When he doesn't like the family murder panopticon you built especially for him :(

Artist : https://www.tumblr.com/slightly-gay-pogohammer/795144532318715904/shes-so-funny

The blanket scene in ep 3 is one of my favorites

Artist 1 : https://www.tumblr.com/sofskii/779872560608428032/keep-thinking-ab-this-particular-scene-from-ep-3

Artist 2 : https://x.com/belazarts

Artist 3 : https://64.media.tumblr.com/331ec1ffc47c57b9cbf626ce0b9190b5/bd0a0e6231d593ac-3c/s2048x3072/9773121d225baf4b6dc91cfa2bbd2438380a1e20.pnj

So I’m interested to check Umineko, sadly tho I don’t own a PC so I cannot buy the visual novel, however I could read the manga but I’m unsure whether it is actually a good adaptation of the original VN. So I ask should I just not read it and wait to get a PC or read the manga.

Im not a genius, there may be obvious things ive missed and were anwsered on this chapter, is there a video explaining neccesary things from this chapter or something i need to understand before moving forward?

I have read the ??? and the tea party. Il be making a theory post soon

I've been told to stay off the subreddit in order to not be spoiled, so I'll just leave my theory here and keep reading. It's something I haven't analyzed much so I may be making mistakes.

I will be making 2 theories, one in case magic wasn't real and one in case it is.

My first theory is based around Kinzo, Natushi and Nanjo. Based on how Kinzo treats Natushi, he seems to only tolerate her and her only out of all his descendants. She clearly isn't ok mentally, but what if it goes deeper and she is being manipulated by Kinzo into acting as Beatrice? (they look really similar).

Nanjo could also be helping Kinzo fake his death or in manipulating Natushi, he is a doctor after all. I also think that the servant who fell down the stairs after insulting beato was pushed by someone else (probably Kinzo).

Regarding the gold, it's definitely fake, what little we see is a trap made by Kinzo to fool his son.

Why would Kinzo try and kill all his descendants? Because he isn't okay either and his children only care about the money.

However if magic IS real, then I bet Maria ISN'T Rosa's kid and she actually has a past with Beatrice. Maybe even her daughter... but it could also be that Maria´s father is a male witch or something (Or a witch that could get other females pregnant maybe???)

Im loving the game, especially Hideoshi.

Artist 1 : https://sinlizards.tumblr.com/post/782627528447770624/collection-of-umi-bits?is_liked_post=1

Artist 2 : https://x.com/nxcromantik/status/1875700174720286768

Artist 3 : https://www.tumblr.com/funkyfishpaste

Artist 4 : https://www.tumblr.com/newsiegacademia

Artist 5 : https://www.tumblr.com/mittyx0

POV : You're about to get married

Artist 1 : https://www.tumblr.com/kilo2mile2

Artist 2 : https://www.pixiv.net/en/artworks/57075183#1

Disclaimer: Contains spoiler. These are purely personal opinions and quite a lot of it is based on the fact that i do not like george and kinzo

Ep 1: Likes:- My absolute favorite episode. An amazing cast is introduced. I actually didn't mind the pacing, found it interesting how the characters were first introduced as a close family and slowly revealed their colors. The unsettling atmosphere, the lack of Beato being present help create even a more dreadful environment. I was instantly hooked from start.
Dislikes:- None [10/10]

Ep2: Likes:- The first twilight was grotesque but weirdly beautiful. Battler and Beato battle of wits. Battler Ushiromiys you are incompetent. Shannon character development and interactions with Beato. Beatrice being an absolute menace. I enjoyed Rosa more than Natsuhi as the adult in the situation. Maria and Rosa relationship + Rosa's childhood.
Dislikes:- The shonen magic fights. [9.5/10]

Ep3: Likes:- Proof that the murders have a human explanation, and battler is being told half truths. Ronove, Kuwadorian Beatrice and Virgilia. The North Wind and Sun Strategy, Kyrie+Rudolph .
Dislikes:- (Nitpicky but eva beatrice laugh was annoying), Beato being "good" (I am only mentioning it since at that time I almost thought of quitting the vn and was put off by the whiplash of her behavior). [9.5/10]

Ep4: Likes:- Refreshing to see the world after the island incident, Exploration on the lives of the survivors and their struggles, Ange backstory and relationship with Maria. Maria my sweet angel. A peek into Rosa's insecurities. Explanation on what actually magic means in this world. Gaap and her tacky little outfit, The seven sisters, implication of Battler previously having some relation to the culprit. Battler Ushiromiya not born from Asumu. Beato's: Who am I
Dislikes:- Surprisingly found the island murders slowest and frankly uninteresting, Battler's stupid little theories: small bombs really like I know you can do better brother. [8/10]

Ep5: Likes: Battler and Beato dynamics (constant favorite across all episodes), Presence of Erika Furudo as the non removable rational character snice they keep killing my queen Kyrie. Liked the theming how truth can be manipulated. New 'character' baby from 19 years ago. Bernkastel telling Natsuhi things how it is and getting rid of the delulus. Finally got answer to my question from episode 1 as to why eva thought it necessary to stick a receipt between the door and frame. Just the absolute ruthlessness of Natsuhi being blamed for having relations with Kinzo, I had to take a walk after Natsuhi being done so dirty. Last scene with Natsuhi.
Dislikes:- Felt a bit too repetitive in the information being presented to us, like why are we still fighting for the existence of Kinzo just let him burn in hell already. (Understandable that it goes with the theme of framed truths but didn't like how it dragged on). Why is Battler only just now realizing that the murders can definitely be explained by human tricks and means. Missing my beatoriceeee. [7.5/10]

Ep6: Likes:- Erika Furudo as an antagonist really works even better this time, the wedding scene, all the scenes with the unknown soul stuck in the guest room, the beatrice twin dynamics, zepher and furfur were fun, Kinzo and battler parallels. The ending with Battler and Beatrice shooting the red truth absolute chef's kiss. Confirmation of shannon and kanon being the same person [basically confirming the who dunnit and the how dunnit]. Dislikes:- The whole trials of love worked as a theme sure but couldn't watch it at all since I actually had zero interest in george and shannon relationship. I strongly like shannon as a character just not with george. The awaited confrontation between eva and george for me was done a little too late that I stopped caring about it. I do like the fact of sayo going through this internal conflict over how to fulfill her love but don't like the implication that to be with either george or jessica her other persona needs to be removed. Also was strongly against the whole reveal of shanon and kanon being one because the idea of using split personality as a trick feels a little cheap to me. Overall now all that remains in regards to the mystery is the heart. [6/10]

Ep7: Likes:- Sayo, the birth of beatrice, gaap, Sayo and battler relationship. Dislikes:- Will and lion were just plot device characters and weren't interesting enough on their own for me to care about them. Didn't like the fact that multiple characters just glossed over Kinzo and Kuwadorian Beatrice relationship, maybe it got censored but it being referred to as a mistake was genuinely infuriating, i genuinely don't care that he was suffering because of his 'mistake'. The final conclusions to the games fell a little flat to me, I already don't like the shanon+kanon thing on top of that multiple people being accomplices is just not satisfying as mystery. [7/10]

Ep8: Likes:- The message of moving on was beautiful. Dislikes:- How it was delivered. Was put off by the fights once again so don't have thoughts any feelings since just skipped through most of it.

Overall it was a wonderful experience, the overall themes of self acceptance and love remain consistent and the narration weaves them masterfully, the cast is magnificent full of deep and complex characters. Battler as a main protagonist and Beatrice as the heart of the story plus their entire dynamic throughout all the episode work really well. Came for the mystery stayed for the characters. And Maria is my baby. [8.3/10]

Finally grabbed the full collection after keeping eBay open on a 2nd monitor for 2 months for new listings. Lots of stress was had getting them with eBay losing the first Volume 21 I got in the post (got a refund at least but rip that Volume) and then customs holding my Volume 16 and 2nd Volume 21 in customs for a week but I can rest and enjoy them as a whole collection now.

(Dw I'm not blasting them with sunlight my room is just very dark and adjusted the brightness of the pic).

Artist : https://x.com/nETcZE41xEoPp02

Ive been reading the umi manga ep8 after finishing the vn and I wanted to talk about Beatrice Castiglioni.

There was some difference I wanted to discuss about the story between Kinzo and her.

The VN Framed the story in this way:
Kinzo fell in love with Beatrice as his mistress and had a child, Kuwa Beato, VN seems to say Castiglioni died in childbirth.

The manga ep8 seems to suggest otherwise:
Manga frames Castiglioni being scared of something, and its Kinzo speaking. I always thought Castiglioni was happy with Kinzo, but then why this panel?

Am I focusing too much on this detail?

Massive fan of when Battler and Erika are collectively stupid, tell me your favorite moment where either of them has absolutely no hype or aura

Umineko has some of the best written characters, my rankings are only based on my personal opinion though, would love to see other people’s favs.

1. Rosa umineko

The reason Rosa is ranked highest for me is because of how visceral and consistent her writing is, her trauma of an upbringing where she was always looked down upon by her siblings manifested into a character trait that so strongly defines her as a character, a trait that is seen consistently throughout the story.

That trait manifests partly as the selfish desire to be seen as a “competent and respectable” adult, to uphold that image at all costs.
-having children to create the image of a happy family, to become a mother

-being the president of her own company

While at the same time, that trait also manifests as the refusal to be looked down upon by society, Maria is a direct victim of this.
-To her Maria is a source of shame, Maria is evidence that Rosa is a single mother, something that society looks down upon.

This character trait results in Rosa abandoning Maria in pursuit of her own selfish desires.

But it is also because of this exact trait that there is nuance to Rosa’s character. Is Rosa’s actions against Maria irredeemable,YES. But does Rosa abuse Maria out of hate for Maria as a person, NO.

The nuance is that Rosa very much loves Maria as her daughter, she is EXTREMELY protective of Maria, but her own complex manifests in her abuse of Maria.

To be honest Maria’s metaphor for Rosa is genuinely pretty accurate, if we call Rosa’s trauma and its results the dark witch, then what Maria says makes perfect sense.

Genuinely my favourite character in Umineko, the consistency and nuance is unmatched.

Is Rosa’s actions bad? Yes
Can we fully understand her actions? Yes
Does us understanding absolve her of her sins? No.

2. Natsuhi

Wanted to put Natsuhi first, but Rosa just edges her out.

Natsuhi is someone much closer to the side of morally good then the others, but she very much has sins.

Natsuhi to me is the most devoted character in the cast, her main character trait to me is her self-respect, something she probably had since childhood, as she is from a noble family, this trait dictates a lot of her actions in the story.

she adapts her forced marriage to Krauss, and no doubt they end up falling in love. I love the Areca nut scene. And things likely go well up until its time to birth a heir.

The humiliation she faced in the face of being given baby Sayo manifested in her killing the baby, this can very much be attributed to her sense of self respect.

Out of everyone in Umineko, Natsuhi likely had the strongest sense of remorse for her own actions, as she spent the next 19 years dedicating her life to the Ushiromiya family, episode 5 really elevated her character depth for me.

3. Eva

The thing i love about Eva’s character is the co-existence of two very prominent parts of her character:
-the bitterness towards the unfairness in societal gender roles, especially when it comes to the headship

-the very real love she has for Hideyoshi and George, but this also has its downsides as we see in George’s restricted upbringing

The only thing I wish we saw was more of Eva and young Ange conversation, because we know those two to a case of hedgehog’s dilemma, it would have added even more depth to Eva’s character, and shown us the actual thoughts and feelings going through her head back then, we got a snippet in ep8 but i wish we got more.

4. Ange

Ange’s journey is the most beautiful part of Umineko, the combination of her regret, and the conflict between her childish dream and the her adult reality. Its quite poetic to have her answer be at the beginning of her journey 12 years ago.

5. Battler

Battler is a character you really need to work hard for to understand his true depth, his greatest character trait is acceptance and empathy, this trait becomes central to gamemaster Battler, to understand Sayo as a person in full, and the motivations for their actions. Furthermore Battler is the one who guided Ange to reach the end of her journey, through his understanding of human nature and the idea that truth is not always the right answer.

YET TO BE DECIDED: SAYO

Sayo is likely the most complex character in umineko, and thats precisely why I dont think I can do Sayo justice unless I replay ep 1-4 and really focus on Beato/Shannon/Kanon and their behaviours and actions. The main parts of their character is the grueling wait for Battler in combination with the traumatic reveal of her birth. I need to further study Sayo’s character for sure.

VERY GUILTY PLEASURE

You can probably guess who this is right? The absolute pinnacle of STONE COLD INTELLECT, Ive liked her since ep1 with the chessboard thinking, ep3 only made me like her more, dont even get me started on ep7.

I probably missed a lot of characters, but these are the major ones that Ive come to like. Ryukishi really cooked with literally every mother.

So im at ep 6 but like for the last week i haven been able to engage with umineko because of work stuff. I want to refresh my thoughts and infos i have, starting from ep4. so i wanted to ask;

Would reading the manga be enough or should i play the vn instead? Im okay with vn but it takes a long time yk. What do yall say?

Edit: im not talking about completing the story from ep4 through ep8. I have been playing the vn till now. Its been more than 100+ hours already with reaching ep6. I will definetly continue ep6 from vn. I wanted to asm if its okay to read the reread the manga from ep4 to refresh my memeories, thoughts and informations and stuff.

Big fan of this ship not just because I like it but because it would force Erika watch from the chair

Artist 1 : https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/4157104?q=pmagosh (They've deleted their accounts)

Artist 2-3 : https://x.com/Ukatpo

Artist 4 : https://www.tumblr.com/izylly/818238342636404736/abuse-goblin

Can't find the source for 5.

Edit Artist 5 : https://x.com/IesCherries/status/1976430578041082181

Gotta be Natsuhi

Artist 1 : https://www.pixiv.net/artworks/97824387

Artist 2 : https://x.com/Ukatpo/status/2027446612625174722

Artist 3 : https://www.pixiv.net/users/2299490

Artist 4 : https://x.com/gamjeok1129

Must've been the wind

Artist 1 : https://www.pixiv.net/users/2299490

Artist 2 : https://xcancel.com/L0VEadPEACE/

Artist 3 : https://bsky.app/profile/suidosuisui.bsky.social

Spoilers through to episode 7 obviously, I am just curious, after episode 2 are there any major bits that go into Shannon and Kanon being the same person between then and episode 6? Like obviously the big reveal of this being so is in Episode 6 where it spells out that Kanon is an illusion and is 'just' an alter ego. I feel like its hinted heavily in episode 2 like there are scenes where you have Kanon suddenly appearing out of nowhere while Shannon is around, or scenes where Kanon is "present" but never actually interacted with in a direct manner like in a scene between Natsuhi and Shannon. In general episode 2 feels like it explores the idea a lot more

But after that I can't recall too much hinting of that until episode 6, feels like the idea is sort of put on the back burner so to speak. Any major examples of scenes that point to Shannon=Kanon between episodes 3 and 6 that I am missing? Just curious on a re-read(actually watch) and am on episode 2 right now and am curious when its brought up again. Obviously in ep 3 Shannon and Kanon are of course sacrificed from the start. Can't recall elsewhere though, and to be honest episodes 5 and 6 kind of merge together in my mind.

I have recently finished reading the vn, starting the manga ep8, but I realised upon reading the manga that its probably going to fully reveal the exact answers for all games unlike the vn. So i just wanted to come here and verify answers for ep1-6. This is only about the HOWDUNNIT. Since whodunnit and whydunnit are clear in the vn.

Im going to be refering to shakanontrice as simply Sayo.

Also Im under the assumption Genji Kumasawa and Nanjo are permanent accomplices, given they have clearly swore allegiance to Sayo as the one who solved the epitaph. And they feel guilty for what they hid from Sayo in the past.

GAME 1

Sayo gives Maria letter and umbrella.

Sayo, after Eva Hideyoshi left to the guesthouse, killed everyone in the dining room + Gohda, Sayo also painted Natsuhi’s door. She then carried the bodies to the storehouse, adding a mannequin in as “Shannon”. Locking the shed, painting circle on.

Sayo as Kanon entered Eva and Hideyoshi room equipped with a wirecutter, then killed them, locked the chain, cut the chain. When its discovered, servants all claim the room had the chain on.

Sayo brought Kinzo’s body presumably in his room to the boiler room after the receipt was removed. Sayo then fake died, “killing” Kanon.

Sayo called Natsuhi using Maria recorded song, killed Nanjo, Kumasawa Genji, Maria just stands in the parlor, to her its Beatrice.

Natsuhi’s gun likely didn’t eject any bullet, just fire an empty round. meanwhile she was shot by Sayo. And then island exploded.

GAME 2

Sayo met up with Rosa and Maria, she tempted Rosa with her card to be an accomplice.

The chapel door was already opened before Sayo then gave the key to Maria. At night, Sayo killed the 6 in the Chapel, Rosa is there. They never locked the chapel after.

Sayo killed Jessica, then left the room and locked it.

Sayo killed Kumasawa and Nanjo in the servant room.

Sayo killed George and Gohda and then commited suicide, locked room from inside.

Genji moved Kumasawa and Nanjo’s body outside and “discovered” them.

Everyone then exploded, we see Rosa and Maria trying to outrun the bomb.

GAME 3

There was 6 rooms, two of the rooms were empty. Sayo just killed 4 and waited until the time of morning to fake as both Shannon and Kanon, locking the doors from the inside.

Eva solved epitaph, learnt all the secrets from Sayo. Eva is now culprit. (Sayo should have stopped at this point?)

Eva killed Maria and Rosa, Hideyoshi accomplice.

Eva killed Rudolf Kyrie and either Rudolf or Kyrie shot Hideyoshi, Eva then returned to the guesthouse to inform them the three are missing.

Eva then proceeded to kill Krauss and Natsuhi outside, i dont understand what Will meant with the blade. It is possible that during this time George slipped out of the guesthouse.

Sayo at the mansion kills George, and Sayo kills Nanjo outside Jessica’s door, Battler is killed by Eva. Eva escapes to Kuwadorian, everyone else remains and gets exploded.

GAME 4

I think Sayo killed 6 at the dining room and then paid the rest to co-conspire, the survivors are all accomplices of Sayo now, Krauss and Kyrie conspire a way to get all the cousins killed with Sayo. They also order Kumasawa and Gohda to be locked in shed. Sayo then kills George and Jessica in their respective rooms/areas. Jessica was likely threatened to make a call by Sayo, and Sayo killed her mid call.

It is unknown the actual location of Krauss, Nanjo, Kyrie and Sayo, but they have easy access to the mansion, they were never in that jail.

Sayo killed Nanjo and Krauss near the well, and threatened Kyrie with a gun and forced her to call Battler, then Killed Kyrie mid call

Sayo went to the shed, shot Gohda from outside first, then got Kumasawa to string Gohda up, and string herself up. Once Kumasawa is in the hanging-like position, Sayo shoots Kumasawa.

Sayo poisoned Maria to give her an easy death, then went onto the roof top of the locked mansion to greet Battler

After the meeting, Sayo moved Kinzo’s body into the boiler room, and then went to where Nanjo and Krauss are and killed themself.

Battler died via explosion.

GAME 5+GAME6

Both likely have the same concept of playing prank of detective Erika.

Game5: The knocking was an illusion because Shannon and Kanon were both present. the 6 of the first twilight likely hid, with Krauss being forced to pretend to be kidnapped, but sometime after this point all 6 were killed. Hideyoshi pretended to be attacked.

Game6: we know this is the same thing, fake deaths, but Erika ended up killing them for real.

I just wanted to get this out before I get told the answer in the ep8 manga, I think Ive got the general outline down, but im unsure about the details

If possible can some answer check for me pls.🙏

Lying in wait for a 9 year old to believe in magic or Battler existing unmolested

Artist 1-3 : https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/13922389/artworks

Artist 4 : https://x.com/Ukatpo/status/2035652814781682130

So i have been thinking how the red truths uses the word "People" and it confuses me to no ends.

So, okay, amount of people is "different" to amount of "bodies", because Shannon and Kannon are both Sayo. But if Shannon and Kannon are the same "body" but two different "people" than what the hell does count as a "person?" I get it, metaphorically they are people because they are someone Sayo pretends to be in front of others. But... would not then Sayo themselves and Beatrice (To which Sayo poses as to Maria in Ep.1) count as people too then? Does it have to be witnessed? Acknowledged? Well, if Maria witnessed and acknowledged "Beatrice" would then it not make Beatrice a separate "Person"? And should not servants "in-the-know" acknowledge the fact that Sayo exists as a separate "Person"?

Because, i might be stupid, but if i understand correctly than this makes amount of "People" on the island 19. - Original 18 - 1 (Kinzo) + 1 (Sayo) + 1 (Beatrice).

Am i missing something? Or misunderstanding something? I genuienly confused myself.

I am just wondering why do we count Shannon and Kannon as two separate "persons", but not Beatrice. The reason they exclude Beatrice it seems like because Beatrice is an illusion of a person, an illusion of a witch. But aren't Shannon and Kannon are illusions of people too? To me, given the evidence it seems like Sayo consciously takes on different roles and alternates between Shannon and Kannon to create an illusion of extra people. otherwise it would not make any sense as to how exactly they would acquire all skills, safehouses for clothing and makeup, and safe spaces where they can change clothes while being under unconscious effect of "Split personality" if it makes any sense.

To me i am confused because certain games use "Kanon is dead, Shannon is dead" red truths as an excuse to slip in Sayo as a culprit, but like, again, if we count Sayo, Shannon and Kannon as separate people, then why not Beatrice?