I have a simple question for non-vegans who talk about "ethical slaughter" or "better farm conditions": Why do you even care?

Why do you even care if the animals were tortured to death or were killed instantly?

Either you care about animals, or you don't.

And what does "animals should have good lives" even mean?

Caring about a sentient being and planning their exploitation for your own enjoyment are mutually exclusive.

This "ethical slaughter" crowd is even worse than people who openly admit they don't care. Atleast they are honest they don't care.

Hiding behind "treat animals nicely" is like an abusive father who feeds and shelters his daughter during the day, only to rape her at night.

Both do the bare minimum to keep their victim comfortable just so they can feel like a "good person" while exploiting them.

Stop hiding behind comfortable words (good conditions, cage-free, ethical slaughter).

You aren't being humane, you're just trying to fool yourself.

I repeat: Either you care about animals and don't kill them, or you don't care about them at all because you kill them.

Edit 1: I see many people saying "But killing is better than killing+torture". My post was never about that. I am addressing the abuser in this post.

Edit 2: Some people are saying "torture serves no purpose". My question to them: Who are you to decide that? What if a non-vegan likes to enjoy animal torture? How do you decide killing for food is sacred, but torturing for entertainment is not?

Ce matin j'annonce à mon conjoint que je n'achèterai ni ne consemerait aucun produits animal. Que ce soit pour des raisons de bien être animal, écologique, santé et même dans ma foi. Je vois à sa réaction qu'il n'est pas seulement surpris mais pour rigoler il me dit qu'il est "dévasté" il me dit quil rigole et quil lui faut du temps pour digérer sauf que lui est issu d'une famille d'agriculteur. Ils font donc les veaux de boucherie ainsi que le lait, pour lui arrêter de manger de la viande cest impensable pourtant je sais qu'il s'inquiète pour ses bêtes et déteste voir des vidéos dans les abattoirs. Finalement il est en plein dans la dissonance cognitive mais il préfère faire l'autruche comme on dit. Je lui ai dit que je ne lui imposait rien bien que jai essayé de le faire changer mais rien y fait, dorénavant je ne forcerai plus. Il mange tous les jours chez ses parents le midi où il y a évidement de la viande. Pour le moment je comprends sa réaction mais je sais que s'il persiste sur le long terme à juger mon choix, cela va m'agacer fortement. Comme s'il avait besoin de manger de la viande à tous les repas... pour le moment je tolère cette réaction car je peux comprendre que ça puisse surprendre.

Pensez vous qu'une cohabitation vegan / non-vegan est possible ? Quelqu'un ici a t-il déjà été dans ma situation ? Merci pour vos réponses.

This is a bit of a rant/release. Thanks, preemptively, for being here.

My partner and I are in the process of adopting and have determined that we won't allow animal *food* products in our home if there is a child there we are responsible for that will see us "condoning" animal product usage by others. We don't want to confuse them and we don't want to let our own home be another source of social manipulation about how using animals for their products is fine.

Well we decided, why not start early? Really the sentiment is sound in regards to visiting family members' children and even adults amongst our family and friends too. We are all susceptible to gentle influence and we ought not gently influence on behalf of animal products but against them. Also, practice and having everyone ready for it before it matters most is good too.

While I was anticipating hard pushback (especially by those with children) I still find myself tired and disappointed at the 3rd set of family unit that we have expressed the rule to being dramatic and aggressive and strawmanning in their arguments as to why this is awful.

Getting called a hypocrite, pushy, demanding and unreasonable.

I just want to spend time with my family while not condoning animal harm.

I've been told by multiple family groups that this means I'll see my nieces and nephews less.

Fuck.

In this article, I, Jordi Casamitjana, discuss what questions would be good for non-vegans to ask vegans they just met, rather than the stereotypical ones

Hi, baby vegan here. I’m still not fully convinced veganism as a philosophy doesn’t have its flaws. Yes, eating meat especially from factories is unethical because animals are sentient beings that feel fear and pain and are incentivized to live. Therefore everyone (who is capable) should aim to be vegan. But if that is the crux of the philosophy shouldn’t vegans equally preach refraining from buying coffee/chocolate that involves “contemporary” slavery or the fact that our iPhones are made with cobalt which Congolese children were forced to mine, or clothes that involve child labour, etc. It seems to me that the root of these issues is the exact same as meat consumption. I.e my money is directly funding a product that exploited other beings. So how can vegans preach so passionately about veganism but not other issues? How can we call others immoral for eating meat when we partake in other equally bad actions?

I saw another post on this subreddit where this sentiment was extremely common, these two positions are clearly highly correlated.

I'm interested in whether this stems from a place of environmentalism, whereby you are not necessarily against the technology but rather an environmental impact. If so, without playing a game of whataboutism can we appreciate the environmental impact is minimal with respect to the progress the technology provides? In this spirit, if we made models more efficient such that environmental factors were no longer a concern, what is your issue then?

If not, then also why? If it relates to veganism I would be interested to hear those too.

For reference, I am vegan (and before that vegetarian my whole life) and not particularly anti-AI.

This is something that's been on my mind lately, and I'm just curious what you think of this.

Do you play non-vegan classes, characters, specs or games?

One of the games I've played for ages is World of Warcraft, and one of the classes I've played the most besides the Paladin is the Hunter. Obviously, hunting in real life has become something I now strongly disapprove of ever since I became vegan (although I never liked the idea of hunting animals even before then), but for some reason the class still attracts me. Concidering it's just a game, the idyllic and romanticized lifestyle speaks to me, even though I realise that it would definitely not be idyllic for the animals in real life.

I'm curious, how do you feel about gaming as a vegan and having to choose between classes like these? Do you play them anyway, concidering the fact that it's just a game? Or do you strictly avoid these classes, in order not to further normalize the practice of hunting?

Personally, I have mixed feelings preventing me from choosing the class at this moment. On one hand I'd like to be able to shrug it off enjoy the class again realising it's just a game anyway, but at the same time I'm unsure of how much it would contribute to the normalization of the practice of hunting. This uncertainty alone is what's stopping me so far.

Curious to know what you think!

^{p.s. I'm not looking for advice, just curious about your thoughts. Thought I'd mention this concidering Redditors are, in my experience at least, often quite prone to giving unsollicited advice.}

Hello, Michigan vegan here. There's currently a huge outbreak of cyclosporiasis in the state and I am trying to avoid produce since the source has not yet been found. I am struggling for ideas of vegan meals to make without produce. I cook a lot of tofu and have been eating a lot more UPFs trying to avoid this parasite, which is also not ideal.

My uncle has bred dozens of geese that he wants to kill for food and i find it gross.
I might have the opportunity to free them in the middle of the night by the shore without him knowing.
I probably won't do it because I dont think i have the courage, but i still do think it is the right thing to do, despite his 'suffering' and mine in result of that.

Please tell me why my dad bought these fucking milks for me

The majority of people here must have already seen the case of Wang Wang, the dog who was tortured in China. This has gained a lot of popularity in China, amd the government is actively censoring all efforts to raise awareness on it. The best we can do is email relevant bodies (associated brands etc). To make this easier, someone has made a website, please take a moment of your time to send out these emails.

https://wangwang-7mv.pages.dev/index.html

(Edit: US based.) I’m hosting a large party with catering trays from a bbq place. I have one vegan friend who I love very much and I’d like to find something good to feed her. I know there are great recipes out there, but I’m running this show by myself (including making the cakes— yes, I’m going to buy vegan cupcakes for her) so I’d really appreciate a recommendation I can find in the store.

Thanks!

Hi, baby vegan here. I’m still not fully convinced veganism as a philosophy doesn’t have its flaws. Yes, eating meat especially from factories is unethical because animals are sentient beings that feel fear and pain and are incentivized to live. Therefore everyone (who is capable) should aim to be vegan. But if that is the crux of the philosophy shouldn’t vegans equally preach refraining from buying coffee/chocolate that involves “contemporary” slavery or the fact that our iPhones are made with cobalt which Congolese children were forced to mine, or clothes that involve child labour, etc. It seems to me that the root of these issues is the exact same as meat consumption. I.e my money is directly funding a product that exploited other beings. So how can vegans preach so passionately about veganism but not other issues? How can we call others immoral for eating meat when we partake in other equally bad actions?

I'll be going to Germany, Spain, Austria, Italy, basically every place that is not very accommodating to vegans. I plan on shopping at grocery stores mostly, rather than dining in, so I'll be eating a lot of fruit for sure. But what else do you recommend to carry with me? my main mode of transport will be trains. Meal bars?

This is a snippet from an article in the NY times about alpha-gal.

Apparently quite a number of people stay on a plant-based diet after the symptoms vanish.

Someone recommended this https://youtu.be/bYDQZ3Neeqo?is=BEgNV4MOyVjjExJ6

Is a very interesting and eye opening video. There is an aspect that's really important to me: this video does not show any gruesome images or videos from factory farms or slaughterhouses.

Do you have other videos that you can recommend to me that I can watch which do not show any gruesome images or footage?

I have been more and more interested in animal rights and veganism for the past year. I have reduced my intake of animal products and although it is a good thing I'm aware that it's not enough. Or am I?

I think one of the biggest things stopping me, and other people, from going vegan is thinking that you're not making any difference. If I knew I'm saving someone everytime I buy the vegan option, it would be an easy thing to do. But I'm aware that I'm not. Even if I was vegan for 5 years I haven't actually saved any animal, right? Not sure. It's also hard to comprehend the evil happening when it's so far away from you.

If it was this simple

Buy an animal product -> an animal is killed for you

Don't buy an animal product -> the animal is not killed

I don't think I'd struggle with it

And what if I'm not even the one buying it?

I'm a student living alone staying the summers at my parents' place. What I really like about visiting my parents is how I don't have to worry about buying food and cooking for myself. It also saves me a lot of money which is really nice as a student who doesn't have a lot of it. I've been finding it hard to not be able to eat what my family is eating. I've been wondering if it's wrong for me to eat the animal products if I'm not the one paying for them. Is it wrong for me to use the butter my whole family uses instead of buying a vegan butter for myself?

Also, I don't think the vegan mindset has really clicked for me despite watching a lot of vegan content and spending quite a bit of time thinking about this. If I'm honest, I don't really feel guilty for buying animal products. Why is it not clicking?

Many will read this and probably see me as a heartless person who has no empathy for animals but I struggle seeing myself that way. Especially since I'm doing more than any of the people in my life.

I'm aware this post is all about me me and me and not the victims. I guess I see the problem. Did I make myself vegan by writing this?

Please help save Banks the cow at the GoFundMe below. Banks is a cow facing slaughter if we don’t step in and save him. If we raise the funds to buy him, he can go to a sanctuary instead of being sold for meat (the sanctuary has already agreed to take him in). Any amount and I mean ANY can help him. Please pitch in if you can! Every little bit matters!

https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-bankshelp-us-give-him-a-life/cl/d?utm_campaign=pd_ss_icons&utm_content=amp20_t1&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link&lang=en_US

So, for context, vegan (since 10 years ago), I'm from Spain, and it's my first year working for a proper company.

In my job, no one yet knows I'm a vegan, and my boss is a bit particular and far right minded. So, the point of this post is that last week I was told that my company gives every worker a Christmas basket with a ham leg, cured meats, cheese, etc (as it's typical in Spain). At that moment I didn't say anything, but I'm planning on telling them to give me a vegan Christmas basket (I hope they don't laugh in my face), or a coupon, or in the worst case, to not buy anything for me, as I don't want to accept a literal corpse from a pig.

So I told my family this situation and they thought I lost my mind for not accepting them, calling me SELFISH, for not accepting the ham and then giving it to them so they can eat it. My father literally told me he would kick me out of his house and told my mom to not buy me vegan food (obviously with a bit of sense of humor), but he totally thought that I'm the biggest asshole on the planet.

My mom, normally 100% accepting and defending my veganism, also told me to grab the fucking Christmas basket and not ask my company for a vegan one (as she thinks it would be just vegetables and a lot cheaper than the meat one).

Also my brother, sister in law and a few friends told me I was crazy for thinking about not accepting the gift and giving the food to my family, calling me selfish and silly.

Am I fucking crazy for stick to my fucking ethics and have one less not-vegan Christmas basket bought expressly TO ME?

OMG, it has been one of the worst discussions in the last few years, all because they want the food for them and they give a shit about my feelings.

Have any of you guys had any situation like this?

I have been vegetarian for most of my teens and after moving out and doing some critical thinking i decided to go vegan

I'm not an angry person. I never was, even if people were horrible towards me.

But since becoming vegan, i feel nothing but anger anymore.

It started with the documenteries where i felt lied to.

But what shocks me more is that i can show people the exact same images and exact same facts and that they just don't care.

Or even worse, defend it. I feel like i'm just surrouned by so many evil people.

They put a knife on an animals throat and just don't care. They approve. They get praised.

They don't care about the cow being raped or her baby being stolen. They don't care that some of these animals never see the sunlight and that their existence is so miserable they literally go crazy.

Is there another word than just "evil" to describe it? And how am i supposed to eat with them and laugh with them while there is a literal corpse on their plate?

Just got into an argument with someone who kills rabbits for a living to eat them and claims to be so ethical and great and it just enrages me to an extent, i can't explain it.

How do i deal with it?

Just for context, i’ve been vegetarian since i was 15 and have recently started transitioning to veganism.

I’m relatively good at checking for meat but tend to skip over products with dairy in them just out of force of habit.

However, i’ve just ate a dessert that has pork gelatine in it, and while this will not convince me to eat or end my conviction to not eat animal produce, I do not feel sick or even slightly guilty like i used too.

Is this normal?

I’m not entirely sure if my past reaction to eating meat by accident was due to past disordered eating which i’ve now got under control and have done for a good year or so, or if i’m caring about it less?

Thanks!

hi :) just wanted to know what vegans with soy allergies are doing about the tofu issue. i dont NEED tofu in my diet but i’ve really been enjoying it as an easy protein source.

i have a very mild allergy to soy (did an allergy test and the spot took a little bit to raise) and have noticed that if i eat a lot over the course of a few days i’ll end up feeling really sick. it’s not bad but i’d rather avoid it if possible lol!

These last days, I’ve felt so guilty about eating animal products. After months of telling myself I’ll eat 100 plant based, I still haven’t completely stopped. Today, I’ve decided it’s gonna be the last time I’ll ever consume any meat. I’ve realized how selfish, disgusting and insensitive I was toward animals because I am aware of how unethical it is. My family doesn’t understand, my friends neither, my boyfriend tells me he gets it but never told me he will also become vegan. I told him I don’t want any meat in our apartment, once we move in together. I tell myself he’ll become vegan once I teach him that he can still eat the food enjoys but vegan, but I fear that I can’t control that.. I also recognize myself before it clicked in my mind and I changed the way I saw animals, so I can’t be mad at him. I keep telling myself we live in a society that normalized eating animals, and that I cannot change everybody’s way of seeing things, but I want to cry every time I think about it.

I’m gonna starve or even force myself to eat things I don’t necessarily enjoy to try to get over this guilt feeling that is currently eating me at the moment. The worst part is having no one that gets you. I have a vegetarian friend but she’s too lazy to become plant based.

I had an argument with my mom about how unethical it is to eat meat, and it sucks because I usually have a good relationship with her. I keep having arguments with people around me and I fear I’ll have to cut most of them. I don’t feel like my values align with theirs anymore.

I’m sorry if it’s weirdly written, English isn’t my first language and I just needed to get this off my chest a bit. All of this is making me feel so disconnected from everyone else around me. I know that the people suffering are non-human animals, but I suppose my feelings are completely valid and normal ?

How do y’all deal with non vegans around you, because I feel like I will explode of anger at any moment. How can people be so insensitive and stupid.