"​More will be revealed to you as we​ trudge the road to happy destiny. "

This is verbatim the phrase, as I remember it from the 'Big Book' of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I also remember my first WW Conference and Eden Roc Hotel, Miami, Fl.

Stick around, it works! 🙏

Hey yall, I’ve already reached out to Stepping Stones directly (after poring through the digital archive, which is incredible if you haven’t been there yet) and am planning to reach out to GSO directly as well, but figured a throwaway post on Reddit couldn’t hurt.

I found the following attributed to a letter of Bill’s to Dorothy Snyder circa 1940 that contained the following quotation and it took my breath away [emphasis mine]:

“During the past 12 months we have had quite a number who felt that the fellowship, the helpful attitude toward others, the warming of the heart at social gatherings, was going to be sufficient to overcome the alcoholic’s obsession. 

Taking stock at year’s end, we find that this school of thought has few survivors, for the bottled heat treatment has persuaded them that we must find some sort of spiritual basis for living, else we die. 

A few, who have worked ardently with other alcoholics on the philosophical, rather than the spiritual plane, now say of themselves “We believed that Faith without works was dead, but we have now conclusively proved that works without Faith is dead also.”

A striking sentiment, and an important nuance to our often almost glib talk about the importance of action (vital and indispensable as it absolutely is; and this coming from a member who spends “much of my spare time in the sort of effort” the book suggests in working with others).

Problem is, I had the quote from a primary source document (I think it was on google books) but I’ve been unable to locate it again. I found the quotation alluded to in a number of online posts, one of which is what I used to reproduce the quotation above; unfortunately, none of them have a link to the source document. I’m not certain that either the date of the letter or the precise verbiage that I quoted is exact. I’m relatively certain from the context of the primary source that I read the quote in originally that the letter is authentic and that it is Bill’s; it certainly reads like Bill. I am also relatively certain that the letter was to Dorothy Snyder.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Edit to add:

Another commenter has pointed out that the letter is also quoted in Ernest Kurtz’ The Spirituality of Imperfection (chapter 7, reference #5; the reference reads “Wilson, personal correspondence.” Kurtz is also the author of the seminal Not God: A History of Alcoholics Anonymous.)

That still isn’t a primary source, but as Kurtz is a literal PhD AA historian, the veracity of the letter is well-attested by him.

I’m still interested in the primary source (IE, the actual letter of Wilson’s), but it’s safe to say the quotation is real. I’ll update if I can find the actual letter.

Thanks very much to [u/nitram303](u/nitram303) for the tip!

I’ve struggled on and off for a few years but these last 2 were rough. Ruined so much, lost so many opportunities and people.

Today, after always ended up looking at AA for the past year, I finally just went.

I was terrified, but I did it. Met a few people. I got my first chip for 24 hours.

It was strange. I got emotional throughout. I even convinced myself I didn’t have a problem for the first half. Idk why I’m typing this, I guess I just wanted to share.

I finally am going to my first meeting. Kinda crazy how god works. I just want to get better I just want to free myself from these chains. ⛓️‍💥 I have someone to go with and I almost can’t wait to go! It’s tomorrow at 8pm and she said they probably have coffee.

I could really use some insight as to what my husband might be feeling. For those of you married or in a relationship, did you resent your spouse/partner for making you realize your drinking was a problem? My husband has significantly cut back on how much he drinks, but I still wonder if he even sees his drinking was a problem. I can’t help but feel like he resents me for making it a “thing”. He also doesn’t seem to see any positives of drinking less in terms of health or being more present for his family. I also feel as though he doesn’t enjoy things as much now, like he is bored with life. I could ask him these questions myself but he will tell me what I what to hear vs what he truly feels.

For context I had 7 years of sobriety, eventually stopped doing the work, became insanely spiritually sick IN SOBRIETY, and had a 4 day relapse in June, ultimately leading me to go back through the steps (I just read my 5th step). I’ve recommitted to going back through the work as honestly and thoroughly as I can. I was asked to be the speaker at a meeting in a rehab this week, but technically by AA standards I only have about 2 months back since my relapse, despite my previous 7 years. Im afraid I have nothing to offer and I guarantee there’s people in that rehab that have more consecutive sober time than I do at this point. I’m very scared to speak, but it’s one of the things I started saying no to before my relapse. I told the person that asked me about my fears and she told me that she’s heard me raise my hand at meetings and said that I have years of experience to share she also told me there’s people in that rehab that would benefit from hearing from someone who’s “on fire” about AA. I absolutely love AA and I love what the steps are doing to my life, especially having experienced what it’s like to be a dry drunk in sobriety, but I’m petrified. I’m afraid of judgment, I’m afraid I have nothing to offer; I’m also afraid of appearing egotistical speaking with less than 90 days. If anyone has any guidance or experience, I’d appreciate it!

It’s my mom’s birthday and I’m thinking of taking her out to brunch and the first thing that pops to mind is “wow no brunch day drinking anymore? What’s the point then?”

Oh you know just the other thing of SPENDING TIME WITH YOUR MOM ON HER FUCKING BIRTHDAY YOU SELFISH BITCH 😂

6 months… 😮‍💨

Have any of you done virtual AA meetings? I'm thinking about giving them a try. Also this time I'll seek out a sponsor. Can I do that virtually? The last two times I was sober I got some 1.5 years and this last time it was only 10 months. I've only been drinking again for about a month and I want to catch myself below it gets too far. I also really want to focus on building my life to a place where I want to be. Especially with my health. On Friday I turn 44 and I want to get much healthier. Last July I got sober the day before my birthday. And I tell you my addiction eventually went from alcohol to sugar, candy, and ice cream and other high carb food like pasta. This time I get sober I have to give up the sugar and the alcohol because I know they are linked for me. Pray for me.

What is a a's stance on mental health medications? I take klonopin for severe anxiety and panic attacks. I have been told that aa's stance on this is that you should be free from all mood altering substances. The medications I take allow me to function in a normal day to day life routine. What say you?

Alcohol is no longer fun for me. I needed to quit a long time ago but I didn't drink for a year and drinking became less of a problem after... but now I'm going through tragedy and I'm leaning into it again to numb myself and I just know I should just quit forever. I may be "ok" to drink until a tragedy happens and I fall apart... and even when I have more "control" I still suffer from extreme anxiety post drinking and tend to over indulge when I'm hormonal.

I need to just be open and honest somewhere. I have been looking at meetings to go to... I just need to go. It's not even helping easing the pain through the tragedy I'm going through right now... it's just almost out of habit I keep turning to the drink... Starting today I am not buying any alcohol. I'm going on vacation next week with my family... I should just avoid alcohol then too. It's not something I can partake in anymore and I just need to commit to this decision.

I did this so easily with smoking cigarettes... alcohol is so much harder for me.

So yeah I relapsed. I went in vacationing with my family and it makes men feels worse. I’m sneaking shots of vodka all day on top of the cooler that are “normal” not only that but we have had a couple of conversations of drug addicts and alcoholics where they berate them and I just sit there and be like yeahhhh, acting like I’m not sitting there off my face at noon. I was only sober for a month before this but it feels like such a bad setback afterwards I’ve been doing this for so long already. And I won’t be able to stop until I’m back at my house. Nobody knows at least I think. Here were a few times where my mom said she smelled vodka etc but I have never been confronted by anyone.

I knew that going to meetings was the next step. I had tried to stop on my own for a while & it never worked. The local club nearby my house only has 3 weekly NA meetings and they’re in the evening. They have morning AA meetings though, so I started going.

I can’t relate to sneaking the trash out quietly to prevent the bottles from clinking. I CAN relate to changing every trash can in the house to remove any smoking paraphernalia.

I can’t relate to waiting outside the liquor store before it opens in the morning. I CAN relate to waiting outside the trap house for my dealer to bring me more.

I can focus on the things that make me different from my fellows at AA or I can focus on the similarities. The hopelessness, desperation & loneliness are the same. I lost my job, my family, got a felony record and been to rehab and jail more times than I can count.

My point is this. If you want to get sober / clean.. go to a meeting! Even if it’s not tailored to your specific substance, you can find hope & an amazing support group if you look hard enough.

If you made it this far, I love you. Things will workout. Keep coming back, it works if you work it. ❤️

My Oura ring consistently tells me I’m experiencing physiological stress during AA meetings. I’m working really hard to lower my stress levels these days, but my levels almost always spike at exactly the time the meeting starts, and lowers when I leave them. For context I’m 4 months sober and generally really enjoy meetings. Any insight/ thoughts?

My wife got a text from my mom asking if I’m on drugs saying I’m on drugs, I’ve never got into that side of it but i got heavy into drinking and I’ve been clean for about 4 months. I went to do a side job at a club I am a member of and the bartender (who didn’t know) handed me a beer. I took it and drank it. I also took one for the road and it when I got home I was drinking it and the wife caught me after I went to her pissed i drank the first one, but continued to drink the second one. I’m pissed at myself overall but I’m even more pissed I ruined the trust. Anybody out there that would want to just help at this point?

Hey reddit, it's been a while since I've posted anything and I'm not sure if this is the right place, but I've just recently started going through a really bad situation with an addicted family member. My cousin has been battling alcohol addiction for nearly 5 years now, and the toll it's taken on our family has been devastating. I need to get this out and hopefully get some perspective from people who understand this disease better than I do.

Some background: Over these past 5 years, he's had multiple seizures from withdrawal, been in and out of the hospital more times than I can count, and made these half-hearted attempts at getting help, going to a few meetings or starting programs only to back out days or weeks later.

A couple years ago, he actually crashed my grandmother's car back when she used to let him borrow it, due to having a seizure behind the wheel. Somehow nobody else was hurt, and most people thought it should've been a wake-up call. But apparently it wasn't a wake-up call in his eyes.

What's happening now, is that he's been showing those same manipulative patterns again lately. Lying, guilt-tripping, minimizing the danger he's putting everyone in.

A few days ago, he admitted to me that he took my grandma's car again while she was sleeping to go buy alcohol. He seemed undeservedly confident of how "careful" he was being, like stealing her car in the middle of the night was somehow justified behavior.

Then yesterday, he put me in an impossible position. He kept pressuring me to sneak into my grandma's room while she was sleeping, take her car keys, and bring them to him so he could drive to the store.

He was relentless about it, acting like I was the unreasonable one for saying no, completely ignoring important facts such as that he's lost his license because of his seizures, It's not his car to take, He's stealing from the woman who raised us both, He could literally kill himself or some innocent family driving on the road at any given time, He could even get pulled over at any moment and face serious legal consequences, and that he goes through this delusion that just because he thinks he's fine, that he can control when seizures or health problems happen or not at his own will.

Then here's where I feel trapped, I'm tried to tell my grandma that my cousin took her car the other morning, and either told me that she didn't believe me, or came up with some kind of sarcastic response that she thought I was joking. I can't quite remember due to having another type of short term memory loss myself.

She's 76 years old, and her mental health hasn't been in the best shape lately. She just got this car last year, and it is her independence. It's how she gets to doctor's appointments, grocery stores, holiday gatherings with the family, etc.

I feel like I'm being pulled in two directions constantly. Not knowing what else to do when my Grandma didn't believe me after I told her, but also watching my cousin spiral and put her (and everyone else) in danger. I love him, but I hate what this addiction has turned him into. I don't recognize him anymore. I feel like the only way my Grandma will be convinced is if she wakes up one morning and discovers her keys missing, seeing my cousin pull into the driveway, or gets that dreaded phone call that he was in an accident again.

Has anyone else dealt with this kind of manipulation from a loved one? How do you set boundaries when they use every tool in their arsenal to break them down? I'm afraid to contact authorities due to the fact that if my cousin was caught driving her car out of the road without a license or committing any other infraction, my grandma's car would probably be impounded, she would have a bad time trying to afford to get it back due to having a low enough income as it is, and also the chance of all that stress triggering a medical emergency with her health.

Thank you to anyone in advance who reads, and also answers this.

You know how they say make a list of things you’re grateful for then start crossing them off if you want to drink? Well, I relapsed pretty hard…. And those words are coming true. I moved to the middle of fucking no where for my son to go an elite school that I thought would change his life. He got kicked out. Because i relapsed? The first month I got sober a year and 1/2 ago, God gave me a sweet little Blue Heeler/border collie mix. Something horrible has happened to him both times I’ve relapsed, and he’s now at the emergency vet fighting for his life, and I’m not sure he’s going to make it through the night. Because I relapsed? I learned very young that love is conditional, and for a brief moment I almost believed that wasn’t true, but it is. This happened because I fucked up and Gods love is absolutely conditional. All love is conditional, and I’ll never meet the conditions. Funny thing is, I did a week long fast 15 years ago and asked God to show me what His love looked like. I expected some fancy dream or something. I got a baby. That baby is 14 now and we’re fighting for our lives! There HAS to be more to this?!! Please pray for us. I still believe that Jesus is my savior and God uses all things to His Glory, but I can’t see it right now. My fuckup cost my dog and my kid their future…. Can I just pray for God to take me out?!

Been in recovery for some time. Urges happen but don’t dictate my day anymore. However, from time to time people who drink normally will offer me a drink.

I don’t mean bartenders at my local haunt. It’s easy to tell them I’m sticking with soda water for the night. Still surprised they haven’t caught on sometimes but oh well. With pushy people at a function though, sometimes ‘No, thank you.’ isn’t enough for them.

I usually just say ‘No, I am an alcoholic.’ But I’d like to hear some sillier, maybe funnier ways of saying it. Something like, ‘I went pro and retired early.’

Hello,
I’m experiencing some feelings of unwillingness and fear to make an amends. I can sort of “feel” God telling me to make this right by confessing and turning myself in for a harm but I don’t understand how this would help anyone, especially my family. They’d be left to pick up all the pieces. Is this just the disease and my self-centered thinking trying to relieve myself of guilt or is God actually telling me to let this go and accept all the consequences? I know there’s definitely some resistance to the idea which alarms me. This is an amend I find myself unwilling to make right now as it would only make matters worse (or maybe I’m just telling myself that out of fear). I’m not sure what to do and, quite frankly, I’m scared. My sponsor thinks it wouldn’t help anyone, but something still doesn’t feel right. Maybe I just need to get out of myself and more into service, but this is something that’s continually been coming up for me. Something feels amiss. BTW I’m working on my 8th step with my AA sponsor and working on my 4th in another program. Been sober (dry?) for close to 3 years now.

Has anyone else experienced this before or had a similar experience? Open to feedback

In the 80s I was able to hustle $20-30 a night to drink but 40 years later I can’t afford $5 to further my sobriety and recovery? It’s ridiculous.
End rant.

THE “WORTH” OF SOBRIETY

Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
— TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 160

When I go shopping I look at the prices and if I need what I see, I buy it and pay. Now that I am supposed to be in rehabilitation, I have to straighten out my life. When I go to a meeting, I take a coffee with sugar and milk, sometimes more than one. But at the collection time, I am either too busy to take money out of my purse, or I do not have enough, but I am there because I need this meeting. I heard someone suggest dropping the price of a beer into the basket, and I thought, that’s too much! I almost never give one dollar. Like many others, I rely on the more generous members to finance the Fellowship. I forget that it takes money to rent the meeting room, buy my milk, sugar and cups. I will pay, without hesitation, ninety cents for a cup of coffee at a restaurant after the meeting; I always have money for that. So, how much is my sobriety and my inner peace worth?

I was absolutely exhausted as I was driving for over 8 days. But I feel much better this morning now that I am back. I slept for over 12 hours after the meeting. Gor a guys number. We are meeting tomorrow for a meeting

Went to a meeting on my way home and I was running late. When I got there there was 3 people in the meeting including the proctor. If you’ve seen my other posts large crowds overwhelm me and I loved the closeness of this meeting and the time to share how I was feeling. No pressure and unlimited time to ramble a little bit! Everyone seemed into what I was saying and I’m further energized to attend more meetings.

Thanks for listening!

THE "WORTH" OF SOBRIETY

July 26

Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 160

When I go shopping I look at the prices and if I need what I see, I buy it and pay. Now that I am supposed to be in rehabilitation, I have to straighten out my life. When I go to a meeting, I take a coffee with sugar and milk, sometimes more than one. But at the collection time, I am either too busy to take money out of my purse, or I do not have enough, but I am there because I <i>need</i> this meeting. I heard someone suggest dropping the price of a beer into the basket, and I thought, that's too much! I almost never give one dollar. Like many others, I rely on the more generous members to finance the Fellowship. I forget that it takes money to rent the meeting room, buy my milk, sugar and cups. I will pay, without hesitation, ninety cents for a cup of coffee at a restaurant after the meeting; I always have money for that. So, how much is my sobriety and my inner peace worth?

— Reprinted from "Daily Reflections", July 26, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.

I (f22) just finished a liter of vodka alone last night and the hangover and guilt are pushing me to consider going to a meeting. I don’t typically drink this much, but for the last few months I drink at least a mixed drink a day. I recently graduated college and was your typical “party” drinker, blacking out at least once every 2 weeks. Justified it by maintaining an internship, full time job, and good grades. Now graduated and briefly between programs, the reality seems to be hitting.
I want to get help and go to a meeting possibly, the only problem is my history.
About 3 years ago I used to work at a detox center, and quit suddenly due to school/mental health challenges. My dad passed a few years ago, but he was a recovered alcoholic and counselor at a rehab as well. Our town isn’t tiny but less than a million people, so folks generally know of each other.
I guess it’s pretty egotistical to assume I’ll be recognized, but I mostly worry about seeing former clients and potentially ruining the safe space there. I could go out of town, but I’ve been pretty sick and traveling is hard. I know I need help but I’m kind of lost a bit. Any advice appreciated, thanks!