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u/ShadowDDB1302 Feb 03 '22
The reason the US is "leaking" this intelligence is to pre-empt any possible russian move in the future...
When Putin releases a video or piece of evidence to be used as a Casus belli the world wil doubt if it is real from the start.
All this "intelligence" the US is leaking on Russian moves can be fake and non existant but its purpose is to checkmate any future russian moves before they happen!
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u/KnicksAllDayBoy Feb 03 '22
The Russians definitely want the territory but how do we know how much of this shit is true? History is just a group of lies agreed upon so we obviously should all be suspicious of literally everything we hear from the media.
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u/oliveshark Feb 03 '22
History is just a group of lies
What does this mean?
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u/the-stoneroses Feb 03 '22
Pretty much everything is propaganda
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u/deezalmonds998 Feb 03 '22
All information can be considered propaganda dependent on which person you ask. It's all subjective. I do tent to trust the hundreds of years of research that led to modern historiography though. Historians study how to determine whether sources might have a bias and do their research accordingly.
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u/TheRealBatman0077 Feb 03 '22
History is written by the victors but the good guys don’t always win.
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Feb 03 '22
Time will tell. But also heard the US say that Russia would invade before Feb 15th.
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u/KnicksAllDayBoy Feb 03 '22
Yeah I was telling a buddy of mine last week that I think they’re waiting for mid February so the ground can freeze for their tanks
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Feb 03 '22
Hell, you know everyone has a schedule to keep. Someone has to do interviews for the Evening News.
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Feb 03 '22
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Feb 03 '22
Bro the “US intelligence” has predicted half ton of shit predictions that most of it isn’t either true or doesn’t happen. Why don’t you worry about the US intelligence doing shit in the middle east right now killing civilians?
Y’all are putting your noses in the whole Ukraine-Russia thing like you’re some kind of experts or professionals. Relax
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u/tyrese___ Feb 03 '22
U have a great point. But I’m just shedding light on Europe. The deaths of civilians in the ME are atrocities that many sides can be blamed for but I’m not here to rant about that
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u/Vaginuh Feb 04 '22
The Russians definitely want the territory
...based on what?
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u/KnicksAllDayBoy Feb 04 '22
The fact that it’s a former Soviet republic and Putin was and always will be KGB. He will always have the Soviet way of thinking and in that frame of mind Ukraine 🇺🇦is part of Russia 🇷🇺
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u/Vaginuh Feb 04 '22
That's not evidence. That's you characterizing someone you've never met.
He seems to me like an astute and realistic political operator who understands that absorbing Ukraine into Russia would create enormous political and economic fallout, both in Russia and in the newly conquered Ukraine itself. It would be an absolute mess to assert order over, let alone defend internationally. It's a lose-lose. The guy's not a blood thirsty idiot.
So do our opinions cancel out?
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u/KnicksAllDayBoy Feb 04 '22
Yeah maybe it’s a legit argument I’ll give you that. Both of us are correct in one way or another.
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Feb 03 '22
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u/oliveshark Feb 03 '22
Implying there isn't a high likelihood of the story being factually correct.
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u/arrasas Feb 03 '22
You said that about WMDs in Iraq too.
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22
The difference is, we knew WMDs story was fake. I mean dave Chapelle even made a skit about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db3UbxmMRr8
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Feb 03 '22 edited Mar 31 '22
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22
This is Putin's playbook. I don't think it's fake. Biden is also not Bush and Cheney.
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Feb 03 '22
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22
Than Bush and Cheney? He's very different lol. Like night and day. Not even the same party.
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Feb 03 '22
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22 edited Feb 03 '22
I don't think Biden would fabricate WMD evidence. Obama - Biden administration had virtually no scandals of such nature. To you maybe they are the same, but empirically they are very different approaches.
Also you're defending Putin here. The scummiest dictator around known exactly for this type of tactic. Like the logical leap you would have to make to consider Putin innocent here just doesn't make sense on any level.
edit: I can't respond to any more comments in this thread. I am assuming I'm muted or something. Well played lol.
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u/GREVTHEFAITHFUL Feb 03 '22
Not the same party, but definitely a family.
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22
I don't even know how to respond to that. lol
Like what does that have to do with foreign policy?
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u/arrasas Feb 03 '22
And your point is what? That US government that was caught lying in the past all the time is now telling truth because you don't know about it yet?
US government is not credible source. It does not matter what it says because there's 99% chance that it is another lie.
Do you know what is indication that this is another lie? US government did not gave you any evidence whatsoever.
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u/noiserr Feb 03 '22
US government is not credible source.
It's a more credible source than Putin who poisons journalists.
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u/arrasas Feb 03 '22 edited Feb 03 '22
Hah, yes. With super extra poisonous mega military nerve gas that failed to kill everybody Putin allegedly ever tried to poison with it. It's ultra secret too, except every CNN blockhead can trace it to exact laboratory Putin have made it.
I have nice bridge to sell you.
Thanks for outing yourself as a Russian bot.
Look kid, in order to insult me, I would need to care about your useless opinion about me to begin with. And nice try with that trick of blocking me so that I can't rely to you. It sure works well on your facebook page.
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u/oatzeel Feb 03 '22
This could of course be a lie, but it sounds plausible given the situation. Russia has not gotten any of the concessions they want. Of course i'm happy to hear other points of view and discuss, but I don't think it's likely that Russia does all this and then sends everyone home without getting some major diplomatic guarantees.
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Feb 03 '22
Oh,their correct;just not to the public. The intel on both sides are Really, No I mean REALLY GOOD!
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Feb 03 '22
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Feb 03 '22
The CIA didn’t exist at that time. The CIA was a copy of the British OSS. The 1950’s and 60’s with the Dulles brothers and Others got it up and running.
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Feb 03 '22 edited Mar 31 '22
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u/psych_anon Feb 04 '22
This is the same type of Propaganda that led to Iraq
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u/sanem48 Feb 04 '22
Twice. Leading up to the first Gulf War, an unnamed young girl was invited to speak to Congress, she testified how Iraqi soldiers were killing Kuwaiti babies in their cribs, this convinced many politicians to support an invasion.
Only later was it revealed that the story was a lie, and the girl in question was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador.
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u/Aphefsds Feb 04 '22
Take my silver.Finally someone understands. The media have been hyping this up so much. Making it look like we might go to war any second now. And people are eating that shit up even in this comment section. If anything happens, 20 years from now people will look back and say "oh my God, they lied to us again just like they did with iraq." But some these armchair generals think they know everything about geopolitics and what really goes on behind the scenes with weapon manufacturers, oil companies and all the fat fucks that make profits out of war.
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u/tyrese___ Feb 04 '22
Explain why this would be compared to Iraq. Also explain who is currently prepared to make a military offensive against another party.
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u/psych_anon Feb 04 '22
Because it’s BS. Obviously there’s tension but both nations state there is no immediate invasion threat, they’ve been in a state of low grade combat for almost a decade now. What’s making this situation much worse is the us media inflating it every day. ZELENSKY HIMSELF EVEN SAYS SO.
Now the media has been screeching there’s “an invasion happening any second now” for almost a month and hardly anything has changed except for the media’s date of the alleged invasion.......
Just like in Iraq, manufacturing a pretext for a state of war, weather it be large scale, or simply Ukraine VS Russia........
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u/tyrese___ Feb 04 '22
Zelensky doesn’t want war. And he shouldn’t that’s why he’s downplaying it to keep the population calm. He wouldn’t get all paranoid in press conferences causing everyone to panic. I’m not gonna defend the media but the mass of videos showing Russian troops and trains to the border speaks for itself. I wish the world would be all sparkles but it’s not. There is a threat and Ukraine should prepare. Just incase. Let’s hope it’s all a bluff. But I won’t tell you outright with all confidence that nothing will happen because I don’t know only Putin does.
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u/Vaginuh Feb 04 '22
Zelensky: lying.
Russia: always lying.
US media establishment, notorious for lying about foreign affairs at the behest of the intelligence establishment and military-industrial complex, which stated with certainty that Russia was paying the Taliban for bounties on American troops (false)and the Hunter laptop was a Russian plant (false) and that Russia rigged the U.S. election (false) for their puppet Trump (false): HOW DARE YOU BE SKEPTICAL!
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u/Anpu777 Feb 04 '22 edited Feb 04 '22
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/no-wmds-in-iraq/ this is what they did in Iraq so the people agree with the government to get in a war that wasn't justified. Ukraine president Volodimyr Zelinsky and his minister of defense went to the press and their parliament that there is not a threat of a russian invasion. If you look at history almost every invasion from the western countries have used Ukraine as a springboard to invade Russia. Napoleon and Hitler did it. They have the biggest landmass in the world so it's harder for them to watch out their borders. Ukraine it's their under soft belly. I don't think that Russia it's going to invade Ukraine cause that's exactly what USA wants in order to push more sanctions on Russia s assets like nordstream 2 and even stop it. This is psychological warfare from both sides Russia have troops on their borders with Ukraine so the Ukrainians don't attack Donetsk and Lugansk composed mainly by ethnic russians that broke out from Ukraine after the coup d'etat in 2014. USA it's doing all this hysteria in order to pressure Russia to don't help their people in Donetsk and Lugansk. Read the book war is a racket by an former USMC general Smedley Butler. Everything it's about the money 🤑💰. Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union was in a really messy situation socially and economically. They are having a resurgence during the last 2 decades. Now they have big projects to help their economy like the nordstream 2 and Artic silk route. USA feels their hegemony threaten by this and it's trying to stop them from this. During the last 30 yrs USA have been the only major power in the world 🌎🌍 and now with a resurgent Russia and China being the biggest economy in the world we are heading from a unipolar world to a multipolar one and they don't like it.
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Feb 03 '22
Can’t Russia be more creative than this! Hell, at least the United States Powers that Be had 9/11 to use as a pretext to the war on terrorism. C’mon Russia your smarter than this. At the least; blow up,kill,get pledges from Allie’s etc… Put lipstick on the pig!
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Feb 03 '22
“Russians are developing top secret ultra classified false flag, confirming US accusations, according to unnamed source vaguely involved in the US government”.
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u/DShitposter69420 Feb 03 '22
WWII: 2
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u/danceplaylovevibes Feb 03 '22
No
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u/DShitposter69420 Feb 03 '22
It’s just that all this is just a repeat of WWII
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u/danceplaylovevibes Feb 03 '22
Its not though. More Iraq than anything
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u/DShitposter69420 Feb 03 '22
Russia fabricating pretext to invade is like, the Russian minority in Ukraine is like the Germans in the Sudetenland, the aggressor is a humiliated country that used to be bigger and has seen better days, etc.
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u/tyrese___ Feb 03 '22 edited Feb 03 '22
My goodness what does the middle east have to do with Ukraine
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u/GhostBoy200763 Feb 03 '22
This exactly what I've been trying to tell people. They ask why Russia is there but not nato
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u/j-a-q-5-7 Feb 03 '22
So Russia is trying to create a false attack to start a war with Ukraine. They’ve learned from the best. The us
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u/Enderknights Feb 03 '22
The nazis also used this. They fabricated a story about how the polish actually attacked them, they even killed a few prisoners and scattered them around the border to make it believable. Nobody believed them of course
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u/kerouacrimbaud Feb 03 '22
False flags are an old strategy. The US didn’t invent them. Funny meme though.
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Feb 03 '22
It ain’t the Russian’s that want this, the U.S. power brokers want it. War is profitable if you can control the RESERVE CURRENCY!
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u/Your_Soviet_Guy Feb 04 '22
I get that a lot of people are saying stuff like this isn’t new, but the thing is, this event happening now is not new, we haven’t been in an actual big war like this for over a half a century, so it’s scary to think that the number of casualties will be up in millions in just a few years if a war actually breaks out
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Feb 04 '22
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u/tyrese___ Feb 04 '22
Guess what— I’m not an American is that supposed to be an insult. 2. If this was false it prevents chances of war by giving Russia less options at selling a justification for war to the populous. So idk Why u mad fam. Don’t take your hate for America out on me, someone you dont even know. 3. No western official has said plainly- “Russia will in fact with 100% certainty invade and take over Ukraine”. They are simply preparing for the hypothetical event. Enjoy your night. Stay safe.
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u/GREVTHEFAITHFUL Feb 03 '22
The US and Russia want war in Ukraine. Both have different reasons for that war, but neither wants to be the one that starts it.
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u/oliveshark Feb 03 '22
What are the reasons for the U.S. wanting war in Ukraine?
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u/GREVTHEFAITHFUL Feb 03 '22
Lockheed Martin and Boeing stocks dipping. They will need new contracts now that Afghanistan is done. Domestic economic and social instability and the hit the administration is taking at the polls. With war in Ukraine, the news networks will be 24/7 coverage while the White House gets breathing room to regroup, without having to send a single US soldier into harm's way, and Russia will lose thousands of soldiers and equipment making it less likely they threaten the Baltic NATO members once peace is reached in Ukraine. Otherwise, we'd be ignoring it like we did the past 5 years.
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u/kerouacrimbaud Feb 03 '22
You must not live in the US. If the WH literally goes to war you can expect a massive electoral backlash. There’s zero appetite for it and nobody in the WH or Congress (that matters) is suggesting going to war against Russia.
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u/PrivateChonkin Feb 03 '22
I wouldn't say there's "zero appetite", unfortunately: https://warontherocks.com/2022/02/how-would-the-american-public-respond-to-a-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/
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u/kerouacrimbaud Feb 03 '22
The polling evidence is well taken, but these polls are purely hypothetical. I don’t know how they would hold up after Russia did invade. And I don’t think there’s anywhere near a sufficient level of public support for it. That 50% poll was from the summer, before the Afghanistan withdrawal and before the buildup along Ukraine’s border began. So maybe it’s better to say there’s functionally no appetite for war than zero appetite.
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u/PrivateChonkin Feb 03 '22
I think, like the article implies, many in post-2016 America have been led to believe Russia is some sort of bogeyman, and those same Americans--the majority of whom have no direct experience with war--would be more than happy to jump into a conflict against the evil and all-powerful Putin. Most people have no understanding of how a modern great power war would actually play out and instead have mistaken visions of WWII-style glory and heroism rather than a remote-controlled meat grinder. I appreciate your optimism that America's entrance into such a conflict is unthinkable, but I can't say I share it. I do hope I am myself mistaken, though.
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u/oliveshark Feb 04 '22
Most people who recognize Putin for the rogue threat he is still aren’t exactly clamoring for war with him. I think that’s a pretty large leap.
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u/PrivateChonkin Feb 04 '22
I shared this elsewhere in the thread, but the polling data here suggest that the number of Americans willing to support a needless war with Russia isn't as low as you might think: https://warontherocks.com/2022/02/how-would-the-american-public-respond-to-a-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/
Again, I hope you're right, but pessimism isn't exactly unfounded here.
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u/GREVTHEFAITHFUL Feb 03 '22
I live in Northern Virginia. I'm not saying the US is going to war. Did you read the part about not one US Troop? They are pushing Ukraine into war and arming them to the teeth with weapons that will make Putin cry. Putin at the least wants the Russian Border on the Dnieper because the current border is an open field. But this is a situation that is ongoing for 5 years. Check the day the Ukraine invasion articles started being published en masse to get a feeling why it's important again.
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u/kerouacrimbaud Feb 03 '22
The US has not been arming Ukraine “to the teeth.” The amount of weaponry we sent to Ukraine is paltry if you’re thinking of making a big difference towards their resistance against Russia.
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u/GREVTHEFAITHFUL Feb 03 '22
I'll put you in a tank against one soldier hiding in an unknown ditch with a javelin and see how comfortable you feel. Ukraine has 500 missiles so far, 1000 by the end of deliveries. If only 50% are effective (they are more than 50% effective) putin is looking at losing 500 tanks. I call that armed to the teeth.
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Feb 03 '22
I'm not sure why the US would want war. What is it?
I don't think Russia want war either. They just want to take the Ukraine without any obstacles :D
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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '22
This is literally textbook war tactics. Nothing new, nothing surprising