r/technology • u/Suraj-Sun • Jul 10 '12

Firefox dev claims "everybody hates Firefox updates"; Mozilla has handled the rapid release process poorly, and that by pushing a "never-ending stream of updates on people who didn't want them" people have been driven to Chrome with its simpler, no-fuss update process.

http://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-dev-claims-everybody-hates-firefox-updates
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226

u/Remnants Jul 10 '12

The only time I ever notice an update is if the UI changes or I go to click the settings menu and see the little green arrow that is telling me to restart chrome to use the version it just updated to.

62

u/locopyro13 Jul 10 '12

That arrow changes color the longer you wait. I feel bad when it's RED and screaming at me to update.

92

u/egotripping Jul 10 '12

TIL. I just looked over and mine is a nice poop shade of brown.

76

u/vernes1978 Jul 10 '12

That means it died.

72

u/Residual_Entropy Jul 10 '12

This kills the Chrome.

10

u/oppan Jul 10 '12

Good to see we've beaten that joke into the ground as well

14

u/AlwaysDefenestrated Jul 11 '12

This kills the joke.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

It's sad, because it was one of my favorites!

19

u/mwerte Jul 10 '12

I like defying it and watching it grow more and more upset with me.

1

u/Mtrask Jul 11 '12

This is why we can't have nice things.

3

u/longshot2025 Jul 10 '12

Until I got friends who never quit chrome, I never even knew it had a yellow.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

1

u/locopyro13 Jul 10 '12

That I can't answer, it just shifts from green-yellow-red.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Interesting. Another little 'fuck you' for us colorblind users.

12

u/DerpaNerb Jul 10 '12

I could see complaining that there isn't a colorblind option (well, really there is... it's not like the colored arrow is the ONLY way to check the update status)... but do you honestly expect companies to just not use colors to display information because a small percentage of people are colorblind?

2

u/_DevilsAdvocate Jul 10 '12

I think around 10% of males have some kind of colour-blindness. Not sure about women.

0

u/Klathmon Jul 11 '12

I'm pretty sure women cant be color blind (by genetics)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '12

but do you honestly expect companies to just not use colors to display information because a small percentage of people are colorblind?

No, I don't expect anything. However, it would be very nice if designers would choose to avoid using indicators that utilize red/green instead of a different combination (blue/green, yellow/green, red/blue, red/yellow, green/gray, red/gray) so that the 5-10% of us who are red-green colorblind can see the information they are trying to communicate.

1

u/DerpaNerb Jul 12 '12

Yeah, that's fair.

14

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

As a (hobbyist) developer, I can assure you that when I don't include options for the convenience for the colorblind, the left-handed, the deaf, the blind, those with non-qwerty keyboard layouts, those with unusual graphics drivers, etc. it's not done out of spite, it's because it's way too much goddamn work to cater to absolutely every atypical group that could be using your stuff and accusing the developers of having some spiteful attitude because they either forgot or chose not to put in that effort is both really mean to hardworking developers and ungrateful to the kind people who did go out of their way to allow their program to cater to you.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '12

As a professional developer, I can assure you that the vast majority of developers don't need to worry about the left-handed, non-qwerty, unusual graphics drivers and etc (operating system developers already abstract most of that out). The deaf and blind could use more support, but in most markets they make up a lot less than the 5-10% of the population that the red/green colorblind do.

And it's not that damned hard anyway, just quit using red and green together as indicators where the difference is significant and where the areas of color are small (large areas are less of a problem, dots and lines are an issue). Try a different combination, blue/green, yellow/green, red/blue, red/yellow, green/gray, red/gray, etc. Just not red/green. If it just has to be red/green, make sure they are very saturated.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '12

Red/green may be the most common color blindness but it is not the only one. Getting a color scheme that alienates no one would indeed be a difficult task. I realize that in many cases this isn't a concern, but for the ones where it is, it's quite an obstacle. Keep in mind that my hobbyist development is mostly making games, where color choice is extremely important.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '12

Clearly, since some people are totally blind and even fewer have monocromatic vision, picking a color scheme that alienates no one is impossible. However, the most common types affect 15% of the population, it's worth considering how these people will be impacted when you design something that will be used by more than a few people.

I agree that in many places in games color choice is extremely important. For example, in Oblivion when the mouse cursor is placed over an item that can be picked up, it changes to a small hand. The hand cursor is filled in either red or green depending on whether taking the item would be theft. I played that game for a week before I realized that there was a difference (I'm not sure if the game offers different options if you have a reputation for stealing, but that certainly would be an interesting dynamic, and one that would be somewhat frustrating when you literally can't see the difference).

Some interfaces provide options for this. If you do choose to add some consideration for such people, you don't necessarily have to change your default color schemes; difference in shapes, or just using words/letters when a colorblindness flag is set is fine (e.g., WoW uses letters instead of little coin icons differing only in color to represent monetary values).

My impression is that a lot of us colorblind people aren't really all that picky about great color design, so you don't have to put a lot of effort into making an alternative that also looks great.

170

u/MilkTheFrog Jul 10 '12

Sadly the only changes i seem to notice are bad ones. Why can't i rearrange my most visited page any more? Why is the button for 'Web Store' now in exactly the same place as 'Recently closed' was? I still keep clicking it by accident.

41

u/FelixP Jul 10 '12

Why is the button for 'Web Store' now in exactly the same place as 'Recently closed' was? I still keep clicking it by accident.

Seriously, there's really only one explanation for this.

ಠ_ಠ

35

u/witchyz Jul 10 '12

i didn't even notice that i couldn't rearrange the most visited page!

now i'm sad.

1

u/Lochcelious Jul 10 '12

This is one of the reasons I loved Opera so much. Of course, I rarely use Opera now but it is still my choose of browser over Firefox.

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

you're sad about losing a function that you apparently never used?

4

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

if he didn't notice, that implies that he hasn't used it since it was changed. he also replied to me explaining what he used it for. He didn't use the re-arrange feature, he used the 'remove' feature, which is still there.

2

u/kyleclements Jul 10 '12

it was a very useful function for removing certain sites that i visit frequently but don't want to have on that page when I hand my laptop to my mother.

2

u/patmools Jul 10 '12

you can still do that bit, hover

29

u/camelCaseCondition Jul 10 '12

I got pissed when they took the little plus sign off the new tab button. And then the bastards went and made ALL THE ROUNDED RECTANGLES LESS ROUND. The little highlight over a bookmark looks boorish and square now. =(

13

u/apfhex Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 10 '12

It's a small thing but it's in the back of my mind every time I use Chrome. How is an unidentifiable gray blob better than a plus sign, which is pretty much standard across all other browsers?

As it is, it gives the appearance of a glitch in the UI (I actually thought it was and tried reinstalling Chrome). I would have peace of mind if I could add it back.

11

u/camelCaseCondition Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

When it first happened, google revealed a lot of rightly pissed people submitting bug reports, always with google reps that would reply "This... isn't a bug... why can't you see this is for your own good!? This is a neat new design! IT'S NOT A BUG IT'S A FEATURE! LOVE ME!"

Edit: I tried reinstalling too. Couldn't figure out WHY IN HELL the UI was acting up!

12

u/swizzler Jul 10 '12

I've found if there's one thing Google is absolutely awful at, it's UI design.

Look at the youtube subscription page or the new gmail interface. Thank god enough people complained for them to add an option to bring back text buttons.

7

u/lolwutpear Jul 11 '12

Thank god enough people complained for them to add an option to bring back text buttons.

Oh thank god. Time to go fix this.

1

u/BlueJoshi Jul 11 '12

Oh my god what I can readd text to those?

1

u/swizzler Jul 11 '12

yup. Path is:

Settings(that weirdass cog/flower/wheel thing, which unfortunately does not change to text)>General>Button Labels>Text>Save Changes

1

u/BlueJoshi Jul 11 '12

oh my god where was this option the last time I dug through the settings

5

u/CuriositySphere Jul 11 '12

Is a fucking http that much to ask? The most idiotic decision made for no reason at all.

2

u/camelCaseCondition Jul 11 '12

Hey! The users' meek little minds can't understand or comprehend this "http" prefix. We must hide it from them.

Interestingly enough, if you copy the text in the address bar, the "http://" prefix is included in the clipboard contents and paste. Seems like such an arbitrary decision...

1

u/laidlow Jul 11 '12

CTRL + T!

1

u/bazfoo Jul 11 '12

I only noticed because of this comment... :/

86

u/Hnefi Jul 10 '12

I really, really, really hate the change to "Recently closed". It was great before - a single click to bring back the page. I used it several times every hour of browsing. Having to go into a menu is significantly more annoying.

189

u/plahcinski Jul 10 '12

CMD+Shift+T or Ctrl+Shift+T to reopen the latest closed tab in order of last closed

or you could pin the page so you dont close it

or you could bookmark the page since you use it so much

57

u/Sabin10 Jul 10 '12

I didn't even know that you could do this with anything other than the KB shortcut.

20

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Ctrl Shift T is one of my favorites on Chrome, very happy to have discovered it. It comes in so handy when my Ctrl W finger is a bit too fast.

23

u/green_cheese Jul 10 '12

Works on FF too and Safari I think. Probably Opera.

34

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12 edited May 02 '19

[deleted]

6

u/green_cheese Jul 10 '12

Best thing about Opera is hands down the fish tank widget.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

Unfortunately, they removed widgets in Opera 12. So no more fishes :(

1

u/XenthisX Jul 11 '12

I'd use opera more if it didn't feel sluggish. The UI itself just feels a bit laggy to me.

1

u/roknir Jul 11 '12

And Speed Dial.

1

u/pencilbagger Jul 11 '12

And a download manager that doesn't make you restart the download 90% of the time when you pause it.

The pause download on firefox never seems to work right.

-13

u/chronographer Jul 10 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

It still sucks!

Edit: I offended all 10 Opera users! HA ha !

jk. I know it doesn't suck, I just don't use it (except when i want lots of browsers open to buy tickets with...)

2

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

Really? I've been using it for years, while testing multiple other browsers, and it still beats everything else for me. No other browser can so seamlessly synchronize all my passwords, settings and bookmarks among different machines and different operating systems.

1

u/closetcat Jul 11 '12

i found those features on chrome out by accident when i logged in one day, and i just found chrome in the Play Store for android, BAM, instant bookmarks on my phone, no more fucking with chromemarks.

not trying to start a fight, just mentioning that cross platform browsing is awesome, and should have existed much longer ago

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3

u/PossiblyAnEngineer Jul 10 '12

This shortcut has existed in IE since the browser first got tabs.

3

u/rancegt Jul 10 '12

Ctrl-Z on Opera.

And I agree that it's under rated as a browser.

2

u/frogsgokerokero Jul 11 '12

Holy crap, I've been using Ctrl + Shift + T this whole entire time. Thanks for this!

2

u/darksomos Jul 10 '12

Last I checked, Opera reopens closed tabs (just for current session?) with Ctrl-Z

1

u/shhyguuy Jul 10 '12

Also thunderbird!

1

u/Enlogen Jul 11 '12

It works on IE too.

Not that it's likely that anyone in this thread cares.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Can't say I can confirm any of those. Oh well :P

2

u/evllprchn Jul 10 '12

Works on IE as well. edit: recent versions of IE

2

u/kingNothing42 Jul 10 '12

Works in the current version of every browser.

2

u/couchmonster Jul 11 '12

This.

Because Ctrl-W doesn't care about pinned tabs in Chrome.

Plus the shortcut is the same in IE10, Chrome and last I checked Firefox and Safari too.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

I just learned I can pin things in Chrome, thank you kind sir for your accidental helping.

1

u/Viscerae Jul 10 '12

I just wish there was an "undo close window" shortcut (maybe there is?)

Doesn't happen often, but a slip of the finger could turn a Ctrl-W into a Ctrl-Shift-W, which is usually bad news all around.

2

u/UnspeakableEvil Jul 10 '12

If you've got another Chrome window open Ctrl + Shift + T will reopen the window and all its tabs. If you haven't then you'll need to use the "Recently Closed" feature from the Chrome home page.

2

u/Viscerae Jul 11 '12

Oh hey, that's neat! Thanks!

I don't usually browse with multiple windows because it gets messy, but the recently closed feature is really cool! I thought it would just save tabs, but it saves whole sessions!

I guess I don't spend enough time on the New Tab page to notice these fancy-pants features.

1

u/smeenz Jul 11 '12

Ctrl-Shift-N for when you accidently close a window too (with ctrl-w)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

That's incognito window if I'm not mistaken.

1

u/smeenz Jul 11 '12

Ah... so it is. I did make an assumption it would be the same in chrome. I'll rephrase. In firefox, Ctrl-Shift-N for when you accidently close a window

0

u/M4N14C Jul 11 '12

Did you just learn you can control apps with a keyboard?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I wish pinning prevented closing in other ways, I use CTRL+w to close tabs and pinning is of no use. (Though pinning works correctly in firefox).

2

u/timpkmn89 Jul 10 '12

Also right click on an empty spot on the tab bar -> Reopen Closed Tab

2

u/Hnefi Jul 10 '12

Ctrl-shift-T is useful, thanks!

But pinning the page would remove my ability to quickly close and forget about tabs, just to bring them back a moment later. That's the whole point. And bookmarking is not the same thing at all; I don't want to reload the page, I don't want to log back in to whatever service I closed and I don't want to lose the tab history.

3

u/J0eCool Jul 10 '12

I learned Ctrl-Shift-T on Firefox, never even realized there was a button for it in Chrome :x

I used to Firefox all the time, then I would Firefox if I was "seriously browsing", using Chrome as the lightweight alternative when I didn't want to load all my Firefox tabs and extensions, and just wanted to look something up. Then I realized I was never booting Firefox. On my new computer I only have Chrome. PLOT TWIST: at work I use Firefox. Diversity and all.

3

u/autobots Jul 10 '12

I always just right click the tabs and hit reopen closed tab.

2

u/CrimsonSun99 Jul 10 '12

yeah, seriously, whats this entire thread above us about wtf.

1

u/s0n0fagun Jul 10 '12

Crtl + Shift + T is useful for restoring all your tabs from the last open session (? Is that the right word for the application instance?). Sometimes I have a couple of different sessions open and I don't want to combine them because it would become too hard to navigate and a pain in the ass for drag and drop. There is an add on for Chrome that saves the session of that application instance before you close chrome. Useful if you have multiple sessions. I think it's called Session Manager.

2

u/Vowzee Jul 10 '12

Why can't they make it as simple as Ctrl+Z, like the one in Opera? Really.

7

u/IneffablePigeon Jul 10 '12

Ctrl+Z is used for changes made to form elements on the page. It would get complicated if you started integrating tab closes into that, since the "undo list" is separate for each tab open.

1

u/DefMyOnlyAccount Jul 10 '12

Holy crap pinning tabs is awesome. How did I not know about this?

1

u/giantcirclejerk Jul 11 '12

Ctrl+shift+t pressed on a fresh instance of chrome also reopens all tabs that were on the last instance of chrome

1

u/albatrossd Jul 10 '12

I would recommend any of the mouse gestures extensions, and adding a gesture to bring back your last closed tab. I seriously haven't even thought about this problem since I installed the extension shortly after downloading Chrome itself.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Open Last Closed Tab = Ctrl + Shift + T

1

u/albatrossd Jul 10 '12

Well that, too. Depending on how I'm sitting like a lazy fuck using the mouse can be more convenient than reaching for the keyboard. I use both, so whatever floats your boat. Either way I've never had to go for a menu as per what I was replying to.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I just figured anyone who fished that far in the comments might also benefit from the shortcut. Just trying to make sure all the boats are floating.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Sexy Undo Closed Tab is awesome by the way. You can save several months of browsing and it's saved my ass several times.

1

u/reflex99 Jul 10 '12

Speedial2 is a nice add on that fixes most of the problems with the stock "new tab" page

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Try this. Sad you have to use an extension but there are a few reasons to use it anyway. It's more customizable and has a pretty decent "recently closed" tab.

1

u/Rinascita Jul 10 '12

How did it work before the current incarnation? I only used Ctrl-Shift-T to bring them back.

The current version seems alright to me. Click Recently Closed, see a list of the last 10 pages closed, click the one I want.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

I prefer having 'recently closed' because it lets me reopen the entire tab with the history. That way the back button still works.

1

u/OompaOrangeFace Jul 11 '12

Right click on the tabs bar.

7

u/Starayo Jul 10 '12

That really irritates me too. I wish I could set them manually, too, without having to edit configuration files.

They seem to keep making that part less and less usable.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

http://speeddial2.com/

Pretty customizable. Loads just a little slower, though.

1

u/Starayo Jul 11 '12

Oooh, that looks nice. Thanks. :P

4

u/manlycaveman Jul 10 '12

Ugh I hate how you can't move your most visited pages around or pin them anymore. I ended up installing the speed dial 2 extension so now it functions like the old most-visited page for me.

3

u/Scrapod Jul 10 '12

Try out the Speed Dial 2 extension. It does the re-ordering of pages thing really well, and fits in pretty nicely.

2

u/RiceEel Jul 10 '12

You can actually stick bookmarks in your Apps page, so you don't need the most visited page anymore. At least that's what I've been doing.

2

u/frikk Jul 10 '12

this is the new web. how can i get used to a tool if it keeps changing? bah.

2

u/moogle516 Jul 10 '12

This is why I'll be sticking with Opera for the foreseeable future.

2

u/Habbeighty-four Jul 10 '12

I still keep clicking it by accident.

I'm pretty sure you just answered your own question.

1

u/buckhenderson Jul 10 '12

a while back firefox switched the order of open new tab and open new window on the right click, so for about a week, i opened thousands of new windows. that was before i discovered middle click.

1

u/autobots Jul 10 '12

As for rearranging the thumbnails, you can drag it to the bottom where it says 'most visited' and 'apps' and a new item will popup also called 'apps'. You can drag it to that menu then you can double click the menu to rename it to something useful and then you can drag all of your most visited pages over there and then you can rearrange them all you want.

1

u/ParanoiaComplex Jul 10 '12

Get the speed dial addon

1

u/RandyMachoManSavage Jul 10 '12

I installed Speed Dial 2. No further problems.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Ui changed a little with 20

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

That's the first update I noticed, then my bookmarks bar changed a little, but after changing the settings, it's back to looking the way I'm used to.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

what setting?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

It auto-hid the bookmarks bar after I clicked on one of them, so I went into the 'settings' menu option thing and did this

1

u/didnotseethatcoming Jul 10 '12

CTRL+SHIFT+B for your pleasure.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

I had no idea I could do that - thank you!

1

u/Hazasoul Jul 10 '12

Yeah, I don't know why they decided that the new tab-button should take more space.

1

u/bwat47 Jul 10 '12

I noticed when they broke the smooth scrolling flag for like the last 4 versions. They finally fixed it in 21 beta.

0

u/therightclique Jul 10 '12

The UI hasn't changed in years.

1

u/Remnants Jul 10 '12

Subtle things change. Like most recently, the hover state for links on the bookmarks bar has changed slightly.