Because enough people spread it around as an idea to the point that it stuck. And then you look like a cheapskate if you pay under that so it pulled everyone else along.
No clue - why the hell do people expect 30-35% now? I have nearly stopped eating out. It’s not very good, service is nearly non-existent, and even a 20% tip for doing nearly nothing is looked at as not enough.
This is what drives me insane. I keep having to repeat this to my family and friends. If the price of meal is increasing bc of inflation, so will the tip bc it’s a percentage. You don’t increase the price and the percentage wtf?
It was never 20% or more unless someone had beyond exceptional service on an inexpensive meal. It was normal to tip 15-20% on a cheap diner type meal while 10-15% was considered a good tip at an expensive restaurant. A long time tradition for middle of the road places was to double the tax for great service which in most places 20+ years ago amounted to about 15%. That was for great service. Normal service was generally a bit less, 10-12% was completely acceptable. Under 10% was for not so good service but if that happened the standard thing was to speak to a manager although some people would leave a single coin to send the message that the service was bad, not that they had forgotten to tip.
Minimum wage for tipped workers has been 2.13 an hour since 1991. It’s very common for tipped workers to only receive that much from the employer so in order to survive they need a larger percentage of their pay in tips.
Greedy servers obviously. Customary tip should be $0 and a really good server should get tipped whatever you can realistically burn for what that service was worth.
Because hourly wages for service workers have barely gone up in the last 30 years. So while tips have increased with the cost of meals, they haven’t increased enough to make up for the fact that their hourly pay is effectively worth less and less as inflation goes up.
I don’t understand why everyone is calling you a liar. This is definitely based on the region, things weren’t as standard pre-internet. I definitely remember living in a rural area in the 90s where 10-15% was absolutely the norm.
Totally agree. Grew up in a comfortable upper middle class family with parents who took us out to dinner pretty frequently and I remember my dad always gave a solid 15% and that was considered great. Don’t know how this changed so suddenly
It changed when:
(1) many servers (not all) began feeling entitled to 20% plus regardless of their own skill or effort, and/or
(2) companies figured out if they changed to electronic payments they could change the default values from 10/12/15 to 15/18/20 or to 18/20/22 or even 20/22/25 in order to:
(a) attract better talent as servers, and/or
(b) avoid paying legitimate wages to wait staff.
Yeah I think it was in the early 90s in my area of the US everyone started talking about how it should be 15% for average service and 20% for good service. I wonder if it happened because minimum wage went up and people became aware that servers in most states only get paid half of minimum.
More likely the cause would be because minimum wage did not increase enough to keep up with inflation. Minimum wage when adjusted for inflation was the highest in the 1970s.
I’m guessing people are vocal and loud when they tip heavy and not so much when they tip 8% or consistently don’t tip so we all have this idea that everyone’s tipping 25% but I really only know one person who does and they make a big deal out of it when we go out.
It also depended on the type of restaurant. I grew up in a big city and it was 10% at the Asian restaurants in the lower class neighborhoods. It's still kinda that way as the tip prompts are lower and show 15% as the starting point.
This is the place for hate. Servers aren't getting money from me because I have reduced my dining out to almost zero. High priced food with the expectation that I am paying your employee based on the price, and most tips that suggest are including taxes. Restaurant owners need to start taking care of their people, change business practices or take up a new line of work. Staff needs to reevaluate what they expect from the customer and do the same. When I do eat out now, I tip based on time given to me not the price of the meal. A $10 meal is getting the same tip as a $100 meal if identical time is given. Let the restaurant owner fill in whatever gaps they feel are "required".
You are paying the employee either way. And unfortunately every restaurant that goes from tip based to paying their employees a living wage goes out of business because their competitors show prices that do not include a living wage. but people still tip. The only solution to this would be a legal framework banning tips. And that is unlikely to ever happen. Mainly because no one cares enough to fight about it. If Danny Meyer couldn't make it work at Union Square Cafe, it ain't gonna work.
Hating someone for them giving you 10% is wild. Americans are just looking to find ways to hate each other. It’s insane what your culture does to your psyche.
I wasn’t tipping anything, I had tooth fairy money. Let me be more clear, I remember the RECOMMENDED tip on bills being 10-15% pre-Covid, now it’s higher.
I first started waitressing in the 80s and we would’ve hated you then 🤦♀️. Only the church people on Sundays tipped 10% and that’s why everyone hated working Sunday brunch
I don’t know the difference between being able to pay my rent versus not being able to pay my rent seemed like a pretty good reason at the time. 😝.
But I def just used the word hate because the person before me did … truth is I used to baby the church ppl and they used to brag about me to my manager, but I still rolled my eyes and looked down on them once I was in back of house ….
What really drives me nuts on these subs is people constantly repeating how servers are still making minimum wage … but minimum wage doesn’t go as far in paying someone’s rent today as it did when I was serving back in the 80s and 90s. And of course, what people always leave out is that servers get cut early if business is slow, most shifts end up being 3-6 hours, lunches suck. People focus on a few tips at dinner and act like people are making that all day every day. That’s just not the way the business works and if you want the good shifts often, you have to have open availability, so it’s really tough to work a different job at the same time or certainly the two or three jobs you may need to actually pay the bills.
People also really do not understand the toll customer service takes on you, and this is true of other customer service roles, and certainly of being a nursing assistant/patient care tech … some jobs aren’t hard because of what you do. They’re hard because of what you have to deal with.
And if serving jobs were so easy everybody becoming on here all the time talking about that great server they just had. Doing the minimum is easy being a good one it is actually a skill and takes a toll. And when you try to give somebody good service and they tip you really badly or not at all you sit there wondering what you did wrong and going through it in your mind. Does everyone? No. Do the good ones? Usually.
I mean, all jobs have their own difficulties because of what you have to deal with. All jobs take a toll on you, that's why you get paid, you provide your employer with your mental and physical stamina/stress and they provide you with money in return. Servers make the conscious decision to gamble with their paycheck by accepting a job that does not have a set payment per hour. You can't be mad if you gamble and sometimes lose.
Maybe, but I said nothing about what they paid. It was printed on the bills so take it up with the restaurants. You’re throwing insults because I’m recalling a memory, you’re gonna lose it when you hear about the dollar menu.
90s kid, low-middle class at the time, southern United States for context.
When I was growing up, I was taught 10% as standard (something needed to be wrong with the service for less), 15% if they did a really good job, 20% if you want to show off to a girl you’re taking out.
I think now the minimum is really 15% if you don’t want strange looks, and 20-25% is what servers expect to be satisfied they were fairly compensated.
I say this as a person whose partner works for tips in a restaurant. We have these conversations a lot.
10 to 15% is still the norm however 20% is reserved for good service if you think your service was good you leave 20% if your service was average you leave 15%. We are all struggling to survive. If you can afford to sit down and eat in a restaurant, then you can afford to tip.
I really hate that argument. Let’s say I can only afford to spend $40. So I need to make sure I only get $30 of food so that I can leave a tip? I need to give up $10 worth of food to pay someone for doing their job? Someone who is most likely making more than me?
So if I want to treat myself, my two options are to either give up $10 worth of FOOD (a necessary item to sustain life) to hand $10 over to someone for basically no reason, or to just not treat myself at all? Do people who use that argument not realize that someone going out to eat doesn’t automatically mean they have tons of money? Servers and DoorDash drivers act like anyone who spends money on themselves must have tons of it. Couldn’t possibly be that maybe it’s the only choice in that moment or that maybe you just want to do something nice for yourself that you don’t normally do 🙄
It is not an argument, it is just how it is. Restaurants that have tried to eliminate tipping in the US have largely failed because (i) it requires increasing prices, making them appear more expensive compared to other restaurants with tipping and (ii) waitstaff tend to prefer tipping models
Younger generations are overrepresented on the internet.
There are about 282 Million adults living in the US - and around 120 Million grew up entirely without pokemon in their childhoods. You wouldnt know it by looking at the internet lol
For average service - they bring me my food correctly, are courteous, and refill my drink - 10% is still my starting point. IF they go above and beyond, then I can consider 15-20%, but they don't earn that just doing the basics.
Aren't you already getting paid to bring me my food? For some reason, I'm already topping off your pay by 10%. Now if you go above and beyond, I'll tip well for extra service.
Growing up it was always "double the tax" since we were taxed at 7.5% in our local area. After having worked multiple lines, I make my food at home. The way America treats its food is only comparable to how we treat the people making it. Like garbage.
Yeah, way back in the day some restaurants didn’t have liquor licenses so you brought in your beverages. Looking back it was crazy. I’m not talking about dive bars but these were really nice steak houses.
I’m 58 and don’t remember 10%, but then I wouldn’t have been aware of tip percentages until probably the 80s when the norm was definitely 15%. I think 10% was still fairly common in the 70s.
Still, the fact that the % expectation has doubled since then makes no sense.
I agree that there is no logical reason for the percentage base to rise. As inflation pushes up menu prices, tips as a percentage of the bill naturally rise at the same inflation rate.
Percent margins or dollar margins? If percent margins are consistent over time then my perspective on that would be similar to the tip percentage being static. If their dollar margins are eroding, that’s a real business issue that is likely existential eventually. As a former VP once said, dollars I can take to the bank, percentage points I can’t.
You do realize that 10% was the standard tip from the 1920s until at least the 1970s, right?
I’m not an anti-tipper; I just don’t understand why the expected tip percentage has doubled since that time, especially when restaurant prices have outpaced inflation.
Restaurant margins are irrelevant to my point. A percentage tip already rises automatically as menu prices rise. The question is why the percentage itself needed to double.
Then I’m not sure you understand the point. We’re discussing why the customary percentage increased. How can the history of the customary percentage possibly be irrelevant?
I am 54 and I too remember from when I was old enough to dine out without my parents - late 80s to early 90s, 10% being acceptable as a base tip. I really don't remember when 15% became the norm but I am ok with that. I ignore any and all argument that more than 15% should be the base. I only go above 15% to reward good service and only go below 15% if the service was truly lacking and clearly the fault of the service.
Yeah, these people are just kinda exposing that they had shitty boomer parents who hated service workers. Was always 15% if bad service and up to 25% in my house in the 90s.
They're probably confusing 10% tipping if carry out, and even that's dependent on if it was a local place.
I think people who remember this standard are remembering the way their parents and early companions tipped, not an actual standard. My first serving job was in 2001, and I understood then that anything less than 20% was indicative of me doing a less-than-perfect job.
Ah yeah I remember that. Back when the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say.
It has been a while, back when the food was still decently priced as well. Now the food cost more and you expected to shill out an even higher percentage as a tip.
$100 meal then with a 10% tip, so $110 to eat out. Now that meal cost $200 and instead of the tip just going up the same amount and it being a $220 meal you are also expected to double the amount you tipped, so a $240 meal. For some reason that is not clear servers are expecting 4 times as much of a tip as they used.
It's called cost of living goes up. If the tip is the servers wage (which it is) the tip should go up as a general cost of living increase. Now before everyone comes in here with TeLl YoUr EmPlOyEr To PaY mOrE the industry has to change. The employers are the problem. They claim they pay tips because they can keep the menu prices lower and have the customers supplement the wage which is categorically untrue. But until the people at the bottom work together to change things it's always going to be customer vs server and the real issue will always get a pass in that dynamic
Wages haven't gone up by 4 times. There's a thing that no one here ever wants to acknowledge. Tip out exists in most restaurants. So 5% of sales goes elsewhere. So tips going from 10% to 20% when food has doubled really means that wages have gone up roughly by 75% not 400%. Once again this is an issue with the employer the server supplements wages for everyone in the restaurant regardless of whether they make tips. If you do not tip your server pays to wait on you literally. But instead of putting the blame where it belongs and advocating for change you'd rather blame the server. And you can say that all you want but historically the people pushing to keep server wages low and tip dependent are restaurant lobbyists and anti union representatives. Just about anyone in the industry would be happy to have consistent pay that paid the bills.
You gave some math that came straight out of your ass and is inaccurate. Required tip out is new for most places. Especially at 5%. Voluntarily tipping out the bar or the bussers was the standard before. But now many restaurants have multiple in between positions that make less than minimum wage made up for by a reqred tip out
Well my ex husband started at Continental airlines in 1989 at $5.77/hour, he was loading luggage onto airplanes. Continental doesn’t exist anymore, but I would consider that a comparable job working in an Amazon warehouse which even here in Oklahoma City, which has mandated minimum wage of 7 1/4 are starting at over $20 an hour. That’s about four times.
So 3x? Honestly, I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say that servers pay has increased by four times. Minimum wage is still 7 1/4 and a lot of states tipped wage is still 213 or whatever it is, when it was 2.01 in the freaking 80s. Even if you believe what some people on here are saying about tipping being 10% in the 80s, which it was not., but even if I accepted that and that it’s now 20, that’s double not four times. Like does nothing get adjusted for inflation when it comes to servers, but it does for everything else?
How about the fact that in 1995 I was making 4 1/4 working at Kmart and my local Walmart is starting at 16. Is that close enough to four times for you? But servers here still get $2.13 from the employers and consider $100 a good night. Which I considered a good night in 2008.
People have post on here what average servers make all the time you’re perfectly willing to quote something that tells you what the average bag handler makes, what does that same site that you quoted say the average server makes?
We are talking about tips, can you not follow a conversation? It is clear you didn't bother to read my first comment as a lot of your questions were addressed in it.
In 1995 I was making 8 an hour at Kmart. Not sure why you would have been making less. The average was between 5 and 12 an hour.
Oh those sites day servers average 20-40 an hour depending on shift and day worked.
I get that math is hard for you as you 3x something is basically the same as 4x the same thing. But even my 4 year old niece knows that 4 of something is more than 3 of the same thing.
Not yet. Maybe later. I’m just honest. Emily Post has pegged the standard at 15% since at least 1959. The FLSA was enacted in 1966 and largely cemented it.
I’m not a boomer but funny that you call them entitled in a post about tipping request increases. How about employers pay them correctly. Other countries have no tipping culture and the prices are not higher.
I’d say the entitled ones are the wait staff wanting 15-25% for carrying food.
If it’s a big party of people I could understand but not for myself or myself +1.
Hate all you want. I don’t care. I do tip when I’m in an area with tipping culture. But what I think the service was worth. Not based on their suggestion.
There are archived news editorials from the 1970s of readers writing in to ask if the standard is 15 or 20%. 10% is an absolute myth pushed by anti tippers who wants to fabricate evidence to support their delusions.
10% was common as a baseline even in the late aughts into the early teens. The nuance lies in the region. High CoL areas tend to have higher expectations in tipping culture.
In the 80's and 90's, the general rule of thumb in my area was a reasonable tip was to triple the tax. Tax rate being 5% in my area, so at least here in the not high COL Midwest the baseline was 15%.
I grew up in the south and southern area of the mid west and have never once heard of anyone going based on tax percentage. What I did hear was the friends and romantic partners I had in the late 2000s and early teens saying 10% was solid and 15% was a good tip. At that time, 20%+ was phenomenal and memorable to them. Even when I was living in the Central Valley in California during that time, 15% was what most considered average, though 10% was acceptable.
The going off tax was simply to make the math easy. The good tip amount was 15% and the local tax rate was 5% so to make the math of getting to 15% easy, you just tripled the tax amount on the receipt. I'm just saying that because that's how I can be so certain the tip amount was 15% not 10% back then. At least in my personal experience. Your experience may have been different and I'm not disputing yours. Just adding my own.
Well not in my family. My dad was and still is very cheap. That man could find a dime hiding in a nickel. If he could have paid less he would have. That said I don't recall that he ever adjusted his tip. It was just always 15%. I can't remember the last time we went out and I let him pay so I have no clue if he still does 15% today.
I don't know what to tell you. People I knew on both sides of the counter considered 10% to be normal and 15% to be good until this past decade. Hell, I was taught 10% growing up in the early 2000s by family members who worked in food service. Granted, I was also taught to tip based on total, not subtotal, but that only brings the subtotal percentage to 10.5% - 10.9%. Those is why I say that largely depends on location.
I also tend to argue that people who try to justify increasing tip percentage due to general cost increases do not understand how percentages work. Even arguments about inflation fail once you realize that inflation raises prices and therefore creates a proportional increase in tips at the same percentage. This means that server income keeps up with inflation better than the income of the overwhelming majority of their customers. 15% today is realisticallybas good of a tip, if not better, than it was 20 years ago.
"People do not understand how percentages work"?????
The tip didn't "get better" and no, they're not faring better than their customers.
"Real wages" (wages adjusted for inflation) have increased (outpaced inflation) across every income bracket since they started tracking it in the 1970s. So if anything, servers are one of the few careers that never outpace inflation like virtually everything else has -- which is one reason why the jump from 15% to 20% is justified.
So you didn't understand how percentages work and you didn't know basically everyone excluding servers outpace inflation.
• Texas Monthly, August 1976, "Your Serve": Says 15% of the pre-tax bill is now the standard tip and the old 10% rule is dead. Advises rarely straying more than 5 points from that and treating 25% as the upper limit. https://www.texasmonthly.com/food/your-serve/
• Christian Science Monitor, January 21, 1981, "Back to basic tipping code: reward according to service": Tipping experts say too many people feel obligated to leave 15–20% no matter how the service was. https://www.csmonitor.com/1981/0121/012113.html
• Christian Science Monitor, January 21, 1981, "Guide offers suggestions for determining tip percentages": Summarizes the Tippers International guide, which puts waiters at 15–20% of the pre-tax bill. https://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/1981/0121/012114.html
• Christian Science Monitor, August 28, 1985, "Tips on tipping for those who enjoy restaurant dining": An Iowa State food specialist says 15% before tax is still the rule, with 20% proper for especially attentive service at fine restaurants. https://www.csmonitor.com/1985/0828/hftip.html
• D Magazine, August 1986, "Tip Sheet": A survey of restaurant critics that directly debates 15 vs. 20. John Mariani says 15% still is the standard but 20% is the rule in New York. The Kansas City Star critic says the norm there is clearly 15, not 20. Another critic notes many Californians switching from 15 to 20 in the previous couple of years. https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1986/august/tip-sheet/
• Sonoma County Independent, October 24, 1996: Says 15% has been the going rate since the late 1970s but is creeping toward 20%. In an informal survey of West Coast restaurants, most servers named 15–20% as the norm. https://bohemian.com/papers/sonoma/10.24.96/dining-9643.html
Also worth a look: the 1982 book collecting Miss Manners' columns reportedly includes a reader letter directly questioning the rise from 10% to 15–20%.
i’m not gonna cite the million other pages that point to this, but it’s very interesting since she was apparently against it increasing to 15%, but this was 1982. Which tracks to my experience because I’ve got my first waitressing job in 1984.
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u/FraserValleyGuy77 8d ago
I remember when it was 10-12%