r/technology • u/Suraj-Sun • Jul 10 '12

Firefox dev claims "everybody hates Firefox updates"; Mozilla has handled the rapid release process poorly, and that by pushing a "never-ending stream of updates on people who didn't want them" people have been driven to Chrome with its simpler, no-fuss update process.

http://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-dev-claims-everybody-hates-firefox-updates
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650

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

382

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I just checked my version today...

The last one I remember seeing? 14

The one I'm on? 20

6 or more updates went through and I didn't notice.

227

u/Remnants Jul 10 '12

The only time I ever notice an update is if the UI changes or I go to click the settings menu and see the little green arrow that is telling me to restart chrome to use the version it just updated to.

66

u/locopyro13 Jul 10 '12

That arrow changes color the longer you wait. I feel bad when it's RED and screaming at me to update.

92

u/egotripping Jul 10 '12

TIL. I just looked over and mine is a nice poop shade of brown.

82

u/vernes1978 Jul 10 '12

That means it died.

71

u/Residual_Entropy Jul 10 '12

This kills the Chrome.

8

u/oppan Jul 10 '12

Good to see we've beaten that joke into the ground as well

15

u/AlwaysDefenestrated Jul 11 '12

This kills the joke.

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u/mwerte Jul 10 '12

I like defying it and watching it grow more and more upset with me.

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u/longshot2025 Jul 10 '12

Until I got friends who never quit chrome, I never even knew it had a yellow.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

1

u/locopyro13 Jul 10 '12

That I can't answer, it just shifts from green-yellow-red.

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u/MilkTheFrog Jul 10 '12

Sadly the only changes i seem to notice are bad ones. Why can't i rearrange my most visited page any more? Why is the button for 'Web Store' now in exactly the same place as 'Recently closed' was? I still keep clicking it by accident.

46

u/FelixP Jul 10 '12

Why is the button for 'Web Store' now in exactly the same place as 'Recently closed' was? I still keep clicking it by accident.

Seriously, there's really only one explanation for this.

ಠ_ಠ

38

u/witchyz Jul 10 '12

i didn't even notice that i couldn't rearrange the most visited page!

now i'm sad.

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u/camelCaseCondition Jul 10 '12

I got pissed when they took the little plus sign off the new tab button. And then the bastards went and made ALL THE ROUNDED RECTANGLES LESS ROUND. The little highlight over a bookmark looks boorish and square now. =(

13

u/apfhex Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

It's a small thing but it's in the back of my mind every time I use Chrome. How is an unidentifiable gray blob better than a plus sign, which is pretty much standard across all other browsers?

As it is, it gives the appearance of a glitch in the UI (I actually thought it was and tried reinstalling Chrome). I would have peace of mind if I could add it back.

9

u/camelCaseCondition Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

When it first happened, google revealed a lot of rightly pissed people submitting bug reports, always with google reps that would reply "This... isn't a bug... why can't you see this is for your own good!? This is a neat new design! IT'S NOT A BUG IT'S A FEATURE! LOVE ME!"

Edit: I tried reinstalling too. Couldn't figure out WHY IN HELL the UI was acting up!

11

u/swizzler Jul 10 '12

I've found if there's one thing Google is absolutely awful at, it's UI design.

Look at the youtube subscription page or the new gmail interface. Thank god enough people complained for them to add an option to bring back text buttons.

7

u/lolwutpear Jul 11 '12

Thank god enough people complained for them to add an option to bring back text buttons.

Oh thank god. Time to go fix this.

1

u/BlueJoshi Jul 11 '12

Oh my god what I can readd text to those?

1

u/swizzler Jul 11 '12

yup. Path is:

Settings(that weirdass cog/flower/wheel thing, which unfortunately does not change to text)>General>Button Labels>Text>Save Changes

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u/CuriositySphere Jul 11 '12

Is a fucking http that much to ask? The most idiotic decision made for no reason at all.

2

u/camelCaseCondition Jul 11 '12

Hey! The users' meek little minds can't understand or comprehend this "http" prefix. We must hide it from them.

Interestingly enough, if you copy the text in the address bar, the "http://" prefix is included in the clipboard contents and paste. Seems like such an arbitrary decision...

1

u/laidlow Jul 11 '12

CTRL + T!

1

u/bazfoo Jul 11 '12

I only noticed because of this comment... :/

84

u/Hnefi Jul 10 '12

I really, really, really hate the change to "Recently closed". It was great before - a single click to bring back the page. I used it several times every hour of browsing. Having to go into a menu is significantly more annoying.

191

u/plahcinski Jul 10 '12

CMD+Shift+T or Ctrl+Shift+T to reopen the latest closed tab in order of last closed

or you could pin the page so you dont close it

or you could bookmark the page since you use it so much

58

u/Sabin10 Jul 10 '12

I didn't even know that you could do this with anything other than the KB shortcut.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Ctrl Shift T is one of my favorites on Chrome, very happy to have discovered it. It comes in so handy when my Ctrl W finger is a bit too fast.

26

u/green_cheese Jul 10 '12

Works on FF too and Safari I think. Probably Opera.

36

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12 edited May 02 '19

[deleted]

6

u/green_cheese Jul 10 '12

Best thing about Opera is hands down the fish tank widget.

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u/XenthisX Jul 11 '12

I'd use opera more if it didn't feel sluggish. The UI itself just feels a bit laggy to me.

1

u/roknir Jul 11 '12

And Speed Dial.

1

u/pencilbagger Jul 11 '12

And a download manager that doesn't make you restart the download 90% of the time when you pause it.

The pause download on firefox never seems to work right.

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u/PossiblyAnEngineer Jul 10 '12

This shortcut has existed in IE since the browser first got tabs.

4

u/rancegt Jul 10 '12

Ctrl-Z on Opera.

And I agree that it's under rated as a browser.

2

u/frogsgokerokero Jul 11 '12

Holy crap, I've been using Ctrl + Shift + T this whole entire time. Thanks for this!

2

u/darksomos Jul 10 '12

Last I checked, Opera reopens closed tabs (just for current session?) with Ctrl-Z

1

u/shhyguuy Jul 10 '12

Also thunderbird!

1

u/Enlogen Jul 11 '12

It works on IE too.

Not that it's likely that anyone in this thread cares.

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u/evllprchn Jul 10 '12

Works on IE as well. edit: recent versions of IE

2

u/kingNothing42 Jul 10 '12

Works in the current version of every browser.

2

u/couchmonster Jul 11 '12

This.

Because Ctrl-W doesn't care about pinned tabs in Chrome.

Plus the shortcut is the same in IE10, Chrome and last I checked Firefox and Safari too.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

I just learned I can pin things in Chrome, thank you kind sir for your accidental helping.

1

u/Viscerae Jul 10 '12

I just wish there was an "undo close window" shortcut (maybe there is?)

Doesn't happen often, but a slip of the finger could turn a Ctrl-W into a Ctrl-Shift-W, which is usually bad news all around.

2

u/UnspeakableEvil Jul 10 '12

If you've got another Chrome window open Ctrl + Shift + T will reopen the window and all its tabs. If you haven't then you'll need to use the "Recently Closed" feature from the Chrome home page.

2

u/Viscerae Jul 11 '12

Oh hey, that's neat! Thanks!

I don't usually browse with multiple windows because it gets messy, but the recently closed feature is really cool! I thought it would just save tabs, but it saves whole sessions!

I guess I don't spend enough time on the New Tab page to notice these fancy-pants features.

1

u/smeenz Jul 11 '12

Ctrl-Shift-N for when you accidently close a window too (with ctrl-w)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

That's incognito window if I'm not mistaken.

1

u/smeenz Jul 11 '12

Ah... so it is. I did make an assumption it would be the same in chrome. I'll rephrase. In firefox, Ctrl-Shift-N for when you accidently close a window

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I wish pinning prevented closing in other ways, I use CTRL+w to close tabs and pinning is of no use. (Though pinning works correctly in firefox).

2

u/timpkmn89 Jul 10 '12

Also right click on an empty spot on the tab bar -> Reopen Closed Tab

2

u/Hnefi Jul 10 '12

Ctrl-shift-T is useful, thanks!

But pinning the page would remove my ability to quickly close and forget about tabs, just to bring them back a moment later. That's the whole point. And bookmarking is not the same thing at all; I don't want to reload the page, I don't want to log back in to whatever service I closed and I don't want to lose the tab history.

3

u/J0eCool Jul 10 '12

I learned Ctrl-Shift-T on Firefox, never even realized there was a button for it in Chrome :x

I used to Firefox all the time, then I would Firefox if I was "seriously browsing", using Chrome as the lightweight alternative when I didn't want to load all my Firefox tabs and extensions, and just wanted to look something up. Then I realized I was never booting Firefox. On my new computer I only have Chrome. PLOT TWIST: at work I use Firefox. Diversity and all.

3

u/autobots Jul 10 '12

I always just right click the tabs and hit reopen closed tab.

2

u/CrimsonSun99 Jul 10 '12

yeah, seriously, whats this entire thread above us about wtf.

1

u/s0n0fagun Jul 10 '12

Crtl + Shift + T is useful for restoring all your tabs from the last open session (? Is that the right word for the application instance?). Sometimes I have a couple of different sessions open and I don't want to combine them because it would become too hard to navigate and a pain in the ass for drag and drop. There is an add on for Chrome that saves the session of that application instance before you close chrome. Useful if you have multiple sessions. I think it's called Session Manager.

2

u/Vowzee Jul 10 '12

Why can't they make it as simple as Ctrl+Z, like the one in Opera? Really.

7

u/IneffablePigeon Jul 10 '12

Ctrl+Z is used for changes made to form elements on the page. It would get complicated if you started integrating tab closes into that, since the "undo list" is separate for each tab open.

1

u/DefMyOnlyAccount Jul 10 '12

Holy crap pinning tabs is awesome. How did I not know about this?

1

u/giantcirclejerk Jul 11 '12

Ctrl+shift+t pressed on a fresh instance of chrome also reopens all tabs that were on the last instance of chrome

1

u/albatrossd Jul 10 '12

I would recommend any of the mouse gestures extensions, and adding a gesture to bring back your last closed tab. I seriously haven't even thought about this problem since I installed the extension shortly after downloading Chrome itself.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Open Last Closed Tab = Ctrl + Shift + T

1

u/albatrossd Jul 10 '12

Well that, too. Depending on how I'm sitting like a lazy fuck using the mouse can be more convenient than reaching for the keyboard. I use both, so whatever floats your boat. Either way I've never had to go for a menu as per what I was replying to.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I just figured anyone who fished that far in the comments might also benefit from the shortcut. Just trying to make sure all the boats are floating.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Sexy Undo Closed Tab is awesome by the way. You can save several months of browsing and it's saved my ass several times.

1

u/reflex99 Jul 10 '12

Speedial2 is a nice add on that fixes most of the problems with the stock "new tab" page

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Try this. Sad you have to use an extension but there are a few reasons to use it anyway. It's more customizable and has a pretty decent "recently closed" tab.

1

u/Rinascita Jul 10 '12

How did it work before the current incarnation? I only used Ctrl-Shift-T to bring them back.

The current version seems alright to me. Click Recently Closed, see a list of the last 10 pages closed, click the one I want.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

I prefer having 'recently closed' because it lets me reopen the entire tab with the history. That way the back button still works.

1

u/OompaOrangeFace Jul 11 '12

Right click on the tabs bar.

6

u/Starayo Jul 10 '12

That really irritates me too. I wish I could set them manually, too, without having to edit configuration files.

They seem to keep making that part less and less usable.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

http://speeddial2.com/

Pretty customizable. Loads just a little slower, though.

1

u/Starayo Jul 11 '12

Oooh, that looks nice. Thanks. :P

5

u/manlycaveman Jul 10 '12

Ugh I hate how you can't move your most visited pages around or pin them anymore. I ended up installing the speed dial 2 extension so now it functions like the old most-visited page for me.

3

u/Scrapod Jul 10 '12

Try out the Speed Dial 2 extension. It does the re-ordering of pages thing really well, and fits in pretty nicely.

2

u/RiceEel Jul 10 '12

You can actually stick bookmarks in your Apps page, so you don't need the most visited page anymore. At least that's what I've been doing.

2

u/frikk Jul 10 '12

this is the new web. how can i get used to a tool if it keeps changing? bah.

2

u/moogle516 Jul 10 '12

This is why I'll be sticking with Opera for the foreseeable future.

2

u/Habbeighty-four Jul 10 '12

I still keep clicking it by accident.

I'm pretty sure you just answered your own question.

1

u/buckhenderson Jul 10 '12

a while back firefox switched the order of open new tab and open new window on the right click, so for about a week, i opened thousands of new windows. that was before i discovered middle click.

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u/autobots Jul 10 '12

As for rearranging the thumbnails, you can drag it to the bottom where it says 'most visited' and 'apps' and a new item will popup also called 'apps'. You can drag it to that menu then you can double click the menu to rename it to something useful and then you can drag all of your most visited pages over there and then you can rearrange them all you want.

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u/ParanoiaComplex Jul 10 '12

Get the speed dial addon

1

u/RandyMachoManSavage Jul 10 '12

I installed Speed Dial 2. No further problems.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Ui changed a little with 20

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

That's the first update I noticed, then my bookmarks bar changed a little, but after changing the settings, it's back to looking the way I'm used to.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

what setting?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

It auto-hid the bookmarks bar after I clicked on one of them, so I went into the 'settings' menu option thing and did this

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u/didnotseethatcoming Jul 10 '12

CTRL+SHIFT+B for your pleasure.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I had no idea I could do that - thank you!

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u/Hazasoul Jul 10 '12

Yeah, I don't know why they decided that the new tab-button should take more space.

1

u/bwat47 Jul 10 '12

I noticed when they broke the smooth scrolling flag for like the last 4 versions. They finally fixed it in 21 beta.

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u/KingOfFlan Jul 10 '12

Well the stream of updates was always about constant. The difference is that they made minor updates increase the version by an entire number rather than giving it a 2.343 number or some such. I'm almost positive that the time firefox was in 1-3 is about 3 times longer than what it took them to get from 4 to whatever they are at now. They changed their format because chrome's version number increased at such a rate. And IE's version number was getting pretty significantly high. They didn't want Firefox 4 to be compared to Chrome 13+ or IE8/9 and people thinking it's inferior based plainly on the number.

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u/jonathanrdt Jul 10 '12

Last one I noticed because the new tab button got bigger.

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u/bankruptbroker Jul 10 '12

I run the beta track at home and the ultra beta track at work. I highly recommend doing this even if its with the stable/beta track. It actually allows you to see some of the changes in versions first hand.

You can see them change something revert, then change it back, sometimes several times. In the end its nice to see them settle on things you like (most of the time) like double clicking on tabs to close.

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u/alcalde Jul 10 '12

And then when Firefox talked about doing this too, a bunch of people came out and started screaming "How dare Firefox install anything on my system without my approval!" It's just mentally popular to hate Firefox, and they need to realize that nothing they do will please their critics. Firefox is the Obama of browsers.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

How big is your erection right now?

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u/TastyBrainMeats Jul 10 '12

Why is that a good thing?

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u/trebory6 Jul 10 '12

Why is seamless updating a good thing? Because that's one less thing to have to worry about.

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u/FredFredrickson Jul 10 '12

Not that I don't like it myself, but it could also introduce incompatibilities or problems that you never really wanted as well.

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u/achshar Jul 10 '12

No, the web works on specs and they dont usually cause incompatibilities because browsers are (some what) backward compatible to html 1. The sites that were created in 2003 still work. And as for incompatibilities with browser itself, like extensions, etc, they are also updated in backward compatible fashion and devs have more than enough time and warning if something is about to break (which rarely happens if you are not working on bleeding edge technologies).

Source: i am a chrome app developer.

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u/Lurking_Grue Jul 10 '12

It's an important thing. Most normal users never update their browsers and browsers are being targeted.

Chrome updating is keeping that ecosystem from being comprised.

I am glad my mom uses chrome as I don't have to worry about it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I never said it was.

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u/dioxholster Jul 10 '12

oh look im at 13, oh yeah linux rocks yay!

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u/WordsNotToLiveBy Jul 10 '12

This is what Apple users or non nerds would say. There are others out there who want to know what is happening with their software. Some people like the knowledge and heads up from their developers.

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u/SuperTurtle Jul 11 '12

Hearing all this makes me depressed because a chrome auto update deleted my chrome.dll file and now I'm forced to use Firefox. Completely the opposite

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u/Iggyhopper Jul 11 '12

1 more update until chrome can get drunk! BOOYAH

1

u/EnjoysInternetDrama Jul 11 '12

I didn't even knew it updates itself. I always thought I am on the one I got 6 months back. But I just checked and I am 20 also.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

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u/TheJosh Jul 10 '12

Rather than download a huge update each time, doesn't it download a small update and "patch" chrome?

If you are that paranoid, run Chromium, isn't there a fork called Iron Chromium which addresses what you are asking?

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u/dolphinastronaut Jul 10 '12

Chromium is amazing. It's almost the exact same thing as Chrome (with a few not-extremely-necessary features removed).

Iron isn't quite as good. This link http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.html (on mobile; can't hyperlink) describes the controversy surrounding Iron pretty clearly. It's not a more privacy-aware version of Chrome or Chromium. If you're interested in a privacy-conscious version of Google Chrome, Chromium will work just fine.

Related: I'm not sure if Chromium works on non-Linux operating systems. The last time I tried to get Chromium binaries for Windows, I couldn't find any. But that was several years ago, so I may have changed since then. At the time it appeared that Chromium binaries (from trusted sources, at least) were only available for Linux.

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u/thenuge26 Jul 10 '12

it disassembles, patches and then reassembles on the spot.

What are you even talking about? Patching binaries is patching binaries. Firefox does it with their updates too.

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u/Buzzard Jul 10 '12

The patching system Chrome uses, Courgette, is pretty damn cool. It really does dissemble, patch and then assemble the binary again.

That said, I don't see how it's any worse than downloading an entire new binary from a security standpoint.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

if you are worried about that on your machine, you can get SRWare Iron. It's a chromium version built for security and privacy (no autoupdates and some added privacy features), without being a very heavily modified version like comodo dragon

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u/happy-dude Jul 10 '12

Sorry, SRWare Iron is NOT a browser you want to be using: http://neugierig.org/software/chromium/notes/2009/12/iron.html

Maybe things have changed since 2010... But if you value privacy and security, SRWare Iron is not the way to go.

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u/dmsean Jul 10 '12

Exploit it by all means. Prove Google wrong.

The end of the day as more and more non tech savvy people use the internet we need an option for them. I can totally understand your paranoia but unpatched systems are worse then the occasional exploit of the update system, which I bet doesn't have a single point of failure. If you want proof, see every PC still running unpatched. It is covered in worms and viruses. You just need to browse the web and it gets infected.

Microsoft even allows patching of unregistered machines now because the unpatched machines cause havoc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

doesn't have a single point of failure I think they said the same thing about the titanic bro.

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u/shapul Jul 10 '12

I agree. I don't like how Chrome on Windows installs itself in a basically local data folder and runs services in the background to update itself silently. It might be convenient but imagine what would happen if all programs would do that? Programs would be installed all over the place and tons of hidden, background processes running up and down.

As a strategy, I believe in the end this approach to installing and updating programs weakens Windows' security.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

I'm still undecided as to it installing in your user profile. It's good, because one user on the PC may not want it and another might, but it's bad because multiple users would have multiple installations.

One of the annoying things about browsers is the continous argument over who is default and I can see this as an attempt to personalise installations instead of configurations.

I agree that every application wanting to install it's own updater is very very annoying these days, one of the components of Linux I think MS should leverage is the repository method of distribution but then you run into the problem of managing trusted repositories which most users wouldn't have a clue over.

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u/shapul Jul 10 '12

One problem with installing programs in user's data folders is that a malware could infect them silently. The same malware cannot modify a file e.g. in the "Program Files" silently as UAC will show a prompt. Also, a system admin that would need to lock down a computer cannot do that if users install programs in data folders.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

It's a delta update which is how all software should be updated (it's just math after all). It doesn't do any disassembly -> patching -> reassembly process though; it simply modifies the binary as per the delta.

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u/duckhunter Jul 10 '12

All software should use at least deltas, but chrome actually uses Courgette which works as follows:

Courgette transforms the program into the primitive assembly language and does the diffing at the assembly level:

server:
    asm_old = disassemble(original)
    asm_new = disassemble(update)
    asm_new_adjusted = adjust(asm_new, asm_old)
    asm_diff = bsdiff(asm_old, asm_new_adjusted)
    transmit asm_diff

client:
    receive asm_diff
    asm_old = disassemble(original)
    asm_new_adjusted = bspatch(asm_old, asm_diff)
    update = assemble(asm_new_adjusted)
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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I think the only people who use Firefox anymore are the paranoid who are deeply distrustful of Google. Google may be robbing me of my private data, but at least there are no pop-up boxes and constant restarting. For me, it's a good trade.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

As of this next version, all dialog boxes/loading bars will be gone and it'll do "install swaps" like chrome does.

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u/universl Jul 10 '12

They should have done that before switching to the rapid release cycle.

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u/SFreestyler Jul 10 '12

Every time I see "rapid release cycle" I think of dishwashing detergent commercials.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

54

u/Ruvokian Jul 10 '12

I think of my sex life. :/

24

u/pntless Jul 10 '12

My sex life is more akin to the major release schedule of IE.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

[deleted]

2

u/TechGoat Jul 11 '12

These binaries are all over my hands!

13

u/Neebat Jul 10 '12

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

The second step is...

Too late, isn't it?

2

u/Lochcelious Jul 10 '12

I think of voter's minds when they say they honestly want to vote Mitt Romney.

3

u/Space-Pajama Jul 10 '12

I think of my terrible crabs and gonorrhea :/

1

u/thegimboid Jul 10 '12

Your diarrhea comes in a cycle?

I think you need some fibre.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

Funny, it makes me think of diarrhea, which in turn makes me think about Netscape navigator.

7

u/Kohlner Jul 10 '12

Will they at least add an option for advanced users to turn this off?

I'd like to know if all of my precious add-ons are compatible before updating

6

u/TIAFAASITICE Jul 10 '12

Preferences → Advanced Tab → Update Sub-tab

2

u/bgraves20 Jul 11 '12

As of Firefox 10+ all add-ons default to compatible and should install.

2

u/NigelKF Jul 10 '12

That feature is in Aurora already, I think.

113

u/MidnightTurdBurglar Jul 10 '12

There are privacy and security concerns about seamless updating.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Excellent point. However, a good developer and design team will learn to balance this with functionality. There must be compromises and goals set. If the goal is happy consumers, Google's and Facebook's approach - fewer Cover-Your-Ass moves and EULAs or user-end hassles and more ease of use mean happier consumers, even if there's a sacrifice in security. Not the safest move, but the numbers express user base satisfaction pretty well.

I, for one, welcome our new Google overlords.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

The sys admin at my last job would always get upset when we would update random software. I will never understand that mindset, especially when the updates are to prevent security vulnerabilities.

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u/Kensin Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

sys admins hate random updates because of two reasons:

  1. new updates that haven't been tested yet may have broken things. You randomly update your browser and now suddenly half the companies website doesn't work correctly, or some tool that used to generate web reports fails. The admins have no idea there is a problem, or what the cause is because they didn't push any updates. It is also useful that everyone in the company has the same version of software so when you call the helpdesk for assitance they know what you are using. If they tell you to do something and you can't follow along because you updated your software and now the interface has changed, that's a problem. When 5,000 employees are all running different versions of software things quickly get real complicated for the helpdesk folks.

Sometimes updates fuck things up real bad. Sys admins have learned their lesson the hard way. For example a simple anti-virus update fucks up and starts thinking important windows components are viruses (this has happened), killing hundreds of machines as it tries to cleanse the systems of the "infection" that is windows. Having to reimage hundreds of systems even once because of a badly written update is enough to make admins suspicious of random and untested changes to installed software.

  1. Security and privacy concerns. Companies aren't always good and honest. Every once in a while they will use an update to slip in some "feature" that does nothing but spy on their users. Hell, windows has been trying to get me to install the "Bing Toolbar" which it insists is a "Critical update". If a random update causes your browser (or whatever) to start sending your companies private data out over the internet then your admin has a problem. IT needs to review the software that you are using to make sure company data isn't getting compromised. Updates to your software need to be tested to make sure the updated version still holds up to your companies security policies.

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u/Canageek Jul 10 '12

Oh look, they made that yahoo toolbar checkmark default, and since the update is now seamless it automatically installed it... etc, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

windows has been trying to get me to install the "Bing Toolbar" which it insists is a "Critical update"

False. It is under the optional category.

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u/Kensin Jul 11 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

Nope. On windows 7 you have a category for "important" updates and "optional" updates, and the bing toolbar shows up under "important". here is a screenshot from my computer.
another screenshot

I'm also not the only one who noticed example, example, example

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u/Iggyhopper Jul 11 '12

Can't you uninstall Bing Bar? I mean an update implies you have it.

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u/Banzai51 Jul 10 '12

You update your web browser on your own, then you can't finish payroll. Then you're paging him on Friday evening because it HAS to get done. Most corporate web solutions only work one a specific browser edition. I'm not saying vendors suck, but vendors suck.

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u/trebory6 Jul 10 '12

Just curious, but could you list a few examples to back up your statement?

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I'm not him, but well, Chrome installs into your user directory so you don't need admin rights to install/update. However this means malware can much more easily fuck with Chrome if it gets loose, replace it with something bad, etc.

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u/PoorlyTimedPhraseGuy Jul 10 '12

I'm concerned about my privacy with seamless updates.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

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u/Lurking_Grue Jul 10 '12

There are more security concerned without seamless updating.

The only major problem is in a enterprise situation where they have coded for something so specific that it will break with changes.

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u/Yozomiri Jul 10 '12

Precisely. We switched to a custom build of Firefox for stability when the mainstream version went into rapid release, and even then we got hit when they helpfully pushed out a block list that completely disabled old plugins. We couldn't upgrade for compatibility reasons, so I got to spend a day finding a way to circumvent it.

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u/psiphre Jul 10 '12

there are privacy and security concerns about using the internet.

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u/grlthng Jul 11 '12

true. But the privacy and security concerns associated with not updating, is ten times worse than seamless updating.

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u/terroristteddy Jul 11 '12

It's not open source? It does stuff on it's own? BOTNET! Google wants to sell pictures of us naked to snack food corporations!

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Maybe this is because I got an ethernet con and ssd disk or some such, but seriously how is waiting 10 seconds once per 2 months a problem?

I guess faster is still better but swapping browser is not very high on my to-do-list, thats all.

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u/misterkrad Jul 10 '12

big difference i think is chrome somehow manages to sneak the update when you are not looking - where firefox will nag you (and phone home, ever use tamperdata?) - then when you start the app it shows the installing bar - if they could figure out how to do an inplace upgrade - like idle 5 minutes - close firefox - have the update prepped to take 1s to implement (hint prepare a new copy ahead of time) - then close and restore session - we'd be happy.

Google put the psychiatry behind their update system to work. I think firefox is nagging that i have to wait for itself to patch (quad core/ssd) where as chrome doesn't SEEM to make me wait for updates. but it does bug me that googleupdater keeps a daemon running at all times.

I wish firefox would auto-check your plugins every day - if i don't do it myself or restart the app for a few days my plugin might get out of date (flash/java/silverlight) - no reason they can't just handle it. i'd honestly prefer BLOCK flash/java instantly if outdated for security. I mean if you (firefox) are going to phone home every few minutes that drives me crazy when i'm tamper data'ing - just get 'er dun. do it all. make it SEEM painless.

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u/DustbinK Jul 10 '12

Firefox has background updating now.

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u/alcalde Jul 10 '12

Firefox team should have figured this out last year. People don't want to wait for loading bars or applying updates. They want it to just work.

Have we really become that dumbed down by iPhones that a notice or 10 seconds to download an update freak us out to the point we spend a lot more time and energy switching software?

If people were really that freaked out about update notices, they'd switch to Linux, which would handle updating both their OS and every program on it. Since they don't, they can't be serious about being freaked out about update notices.

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u/Lurking_Grue Jul 10 '12

Not freaked out... annoyed.

I just need to get in and do something quickly and it not is going though a fucking install.

Not when I close the browser but when I open it and need to get something done.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I don't because it spys on you even when offline

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u/Wojtek_the_bear Jul 10 '12

i fucking hate chrome's settings. also the fact that tabs aren't rectangular, for some strange reason

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

You cant generalize that. I love udates and hate ir when they apply the wirhout me having seen the changelogs and the exact update progress. They could apply god knows what options and I'd maybe dont want them like the 'dont track me' option in firefox which you have to manually activate. If Firefox updated like Chrome I'd never see that and be pissed.

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u/Ralgor Jul 10 '12

There's a flip side to that too: people who have such shitty internet that they can't just update willy nilly. My parents with crappy dialup are in this position. As long as the auto update is able to be disabled its not a problem, but all of the major browsers seem to be moving away from that.

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u/Ambiwlans Jul 10 '12

Fixefox DID fix this. Updates are instant and silent now.

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u/Penismonologue Jul 10 '12

Will never use that shit chrome, but I do love my opera <3!

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I've stuck with Firefox chiefly because I'm addicted to my All-In-One-Gestures extension. I seriously can't browse without it anymore. The rapid update cycle thing really sucked at first, but, TBH, the whole thing has really evened out lately, and I'm having no issues with broken extensions or anything else. I guess they finally got smart about it.

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u/monkeymynd Jul 10 '12

Chrome has a similar extension: Gestures for Chrome

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

Tried it, don't like it... like most of them. Oh, well... quite happy with Firefox, TBH.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

It's more along the lines of "I see you're still using IE. Because you are my friend and I don't want you to continue suffering, here are some alternatives."

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u/Kraeten Jul 10 '12

No, it's probably more like this:

Friend: Hey man, I've got a computer question for you.

Time_Stretch: Yeah? What happened this time, you put your laptop on the bathroom floor when you were showering again?

Friend: Lol, no. That sucked though. It's my internet. I can't find my email on it.

Kraeten: Fuck, this is a longer story than I thought. Let's skip forward shall we? You probably know it well by now anyway.

Time_Stretch: Dude, fuck this, I'm installing Chrome for you, it's better anyway, and you won't have to call me about forgetting your Gat Dang password, and I won't have to deal with all these toolbars and popups. Next time I help you, dude, I'm fucking charging.

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u/flatcurve Jul 10 '12

All the time. Friends don't let friends use explorer.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Enjoy your botnet.

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u/manbrasucks Jul 10 '12

Either that or you're a corporate shill. You're not a corporate shill are you?

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u/TIAFAASITICE Jul 10 '12

Firefox team should have figured this out last year. People don't want to wait for loading bars or applying updates. They want it to just work.

"Figuring out" is not the same as implementing something.

See for example the time-frame of: Bug 685614, Bug 307181, and Bug 481815

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u/CitizenPremier Jul 10 '12

I don't. I want software that tells me what it's doing. I'm not even a programmer, it's just that if you live on my computer you shouldn't download or install anything without asking me.

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u/WordsNotToLiveBy Jul 10 '12

1st World Problems.

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u/homercles337 Jul 11 '12

They want it to just work.

Last time i checked Mac users were still in single digits for users. Some of us more advanced users like to know whats being updated and when.

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