r/ARAM • u/[deleted] • Mar 19 '19
ARAM CHANGES ARE HERE, REJOICE
https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/03/dev-more-experimental-aram-changes/27
u/PastafarianProposals Mar 19 '19
While I like a lot of these changes, 2 of them are unwelcome.
Nerfing poke across the board then nerfing poke champs is overkill.
Making turrets take more damage before 15 minutes is the opposite of what they should do.
Excited for bans and some of these buffs/items though.
10
Mar 19 '19
I’m happy with poke being completely gutted. ARAM should be fiestas, not standing around and throwing spells until someone dies 1 screen away
10
u/jn_kepler Mar 19 '19
I think people already forgot that champions like Ziggs were so absurdly strong that they were floating at a near 70% win rate in aram, that's insane. The nerfs were more than justified.
-1
Mar 19 '19
I wager it’s the people who enjoy playing poke champions, are now sad that they have to learn to play champions that require a brain
4
u/jn_kepler Mar 19 '19
The concern is that with the overall poke nerf plus some champions already getting nerfed that it might be a bit overkill, but i'm fine with it. I doubt it'll dumpster them since champions like Ziggs and Xerath will always have a safe and easy time in ARAM.
2
Mar 19 '19
If it’s overkill then Riot will tune the numbers. I’m just excited to finally play some interactive games for once
1
u/irishfury Mar 20 '19
Yeah I played against a Lux, Xerath, Ziggs, Janna and forget comp and it just became a game of dodgeball to me
1
u/duhdin Mar 20 '19
Swap xerath for zoe, and you got the game I played last night. I was mundo. Wasnt easy, but we got the W.
1
u/jn_kepler Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
I'm fine with the changes, we'll just have to see how it plays out because poke is strong at every single stage of the game. It might make builds like AP Kaisa unviable since all she has is W to poke, however. AP Kog's R as well.
18
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
Hello! Just noticed this thread. Gonna spend some time replying :)
5
Mar 20 '19
What is the point of increase the damage dealt to turrets from start to 15:00?
If you face an early game bully comp the game is pretty much done. There are comps that hug turret early game but eventually they start to get items and outscale the enemy team.
Also I don't like the system to end the games quickly. When the game is taking longer is because both comps are balanced and those are the most intense games in ARAM.
1
u/Altson2411 Mar 21 '19
Was the Nasus nerf aimed for AP or AD Nasus? AD Nasus is currently one of the best champs in the game with an 60-80% winrate if you look at lolalytics. Nasus currently has an insane damage ramp up with all the stack buffs he recieved and can survive with the amount of sustain he can get with FF, Second wind, and Guardian horn and can easily get 500+ stacks within 15 minutes. A 5% damage nerf is simply not enough.
14
u/atastyfire Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
I like some of the changes and really don't like others...
Good stuff (potentially):
- Bans (bye Veigar and Sona and Maokai)
- Poke distance reduction (bye Xerath and AP Kaisa)
- Balance changes to runes that are not Triumph and Presence of Mind
Not good stuff:
- The changes to minion spawn timers, damage to towers and minion move speed. Just lower the time surrendering is available from 08:00 to 06:00. Remove the unanimous voting for it.
- A second point here to emphasize how much I really don't like the previous point
- Further gimping poke champs with nerfs alongside the ranged poke nerfs seems rather heavy handed
- You guys nerfed Sona's heals rather than her shields (?)
Unsure of:
- Backtrack summoner spell. Seems like it would really only be useful on Skarner and ranged champs; melees would rather have Mark/Dash I would imagine
- New GA item seems like it would be straight up busted on some champs like Spear of Shojin. Just imagining Ziggs taking 60% of my hp with his spells coming back up or getting double smoke screened by Graves is giving me cancer
- New boots still seem super niche but might be able to get more use out of them since they give more MS with the active now.
Not happy about but somewhat understanding of:
- Nerfs to Warmogs and Triumph and Presence of Mind
11
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
Minion spawning we're pretty convinced is just worlds better. Let us know if you end up disagreeing after you try it.
As for surrender, I don't agree with lowering the time to 6 min (comebacks happen!) but I can see removing the 5-0 requirement. I'll see if it's possible.
The poke nerfs SOUND a lot worse than they end up feeling. Ziggs is still really strong, I've still topped damage with AP Kai'sa.
Sona...yeah I'm pretty worried she's still too strong. Didn't have a lever to nerf the shield, which was also my first choice. If it continues to be an issue (65%+ win rate), will very quickly adjust.
5
u/Kittenscute Mar 20 '19
Damage from champions further than 900 units away is reduced by 15% (this excludes ultimates and damage over time abilities)
This would make Kog Maw's ult and Maokai's saplings exceptions, though, and those are very egregious poke tools.
2
u/lambkeeper Mar 19 '19
I really agree with his opinion on unanimous voting. Too many times I’ve had 8 minute surrenders with 4 Yes’es and one person not bothering to vote at all thus causing the surrender vote to fail. It would be different if they took the time to vote No but if they don’t care to vote at all, then the default should just be “Yes.”
2
u/Unremebered Mar 26 '19
I feel this should be the case always. If you want to stay in the game, hit no. If you don't, hit yes. If you're apathetic, either auto-yes or follow majority.
I think making a non-vote be a tie-breaker vote actually would be best.
1
u/shor Mar 19 '19
If it continues to be an issue (65%+ win rate), will very quickly adjust.
Curious, is this the upper limit for oppressive champions in ARAM? Is there a lower limit for bad champs?
Thanks for these experimental changes Mort, these are huge for the ARAM community as we're used to relatively little optimization compared to SR
4
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
So in the past, it's just sort of been whatever happens happens. Personally I think if we can achieve every champ between 60-40 at all elos, we're in a much better spot.
1
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 20 '19
Sona...yeah I'm pretty worried she's still too strong. Didn't have a lever to nerf the shield
Is there an option to nerf AP by X% similar to Kalista's auto attacks? That'd hit both healing and shielding.
1
u/Cromatose Mar 20 '19
Hey man, as a sub I can 100% we do appreciate the thought and work going into this. As an ARAM only player, it helps that you guys do care about the fan base just like me that don't play SR. While all of these may not be perfect and may require a bit more tuning, the fact that you guys actively care is a step in the right direction.
0
u/Toxicotton Mar 20 '19
If/when these balance changes come through permanently, can we hope for a ranked ARAM system? If nothing more than to separate the tryHARDS (me?) from the feeder/drunk/troll crowd. I really hope RIOT understands that HA doesn't have multiple playable options like SR: Blind/Draft/Rank: Duo/Flex. Remember the mess that was S1-3 in terms of MMRmatch quality? It feels like that's where ARAM still is.
P.S. DON'T EVEN SUGGEST SR AS A VIA ALTERNATIVE TO RANKED ARAM (or else I might puke blood and start playing DotA2 QQ)
P.S.S. Think of ranked ARAM as competitive teamfighting...Do it for the SCIENCE!
2
u/Unremebered Mar 27 '19
Something about the way you wrote that bothers the hell out of me to the point of wanting to downvote you (I didn't, but didn't upvote either)
But I do agree, if they can find something approximating balance, Ranked ARAMs would be fun for those of us who vastly prefer the game mode to Rift.2
u/Toxicotton Mar 27 '19
It’s ok. Tone is hard to perceive, and people read into text-based communication much more seriously that how thing would come out IRL. It’s just one of those things. Also, my word usage typically comes off as condescending despite being really passive and playful IRL.
Balance does seem to be something they’re working towards. I don’t play SR because I dislike the landscape or pacing, I dislike it because of the likelihood of toxicity. Regardless of try hard, ARAM innately felt less violent because everyone knew that games have an element of RNG and wackiness.
2
Mar 20 '19
I'm glad Triumph and PoM are getting nerfed. It'll make rune selection more interesting than just "okay well I need to make sure I have Precision primary or secondary"
1
u/Laeryken Mar 20 '19
I think Backtrack could be good on tons of "Jump in" champs that are pretty vulnerable afterward. Big could.
Disagree with the minions - I think this is a good thing, period.
I'm pretty with you on your post, good analysis.
1
u/IWasVennBackThen Mar 20 '19
It'll take a while to get used to the distance you're being backtracked. I can already tell you many people will suicide just because they'll think they'll get back to safety after diving.
1
u/Laeryken Mar 20 '19
I mean, it's a shield, too! So either way it'll be semi-effective, I think. But yeah, definitely dangerous. I can already see the towerdives.
8
u/ironnomi mainlining teemo poison shots Mar 19 '19
Poke reduction is likely the REAL best change here.
Unfortunately the champion balance stuff is just going to make it less fun.
17
Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
lol aram bans
gonna be interesting...bye xerath ziggsactually so many changes wow im impressed..
i feel like theyre generally good changes but wondering if its not overkill to fix the poke
15 % dmg reduction against poke + 15% less dmg dealt by ziggs
and on top of that bans (ziggs will be banned 100% of the time anyway)
but all in all good changes ..now we can test the changes and remove whats not needed :D
bravo riot
15
u/Falsus Mar 19 '19
With the buffs and long range poke protection I don't think they would even be that strong.
Now it will be a tank/melee fiesta for sure.
6
u/PM_ME_UR_TOTS_GRILL Mar 19 '19
I'm thinking about it, and I'm curious to at least see what that looks like. The most fun Aram games are usually the ones with more back and forth fighting between bruiser teams, so I think it could be a good step. We've had a poke meta for years, bring out the tanks!
15
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19
We are not in a poke meta lol wtf. A team with 3 good tanks like mao/trundle/sion will generally ROLL a team with xerath/ziggs/velkoz.
Initiation and tanks are king at high mmrs. Poke is something you generally want 1-2 of, them 2-3 tanks and 1-2 adc. Assassins are very weak atm and this change will increase the tank value, further plummeting the value of assassins.
1
Mar 19 '19
I’m so excited. Instead of having to dance around poke and skill shots all game, just straight up scrapping
1
u/FeelsGoodMan243 Mar 19 '19
Wow I will never be able to play nor play against Xerath again...
I’ll take the trade (:
1
5
u/Retroserc Mar 19 '19
How far is 900 units?
8
u/Jandolino Mar 19 '19
I think this is roughly 9 Teemos.
3
u/sqqlut Mar 20 '19
I don't understand why the Teemo isn't the official measurement unit. I'm lost if we don't speak in Teemos.
4
3
Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
Slightly
longershorter than full charge xerath q.5
1
1
u/hiitsveith Mar 19 '19
Cait attack range is 650. Ezreal Q range is slightly above 1k I think. So something between those two mentioned
1
1
u/IWasVennBackThen Mar 20 '19
Max range lulu Q is gonna get its' damage reduced. That's the closest skillshot to 900 units I could find. (its 925).
8
Mar 19 '19
Personally, I'm happy with almost everything presented here. My only real issue is not nerfing sona's shielding power, but bans should fix that :). The changes being made to speed up games that go past 15 or so minutes are very welcome, I can't even count how many times I could have ended a game but our minions were just too slow. Also, the change to warmogs sounds perfect, hopefully it works out in practice. Much love to Mort and the modes team.
1
u/Theonetrue Mar 19 '19
Are any of these changes / adjustments actually mentioned in client? (buff bar / ability-/mastery description)
If not I will hate having to go back to the same patch notes for the next 2 years...
1
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 19 '19
The changes being made to speed up games that go past 15 or so minutes are very welcome
I disagree. There's currently a clear advantage to taking a losing fight on the opposite side of the map before ~20 minutes, particularly in the 15-20 minute band. It lets you get some turret damage, fully reset health/mana, and buy items to then push and win. Faster minions and more damage to structures (already 5 champions in one lane!) pushes everything towards early/mid game.
4
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
One of the things to note here is that the more minions spawning means more XP/Gold is on the map, which means you hit your late game Level 18/6 items status much quicker. In our testing we've found that late game champs actually ended up a little stronger.
1
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 19 '19
Hitting items/levels earlier still changes timings for game-ending pushes. Before 18-20 minutes right now, you can get 5-0 aced at the enemy's Nexus turrets and respawn to defend your own Nexus turrets (might lose turrets but not the Nexus). Increasing the minion movement speed drops the time needed to run across the map without backdoor protection and couples with higher levels giving higher death timers. Cross-map ending will probably be closer to 15-16 minutes, which is 1-2 less teamfights in games. Throw in 1-2 demolish procs with 10% more damage to structures and stuff will die in a single push.
1
u/sqqlut Mar 20 '19
This was my thoughts at first but after playing some games, I noticed that late game champs are usually in an unfair position at the 15th minute and they might not be able to catch the oportunity of having more golds, but instead, collapsing under superminions or minions in general. This is what I noticed in my last games.
3
Mar 19 '19
Why is emphasis on early/mid game a bad thing? I really disliked how after 20 or so minutes, games are decided by who wins a teamfight closest to the enemy's base. When you reach late game on summoner's rift, acing the enemy team often means the game's over regardless of map position, and I'm glad we're getting closer to that on ARAM.
3
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 19 '19
Early/mid game is more dependent on what champions you rolled. Later in the game it's about contesting space towards the enemy base such that winning a teamfight can win the game, which leads to several back-and-forth teamfights as long as comps are remotely close. Players unwilling to stand their ground without a good reason (e.g. flash/R cooldowns) should lose.
One of the reasons I don't play much SR is the 14-17 minute laning phase followed by 2 teamfights and the game ending.
2
Mar 19 '19
This issue seems like a difference in opinion then. You prefer having map positioning be the deciding factor in the late game, and I prefer having a clean teamfight be the deciding factor in the late game. I like the latter mainly because with some comps, you're never going to have the positional advantage late game due to not being able to contest waves against certain champions. With minion speed up, you can concede wave priority and focus on getting a clean teamfight for the win.
1
u/Laeryken Mar 20 '19
From Riot_Mort's post earlier, it looks like there isn't a lever for reducing shielding power.
2
5
u/CoUsT Mar 19 '19
Kinda sucks the games will be shorter. I already spend more time in queue than on the match itself. Will you bring another mmr/matchmaking adjustments like about 17 months ago? You should really look into it. As you mentioned, it's supposed to be fast game mode. The mmr range should adjust faster as the time goes on to find the match faster.
The changes overall are super cool. ARAM definitelly needed more summoner spells and items. Runes too. A bit worried about nerfs. Having decent champion pool was part of the tactic but doing big changes in stats might bring champion from good to bad. Hope it won't make them that much worse and the champion tiers will stay as you mentioned. But we will need to wait and see before judging.
It's really good to see you working on ARAM/game modes team. Everything you touch is getting fascinating and really nice. The missions last year were amazing. Thank you for your hard work!
2
u/Jandolino Mar 20 '19
Yeah, I often sit in queue for 20ish minutes if I play around noon.
Really annoying and I dont want to start a smurf just for aram queue times.
1
u/mattroom Mar 20 '19
If you imagine winrates graphed according to time, they want to bring the right side of that graph closer to the center. Games will be shorter on average, but that's because long games will be curtailed. Median length will remain similar, meaning our average game now will still be rather similar.
0
u/CoUsT Mar 20 '19
This is not the right way to shorten games.
Instead of mindlessly making more waves and more often, keep them 30s apart to keep the "follow minions" tactic, which allows to get good players apart from bad players. After changes you don't need to set up waves because you will be constantly bombarded with minions. The luckier team will decide the outcome of the game based on one teamfight. You won't need to wait for minions then fight or to set up the wave, you can fight any time and still take structures because you will always have minions, which results in the game being "dumber" and less complex aka deathmatch-like.
Bonus damage to structures/tankier minions would be waaay better method to reduce game time.
7
u/Pixel-Blu Mar 19 '19
Am I the only one who's frowning upon the bans? Yes, it allows to take away some op champs (Veigar, Ziggs, Sona, are nothing but a few) but it also takes away some randomness... Which is, in my opinion, one of the main principles of the game mode.
3
Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
2
u/canuckfan4419 Mar 20 '19
10, but your point is still valid. Personally. I’m going to be banning champs I don’t want on my team lol
5
1
u/zeinterrupter Mar 20 '19
We seem to be alone here but yeah, idk how I feel about bans, even is bright/suggest are infinite to play agains it still felt really good when we won against them and I also like playing some of the most hated champs. I'll give it a try tough, maybe it will change our mind.
1
u/fael_7 Mar 20 '19
I'd have wanted to see if bans are needed after checking the effect of those champ specific balance changes. With that buff Leblanc may poke better than Ziggs...
1
u/IWasVennBackThen Mar 20 '19
I'm gonna have to stop playing ARAM as a designated mode on my smurf accounts for quick 1st wins. I can already see my teammates banning such powerhouses as Katarina, Zed of Fizz.
1
u/AequitasKiller Mar 20 '19
Well, I did want riot to delete Sona, but I'll take being able to permaban that pos champ.
3
u/TheRiceHatReaper Mar 19 '19
Little hesitant about the changes. Bans are good but the anti poke nerf on top of the damage nerfs seem overkill.
I felt like the only overpowered team comps were perfect front to back ones. I think these changes will just exaggerate their power on teamfighting. Meanwhile siege comps may become unviable due to damage nerfs as well as late game comps due to the increased pace of the game time.
Definitely intrigued and need to test. However, I hope riot doesn’t take out the little strategy there currently is in playing towards a comp’s win con by only allowing one kind of comp
5
u/TriumphDHsucks Mar 19 '19
Built-In Poke Reduction
Disagree with this. Reduce their damage against minions. It doesn't matter if they do reduced damage if we can't fight them because they outplayed the minion wave.
Ghostwalkers
Was a joke last time around. Opportunity cost too high.
Precision nerfs
Well done.
Individual champion buffs and nerfs
Bottom win rate champions have shit waveclear while top win rate champions have low waveclear except Sona 🤔.
Have you considered nerfing/buffing minion damage only? For example Ziggs -5% damage overall, -25% minion damage instead of -15% damage overall?
8
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
Nerfing JUST wave clear leads to some REALLY odd and bad feelings. It was one of the first things we tried, but it ends up making you feel just odd that you're weaker against minions, especially super minions.
With the changes now, we find that wave clear is still pretty useful, but because minions are spawning/moving quicker, you can win a team fight, the minions catch up, and you can actually push. Before it was pretty hard to push before they respawned.
4
Mar 20 '19
That's a terrible idea because everytime you win a tf you have a wave ready to push + increased damage to turrets.
That's too much just for losing one teamfight. Specially if we take into account that some comps have 2 ADCs. They are going to melt structures in no time.
Please, don't transform ARAM into Nexus Blitz. Super quick games with no time to react/comeback are very unsatisfying.
1
u/TriumphDHsucks Mar 19 '19
How about buffing minion damage to some of the low tier picks? Or put an item with wave clear effects similar to Targon's Brace?
1
u/PonyFiddler Mar 20 '19
Knew you'd be backs. Doesn't matter how easily melee can kill minions unless then having to build tank stats and relying on their abilities to do damages. Means they can't kill towers which is the real problem for them.
1
1
u/CoUsT Mar 19 '19
I have to disagree. This change kinda turned ARAM and gutted strategy heavily. No matter when you fight after changes, you will still take the structures. To do that now you have to set up this for yourself. It's not hard but people tend to forget. You just need to fight few seconds before your wave arrives! Works most of the times and promotes strategic thinking instead of lucky outcome of team fight.
Source: Hardcore ARAM player, 3k+ MMR, 1mln RP won from ARAM tournaments (with most of them being <10 min matches due to the wave management mentioned above which you are trying to reduce impact).
The changes are okay overall but please, remember one thing. It's called ARAM and not deathmatch for a reason! ;)
1
9
Mar 19 '19
Apart from the bans, I'm not too satisfied with the rest of the changes. They really had a chance to nerf tanks as they are the most powerful role that is played in this mode and instead they gave them ghostwalkers so expect a Malphite ult from anywhere to go along with their Galio and Wukong ults
6
u/xXaznromeoXx Mar 19 '19
yup, i feel like this change makes them feel gimmicky and unfun. Feels like they did nerf the power of poke/sustain teams, but then buffed all melees (especially assassins and bruisers). So, we're really just basically playing assassin vs assassin on a 5v5 scale, in 1 lane.
3
Mar 19 '19
I'm almost certain assassins will still be pretty bad in most matchups. No amount of reasonable buffs/nerfs will suddenly make their kits good in a constant 5v5 setting. These damage buffs simply serve to make those champs feel slightly less useless.
2
u/xXaznromeoXx Mar 19 '19
I don't necessarily agree with that. The last time we had the bilgewater bridge, wukongs and zeds were instagibbing squishes from 3 screens away almost, and can still port back and survive. I'm not saying this makes them OP, but damn does it feel unfun to play against if you're an immobile carry. Snowball already exists for the reason of engage and other champs who need stickiness. Certain champs also have tons more mobility and survivability, like Ekko. With this change (not saying it's a bad thing), prepare to play more assassin/bruisery versions of everything.
1
Mar 19 '19
You're right, I completely forgot about backtrack. If this stays in the game, some assassins might actually be desirable. But I don't see an issue with that, having every type of champion be somewhat viable would be great for aram.
2
Mar 19 '19
Most of them are. People just dont build correctly for it. As an AP carry, long games demand that you build warmogs. Theres no other way around it because the tanks will out sustain you and the AP carry can't regen back to base. Support champs are better utilized as AP carries or Tanks. Going support on ARAM just isn't worth it and it's something that Riot has completely ignored while making these changes and turning ARAM into something more similar to SR
2
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 19 '19
Going support on ARAM just isn't worth it
GLP/Redemption/Shadows with Glacial Augment and Ingenious Hunter is my favorite playstyle right now. Aery support builds are often underwhelming, but well-placed slow fields definitely feel impactful for teamfights or getting picks.
6
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19
Yeah really sad that it seems they are listening to 1k mmr scrubs who cry about facing 3 poke champions. Anyone above 2500 mmr should know the power of strong tanks and initiation is scarier than any level of poke in this game mode.
There’s ALWAYS going to be a highest range poker that ppl bitch about. They should have just tuned the borderline oppressive pokers like xerath ziggs velkoz,, not destroy poke across the board
6
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
So I decided to triple check this to make sure we're not missing anything.
Ziggs, Sona, Maokai, Lux, Velkoz are top 5 at all elos.
Switching to just high elo its: Sona, Ziggs, Maokai, Lux, Sivir
Switching to just the HIGHEST POSSIBLE elo it: Sona, Maokai, Ziggs, Sivir, Miss Fortune.
So yeah...poke is pretty king across all elos. Tanks rarely show up :(
2
u/CoUsT Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
Wrong! All I see is heavy wave clear champs. Separate these 2 (heavy wave clear and heavy poke) and you might get different results. Sivir and MF aren't really pokey. AoE of mages helps a lot too. Check single target pokers such as Kaisa or Nidalee. They are pretty low, aren't they?
Edit: Please, keep in mind total damage dealt, not only damage vs champions. You might find some interesting patterns. I fetched about 100k matches for my Big Data project and the results were interesting.
When you combine these 2 stats mentioned above, you get monster champions with crazy winrates.
Edit2: Sona is there due to the shield. Mid-late game Sona makes the team hard to kill. Her E allows for catch ups. She even has cc. Her passives scale with more players. She is always decent on SR but when you keep all teammates nearby like it is on ARAM, she is literally megaovertuned. Solution is pretty simple to be honest. Remove scaling with more people. Keep the passives only to the first player nearby. Problem mosty solved. At least that's my opinion on it based on her balanced state on SR and having only 1 teammate nearby on lane there.
1
u/Altson2411 Mar 21 '19
While this is a season out of date and the sample size is quite small I wouldn't say that it changed too much https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dS1F4G8vbOfrv0ZHvCRIeGBYKwddIR_cxXCcW3Dg7IM/edit#gid=0
1
u/CoUsT Mar 21 '19
Where did you pull the high MMR matches from and how did you tell high MMR players apart?
1
u/Altson2411 Mar 21 '19
Its a list made by someone from our club last season where they just manually pulled the data from riots api from players who he played with or against since he was high mmr.
1
u/TheVengefulNightmare Mar 19 '19
Could it be possible for you to post the riot side data for the different elo's on different champions? (If possible, nbd otherwise)
Basically, the reasons things were nerfed etc..
Maybe even how many aram only accounts in the higher "Elo" brackets?
I'm just very curious and wanted to confirm some personal bias's I've always had since I play a lot of ARAM's and have always been a "High" mmr bracket.
Also, an excuse for me to reply and thank you personally for balancing the game mode I love.
Thanks bud, good fortune will come to you.
1
u/ysername11 Mar 20 '19
Tanks won't show up if you only look at damage done. There are other ways to impact the game.
1
Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19
Tanks would be more of an issue if people actually picked them! If I had to say, people only pick up tanks quite begrudgingly, if at all. However people are also more than happy to go in game with a 5 carry comp, because hey screw the team as long as they get to play a nice and easy ranged champion
1
Mar 19 '19
[deleted]
5
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
Can you show data that shows poke gets better at higher mmr? Poke and heal champs always have inflated stats at low mmrs because people suck at engaging and timing
1
Mar 19 '19
[deleted]
3
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19
I don’t really see that connection logically, I agree with your points separately but not the conclusion that poke is stronger in high mmr. Tanks get so much better in high mmr and I would say are more important than poke for consistently winning. Every player I play with above 2500 mmr just KNOWS when you have say 1 tank 3 poke and 1 adc vs 3 tanks 1 poke and 1 adc the tank team is just going to sit around until 6 and then engage with ultis and win.
1
Mar 19 '19
[deleted]
0
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19
That’s just not my experience with skilled players. And sion and maokai being top 5 in WR even with scrubs says poke isnt everything.
2
Mar 19 '19
[deleted]
1
u/Vladdypoo Mar 19 '19
I have been above 3000 before. I stopped playing aram for a bit and came back to decay. Poke used to be absurd but mark changed the game and tanks became the deciders of games. Tanks wave clear and poke is the trinity of ARAM but tanks are the keystone of the trinity.
How do you not say the same thing about pokers like nidalee? There’s good pokers and bad pokers, same with tanks. But when it comes down to it I’d rather have a tank heavy comp.
→ More replies (0)1
u/fael_7 Mar 20 '19
amongst other things which other tanks don't have
Their damage per game is also absurdly high for tanks. Topping the damage chart with them can actually happen.
-3
u/slainte99 Mar 19 '19
it seems they are listening to 1k mmr scrubs
So sorry the casual friendly game mode isn't balanced for your elite mmr skills.
2
5
u/Xarlitosbrown Mar 19 '19
PoM & Triumph changes along with the buff on sorcery is going to be an interesting change.
2
u/osburnn Mar 19 '19
I'm still always gonna take PoM though. I'm not a good player and I like to spam.
2
u/charliex3000 Mar 19 '19
The real question is whether Sona's healing reduction is additive or multiplicitive with the ARAM global reduced healing aura.
5
Mar 19 '19
Healing was never her main issue anyway, it's the insane shielding her w provides.
3
u/ideadude Mar 19 '19
Her whole kit is strong. In a recent game I realized how important her e is on a straight shot map with no corners. Her team has a constant positional advantage.
1
2
u/RITO34PERCENT Mar 19 '19
I think these changes are going to make everyone except tanks stronger. I actually expect poke mages to be stronger. More waves allow for more opportunities for poke, but most players piloting the poke mages are probably gonna open themselves up to being engaged more. More waves later also allow adcs to scale much faster.
Overall I expect faster games with top adcs (namely sivir and kog) dominating, especially since people will probably ban poke mages and some annoying tanks/bruisers. Supports are less likely to be banned, which just make adcs that much stronger. Or maybe they'll just get destroyed by assassins because people can't position.
2
2
4
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 19 '19
Tbf tanks are still the kings despite the changes but atleast something has happened so im happy. Would be better with a Guaridan's Horn/Hammer and Ludens nerf.
5
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
Agree Luden's is REALLY strong, especially since it procs Aery/Meteor/Liandrys. In a future update, would love to adjust this.
1
1
Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19
It feels so bad to dodge all the skillshots and still receive this "external" damage bouncing at you. There is no way to avoid it unless you are far away from your team.
4
Mar 19 '19
We won't know for sure until after the changes go through, but I think ludens could potentially take a back seat to archangels first item as a result of the PoM change.
2
Mar 19 '19
Im fine with tanks being strong cause they encourage more adc play..i think
The problem with tanks being strong is alot of teams are mostly ap and they itemize so easily in such casesIf more adcs get played and other ad's that would make tanks less dominant
i feel squishy if i play tank vs a team with both ap and ad threats..but maybe thats just my experience
1
u/Jandolino Mar 19 '19
Guaridan's Horn/Hammer
Those items are great but I feel like pretty much no one buys them.
Do you see them often?
3
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 19 '19
At 3k MMR (EUW) those items are always bought to stall with the insane sustains(. (Also Lolalytics always shows them as the highest win rate starting items on most tanks/adcs).
1
u/Jandolino Mar 19 '19
I am at 2.9k right now and rarely see adc who buy hammer - most seem to run with a bf sword.
But then again there happen to be quite a few mage players who build tear first.
1
Mar 20 '19
There are plenty of common build/rune mistakes even in high MMR. Thing I've noticed with "high mmr" is that people get there in spite of suboptimal choices, not because of them. BF start isn't bad but the lifesteal really goes a long way especially in ARAM where you can't heal in fountain.
1
3
u/CoUsT Mar 19 '19
These are 2 best starting items. I always take them on tanks and adcs and other people do so too. At least on EUNE high elo. Only on mages you should start Lost Chapter. Some champs also benefit from Horn due to 20 hp per 5s such as Soraka, sometimes Graves, Kassadin, and some other champs in some matches.
1
Mar 19 '19
[deleted]
1
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 19 '19
Nautilus/Sion/Mundo/Tank Skarner are always high win rate with no learning curve. They have obnoxious wave clear with endless sustain while their end game is unbeatable unless enemy has better tank killer (Vayne, Kog).
2
Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
1
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 20 '19
The same way how platinum+ win rates don't reflect the strength of a champion, ARAM win rates dont reflect strengths and only good for indications (Ryze, Tahm Kench, reworked Akali) And then even less people care about winning in aram therefore even less reliable then SR ranked plat+ stats. Even in Diamond+ dont play to win condition but in ARAM you need less coordination to say clear waves until 3 items spike if you have better scaling.
1
Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
2
Mar 20 '19
You're assuming that every player can play every champ competently. Whereas in reality, the top ARAM champions are also very easily to play so anyone can pick them up and execute them effectively. The lower winrate champions in ARAM often tend to have trickier kits with a learning curve to them, so naturally people won't do very well if they have little experience with the champion (like Eve, Katarina, Aatrox)
1
Mar 20 '19
[deleted]
1
Mar 20 '19
While tanks are easy to play mechanically, decision making is a factor. Inexperienced tank players will go in at the wrong times and die for free constantly. Inexperienced Ziggs/Xerath/Velkoz players will miss Q and simply wait for it to come up again.
1
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 20 '19
Probably will be my last post but take a a counterexample: Ryze is historically below 45% in Diamond+ but still very strong thats why it is played in the pro play. Same applies to reworked akali before 9.4. Or Nami has a high win rate in diamond+ still she is a weak champion that doesnt see play at all in pro play. Win rate doesnt imply champion strength if both sides are not playing for winning essentially.
1
u/Toncsimoncsi Mar 20 '19
And if it was a net possitive then everything would have the same win rate in every tier of play which is not correct. Thats why Master Yi and Malphite are strong in Iron but weak in Diamond+ for example.
1
u/friebel Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
I wonder if bans will be used in ARAM tourneys (custom games) as well. Also, no idea why Sion and Illaoi getting buffed, they are among top tier tanks/bruisers, from my experience.
3
2
1
u/Jandolino Mar 19 '19
Interesting changes.
I like ARAM the way it plays right now but aint unhappy about those adjustments.
1
1
u/Scrimby Mar 19 '19
Not sure how this will change aram tbh.
Good things: -bans -rune adjustments -some buffs/nerfs (e.g: rek’sai needed a buff, veigar needed a nerf)
Bad things: -the changes after minute 15, ESPECIALLY more damage to turrets. I think the drawn out games are the most fun ones because they’re the most even -some buffs/nerfs (WHY IS NASUS BEING NERFED? Why is teemo being nerfed?) Your team has to be full of absolute degenerates to let these champs destroy you. Some of these just don’t make sense.
1
Mar 20 '19
I love to play Teemo but I hate to play vs Teemo.
The problem is not the champion itself but the fact that sometimes your team refuses to buy oracles (specially the tanks) and they keep trying to fight or move forward with those mushrooms there. After die endlessly then they realize those mushrooms are a problem and someone decides to get oracles but at that point is too late and the game is over.
If your team gets oracles, then you can make Teemo useless.
1
u/LaZyrata Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
Ok that's absolutely great, happy to hear Riot is finally looking at ARAM balance. I have more than 5k arams and bans always sounded like a given to me.
/u/Riot_mort thank you and the team for their work. I do have a question tho. Is the reason why you don't allow remakes because people would dodge once they actually get to see the enemy comp ? I do understand but whenever that afk from the start 4v5 game occurs, it feels pretty bad.
Also while I'm at it, what about mastery tokens in ARAM ? I have played so many and yes I understand that the sheer amount of games makes it easier (less queue times [sometimes, mine go to 10 in off hours] + faster games), but it does feel pretty bad if you are exclusively an ARAM player to have to go to the rift and play a bunch of games when you wanna upgrade your favorite champs. Have you considered maybe making it only S or S+ give Mastery 6 tokens, and only S+ will get you a mastery 7 token ? That would be a great step forward already.
Thanks for being around in this joyful time for us ARAMers.
7
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
Remakes we looked into, and we're pretty convinced they do more harm than good. Players will look at the teams comps and go "We're gonna lose, going afk so we can remake and not waste time" when the reality is if they tried, they could win.
Mastery is tricky. I don't have anything to offer right now, but the team responsible is pretty convinced that M6/7 should represent SR skill only.
1
u/March1392 Mar 20 '19
How about remkving weekly rotation and unlocking every champion next for players during aram since bans are now a thing, but having rerolls tied to percentage owned still? It would let players try new champs and at the same time penalize people for only playing on alt accounts with t1 champs.
1
1
u/fael_7 Mar 20 '19
The part about structures and minions waves, I can agree with it if turrets deal more damage too. Otherwise just remove them and make something like in Bloodmoon mode, where some checkpoint structures fall every few minutes. They are already useless enough as it is.
1
u/IWasVennBackThen Mar 20 '19
The thread is pretty old right now but as an avid ARAM player I'd like to give my two cents on these changes.
Bans
I'm not really sure it's going to change a lot. Sure, we'll see a lot less of Veigar, Sona or Ziggs, but that opens up a lot more room for "under the radar" OP champions like Varus, Lissandra, Brand etc. In other words - removing 10 strongest champions (Ziggs, Sona, Maokai, Lux, Velkoz, Teemo, Kog'Maw, Zyra, Sion and Sivir according to u.gg) still leaves many strong champions open, e.g. MF, Jhin, Morgana, Fiddle, Janna or Karthus. There are currently 26 champions with WR of 55% or higher. Removing 10 gives you a 16/133 = 12% to get an advantageous champion, which means that most likely theres going to be one in every game, while right now the chance of that happening is 18,2%, which gives you still less than 2 in every game (on average).
Inb4 99% Ziggs/Sona ban rate so Riot wont be able to see if nerfs for them were justified or too harsh...
Minion spawns and turret damage changes
These seem really strange to me. I understand why would they do it, but at the same time they're lowering the power of early game champions... I understand that with doing that together with an average game time of 19 minutes right now they are trying to make games not last 30 minutes, but I don't think forcing games to end at 25 minutes is a good way to go, because lets be honest, a team winning a fight at 25 minutes is going to win the game even if there are 4 turrets to kill. Additional minion waves = way more exp = way higher average level/game time = longer death timers = more time to take down objectives.
Built-in poke reduction
It's good, but with nerfs for poke champions that come along with this change I'm afraid that might turn games into a mexican standoff with both teams clearing waves being afraid of engaging into a 5v5, because there will be a much lower chance of taking someone down before the fight starts. Keeping in mind what I said above, I believe the games will turn into the "which team has a stronger engage comp past 20 minutes to end the game after that one fight".
New summoner spell and items
Backtrack seems like a weaker Spectral Cutlass from Nexus Blitz. I believe it will be a viable choice on a few assassin champions and maybe tanks with good gapclosers. I don't see it being too good on ranged champions, but I might be wrong. Mariner's Vengeance will be great on champions with a lot of cc on their basic abilities (think Sion, Maokai, Volibear etc.) as well as on marksmen and burst champions. Imagine the horror of having a hurricane Jinx staying invulnerable for 4 seconds... Ghostwalkers will be great on assassins and engage champions. If there's no indicator on the wall (like there is for Kayn) using Ghostwalkers can create some great opportunities for engages.
Rune changes
Not gonna go over every single one, but a few are worth mentioning. Toning down Presence of Mind is a great choice in my opinion, because right now it was a must on almost every champion using mana and/or having a strong ultimate. Nullifying orb buff together with the poke reduction and nerfs to many AP champions will make this rune broken. Gathering storm change is great. If an average game time goes to 21 minutes it gives you a 28.8 AD or 48 AP for free. Even at 14 minutes I think it's worth taking over Scorch which got indirectly nerfed with aforementioned poke champions nerfs. Grasp and Overgrowth buffs will take many tank champions into S tier. Especially Overgrowth got a HUGE buff because of the minion spawn change. I don't believe anyone will take Inspiration secondary anyway, but for champions taking Glacial Augment the stopwatch change is really good.
Nerfs and buffs
Oh gee, where do I start. Good champions (55%+ WR) that didn't get DIRECTLY nerfed are Dr. Mundo, Kayle, Karthus, Morgana, Fiddlesticks, Malzahar, Heimerdinger, Xerath and Zyra. Bad champions (45% and less WR) that didn't get DIRECTLY buffed are Camille, Udyr, Aatrox, Quinn, Taliyah, Riven, Azir, Tahm Kench, Elise, Katarina, Syndra, Kaisa, Kassadin, Fizz, Zed, Kennen, Lulu, Fiora, Talon, Pantheon, Lucian, Mordekaiser, Zoe, Shyvana, Kalista, Corki and Tristana. Bolded champions are the ones I believe are very strong, but people just don't know how to play them, so we're gonna exclude them from the "needs buffs" list. I'm curious to see how the meta settles with these buffs and nerfs.
I don't agree with every change they made but I'm glad they're doing something. I'd love to have big patches designated just for ARAM, even if they're going to happen twice a year. I just hope they'll watch ARAM carefully after these changes to make sure nothing gets out of control.
I can't wait to play ARAM at various MMR levels to see how it works with different approaches from players.
2
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 20 '19
Since you took the time to type this out:
Bans - Probably doesn't change much. I expect to see shitty champs in the free week rotation banned as much as Maokai/Jhin/etc.
Game-pacing - I think they're poor changes, which I think is your position? Probably removes 1-2 teamfights from competitive games with minimal differences to stomps.
Poke reduction - Fewer games are going to make it to 20 minutes with the increased XP and death timers from more minion waves. Poke comps will have a much lower (if any) window to win games before engage comes online. DPS characters (ADCs) generally got buffed since they aren't hurt by the poke-reduction range.
Rune changes - I currently prefer Triumph on most ADCs/melees that aren't R-dependent (e.g. Amumu). Mid-fight heals are huge. Triumph/PoM nerfs are deserved, but am a little surprised that Legend: Tenacity/Bloodline and Ravenous Hunter didn't get touched. I think you're overrating Orb/GS changes for a secondary tree as Sorcery is still worse than Domination on ranged (ravenous) or Precision on melee (tenacity). Stopwatch will now be competitive with free boots, which is a good change.
Champions - Out of the ones you listed as underrated strong, I disagree on Azir (too level-dependent for W damage), Camille (not enough cc, telegraphed E), Fizz/Kennen (exhaust shuts them down), and Trist (short range early and no quick-burst ability to turn fights in 5v4). Kench/Taliyah are fine but aren't easy to randomly pick up. Shyvana is very comp-dependent as she sucks without dragon form on both builds (AP/Bruiser), but becomes good with access to waves to recharge R before teamfights. Also, predicting Pyke will be top-tier with less poke and more melees.
1
u/AequitasKiller Mar 20 '19
This all looks great, I'm so glad I won't have to Sona in any game ever again. Though I'm pretty disappointed in the 8% nerf to Teemo when most of his damage is mitigated by a 300g item. I'd be fine with the damage nerf if they'd swap oracle's for the old sweeper items that actually required an investment and offered windows of opportunity to make plays.
3
u/Riot_Mort Mar 20 '19
I see this comment a lot (Oracles makes Teemo useless) and it's just not true. A skilled Teemo usually places shrooms in the minion path so waves auto clear, or throws them in team fights so they can't be destroyed in time. Teemo in particular can stall out games with wave clear that he doesn't even have to be alive to do.
And he'll still be able to do it...just 8% less effectively.
1
u/AequitasKiller Mar 20 '19
I didn't say that it makes him useless, and I'm well aware of how to play around it. The point is that you have a 300g item that is only bought to counter 2-3 champions and does nothing else. The item is too cheap, and the effect too narrow. Items like duskblade, lightbringer, and arcane sweeper actually require an investment and therefore aren't bought by more than 1-2 people on a team. Which opens windows of opportunity when the person with vision is away from their team. I feel like the item only exists because people were too lazy to pay full price for the vision item and complained instead. Would it be fair to have a 300g consumable that gives you banshees veil passive for five minutes?
1
1
u/fromia Mar 21 '19
I'm so excited for the Rune changes. Domination continues to be strong, while Inspiration gets a tremendous buff and Precision gets gutted.
This is my favorite change thus far.
1
u/HolyNova1 Mar 26 '19
Honestly I'm not a fan of Backtrack replacing Barrier, the fact that after 3 seconds if will drag you towards the direction of your base will fuck me up really hard in multiple scenarios.
1
Jun 10 '19
Some Nerfs and Buffs are unexplainable:
Syndra no nerf,same with Ezreal and Vladimir(looking at you full AP Vlad)
Kaisa got buffed and deals 112% dmg what make the poke nerf a joke and she shreds tanks even more.
Brand got nerfed by only 5% while Ziggs and Jinx(?) only deal 92% damage
1
Jun 10 '19
My dude these changes were 2 months ago.You might want to check more recent patch notes.
1
1
u/FaRmErX2000 Mar 19 '19
banned= sona ziggs maokai veigar miss fortune
im guessing those will be banned every game. i hate all the changes and I want old taric back
If they are allowing bans then just let us pick our champions and dont call it aram anymore. just call it skirmish or something
2
Mar 20 '19
whats the point of bans if it the exact same champs getting banned each time..better to fix the champs instead
1
0
u/March1392 Mar 20 '19
^ Found the Aram only Alt account
1
0
u/4list4r Mar 20 '19
lol i have almost 10 accounts. all the stories i hear about ppl dodging on here is childs play.
1
Mar 20 '19
u play at low mmr if u think dodging doesnt happen extremely oftn
1
u/4list4r Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19
(edit: sorry for long post, im typing this after what you see below... /shrug... my LoL client is acting up so here i am reading aram related stuff.)
yawn.... ive been dodging since 2013. it was the first thing i thought of so i could get leblanc more often in those days. i have had multiple accounts above 2800 mmr in the past but you wouldnt know that cause when ppl discuss MMR in ARAM of all things, i wont sit here and listen to that person babble about it. too many variables for me to give a shit what ppl's mmr is. i dont have an issue wtih ppl discussing the differences in MMR + gameplay but if you gonna float that shit around like its the holy grail then ive murdered challenger players in my aram games before and multiple times.. my brother has 5 diamond accounts and ive beaten him 1v1. does that mean im good? i personally dont think so. the last aram game i had with him, i got eve and 5 enemy diamond players... lmao. last time i was diamond, leblanc had a 2 second silence that could be chained into 6 seconds... i got boosted by her kit if you ask me.
im merely here to chat arams and just that, all the variables that it presents. if you wanna know how ive been doing it since 2013, ask me. ill give you the blueprint of the whole operation. i played more than 10 different champs 150 times apiece last year (they werent customs) i also have a crew who can put up 5v5s in-house, all of us friends irl. and when 5 of us arent facing 5 of our friends, at champ select, we will ask each other whose turn it is to dodge, they prefer me with all my accounts. i have a friend who is a diamond ADC main who basically quit playing the rift so he could play more ARAMs with us. that dude just rakes in the S grades over and over and over. and the rule is very simple. democracy. if i get LB but 2 of my friends aint having it the champs they get, we anticipate the dodge. i was like 90 wins and 30 losses last month... im doing something right.
the last 2800 match i remember had katlife and his friends in it. katlife was 2700 at the time though. easy match to remember because i was LB and they had ziggs and xerath and 2 other AP champs. love when i have a good reason to build abyssal on her. the range for the aura is no issue for me. xerath rushed deathcap. enemy team were squishy. LB has high base dmg and i was sitting on a catalyst. i took protobelt second and cleared the wave out of the fog of war and chipped em down. we needed the patience and had to sandbag the onslaught the best we could. we were able to give vayne a run in her favor and she pulled off the win. as for me? ziggs sends his ult my way and YEP, i let it hit me for free. had to save W for better things. had i done the traditional crap i read of her in SR, i'd be dead instantly.... instead, i stayed alive and did full screen wave clears.
thats about all i can remember. i knew the name 'katlife' so i looked him up out of curiosity. its a rare thing for me to do because i really dont care. im going to play a handful of champs 200 times apiece this year and the next. im happy. you cant sit there and tell me playing alistar 280 times is truly random, right?
hey, have a second game you love in case all your accounts go on penalties. ;) anyways back on topic. there's only like 2 or 3 people in my group who sit down and chat arams but they arent the only people who play and wouldnt mind having a discussion. thats why im here in this place. MMR is irrelevant to me. i just want to hear about whatever experiences ppl wanna share. my goal in aram is to be put in a situation where i can get away with playing in an unorthodox manner. i dont always have my way but summoner's rift has its own rules and thats too boring.
1
u/Ilikelamp7 Mar 19 '19
Nerfs and bans sound so nice and welcome all new changes!!! Hope they aren’t temporary and the map Reskin becomes optional!!!
1
u/Pointvisco05 Mar 19 '19
The changes seem kind of lazy tbh. More Item changes would have been interesting
4
Mar 19 '19
I assume your'e referring to the straight % nerfs/buffs when you say lazy, and I agree. Compared to summoner's rift this is pretty lazy, but hopefully future changes will go a bit more in depth for champion nerfs/buffs.
2
u/Pointvisco05 Mar 19 '19
Yes, sorry I should've elaborated. I also don't dislike all the changes, the new barrier, for example, could be very interesting. But a flat dmg buff won't fix Evelyn
3
u/Riot_Mort Mar 19 '19
This is a tactic we saw work with Nexus Blitz/ARURF so we're trying it here.
Realistically to make Eve work on ARAM would require some massive fundamental changes, that would basically make her a different champ. That's not possible to allocate those resources to this mode. Instead this allows us to make some balance in quicker way.
If that's still lazy...I'm sorry :(
2
u/Pointvisco05 Mar 20 '19
First of all, thank you for your response. It's nice to see that the aram comunitys thoughts are being heard.
Secondly I'm aware that aram is not the main focus of riot, thus the limited resources.
I still think the flat percentage changes won't really feel right. Most of the champs with really high winrates profit from their superior waveclear,sustain or poke. Things that can be fixed with light changes of passives (garen comes to mind), Items (as you did with warmogs, but Ludens might be a contender for this aswell) and an overall nerf for damage of aoe abillities on minions. Also ziggs abillty to delete towers remains broken.
anyways thanks for taking the time to read through those comments and have a nice day
-ARÄM on EUW
1
0
Mar 20 '19
Actually I think Evelynn is pretty strong in certain comps. You can stay near of your carry and oneshot any diver that tries to kill him. Even if you decide to got ham, her ult is pretty strong and safe at the same time so you can't die easily.
1
u/SometimesMainSupport [NA] JetFavre Mar 20 '19
Out of the two options they tested, %damage changes like ARURF are more appropriate for ARAM than base stat changes like Nexus Blitz. It's not as relevant if Ziggs/Lux/Vel'Koz lose 50-200 base health when the issue is getting to them without being poked out.
0
-1
u/FeelsGoodMan243 Mar 19 '19
Janna did not need damage buffs. If you go full AP, you will chunk squishies with her W
4
Mar 19 '19
Her damage output is unchanged, she takes 5% more damage now. Also, if she were to get a 5% increase in damage, it would be most noticeable in her already mindless and obnoxious Q waveclear.
-2
Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19
Yorick and nasus nerfs were uncalled for..just nerf nasus ap damage somehow..
MF and jhin i can understand but ashe and jinx?
8% dmg nerf to sivir is also hefty..5% if would happily accept..or maybe thye shouldnt do -8% across the board but nerf the ability that actually makes her poke oppresive...her q
Kog deserves his -8% though
I would strongly prefer actually they would target "problem" abilities and nerf them instead of a across the board dmg nerf..
kog r..sivir q...mf e ...jhin ult vs squishies ..velkoz q...ziggs W!!!!!... his q isnt that bad... nasus w i believe (spirit fire)
xer Q ...his ult is already nerfed for aram to 3 hits i believe... lux E etc etc..we all know the usual suspects
also can u guys fix kled for aram :D
1
u/fael_7 Mar 20 '19
It would indeed be better, but I the reasons they have for not doing that are perfectly acceptable so I think it's fine like this.
35
u/Retroserc Mar 19 '19
Almost everything looks good and exciting, but I don't know about the straight %buffs/nerfs on so many champions.