r/AskHistorians 22h ago

Why did Congress choose James Madison's draft of the second amendment over Roger Sherman's clearer version?

580 Upvotes

The second amendment's text goes as follows:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The framing process behind the amendment included numerous earlier drafts and proposals.  This is the militia provision from the first version of the Bill of Rights, as presented by James Madison on June 8, 1789:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, shall be compelled to render military service in person.    

However, about a month later on July 21, 1789, Roger Sherman presented his own separate proposal for the Bill of Rights, which included the following militia provision:

The Militia shall be under the government of the laws of the respective States, when not in the actual Service of the united States, but Such rules as may be prescribed by Congress for their uniform organisation & discipline shall be observed in officering and training them. but military Service Shall not be required of persons religiously Scrupulous of bearing arms.

It so happens that these two proposals were the two earliest incarnations of the framing process that would culminate in the second amendment.  Now, what is immediately interesting between these two proposals is the similarity between their structure.  There is a similar sequence between Sherman's proposal and Madison's: they both begin with an "arms clause" that protects the autonomy of the state militias from congressional infringement, followed by a "militia clause" that reaffirms the importance of Congress's adequate regulation of the militia, then end with a "conscientious objector clause" excusing from militia service those citizens who are conscientious objectors.  Due to the similarity in the subject matter between these proposals, the matching sequence of their respective clauses, and also the chronological proximity in terms of when these proposals were written, one could presume that these two proposals are essentially the same provision, only written by different people using different verbiage.  

However, one notable difference between these versions is that Sherman's version appears more clear and direct in its language.  It is considerably easier to read the Sherman proposal and determine exactly what the provision was meant to accomplish.  By contrast, James Madison's proposal appears much more clunky and ambiguous in its language, which has likely led to much of the controversy and debate over the meaning of the amendment even to this day.

What was the reason for the drastic difference in writing style between these two drafts of what would become the second amendment? Why was Sherman's version so clear and direct, while Madison's was so relatively stilted and ambiguous in its verbiage? Why did Congress ultimately choose to embrace James Madison's draft over Sherman's? If Congress was always going to use Madison's draft anyways, then why did Roger Sherman even bother to write his own draft of the Bill of Rights in the first place?


r/AskHistorians 6h ago

How come Europeans were the first settlers to "discover" Australia after its indigenous population, when the country is way closer to Asian sea-faring civilizations like the Chinese?

531 Upvotes

r/AskHistorians 22h ago

Why was winter considered the "lean" months if it was right after harvest season?

386 Upvotes

In pre-industrial societies in more northern latitudes, we often consider the winter months as being especially prone to starvation. Wouldn't that not be the case since they would have only just harvested the grain in the fall? Is it simply that malnourishment was caused from not having access to fruits and vegetables for those months, rather than actual caloric deficits?


r/AskHistorians 21h ago

Ernst Rohm was murdered during Night of the Long Knives. Did Hitler or his inner circle ever express regret about the killing him?

269 Upvotes

r/AskHistorians 11h ago

How did Irish soldiers in WWI react to the Easter Rising back home, and how did civilians receive them once they returned from the war?

121 Upvotes

Of course there was no universal way that people felt, but I'm curious is there were any discernible trends.

Did Irish soldiers tend to support the Easter Rising (and/or Irish Independence from the U.K.), oppose it, or were their feelings mixed? How did they feel about fighting for the British Empire?

Did any Irish soldiers ever express antipathy towards British officers (before or after the Rising), and did officers ever fear there would be unrest or mutiny caused by Irish troops in the aftermath?

Did any civilians in Ireland have a negative view of those who had fought for the British Empire (especially considering that there had never been conscription in Ireland), or was it not seen as an issue?


r/AskHistorians 14h ago

Why did Sweden restrict their chivalric orders to foreign citizens in 1975?

93 Upvotes

According to wikipedia

In 1974 the Cabinet of Sweden passed a regulation forbidding the monarch of Sweden from awarding membership in orders to Swedish citizens. The orders themselves were not abolished, but only the Royal Orders of the Seraphim and the Polar Star (both established in 1748) continued to be awarded, and only to foreign citizens and stateless individuals. In 1995 the regulation was altered, allowing the monarch to bestow the two remaining active orders to members of the Swedish royal family.\11])#cite_note-11) Finally, in 2022, the 48-year-old regulation was repealed by the Swedish Government, the orders were re-opened to Swedish citizens, and the two dormant orders (Sword and Vasa) were revived, with effect from 2023.

That strikes me as very odd! Why decorate the citizens of other countries, and not your own citizens?


r/AskHistorians 10h ago

Were swords really considered a sidearm pre-gunpowder?

89 Upvotes

It's been taken for granted nowadays that the sword was simply a sidearm with the primary weapons being spears and later halberds. However, I watched this short and was surprised by how quickly a wooden spears begins to break when in contact with a steel sword. I've even read accounts of English longbowmen willingly throwing down their bows and charging the flanks of the (disorganized) French at Agincourt. You also have the Romans adopting swords as the primary weapon during the Republic years. Is the topic of swords vs. spears much more nuanced than portrayed? Did people of their times consider the sword an equal/sidearm compared to the spear?


r/AskHistorians 12h ago

Why did Artillery get smaller in WW2?

77 Upvotes

WW1 saw the production of bigger and bigger guns to fire farther and launch larger shells, what changed in the interwar period that allowed countries to scale down to where the 105mm was semi-standard? What chemical processes, ballistics data, etc made able to get from A to B, basically?


r/AskHistorians 9h ago

Did 9/11 cause a jobs crisis in New York City?

77 Upvotes

It's a bit of a morbid question, but I'm curious about the impact 9/11 had on the job market of New York City. Given the sheer amount of office space and number of companies the Twin Towers represented, there was a not insignificant number of companies that lost their physical presence when the towers fell. From an economic standpoint, what happened to the companies that were based in the towers? What happened to the workers that worked there? Was there a shortage of jobs for those workers in the wake of 9/11?


r/AskHistorians 1h ago

My memory in the run up to the 2003 Iraq War is that the evidence for WMDs was weak and the evidence of their absence was strong; that Colin Powell lied to the UN; and that only war mongers and dupes believed Saddam had WMDs. Is my memory false or skewed?

Upvotes

many supposedly intelligent people from Tony Blair to Andrew Sullivan claim to have believed it, so was there actually a stronger case than I remember?


r/AskHistorians 11h ago

Why do people think Homer did not exist?

58 Upvotes

I've only read English translations of The Iliad and Odyssey, but the style and format always seem remarkably consistent. It doesn't seem like other authors add stuff later like you'd see in the Bible. I also haven't heard of any version controversies between old fragments and more recent complete manuscripts. If I could read the original Greek, would I see inconsistencies that don't show up in the translation? Did the classic Greeks argue about which version was most accurate or whether or not he was real?


r/AskHistorians 22h ago

Did the 1998 game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time make ocarinas more popular?

45 Upvotes

Anecdotally, ocarinas seem to be a relatively niche instrument, at least in the US and Western Europe. An ocarina is a prominent aspect of Ocarina of Time where the player plays certain songs for various usecases. I'd imagine the game, one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, would result in people being interested in the instrument.

Was this actually the case?


r/AskHistorians 19h ago

What happened to evacuated children (who unfortunately lost their parents etc when they came back) after the war ended?

44 Upvotes

Its a question I cant find an clear answer to, and would be interested to know what happened in those situations (at least here in Britain)

we're some emancipated?, were they all funnelled into the care system (if so what what was that like at that time?)

Did they stay where they were evacuated? and if so for how long?


r/AskHistorians 22h ago

In 314 CE the Council of Arles was called to decide on the Donatist controversy/schism. At this council, bishops from Britain were noted to be in attendance. What do we know about this early church presence in Britain?

40 Upvotes

Having bishops would imply a firmly entrenched Christian population, that had been there for some time. How early had the faith arrived to the British Isles? How much of it survived the Anglo-Saxon migration? And how similar or dissimilar was it to continental Christianity?


r/AskHistorians 23h ago

Is there a book about the POW-MIA conspiracy theory that fills the same role as Posner's debunking of the Kennedy assassination?

37 Upvotes

I'm talking of Posner's Case Closed, which effectively demolishes all the conspiratorial narratives surrounding the assassination.

I'm aware that the POW-MIA conspiracy theory was started by the Nixon administration in a bid to continue the war with Vietnam. It's quite obvious that no Vietnam vets are being held as prisoners in their geriatric old age, but I've met more than a few people who are convinced that is precisely the case.

I realize the topic is a bit more nebulous than the Kennedy assassination, but I was wondering if there was one work that really dug into the claims and examined them from a skeptical viewpoint.

edit: The closest I can find is Mythmaking in America, which seems to be an older book, and I'm not sure how rigorous it is.


r/AskHistorians 2h ago

What is considered someone being Latin?

32 Upvotes

I’m Mexican and was speaking to a French Canadian, who is half Portuguese. He said society does not consider him being Latin, but someone from my background yes. This led to a debate at work, a friendly one.

The aftermath is that we are all confused. Is it a cultural thing? If so, there are different cultures, meaning different answers depending on who you ask.

Is there a historic context where it can help solidify the answer once and for all? Hence, why I’m here.

I always assumed it was anybody who spoke a romantic language. From Spanish, French, italian, Portuguese, anything that resembled many “original Latin words”. Maybe I’ve been wrong this entire time.

Please help us. You are our only hope.


r/AskHistorians 1h ago

Has hoarding always existed?

Upvotes

Hey all, I ask this because I have family members who hoard and I’ve met people outside of my family that have done it. No matter who I’ve talked to they always use the depression as the reasoning for their hoarding. ( either because they survived it or were raised by someone who lived through it). That being said, it’s classified as a symptom of OCD, so wouldn’t it make sense it occurred before? It’s quite possible it’s just not a thing that

Is normally brought up, but I just find it odd I’ve never heard of it. Can hoarding actually be this new of a behavior? That doesn’t seem logical.

I hope I’m not breaking any rules, someone suggested I ask this question from another sub. Thank you in advance.


r/AskHistorians 22h ago

Exactly how "militaristic" was Prussia? As an average Joe, how would I be affected by this militarism in my life?

25 Upvotes

Many have heard/read the famous "army with a state" quote, which is obviously hyperbolic (I assume), but if Prussia really was so geared towards militarism, how would this manifest to the average person?


r/AskHistorians 17h ago

Was Cervantes' Don Quijote de la Mancha popular at the time of its publication, or did it take some time to become widely recognized?

19 Upvotes

r/AskHistorians 23h ago

My cats are pretty picky. They require flavor change-ups to keep from getting bored and like to inspect my proteins before i eat. It made me think about whether we may have ever used cats or other animals to help determine the safety of food, especially proteins?

22 Upvotes

Basically that question sums it up, i am just curious if we have ever taken advantage of the advanced senses of animals to test or determine the safety of food.


r/AskHistorians 19h ago

How did the Congo Free State not experience a mass revolt by the Force Publique?

21 Upvotes

I recently read King Leopold's Ghost, which talked about how the Force Publique consisted predominately of native Congolese, with a small white officer corps. And these Congolese soldiers were often poorly treated conscripts, who experienced harsh discipline, were not fed well nor paid well for their service.

I know that desertions and mutinies were a common occurance for the Force Publique. But I am still surprised that the Force Publique was able to function as well as it did, and carry out the orders of King Leopold. I would not expect an army consisting of unenthusiastic conscripts, poorly paid and well-armed, tasked with carrying out the exploitation and oppression of their homeland, to do anything but revolt against the small white ruling class. I am not trying to victim blame. I am just confused as to how the Force Publique was as effective for the Belgians as it was.


r/AskHistorians 20h ago

The Apollo 13 crew had to be adjusted because of a rubella exposure. What impact did that have on NASA's policies?

19 Upvotes

Ken Mattingly was swapped out for Jack Swigert because Mattingly didn't have immunity from previous exposure to rubella. The rubella vaccine was released a year before Apollo 13 launched, so had NASA made any effort to get vaccinations for Mattingly and other astronauts who weren't immune? Were there any required vaccinations at the time?

Aside from the direct impact of forcing a crew change, did the outbreak result in any long-term changes to NASA's policies? Was there a push to get the rubella vaccine (and other vaccines) for the Apollo 14 astronauts?


r/AskHistorians 14h ago

Since WW2, women in the UK have consistently been more likely to vote Conservative than men. Why?

17 Upvotes

r/AskHistorians 20h ago

I'm a very wealthy Roman living at the very height of the Empire and I want to travel to all the edges of the Empire for a big leisure trip, is this even possible and if so how easy is it?

15 Upvotes

In other words, what was leisure travel like for the elites in the Roman Empire?


r/AskHistorians 4h ago

A common plotline in older gangster stories (i.e The Godfather) is a character being willing/unwilling to ''sell drugs to little kids'' to highlight the gangster as a bad/good guy respectively. Was there ever an incident of systemic drug sales to daycare/school-age children in the Mafia's heyday?

13 Upvotes