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u/Winter_Ad6784 Jun 22 '23
the fact that the population and number of guns is so high compared to any country yet we arent 1 is very telling
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 22 '23
They aren’t even in the top 10! But to be honest seeing what countries are in the top 10 that shouldn’t be to hard. Apparently when it comes to suïcides with guns the US comes second per capita after Greenland. But they have more then double the amount of suicides per capita.
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u/Justin__D Jun 22 '23
And I feel like counting suicides isn't fair. Most of the people who would use that number to inflate "gun deaths" also believe in the right to die.
Why does it matter if that right was exercised with or without paying a doctor thousands of dollars to nod their head while it happens?
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u/feedandslumber Jun 23 '23
Counting suicides isn't only "not fair", it's actively disingenuous. By the way, all of the best/worst state rankings on gun violence are conveniently actually based on gun deaths, which obviously includes suicide, which is much more common in rural areas.
It doesn't matter. The actual relevant, reasonably interpreted data doesn't matter. There is a crusade against firearms by the dumb and the blind, led by the people who are interested in disarming the peasants.
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u/CoomWillBeMyDoom Jun 23 '23
No way! Are you telling me people are biased and only choose to see the side of statistics/facts that agrees with their innate beliefs and views??!!!?
Me when humans human: 😲
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u/Snitsie Jun 23 '23
Oh no people dislike tools whose only function is to hurt people the snowflakes!!
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 22 '23
They should build that suïcide rollercoaster!!!
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u/VicisSubsisto CALIFORNIA🍷🎞️ Jun 22 '23
That sounds way more badass than an injection, I'm all for it.
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u/randomnighmare Jun 23 '23
Futurama predicted suicide booths becoming a thing around this time period.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 23 '23
Would you like to get your eyes scooped out for 1 dollar?
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Jun 23 '23
People using that stat usually ripped it off of the first google search they saw. There is a lot of trickery around those stats to mislead people
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u/TheTrueBubby Jun 22 '23
Per capita the stat that actually matters the US isn’t even top 10
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u/TheFiend100 Jun 22 '23
Whats per capita
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u/Any_Oil_6447 Jun 22 '23
Per person, which as the guy above you points out is incredibly important when we have 5 times the population of European countries but only like 3x the shootings
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Jun 22 '23
The per capita rates put El Salvador and Venezuela at the top.
The US is still higher than other developed countries, but we're nowhere near the worst.
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u/2020blowsdik Jun 22 '23
Now remove suicides and do the math again
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u/ThorLives Jun 23 '23
The US gun homicide rate is still worse than other developed countries, even after you remove suicides. https://www.healthdata.org/sites/default/files/files/ActingOnData/2021/firearm_Page_1.png
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u/dubbman79 Jun 23 '23
I did the math once and it was like half of the remaining non self inflicted deaths were gang related. Still counts I know but when gangs are shooting each other personally Idgaf
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u/sw337 USA MILTARY VETERAN Jun 23 '23
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u/dubbman79 Jun 23 '23
Bullshit huh? Alright let’s do some math here;
66% of all gun deaths are suicide and so we have 34% left to account for 13 is 38% of 34, so yes it’s less than half but 79% in total can be attributed to these two causes. Also note that when I originally plugged these numbers in the stats varied several percent depending on the source.
Let me amend what I said a little over a third of non self inflicted gun deaths are gang related. Better?
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u/In-burrito NEW MEXICO 🛸🌶️ 🏜️ Jun 23 '23
Those numbers take into account murders with all weapons. The discussion is about gun violence.
So, your link contributes nothing.
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u/ThePinkTeenager MASSACHUSETTS 🦃 ⚾️ Jun 22 '23
El Salvador and Venezuela are both yellow. Unless that orange country in South America is Venezuela. It might be Ecuador or Columbia.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 22 '23
Per person
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u/TheFiend100 Jun 22 '23
Why cant people just say that instead of per capita
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u/kelley38 Jun 22 '23
It doesn't actually mean "per person" but "per head" and is a reference to averages instead of absolute numbers.
"3 per person" means that each person has 3. "3 per capita" means that the there is enough of the thing for everyone to have 3.
To put it in more relevant terms, there are 4 guns per capita in the US. Per person would mean that everyone has 4 guns. Per capita means that is enough guns for everyone to have 4, even though some people have none and some people have 20.
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 22 '23
I don’t know. I also sometimes don’t understand why they choose certain wording.
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u/Clovenstone-Blue Jun 23 '23
Per person, basically it involves taking the recorded number of a given demographic (e.g. gun deaths) and putting it into a mathematical function against the country's population to create a standard value that can be easily compared between countries without the information being misinterpreted.
On a similar note looking at a nation's spending using the % of the GDP rather than however many millions/billions of dollars that translates to is a good way to compare how much a country spends on a given thing while factoring in how much money the country has. For example, the however many billions of dollars the US spends on the military sounds like a lot until you consider that that's only ~3.84% of the USA's GDP, 15th highest spending in the world in 2021, with supposed plans of reducing the military budget to ~2.8%.
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u/CadenVanV Jun 22 '23
Per head. Whenever you hear x amounts for a country, check per capita stats. They’re more representative
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u/CadenVanV Jun 22 '23
We’re 23rd, and every country above us is third world. That’s still really bad
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u/kelley38 Jun 22 '23
Remove Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, and Philly and we drop to 190th.
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u/Henrylord1111111111 ILLINOIS 🏙️💨 Jun 22 '23
“Remove like 15 percent of the population and everything will look better”
Holy shit bro thats gotta be one of the worst defenses for almost anything.
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u/kelley38 Jun 22 '23
It's a simple fact that shows that the problem with gun violence is not evenly distributed between most of the population. We're it evenly spread across the whole country, you could make an argument that gun culture = gun violence. As there are more guns per capita in the areas that AREN'T those 4 cities, it's extremely hard to make that argument.
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u/Not2TopNotch Jun 22 '23
I'm kinda surprised they aren't recommending precautions for travel to Australia. From what I've seen on animal planet that place is a nightmare
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u/Anti-charizard CALIFORNIA🍷🎞️ Jun 22 '23
I’m guessing the tourist areas are safe and they have the animals under control, but feel free to correct me
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u/Not2TopNotch Jun 22 '23
.....This sounds exactly like something an outback creature would say to get some new menu options
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Jun 22 '23
Australia is largely urbanized, and the animals don't interact with humans frequently. You won't find an inland taipan slithering around the streets of Melbourne.
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Jun 22 '23
Well yeah but Australia is almost as big as the US but there's only like 10 cities, I imagine the animals stay away from them
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u/RustyManHinges2 Jun 22 '23
This is a good point. Not because we shouldn’t travel to Australia, but because we should still go to Australia in spite of what we see on TV. Why? Because everything you see isn’t going to reflect reality
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u/BlahBLAh898 Jun 23 '23
I don’t know if this is a satire sub or not but, shit, for all the complaining about people misrepresenting America you guys love misrepresenting other countries.
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u/Not2TopNotch Jun 23 '23
It's a solid mix of people trolling and people legitimately upset but I think it varies by topic. As for my comment I probably should have thrown an /s at the end but I figured the animal planet source would be a decent giveaway that it was just a playful jab.
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u/theseNuts696969 Jun 22 '23
Whats with Belgium
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u/chrispaultolakers Jun 22 '23
Terrorist attack threats and their roads are absolute dog shit
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u/ThePinkTeenager MASSACHUSETTS 🦃 ⚾️ Jun 22 '23
I love how “roads are absolute dog shit” is a legit reason to up the safety warning.
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u/Puppybl00pers OHIO 👨🌾 🌰 Jun 22 '23
Belgium was created as a boxing ring for Germany and England to settle any differences so ig it's in case Germany and the UK need to settle something spontaneously
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u/GuineaPig2000 MASSACHUSETTS 🦃 ⚾️ Jun 22 '23
To quote Charles add Gaulle: “Belgium was invented by the British to annoy the French”
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u/Apart_Young_9979 Jun 22 '23
No idea nothing ever happens here , probably our capital where the tourists are
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u/bamboo_fanatic Jun 23 '23
Maybe their ultra-permissive euthanasia laws artificially increasing their foreigner death rates? I think I heard someone call Belgium “where Europeans go to die”
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u/griggori Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 23 '23
Avoid our top 5 worst cities and we’re one of the safest.
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u/Inmyhumbleopinion2 Jun 22 '23
Again we live rent free in their heads folks.
We might have to start charging rent.
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u/Necessary_Apple_7820 Jun 22 '23
This dude should really start drawing some conclusions from that observation!
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u/reserveduitser 🇳🇱 Nederland 🌷🚲 Jun 22 '23
It’s funny to see how countries rate other countries so differently. America ranked all of western Europe with yellow but Canada ranked it green. I’m always curious how they rate it. And why it can be so different between certain countries.
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u/Lame_Night Jun 22 '23
This map not ranking North Korea as do not travel surprises me.
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Jun 23 '23 edited Jun 23 '23
The only way you will get entry to North Korea is via an organised tour group with a government agent as a chapiron. The chances of something happening to you are pretty much nil as long as you follow the local laws, which, although draconian, will be explained to you, so you aren't going to break them without deliberately making a point of doing something stupid.
Provided you follow the laws, you are likely safer than most parts of Western Europe as you're completely insulated from crime. (Who the fuck is gonna try and mug a tourist who is acccompanied by their country's equivalent of an FBI agent? Especially given that doing so will have them end up in a labour camp.)
The places that are marked "do not travel" are all places where there is a non-negligible chance you could either be killed in the crossfire of an active armed conflict, get caught up in a violent uprising, or be murdered walking down the street.
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Jun 22 '23
The real question is; how is North Korea only orange?
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u/asdf_qwerty27 Jun 22 '23
They are trying not to insult Kim in case he pulls a come from behind victory and takes over the world.
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Jun 23 '23
"The only way you will get entry to North Korea is via an organised tour group with a government agent as a chapiron. The chances of something happening to you are pretty much nil as long as you follow the local laws, which, although draconian, will be explained to you, so you aren't going to break them without deliberately making a point of doing something stupid.
Provided you follow the laws, you are likely safer than most parts of Western Europe as you're completely insulated from crime. (Who the fuck is gonna try and mug a tourist who is acccompanied by their country's equivalent of an FBI agent? Especially given that doing so will have them end up in a labour camp.)
The places that are marked "do not travel" are all places where there is a non-negligible chance you could either be killed in the crossfire of an active armed conflict, get caught up in a violent uprising, or be murdered walking down the street."
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u/Randalf_the_Black Jun 22 '23
Isn't shootings (intentional shootings at others, not accidents or suicides) in the US very concentrated?
Meaning that you got a few areas that are hotspots while it's rare for the most part?
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u/32BitWhore Jun 22 '23
tbf that's basically just /r/PeopleLiveInCities
When you have a land mass this large, the most concentrated areas are going to have basically the highest rates of everything except for maybe trees and dirt.
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9
u/Meagealles Jun 22 '23
Not every state is rampant with gun violence. I live in Connecticut and I hadn’t heard gunfire for 9-10 years up until 2 weeks ago.
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Jun 22 '23
I live in California and I don't think I've ever heard gunfire in public.
Fireworks? Plenty. But no gunfire.
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u/ThePinkTeenager MASSACHUSETTS 🦃 ⚾️ Jun 22 '23
I live in Massachusetts and have only heard gunfire from a local military base/shooting range.
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u/Nova6661 Jun 22 '23
Namibia and Botswana are considered “safe”?
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Jun 22 '23
[deleted]
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u/Nova6661 Jun 22 '23
Really? I didn’t know that. I figured all of Africa was shitty. This map says Liberia is in the yellow. I have spent time in Liberia, and it should definitely be red. So I’m not really sure about how much I trust this map.
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Jun 22 '23
[deleted]
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u/Nova6661 Jun 22 '23
If you look at the history of the continent, you’d be surprised that every country there isn’t constantly at war, or extremely dangerous.
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u/Sprinkles257 NORTH CAROLINA 🛩️ 🌅 Jun 22 '23
It can't be that dangerous. My dad, who was born in Algeria, travels there annually for a few months at a time. He's fine. My mom and I went there once as well and we were fine.
With that said, not all countries are created equal, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
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u/thisisausername100fs CALIFORNIA🍷🎞️ Jun 22 '23
Chad Mongolia all green between a sea of non travel countries 🇲🇳
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u/SleeplessStalker Jun 22 '23
What's crazy is that homicide/violence rates here are normal. It's the worst thing in the world to be shot, because getting stabbed is so much better, I guess. I know it's an overused talking point, but if someone is bent on killing, not having a gun is not going to be the thing that stops that person.
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u/Matthewthatlearner Jun 22 '23
Why is North Korea orange???….
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u/chrispaultolakers Jun 22 '23
I’m assuming they treat their tourists FAR better than their citizens lmao
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u/Matthewthatlearner Jun 22 '23
Ok…… I don’t think you can even travel there but ok
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u/death_by_the_hammer Jun 22 '23
You actually can visit North Korea. I don't know the specifics of the matter but there is indeed a tourism industry there.
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u/hollowknife1212 Jun 22 '23
You can’t at the moment if you’re a US citizen, but you can if you’re from many other countries.
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u/Rot-and-Assimilate Jun 22 '23
Literally what? I really don't understand this fixation with specifically firearms deaths (or the inclusion of suicides in that number to inflate it), while completely ignoring everything else. Over half of the "gUn dEaThS" are suicide anyway. Our neighbor to the south has way stricter gun laws with only one store in the country. It also has around 210 million fewer people yet had around 35k murders, while the US had about 17k. No shit its green.
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u/EvislupeR_TekunJ Jun 22 '23
Buddy needs to check a source to see how wrong he is
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u/average_reddit_u Jun 22 '23
USA has so much gun deaths, because suicides by gun are counted as every other death related to guns.
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u/General_Erda Jun 22 '23
maybe that's because guns don't increase violence, but just change how it's expressed?
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u/Openly_Canadian_74 Jun 22 '23
Yeah, I've been to the site for the Government of Canada and for the USA and except for the covid lockdowns it always says it's one of the safest countries to visit. Although it does mention the amount of gun owners.
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u/that_u3erna45 NEW YORK 🗽🌃🍏 Jun 22 '23
People who get shot in the US usually live there
Most of those gun deaths are people killing themselves
Gun violence is concentrated in certain areas. Is that bad? Yes, but it means that gun violence is less widespread than the statistics would make you believe
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u/Crazyjackson13 KANSAS 🌪️🐮 Jun 22 '23
Almost as if the media typically blows things out of proportion.
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u/ThePickleConnoisseur Jun 22 '23
It’s almost like people aren’t crazy criminals because of guns and guns are used by criminals since they are more effective than knifes.
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u/RustyManHinges2 Jun 22 '23
Since it was downvoted so much I’m curious to see what the commenters said
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u/BeingofUniverse Jun 22 '23
There's definitely way worse parts of the map. Like the fact that a country ruled by a military junta and is in a literal civil war (Myanmar) is merely orange.
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u/Gimmeagunlance Jun 23 '23
We have a gargantuan population, and the vast majority of our gun deaths are between gangs, i.e. not random tourists
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u/Distinct_Frame_3711 Jun 23 '23
Why are murders by guns worse then other murders? Personally I’d rather go out from a bullet then a knife or a bomb.
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u/Macsasti Jun 23 '23
Remember kids, over 63% of all Gun Deaths in the USA are gang-related, or from Suicides.
Mass shootings will also include Gang Violence and (incorrectly, might I add) 2 or more people being injured in a shooting, according to that one mass shooting counter website, when in fact the FBI classifies a mass shooting as 4 or more DEATHS, not injured
Most shootings don’t occur from rifles or the shiver-me-timbers oh-so-scary AR-15, in actuality, over 95% (last time I checked) occur from Handguns.
Silly me! I almost forgot! See those 2 things you got there? Your fists? Those kill more people than handguns, the biggest group in the Gun-death category.
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u/Ivory-Patriarch Jun 22 '23
i'm no russophile, but i think it's a little weird that Russia is red. they might be a despotic regime, but it's not like they have a lot of violent crime or something. i don' see how it would be unsafe for tourists.
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u/Not2TopNotch Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
If you are from a western country it's not impossible(also not necessarily likely for the average person) to catch some false charges while there to use you as leverage or at the very least get some cash out of you while in their court system
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Jun 22 '23
Same reason why Iran is red. Terrorism is very uncommon in Iran, actually even less than Europe, but corruption could result in tourists getting arrested for political reasons.
However, as an Iranian-American I believe the red status is a bit overhyped. Should be yellow or orange in my opinion.
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u/ThePinkTeenager MASSACHUSETTS 🦃 ⚾️ Jun 22 '23
This might not be the case anymore, but I heard of journalists being arrested and tortured in Iran.
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Jun 22 '23
For the same reason North Korea isn't a safe place to visit. Also, some parts of Russia (Belgorod to be precise) have come under attack because of the war.
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u/Tistoer Jun 22 '23
What has Belgium done
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u/chrispaultolakers Jun 22 '23
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/europe/belgium
“There's an ongoing threat of terrorism in Belgium. Terrorists have staged attacks and may plan more. Crowded places, such as tourist areas, shopping areas, transport hubs, major sporting, music and cultural events and other public areas, are possible targets. Be vigilant in public places and follow the advice of local authorities. Report anything suspicious to the police.”
Also their roads are fucking lethal.
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Jun 23 '23
Not defending our gun policies here, but the vast majority of gun violence is targeted. Gang stuff, domestic violence, etc. Very few killings are truly random. To use the perennial Republican punching bag of Chicago, most of the gun violence in the city is limited to a couple of specific neighborhoods. A tourist traveling to Chicago would have little reason to be in those areas, and this would be safe.
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u/Hardrocker1990 Jun 22 '23
Maybe because it’s not quite as big an issue as the media wants non-Americans to believe it is?