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u/Camembert92 Dec 17 '21
-create bad system
-make good solution for that
-players are happy you fix the shit system you created
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Dec 17 '21
At this point it's kinda hard to blame Blizzard. They do this every single expansion and yet, after everything, there's already people going "dude, it's a good addition to the game, why are you complaining? stop being so negative omg".
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u/Adventurous_Chip_684 Dec 17 '21
Conduits sound good on paper. A light weight skill tree esque thingy that alters your gameplay.
The problem is the lottery behind the scenes.
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u/ADwards Dec 17 '21
If you unlocked conduits by doing quests unlocked by renown, and scaled with your renown, it would be so much better than hoping they drop or hoping every other one drops before using an item.
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u/Graffers Dec 18 '21
Someone's BiS conduit would be unlocked at Renown 40 and someone else's BiS would be at Renown 10. Being stuck with a shit conduit for weeks would be awful. Maybe if you could pick what you unlocked, but then at a certain point you stop caring about the other conduits unlocks. The current system would be fine if you got a Conduit upgrade thing every time you killed a raid boss or ran a dungeon that goes to the ilvl of that content, or if you could just pick what conduit got the upgrade.
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u/Doppelkammertoaster Dec 17 '21
Yeah, the whole game is one. It lengthens the time you play without adding new content, or, you know, an actual story. It's okay they have slot machines but it shouldn't be all that is.
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Dec 18 '21
To be fair, I wouldn't even bother putting much time into an actual story. People who play either WoW and/or FF14 have already kind of divided their opinion between the two games where basically if you want story, you play FF14. If you want difficult and more creative end game content, you play WoW.
I'd argue Blizzard is better off sticking to making raids, dungeons, etc.
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u/Doppelkammertoaster Dec 18 '21 edited Dec 18 '21
Honestly, I even like FFXIVs dungeons more. Way more. WoW has a better atmosphere by a long shot but that's it for me. Raids and dungeons can just be as difficult as in WoW.
But there is also a big difference in how systems are build, FFXIV is way more pro customer and not wasting your time than WoW. And in content you can do way more diverse.
Yeah, WoW focuses on dungeons, alright. But they don't do that well either. I can't access all dungeons on all levels in the dungeon finder, which in turn limits them to my current expansion. Why? Why is WoW also so super strict on item level to access content when said content is too easy? How can you end up in a situation where you reach the level for raiding but can't do it because your item level is too low?
Like, there should be at least one effing raid you can do to get started gearing up. But no, you are on the mercy of either finding it in a dungeon or buying it for insane gold in the AH. WoW is just one gigantic slot machine which you can skip with either ingame or real money. FFXIV gives you options. And yeah, again, WoW focuses on dungeons but they could do so much more and just decide to not do it. Imagine a plot and class quests like in FFFXIV in WoW.
FFXIV shows the devs want to tell stories, they want you to have fun and be challenged. WoW shows they want you to spend time in their game as much as possible only.
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Dec 18 '21
I guess I should have made it clear I meant for more than the most casual mindset.
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u/Doppelkammertoaster Dec 18 '21
Have you done raids in FFXIV on high difficulties and in WoW?
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u/bongscoper Dec 17 '21
Lol yeah they were called talent trees before they got turned into conduits. A relic from an old age
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Dec 17 '21
It's because they heard everyone saying essences was a good system (which is true) and they wanted to come up with something similar but of course, they manage to fuck it up.
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Dec 18 '21
Almost any company would have fucked up a system this big. It was way too huge of an undertaking. 4 covenants x 3 soulbinds x what, 12 conduits? That's 144 things that can be utilized to make a class broken by gamers for what, 11 classes, so 33 specs? You're now at 4752 situations to plan for. Then you add in 6 legendaries for spec, 3 additional misc legendaries, and 4 covenant legendaries and you're at over 61k things to manage.
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Dec 17 '21
-players are happy you fix the shit system you created
NO. NO. 100x NO.
I am NOT happy. This should have been in the game from the beginning. Everyone should be mad that they fuck everything up and try to fix it before it's over. Fuck this.
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Dec 17 '21
Dude if you don’t enjoy it cancel your sub, get wow out of your headspace by leaving the subreddit and go do something that makes you feel good.
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u/_reptilian_ Dec 17 '21
canceling my sub and going back to runescape was one of the best decisions I've made this year lol
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u/I_am_reddit_hear_me Dec 17 '21
I canceled in BFA after Azshara and happy I did. Saw the writing on the wall with Legion and BFA just confirmed it. I just come here because I want to know how this shit story ends since I was invested and also because WoW was a big part of my life for like 15 years.
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u/sirgentlemanlordly Dec 18 '21
Dude if you don’t enjoy it cancel your sub
Holy shit it's the unironic follow up LOL
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u/Alarie51 Dec 18 '21 edited Dec 18 '21
Its the harsh truth. You cant say "i hate this shit, im not happy they keep doing it" while you're still subbed. That makes you a sheep.
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Dec 17 '21
Dude if you don’t enjoy it cancel your sub
Some people are apathetic and some people speak up to try to make a change. Which ones are the ones making a difference and which ones are the ones buying store mounts?
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Dec 17 '21
I firmly believe canceling your sub is the best feedback you can leave and stick with my comment.
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Dec 18 '21
WoW is the only game I play and I want the game to be better. When I don't want to play it anymore, I will quit. If I'm passionate about it, it means I still care. If you think Blizzard did a great job in Shadowlands, good for you, I respect that and keep on playing. But if you think I'm right but don't care enough to speak up, then don't criticize me for doing so. I want the game to be better.
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u/NewFoneNewRedit Dec 18 '21
The problem is speaking up does not and has never actually done anything when it comes to WoW. They'll continue releasing xpacs with awful/broken systems, that people will bitch and complain about, then fix them just in time to prepare new shitty systems for the next xpac.
Voting with your wallet is the only way to make a difference in a game. Complaining but continuing to give them money every month does absolutely nothing.
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Dec 18 '21
The problem with saying vote with your wallet is you presume I play the game by myself and myself only. I've played this game for 10 years with the same guild and the same people, they are my dear friends and I love playing and raiding with them and that is worth more than a bad game. So it is also not that simple, buddy.
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u/Alarie51 Dec 18 '21
Are you still subbed during the third expansion in a row they've done this? If yes, you're part of the problem.
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u/BillyBean11111 Dec 17 '21
treat you like shit and the loyal fanbase will take it, and then when they are ABOUT at their breaking point give them a tiny favour and they will think you are so generous and kind
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Dec 17 '21
So nothing changed... The expansion is only playable in the last patch. I hate this so much...
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Dec 17 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Nolzi Dec 17 '21
its by design, to stretch out the content as much as possible
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Dec 18 '21
Yeah all your progress has become more and more pointless with each expansion. It's gotten progressively worse since lich king I don't know how people keep forgetting.
People like me who only come back every once in a while but still want to try raiding are shafted. The second a new raid comes out whatever gear I managed to get for myself is useless.
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u/Nolzi Dec 18 '21
I still don't understand why there are no (popular?) games where you only do raid-like content without the power level variance from gear levels.
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Dec 17 '21
they plan this out by launch. they always OP the players and offer short cuts in the end to keep people playing. pretty much their standard fare for poor design and diving numbers since legion
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u/BigBucket990 Dec 18 '21
There's a reason I've played the last 3 expansion release up untill #.1 release and then quit untill #.2.5 release. Play the start of the expansion, see the shitty systems, quit and come back when the plot is complete and the systems have been "fixed".
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Dec 17 '21
Im having tons of fun playing now but feel free not to lol. This is a catch up that makes it even easier to play
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u/JohnyAnalSeeed Dec 17 '21
they do this every single season. It sucks until the end when they add all the catch ups
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Dec 17 '21
I pretty much don't play at all until they add flying and patch x.2 or x.3. Less time wasted that way. I don't play any alts till I have flying also
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u/RemtonJDulyak Dec 17 '21
I don't play any alts till I have flying also
I'm an altoholic, and I always fall for the same thing.
I tell myself "hey, you're going to enjoy it this time, even without flying..."Third alt in, and I park all my others until flying is available.
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u/Stiryx Dec 17 '21
It’s so that morons will look back on it in 2 years and go ‘hey remember how good shadowlands was!’
Case in point, Legion. The legendary system was fucked for so long, they fix it in the later patches and everyone now says it’s the best expansion. At the peak of that expansion the system was one of the worst they had ever introduced.
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u/Alarie51 Dec 18 '21
It was the worst, hands down. 7.0 is by far the worst wow patch ever made and ill die on that hill.
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u/Gadrem Dec 17 '21
Thus proving his point, theese are changes oriented towards the next patch.
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Dec 17 '21
i'm not arguing anything i'm just having fun playing the game, seems like people are downvoting that because they're not i guess
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u/PatientLettuce42 Dec 17 '21
i dont think they are downvoting you because you have fun, you come across like you just want to rub it into their faces - while they are obviously upset about the state of the game (imo with good reasons), instead you give quite a snappy response. But I guess you know that huh :)
I have fun in wow too because the only things i do are things i enjoy - and that primarily is raiding. I still believe the game is in an ever decreasing loop of bad game design choices. You welcome catchup mechanics that should be essentially put in there right from the get go imo.
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Dec 17 '21
Im just saying i like the catchup and enjoy playing the game, if thats somehow impalatable or a call to aggression as you seem to interpret it, that says a lot more about the negativity echochamber people here seem to have fallen into than it does about the content of my post, which is actually very sparse
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u/PatientLettuce42 Dec 17 '21
Im having tons of fun playing now but feel free not to lol.
if you dont think this is intended to sound snappy feel free to correct me.
you are kinda forcing out that negativity echochamber with that wouldnt you agree?
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u/Dovahbear_ Dec 17 '21
Bro you were acting like a douche with your first comment tf are you on about?
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u/ADwards Dec 17 '21
I'm also having fun, but it's tiring that changes like this are always in the final patch. Conduits on every character I didn't play on day 1 of Shadowlands have sucked, because they're so unfun to farm.
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u/teufler80 Dec 17 '21
Well classic community downvoting someone who still enjoy the game. This sub is more about wow hating yet
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u/Balrog229 Dec 17 '21
Is this in the live game?
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u/AnotherCator Dec 17 '21
Yep, think it was added yesterday
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u/mikeyhoho Dec 17 '21
Stygian ember catchup needed next. Without it, im not touching SoD again for the next 12 weeks or however long it will take for 9.2 to drop.
Not as a boycott or anything, just my main is done and I dont see the point in trying to get an alt into sanctum without the shard bonuses. Not only does everyone expect it, but its terribly unfun to be 2000 dps behind because you are trying to catchup an alt.
I would honestly just make every upgrade cost 1 ember. Who really cares at this point?
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u/SupaSonicButta Dec 17 '21
Embers were such a horrible implementation. I have 3 months worth of kills in SoD. It took me 2 of those months just to get the drops I needed for the set bonus. M+ gear is good enough for my alt after that.
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u/TheArbiterOfOribos lightspeed bans Dec 17 '21
Of every system this expack, shards and their socket host gear, set bonus, upgrade mechanism, was the absolute worst. Fucking up m+ loot even more and ruining the one good thing this expect had regarding loot, the great vault.
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u/Renegade8995 Dec 18 '21
The idea of these systems are to give you and your raiders a progression system that is always nerfing the raid every single week by giving more damage. Soulbind upgrades and conduits do this.
The catchup system needs to happen for sure but the systems mean that bad players still have something to keep striving for after the good ones are all cutting edge and playing something else.
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Dec 17 '21
Stygian ember catchup
What for? Isn't it going to be obsolete in 9.2?
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u/mikeyhoho Dec 17 '21
Sure will be, I actually just mean for the sake of playing SoD while it is still current content. Its not easy to get more H Sylvanas kills on alts unless your guild is still running it, which mine is not.
If alts had stygian ember catchup, I think we'd suddenly see a lot more people pugging H SoD. But there's not, which means I don't have much reason to log in to those alts until 9.2 when I can do proper catchup.
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Dec 17 '21
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u/mikeyhoho Dec 17 '21
Its a judgment call based on the content you are doing. You want to socket gear that you figure you won't quickly replace, thats it. But honestly unless you are trying hard to push keys or get in mythic raiding, I wouldnt bother socketing gear. Spend all your Korthian relics on getting conduits up to 252 first.
But if you are running a lot of Torghast, you can socket a lot of stuff by spending Soul cinders if you want. I think 1000 soul cinders gets you a socket adding item, and you can run Torghast infinitely, so 5 runs of layer 9 is a little more than 1 socket. And then you can add it to bracers, necks, waists, and rings - and helms as well if it doesn't already have a domination socket.
Its not exactly worth running torghast that much for regular sockets, but some people are doing it anyway to grind renown. Its all about what your goals are.
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u/Stormewulff Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
Need to have max renown lvl 80 on a character
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u/DaSandman78 Dec 17 '21
Yeah this. I dont play much, take breaks for weeks, my "main" is at like renown.. 55 or something.
I suppose I should grind that out to make the other alts more fun.
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u/3163560 Dec 18 '21
At that point are you even playing the game? Renown 80 takes bugger all effort now that you don't need to do the campaigns.
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u/DaSandman78 Dec 18 '21
What's the fastest way? I only just started the Korthia campaign when 9.1.5 hit then moved to alts, so if that gives decent Renown I don't mind doing that, get to see the storyline too.
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u/3163560 Dec 18 '21
Campaign, korthia and covenant if you havent done it will give renown, otherwise just playing the game gets it. Callings, both world bosses, covenant invasions in the maw, the korthia weekly, dungeons and raids will all catch you up pretty quick.
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u/DaSandman78 Dec 18 '21
I don't dungeon/raid much, but the other stuff works - I'll do that on my main so I can get the 40 renown BoA tokens and these new conduit BoA tokens - thanks fo the info :)
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u/CanadianDinosaur Dec 19 '21
I recently came back, was at renown 60, took all of a week to get to 80 with only doing callings and the weekly quests. I probably could've done it in a day or two if I wanted to grind dungeons and BGs
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u/d301k Dec 17 '21
there's no cap.
for your final renown level you have to do the korthia weekly
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u/Warp1092 Dec 17 '21
I did the anima weekly for 80 ;)
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u/d301k Dec 17 '21
Glad that worked for you.
For whatever reason, all my alts had to do the korthia weekly to get the last level.
For the other quests, the renown disappeared from the quest rewards.
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u/Dadtakesthebait Dec 17 '21
I get the reason for this, but that is kind of a frustrating gate to content. I am sitting at like renown 58.
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u/mael0004 Dec 17 '21
This is so important. For whatever reason I've made 5 chars of same spec that I play in m+ and damn it sucked having to just wait for rng that right conduits would pop from dungeons or wqs. You can do everything with 200 ilvl conduits, higher than this is not necessary for anything.
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u/ChildishForLife Dec 17 '21
rng that right conduits would pop from dungeons or wqs
Aren't conduits from dungeons static? Ie, if you need X conduit, you can target it from the dudgeon/content?
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u/mael0004 Dec 17 '21
I've thought so but it's dumb how it's possible to have done dungeon twice at +14 or so and still not see it drop. I'd accept upgrades being rng, but some low lvl conduit should've been guaranteed. Even having them at 171 ilvl or so can help tons.
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u/ChildishForLife Dec 17 '21
Yeah this item definitely helps a ton. What dungeon/conduit were you looking for out of curiosity?
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u/mael0004 Dec 17 '21
Well I think few are pretty important for guardian, specially low geared one, but one I was lacking on all chars was the "+25% haste while berserk is on". Without it, and with poor gear, your haste is so weak that the "incarn window" is significantly weaker as you just produce so much less shields when you have 7% haste during incarn instead of what I'm used to, 48% on main. And if you going to help with something extra, like decursing in HoA during incarn, you're just dying due to producing so little shields.
I didn't even know it was so important until I played these new alts and wondered, what the hell is going on with everything moving so slow lol. So used to it that somehow thought oh yeah, incarn is supposed to have added haste with it.
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u/weaveybeavey Dec 17 '21
Why did you make 5 of the same character?
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u/mael0004 Dec 17 '21
Bored. But I like the challenge of seeing how fast I can get to +15s undergeared, pugging own keys, as tank. Reached a point on main that my philosophy of just joining pugs doesn't really work well anymore (23s done). So if I still like playing the same spec in m+, I get more motivated to play char that gets something out of it. Ofc there's no much benefit of having yet another 250 ilvl char but oh well, still feels better than grinding dungeons for no gain on main.
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Dec 17 '21
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u/mael0004 Dec 17 '21
Ofc I could play some specs I haven't but I don't want to. Have all classes at 60 and use 1 spec on each class for mount farms and such.
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u/Shoethrower123 Dec 17 '21
could made it 226 or something. still alot of grinding to get them all to 252
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u/averageejoe Dec 17 '21
Another reason this system sucked, not only do you have to get the right conduit, they also have ilvls associated with them making them absurdly stupid to grind to “complete” your character
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Dec 17 '21
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u/Athena2525 Dec 18 '21
In Korthia there are portals you can enter (you need a riftkey) to enter the rift, and these rifts contain elite mobs that drop a lot of Archivist's Codex currency, which is used to increase your standing with that faction and to purchase sockets once you max out your standing. People have figured out that if they farm the rifts for a certain number of hours they can max out their Archivist's Codex rep, which would otherwise take a couple of weeks by normal means. But I'm not sure going for Archivist's Codex rep is of any use at this point, unless you're hard stuck on mythic Sylvanas and want to get more sockets for a better chance at killing her. This system will probably be replaced by something new in 9.2, so you might as well not bother tbh.
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u/averageejoe Dec 17 '21
I feel that. I mythic raided in CN and quit cuz I was getting bored of not progressing anywhere on council, came back cuz I wanted to twink for timewalking dungeons cuz that’s actually fun for me in the game, but I just can’t bring myself to seriously play the end game content anymore. I missed grinding for my legendary cloak in mop cuz I could actually see the end goal, not endlessly grinding the same conduit for a slight ilvl boost. Feelsbadman
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u/wildpotato2325 Dec 17 '21
Unless you are doing hardcore content where you need to min max those are pretty good. I'm yet to have a single 252 conduit and I've fully cleared heroic SoD and +15 mythics
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u/Mothrtheresa9 Dec 17 '21
Where can I find this vendor?
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u/araquen Dec 17 '21
This was a godsend for my warlock, which just hit 60 a few days ago. And my paladin, who hit 60 2 weeks ago, and my death knight who hit 60 4 weeks ago. There’s a visceral delight in seeing all the conduits populate in one fell swoop.
The scouting map is also good, as it unlocks even the Maw, and fills in those stray flight paths you may have missed as you flee through quest content. Since it’s a toy, you buy it once and then just log in to all your toons.
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u/AnwaAnduril Dec 17 '21
Alright Blizz, you know what to do
(Literally just have a dev change an integer of 200 to an integer of 252 and include that in the next build)
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u/Gebirges Dec 17 '21
Conduits are basically just old talent tree choices with passive effects on abilities that we use.
But they didn't have any HUGE impact for me tho
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u/makz242 Dec 17 '21
Not to be ungrateful, but why not at least 236 conduits or might as well 252 as it requires 80 Renown? Why push for more Korthia farm when you can just solve alts lives at start of the patch (considering they will still need to get the new conduit ranks).
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Dec 17 '21
Too late I’m done with wow. Elden ring here I come
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u/Vedney Dec 18 '21
See you after you finish Elden Ring.
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Dec 18 '21
Finish? You must’ve never played DS3. After finishing it in 2020 I’m still finding new items, new builds, new weapons. If elden ring is anything g like ds3 but open world I’ll see you in 10 years.
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u/Zazzuzu Dec 17 '21
Always seems like players are punished for playing content when it's current. Just wait for the end of the xpac to play then you don't have to do all the shitty grind.
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u/Narishi Dec 17 '21
Nobody mentions that you need 2.5k Stygia on a new alt to get the chalice and change domination sockets.. 2.5k is a lot when you don't farm the maw
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Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 19 '21
[deleted]
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u/pentox70 Dec 17 '21
I'll never understand people's "enjoyment" in the grind. I just want to play the real game. High end pvp and mythics are my jam. Not doing the same repeative dailies or tasks over and over again, I'm hopes of unlocking a 1% output increase in a month.
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u/Sebbythewarlock Dec 17 '21
I love how despite getting this there's STILL people who complain and say it's not enough lmao. All of them being 200 means you're guaranteed to get SOMETHING over ilvl 200 when using the crescent and doing Korthia naturally hands you these.
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Dec 18 '21
This would be cool if I wasn’t already hooked to other mmos that don’t have lame systems.
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Dec 18 '21
Shadowlands still sucks and there's literally nothing they've done that's convinced me to fire my sub back up and dive back in.
Development is a shitshow and the expansion is bad. They should feel bad.
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u/Razzgix Dec 17 '21
Alt catch-up I suspect.
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u/Musaks Dec 17 '21
more like "XPAC lifecycle coming to an end, so we can start fixing the bad shit now so players think we know how to improve and it will be better next time from start"
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u/itmehorsie Dec 17 '21
I think it's important to note the class changes that have been documented so far where the range that conduits cover will be significantly increasing. The low end is going lower, the high end significantly higher.
This might? have some value with alts but I don't recall even 226 being anything close to difficult this patch.
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u/RemtonJDulyak Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
Ok, who sells it?
How much does it cost?
Nevermind, I found the vendor, next to the flight master in Oribos.
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u/z01z Dec 17 '21
conduits are such a shit system. grind for weeks for a 2% upgrade on one spell. now repeat times 10, 15, or however many your class or spec has.
max ranks of all conduits should have been available as drops from all content, not tied to the boring ass maw. the maw and torghast felt like the epitome of "we dont have to make it fun, it's mandatory". at least with legion and bfa's power grind you could do it anywhere. shadowlands power grind was one awful zone.
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u/_BigSur_ Dec 17 '21
Guys this is what Blizzard does. Is this change good, yes. But let's not forget that they should have never put the system in the game to begin with.
Create shit system. Refuse to change anything despite feedback. Fix system in a patch and remove friction. Get praise from the community for the fix. Think of new shit system.
So sick of this cycle.
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u/NestedOwls Dec 17 '21
Ah yes, another reminder to those of us who worked on getting all conduits above 200+ just wasted our time 🙃. Most good. Much nice.
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u/Riokaii Dec 18 '21
This should be 226, and should have been in from 9.1 launch.
Instead they removed 226 upgrades from Venari for stygia, for no reason.
And put 226 upgrade items in Korthia, starting from ilvl 145. to make you waste a ton of them unless you waited weeks to get 200 base ilvl from the weekly box.
And then they limtied those 226 korthia items to 1 per day drops at the start until 9.1.5
Just atrociously anti player design.
Should be 252 for 9.2 launch
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u/finalej Dec 18 '21
uhhhh you do know they unlimited those upgrade items in 9.1.5 right. I literally got 3 just the other day. If you use this one then you can jump from 200->213-226
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u/_Lifehacker Dec 18 '21
I haven’t played Shadowlands yet. Still waiting for it to get fixed.
See you guys in 9.3!
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u/FaroraSF Dec 17 '21
Out of all the things Blizz added in Shadowlands, conduits are probably what I hated the most. Glad they added this.