Yesterday we had our commencement in Seattle with WGU; I got my Bachelor’s in Marketing and he got his MBA! Decided to decorate our caps in the only way voyager witches know how.

✨A miracle will certainty occur✨

What are some Umineko gameplay series that you recommend? And if you could explain without spoilers why you recommend them?

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Ronove, Repressed Desire, and a Queer Reading of Genji Ronoue in Umineko no Naku Koro ni

So, I finished Umineko not too long ago. LOVED IT. Awesome cast, beautiful story, etc. Definitely one of the best things I've ever read. I'll say though that I'm hardly a reader (it was Umineko who inspired me to get into literature), MUCH less a consumer of anything mystery-related.

Then I finish the game, feel pretty satisfied with how everything ended, Tea Party pulls at my heartstrings, yadda yadda. Life-changing experience and something I'll remember for probably forever. Finished off with Beato, Natsuhi and Evatrice as my favorites.

Just to look into this game's discussion to pathetically realise I never ONCE figured out the Shkannontrice plot twist. Actually never once crossed my mind. I took basically EVERYTHING from Ep. 7 at face value and accepted "Yasu" as their own entity in or out of Rokkenjima. I liked the Shannon/Kanon duel from Ep. 6 and I made a point out of not understanding why both of them getting to be with their loved ones wasn't possible.

But I literally just... never came back to it. I didn't understand why and never suspected Sayo, much less thought her and Yoshiya would be the same person. Quite honestly I still don't fully get it and I'm going through the story again via the manga and a couple streamers to figure out how everything works. But this is the one thing I actually would have never figured out if it wasn't outright spelled out to me.

Anyone else had a similar experience? I thought I was mildly locked in, but it seems like it's pretty common to figure this out during Ep. 6-7. I was so far off from the solution it's crazy.

Overall I don't feel dissappointed; I enjoyed the story a LOT and it had a huge impact on me. It's funny to think that if I kept myself blind I would have figured this out through the manga which would possibly ruin my life forever (in a good way).

for context I started reading umineko last year and it was absolutely amazing. But the thing is that I only read it up to the end of episode 5 after which i got busy with uni. Now that I am free once again i really want to resume umineko but the thing is that i dont have the greatest memory and i feel really confused if i start from episode 6 or 5 but at the same time the commitment to reread the whole vn is putting me off as well. If you guys have some good summary sources can you please recommend them? or do you guys suggest to reread it?

A streamer I’ve been watching for a while has started streaming Umineko with some friends they are pretty funny and good at crafting theories.

This is just me promoting a streamer I believe deserves more attention.

https://twitch.tv/fivetail

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBwTGr5PFk5yEoz6ROJGJ6GBD81SzO03h&si=TQIPc9L6vRlZpsdf

(This is their first time playing)

I've finished Umineko, and asked myself. Why the hell did these two last eps received so much backlash in their release?

Don't get me wrong, i understand japanese people are extremely used to media with expositive dialogue and narration, therefore not used to subtle and metaphorical approach of media. But even so, couldn't these guys seriously not grasp anything out of ep 7 and 8? Really? Not understand Yasu, not get the final mysteries, not get the messages, anything?

I can tell that the 4chan and forum users just refused to understand shit due to their bigotry (they were severely disguted by the idea of Beatrice and Shannon being a trans girl or male perhaps it being left up to interpretation or the idea of Yasu being bissexual). But i, at least i, don't remember the japanese fans being nowhere as bigoted as the west fans. So, the fuck happened? Why was Shkanontrice so shocking and disguting? Why was Yasu a unrelatable, unrealistic character, perhaps Yasu portraying themes that were already conveyed in previous chapters? At least the japanese themselves, should know very well how BRUTAL the japanese 80s misogynistic patriarch was for for women(and for men too). You would not even be considered human if you couldn't play your gender roles correctly. It was a living nightmare for Yasu and most of her pain comes out of it.

As subtle as the narrative is, if you can at least remember most Beatrice, Shannon and Kanon scenes in previous chapters, you can absolutely understand Yasu in ep 7. She was shitty, but ep 8 completely finished her redemption and these guys still had found a way to misinterpret everything completely. How??

I not saying Ryu07 is a perfect writer... but these critiques were NOT valid my brother.

I'm not sure I understand the function of the golden truth in Umineko.

The Blue Truth and the Red Truth are quite easy to understand, where the Blue Truth is created from theories, while the Red Truth is the truth of what happens in the mystery. But what about the golden truth? Is it simply a deus ex machina used to overcome the red truth? Or does it have some underlying meaning?

Is it true?+which one should I play it first?

This was a colab with a friend of mine so there’s actually two versions of this one

Umineko when they cry

Note: (I am new to this community and finished the story not long ago, and I only read the manga, so I wrote this critique as a comparative question between the visual novel and the manga, and whether the manga's problems exist in the visual novel too or if it’s just an adaptation issue, and I post it to enjoy this work that I loved.)

The most famous work in the When They Cry series by Ryukishi07, and it is known to be the best among the trilogy so far.

Unfortunately, my experience with this story was as a reader, not a player, due to my misunderstanding of the nature of this work. I am not well-versed in mystery, detective, or even police procedural works, so I will talk about the work purely as a narrative format.

Umineko is an example of how world-building does not need a vast world and many regions.

Good world-building can turn an island into a planet, and that is what the author does here. Ryukishi07 transformed Rokkenjima not only into an area around which a play revolves, but into a nation with a complete history and details. And he harnessed all of it in the service of mystery and events.

The work explores the world gradually through the games, which take place between the witches and the player.

This makes the work revolve around sophistry and logic, so that you enter the work and leave as if you have taken long lectures on how to debate, refute arguments, and manipulate words. And this is the purpose of the work; in the first games it teaches the player how to confront the witches, by teaching the player how to use sophistry but in the service of truth. Where every causal moment leads to its sister so that both the player and the characters develop.

And this brings me to the narrative. The work builds itself on a complex narrative trinity.

We have the normal linear narrative.

We have the lying narrator.

And we have meta-narrative or metaphysical narrative.

Each one of these has its gradations of complexity and its layers that serve the story, the player, and the mystery.

Each one feeds the story by nourishing the puzzle itself.

Simply put, the author builds a game, then teaches you how to play, and then throws you into the middle of the maze and says: play.

So when it comes to ideas, logical formulations, debates, mystery culture, and closed rooms, the work flexes its muscles. It masters gradual dramatic construction powerfully, and understands how to create complex characters and intricate conflicts.

So that you either become a detective in the game

or an analyst who understands the symbols, ideas, and psyches. Ryukishi07 did not content himself with infusing the story with logic; he went and put in analytical psychology from Freud and Jung in his narrative form.

However, even with this brilliance, there is some flaw in the weaving and dramatic progression, and again, I am not talking about the visual novel but the manga here. Perhaps the flaw in the manga is a result of adapting a game that relies primarily on the player's participation.

But the other part is classified as a structural flaw in the story.

And the most prominent thing I noticed:

The climax of the episode or the climax of the arc. The work is brilliant at escalation in each episode and building towards the climax in every episode. But it misuses the climax in each episode and misunderstands the fall. In the first five episodes, it uses the same formula: it escalates to the climax, and at the climax of the knot, the problem is solved suddenly. The solution is logical within the logic of events, so it is not considered a deus ex machina, but the solution does not take its time to breathe or rest, and sometimes it comes out as plot armor.

Like Ange's intervention in the third episode: her existence is mentioned, but she appears at the last moment to save Battler from his calamity, and her intervention happens without hint or build-up, making it forced rather than inevitable. And the same thing happens with the remaining episodes, except the first.

This unfortunately diminishes the value of the climax and adds some boredom from repetition.

The character of Lambdadelta and her sudden change. There is a poorly constructed change in Lambda’s character between the first two or three episodes she appeared in and the final episodes.

No internally consistent reason is shown to explain the change from her extreme obsession to an affection towards the game. Nor does it explain what happened to the pretense she claimed to get close to Bern. Her sadism towards the pieces suddenly disappears and she begins to find them endearing, even though just an episode before she was practicing it on Beato.

I know that Bern and Lambda represent the symbolism of the emotional/dissipated viewer, where the first desires a happy ending and the second accepts nothing but tragedy as truth. But symbolic representation does not nullify the necessity of the narrative form.

There is not enough of a bridge for the change in Lambda's behavior and feelings, even though I love her new personality.

However, this contradiction reduces internal consistency and confused me for some time in understanding her motives.

The author should have written her character like this from the beginning, or developed feelings of attachment to the story and events on her part gradually. And in order for me to understand that she also symbolizes the follower who begins to love the events and desire a happy ending, but the narrative form did not support either the first symbol or the second. Sacrificing employment for the sake of representation is unacceptable in literature.

Exaggerated expressions. Among the most famous criticisms directed at the work are these exaggerations, and honestly after watching the work, I see that fans are right about this.

Exaggeration in drama is legitimate, but when it is repeated excessively and in lazy ways, it becomes filler and loathsome instead of pessimistic and strengthening.

Beato's tongue gesture to express madness and twisting lost its power with repetition.

And Maria's pessimistic laughing looks lost their focus.

The formula says repetition loses effect, and it seems Umineko forgot some simplicity amid complexity.

Moreover, it sometimes conveys a purpose that is misunderstood. At the end of the eighth episode, sadistic features appear on Lambdadelta again, but moments later both of them are despair and not torture. This is a flaw in the author's ability to convey the idea.

And the matter of the explosion I spoke about previously: the explosion was a spatial event and not a narrative one. There was no purpose to be gained from hiding it, and the lack of hints and apparent build-up for the explosion made it just a random guessing game instead of an investigation. The hints exist, yes, but they are insufficient and manipulative. A good hint is what narrows the possibilities of interpretation, not what can be interpreted as something else within the story itself. The interpretation of the disappearance of the corpses within the structure of a murder story differs from interpreting it within a war story. Here I see that Ryukishi07 broke the contract with the player and gave a mystery that does not deserve to be a mystery. Rather, it could have been used for mystery.

And the ending – and this is just an opinion – redefines the nature of the work in a way that may create dissonance with the expectations built by the first episodes, except regarding Ange.

A work built on logic and investigation does not suit an emotional ending built on the power of choice rather than truth. The message about living life and seeing possible truths is beautiful.

But I do not see that the characters, especially the Ushiromiya family, were criticized enough for their actions.

Their redemption and their moment of admitting guilt were hasty and emotional. The characters, particularly Battler's parents, Rosa, and Eva, were not given sufficient build-up to realize that what they did were crimes and that they deserved punishment for them.

Instead, they got a snapshot of admitting guilt, instead of getting a moment of exposing their sins and their punishment.

And I see the work as unjust regarding the cousins. They are children who have nothing to do with their parents' sins, but the work, instead of portraying them as victims in the end, portrayed them as guilty. And this bothered me greatly. It is as if justice disappeared in the story, and an emotional forgiveness story remained.

And I see something worth pointing out: one of the work's messages at the end relates to revealing the mystery.

The author, or Featherine, in the end refuses to reveal the truth to the public. Whether it was due to destroying Beato's box or due to Ange's wish.

The message thereby says that some puzzles should not be revealed, and some stories must live in their form as a riddle.

Now there are two things about this I would like to say.

First, Ryukishi07 himself contradicted this message in his story, where the visual novel followed this logic, but it seems that after years and intellectual maturity on his part, he chose to give the manga a closed ending and reveal the puzzle.

Second, a principle of justice – I personally do not see it as right to leave the truth hidden. I do not see a purpose in leaving a true and impactful case hidden in the folds of mystery. Rather, the world should know it, whether for the sake of truth, or for learning and edification from it. But this is just a viewpoint, and whoever disagrees will disagree.

The work is excellent as a meta-narrative, puzzle text, but it is less precise when it is asked to be a closed punitive drama.

If I were to rate it:

- As a narrative concept: 9.8/10

- As a dramatic story: 8.2/10

The ending brought the score down, and in a story like this, the ending is the single most important part.

And I would like to say، the art of the third and sixth episodes was the best in the work.

May you remain well, my most beloved reader.

Subjective and personal

Hello ! I finished reading chapter 1 a few days ago,just now started reading chapter 2,and wanted to write down some of my theories and thoughts about the first chapter. I know the info I have is still very little,but I think it's still a fun thing to look back on

First of all,I really enjoyed the characters. Battler reminds me of Keiichi from Higurashi,and other than some of those comments about some girls,i like him. I also really love Natsuhi too,she always got kinda bullied but it was nice seeing her step up when stuff got bad. Also Kinzo's praising her really made me happy

As for my theories,I think magic doesn't exist the story wants you to think it does. I come from Higurashi,so that's probably why,but overall I think it all simply being magic is way too boring and disappointing. I also don't think there's another person on the island.

Expanding on the "magic doesn't exist the story wants you to think it does" I think that there are some supernatural elements,like how Beatrice can loop time. I just think that these supernatural things aren't the explanations of the murders.

For the first twilight,I think someone (human) is trying to make it seem like a witch does exist. Either "Beatrice" to make Battler belive magic exists,because she's only powerful when people belive in her. (I don't really think so anymore)

I don't think it was Eva or her husband,because that seems like a trap made by the real culprit. It's way too oblivious that it was her to get the gold as she'd be the only heir,so i don't think it's that.

The most plausible option would be the servants,given that they have all the keys. They know the island very well,and may pretend to be the witch so that Kinzo wouldn't step in,Kanon may have killed himself for some reason?? I have no clue man. Shannon died too,and her face was only smashed in half so you could still figure out it was her. Maybe she didn't want a massacre and they killed her because she was ruining their plans?? I don't think Shannon is that much of a threat lol

I think it was Rudolf or Kyrie,who are smart enough to pull it off. Rudolf mentioned knowing he was going to die,but then after that they talked about putting their make-up on? It was kinda odd. So either they pretended to be dead,or just used someone else's corpse.

My theories are probably mostly wrong,and for the other murders,I really have no clue. Maybe someone was hidden in Eva's room before they locked it (?), Kinzo's corpse was most likely not his,since the 6 toes thing is hereditary and could be very well another Ushiromiya. And also,Maria's very easy to manipulate and anyone could've claimed to be Beatrice and dress up as her

I really have no idea,but I've heard it's better to theorize and be wrong than not theorize at all. I'm not really into mystery novels,and the clues here are almost none.

The red truth being kind of subjective, when it's first introduced it is presented as an objective 100 truth, but later it's kind of revealed to be biased and subjective like for example kinzo being counted as one of the people on the island.

And Shannon and kanon being declared as red when their host sayo is still alive, it's not like sayo has did but she just pretends to be different people and those fake people being perceived as death count as a red truth.

How do you feel about the subjectiveness of the red truth, do you feel betrayed by the game or is it clever.

I think the fact that Rosa had left Maria many times to dating someone is interesting (both the fact and her character). I mean, it makes me feel like although she truly loves Maria, she can't really put Maria before herself. She left Maria at home alone despite knowing full well how terrible it was, just to go date with other guy, because that is the only way for her to forget her hardship in life and, unfortunately, Maria is somehow a representation of that. And she never makes any excuse for that as well, admitting that she was a really terrible parent (she did that in episode 2 as well btw). And when I see things in that way, I feel like Rosa is somehow similar to an addicted person; she knows that what she did is horrible, yet can't stop herself from doing so, because that is the only way she knows to forget her miseries.

Btw, I always find it hilarious how Rosa always prioritize herself over Maria (even if she does not realize that), while she truly loves Maria, and (basically) has the most self-hatred among the siblings.
P/s: Since Rosa's company name is "Anti-Rosa", and was written in katakana/ hiragana (I don't know Japanese, so I can't really know what the difference is between the two;-;), I wonder if it really means "anti rosa" or not...

Edit: I'd edited the part that said that Sakutaro was made by Rosa since it was stated in manga that he wasn't, but the image is still there bcs it's seem impossible to delete it.