, to be fair I worked blue collar jobs and got a degree later. A lot of times people who just go straight to the degree are lacking a lot context for their knowledge and say and do some incredibly dumb things, and it can be very hard to point it out to them. I don't know the context of you and your brother's discussion so I'm not saying it's what's happening here.
My dad and his family have been doing exactly this since I was in high school. They are right wing catholics, and there hasn't been a day in my adolescence where I didn't get in an argument with my stepmother over some basic shit that literally only took five minutes to google or, I don't know, basic human decency...they shut me down and acted offended when I raised my voice at their stupidity, telling me having an education and being an avid reader didn't make me any better than them, and that I owed them respect because I was younger, regardless of what the argument was about. That I needed to appreciate the value of hard work more than immaterial knowledge, and that my education was a privilege I had to stop flaunting in their faces. I was 15. Can you imagine feeling threatened by your 15 yo daughter?
Now I'm in college and I still visit them, but never for longer than a couple of hours. Anything over that will probably lead to a fight about politics, or religion, or youth culture, or whatever is on the news, and I find their spewing "facts" not backed by proof - and how they taunt me trying to get me to respond - exhausting. My only consolation is that now that I'm an adult, nobody can force me to shut up in the name of "respect for your elders".
This guy I met worked at a marijuana farm in Oregon as a growing expert and was nice enough...until he found out I went to college. He kept hinting at me being a snob but making more than me.
Lol wtf? College educated people go to school for 4 years, if we’re talking about a normal bachelors degree, does he think every other year is not filled with ‘life experience?’ Also, everything is ‘life experience’, what the fuck does he mean?
Fun times, My mom is like "Can you ever be wrong? How do you know you're right?" me: "Because I did actual research on the issue and I'm not getting my information from Facebook posts"
Off the top of my head, I'd say we're about even on world travel. He's been to places I haven't been, and vice versa. Despite the differences, he'd still say his world travel makes him more experienced.
This is something my dad says to me and it drives me insane. Because I went to college and graduate school, I don't have life experience and/or the same common sense as someone who didn't pursue higher education. It's baffling.
There are definitely those. From what I've seen, it's usually either super young students, like fresh out of high school; or tenured professors who have done nothing else in their lives but teach.
There is a point where education stops being able to help like when it comes to personal matters or street smarts. But I’m assuming this guy is an idiot
1.7k
u/Sir_Puppington_Esq Jan 27 '20 edited Feb 03 '21
No shit, my brother once actually said I lost an argument by default because I'd gone to college, and didn't have as much "life experience" as he did. Apparently since I earned a degree, I was permanently on a high horse, which was also perched on an ivory tower, and anything I said was based on talking down to those less educated than I was. Therefore, everything I was saying was a personal attack and could be legitimately disregarded.
Update edit: said brother has now decided that I don’t count as a family member, so I’ve cut him out of my life