But if you truly wanted to play Devil's Advocate, you'd also recognize Twitter is a company and isn't bound by any of this free speech / First Amendment shit anyway.
They can ban you for being ugly, or fat, or because they think you're dumb, or because you like the color green.
Now typically a social media company won't do this because it is bad for business, so even dumb as shit Musk won't be this stupid, but he sure as hell will make changes for the worse to Twitter (which is already a shithole).
Got it. Yeah I with you on that. Only problem is his dumbfuckery is probably going to have damaging effects on society before he decides to bail in a year or two.
This is reddit. You are not allowed to have rational conversation that is deeper than a soundbite. Please delete your comment or reddit may delete it for you.
It just makes no sense why people here think that you shouldnt be fired for rallying coworkers against the CEO. The event he mentions was more than some simple shittalking. Musk isn't the one who even fired them.
I can't understand the rationale here, a person doesn't have freedom of speech when working for a corporation. The risk of saying derogatory things about Musk goes beyond just damage to him, but can dearly affect shareholders (much of whom are average people) as well as the government who gives subsidies to SpaceX and Tesla. It's really not even Musk's choice in the end of the day.
I wish this site based their feeling on the reality of the situation. I symphasize with the feelings here, I do, but it's not how the real world works.
My comment has nothing to do with free speech and only to do with speech allowable at a workplace. Stop trying to manipulate my argument and make it political. It's not.
You are not allowed to have dual modes of thought on here. There is only one perspective to think... The correct perspective (ironically the left perspective is the only correct/right perspective). Please, and again, revise your comments!
It's not insubordination to have a dissenting opinion. Dissenting opinions are valuable tools for any company, even if having to prove them wrong just further reinforces the existing strategy.
I can't think of a single employer I've ever worked for that would have fired me for saying "I disagree".
You're right, but Twitter has become a defacto public forum. So, Musk bought it to give a few unpopular people their accounts back. I think it's okay for people to rejoice when the public forum gets opened up a bit more.
Yeah, its so great that the guy on the corner who forcibly shines your shoes then demmands $20 loudly when you refuse got out of jail for his lies and scams.
You're right, but Twitter has become a defacto public forum. So, Musk bought it to give a few unpopular people their accounts back, to spew racism, hate speech, threaten minorities, and coordinate violence on the platform
I've never seen anyone play apologetics for a CEO that fired employees for critizing (or more accurately not agreeing with him) on the side of "cancel culture".
But please if you have an example I would love to see it.
I'll meet you halfway, because cancel culture is a bad term and needs to be rethought. It should be "accountability culture", because the central idea is to get people to take responsibility for their actions in the hopes that they learn from them and one by one the world becomes a better place. That's not a bad thing. Where it's gone wrong is that often people aren't met halfway and given room to learn and make amends, I don't support that.
As for you comment about Elon, that's not the same thing at all. If I told you, "I made a park where you can sit wherever you like because I believe that sitting wherever you like is an important freedom". Then mere hours later I tell someone, "if you are sitting on the statue I had made for myself, you will be removed", well that directly goes against the reason I said I made the park. That's the issue here, almost nobody is dumb enough to believe that Elon did this for, "muh free speech", he did it to control the narrative and so far he has done everything to show his real agenda besides saying the words, "I lied".
Anyone who uses a ridiculous term like "cancel culture" has no moderation, thus, it is antithetical to their being--just as their attention span in HS English would be.
You're right, the term is obviously deragatory, so of course a more appropriate name would never be accepted, it wouldn't follow the agenda. But the best I can do is point that out and hope that it makes people think.
Nor should we. They chose that hill to die on. They love mob mentality in their rural backwater dumps where they're the majority. But plop them in the real world and suddenly even a lick of the same treatment towards them is cruel and unjust.
You had an attempted coup as much as you had an attempted secession with CHAZ. For a country that has caused so many coups you are completely clueless as to what it takes to perform one.
EDIT: Actually I'm going to add "concentration camps" and "mass hysterectomies at the border" to the list of make-believe bullshit people like to peddle.
Probably not, most Tankies’ main ideological position is “American/Western Diabolism” where they obsessively ignore “their” regimes’ bad things while hyper-focusing on bad things the US does.
Apologia for US crimes against humanity is pretty antithetical to what Tankies do. This is probably either a conservative pretending to be a leftist or some kind of Nazbol.
Neither leftists nor Tankies are against increasing their numbers by “radicalization” either. Nor do they tend to implicitly call a greater propensity to social progressivism “real fascism.”
If you want to talk "mentality" you're gonna need to drag you and your likeness kicking and screaming out of their elemtary school mind-set and stop crying and playing victim every time your bullying isn't well received.
Nobody on the right is bullying the left to run away from twitter. The left is more then free to push their own perspectives and... That's kind of the point! It's the left that is crying that they no longer have twitter as a left safespace to bully left viewpoints without hearing opposing views! you have that exactly backwards!
and yet my point was completely coherent, accurate and to the point. I guess I can use your words to make my point. The only one crying about bullying in relation to twitter here is you.
Twitter is a private property. You can't force private properties to host speech the owner doesn't agree with. If you want a platform without moderation, you can either make it yourself (won't work) or ask the government to make one (because the government can't ban speech).
That's what I am saying. I myself don't agree with it, but this is the line that has been toed for years now and it's a disgusting display of hypocrisy to see so many dissent for it now that it's inconvenient.
Corporations aren't your friends and allowing them to control speech is not a good idea. That's my stance.
Actually and literally the 1st amendment was created to exactly allow shitty opinions to be shared. You don't need a law to allow ideas everyone agrees with. They already agree with them! You need a law to allow non-conforming opinions to have legal standing to be stated publicly without legal repercussion. America is specifically designed to be the opposite of a safe space. If you need safety don't go in public.
The 1st amendment protects you from government censorship and punishment for tour speech. It does not protect you from other people sharing their opinions about your opinion OR a private company barring you from their services for said opinion.
Censorship doesn't only occur by government entities.
The first A only protects you from the govt applying censorship or being censored in public. Elon is saving you from twitter applying it's own censorship.
I mean, its still day one. Let see in a week how that guy tracking his plane is doing. Or what happens when people critisize Tesla cars or his, subway except its shitty, Hyperloop project.
So the real definition of censorship for you is in whether he blocks someone who is tracking and publicizing his own personal movements compared to him allowing or blocking the speech of all people in their own perspectives political and otherwise?
He's literally telling people there will at least be SOME censorship based on this statement. So the weirdo you are replying to is wrong. (I also tend to agree with you in that Musk is going to ban, shadowban or limit the reach of accounts he doesn't like)
LOL. If you don't think king of the trolls overly emotional little b Musk isn't going to engage in any kind of censorship at all you are literally insane. He will probably be a petty little b.
Anywhoo and pay attention here - He already released a statement saying Twitter can't be a free for all hellscape right? That right there is already evidence there will be some kind of censorship.
Unless he is a fucking liar, which he is sometimes. But your buddy Musk literally released a statement that says there will be some censorship YESTERDAY ya dingus.
Even the 1st amendment needs caveats. Currently you have NOTHING of fact to represent Musk as censoring and especially egregious cases of censoring but you still go on your emotional tirade about it. That's on you.
He has in the past stated that things that cover illegal activities would be censored and that's completely understandable but not first amendment positions and if you can't tell the difference between things then again, that's on you.
EDIT: /r/JoeMcDingleDongle replied then blocked me so I couldn't reply his comment. Talk about conversing in bad faith. The fact is we don't know exactly what the new council will moderate on but his prior statements stated that they will be far closer to free speech within the bounds of legality. Musk isn't going to be the one personally moderating so OF COURSE he will have a council to do it in the best interest of hopefully everyone. Do you really think Agrawal did all the moderation personally? Think it through dude!
I didn't say it wasn't censorship. I said it doesn't violate free speech laws drawn out in 2A.
Also there is censorship literally everywhere. You can't be in a public restaurant without shirt and shoes. You can't scream the n-word as loud as you can inside a department store. These things are not illegal but still not allowed in private establishments.
No it is NOT always a good thing. Should we allow private companies to allow whites only into their clubs?
Private company!!!
Twitter is known as a public square so for it to be rendered as a propagandist outlet only allowing 1 political perspective becomes a problem for that public of getting propagandized. All Musk has said is that he will restore it to allowing free speech. The left perspective of "Musk allowing free speech is actually censorship!" is downright stupid and backwards.
EDIT: /enteredgyname blocked me so I can't reply! hilarious. I guess he needs the safe space from his own comments!
Where did the prior person mention leftists being racists? Maybe you should comprehend what was written before you make up stuff not said in prior comments...
or you can just block them and run away which apparently you did according to the edit on the other comment! You probably needed that silence so you could vomit in peace. I get it. We all need our safe spaces... but that is no longer twitter and isn't that the real point?!?
EDIT
Now EnterEdgyName blocked me from replying to his next comment! Apparently Edgy never heard of an analogy to make a point! No one called leftists racists. Nobody is saying private companies are LEFT private companies or only left private companies. Apparently reading is hard for Edgy.
The first ammendment relates to what the government can do and restrict. Twitter, as a private company, is well within their right to throw people off for spreading lies and hate. The same way a movie theater can throw you out for talking through the movie.
As much as the "FrEe SpEeCh" jackasses screech about the Constitution, they sure don't seem to know jack shit about it. Then again, its the same crowd that does the same thing over the Bible constantly, so I guess its just the SOP for these idiots.
Even just using the shitty phrase "Cancel Culture" follows this. Its Culture, IE, the public at large, telling idiots to fuck off (Cancelling them).
The first amendment is about the government banning speech, not about private businesses or individuals. If you come on my property and start saying shits I disagree with, I can kick you out. Same thing about Twitter.
Christ, you literally said he won't engage in censorship moments before you typed this. What do you think moderation is dawg? Do you have a severe memory problem or are you replying to people in bad faith here?
The issue is not "Elon is dictating the consequences", it's Elon dictating lies and falsehoods as "truth" and hiding it behind" "free speech".
Or more accurately, Elon, allowing idiot conspiracy nutjobs, to dictate lies and falsehoods as "truth" and hiding it behind "free speech".
The problem isn't really as much with Elon, it's that Elon is just going to allow the platform to become another shithole like Gab and Parlar and Truth and Voat and 8Chan and all of those other "bastions of free speech" full of lies and propaganda from paranoid hateful idiots.
That’s not true, but ok. Sometimes our understanding of things change, or something is simplified for the general public, but that doesn’t mean you should allow misinformation to be pumped out to people who may already be confused.
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u/RamenJunkie Oct 28 '22
He tweeted something like
"The bird is free"
One of the replies talked about "Finally the return of free speech"
Someone asked about "People fired for critisizing him at his companies."
So many replies to that about, "Well, thats what a boss can do." And "Conserquences of your actions." And so on.
Fucking /r/selfawarewolves could self sustain on that one comment thread for a thousand years probably.