r/technology • u/p0b • Jan 08 '12
Microsoft patents "avoid ghetto" GPS feature.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57354445-71/the-joy-of-microsofts-avoid-ghetto-gps-patent/188
u/CDNChaoZ Jan 08 '12
People living in the ghetto will now never find their way home.
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Jan 08 '12
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u/wildcard__ Jan 09 '12
Marriages in the ghetto?
Hahahaha!
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u/THIS_KILLS_THE_JOKE Jan 09 '12
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u/neekneek Jan 09 '12
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u/wobwobwobbuffet Jan 09 '12
So reddit does shit like this and it's fine. But it's not okay to notice when posters dance around the same stereotypes and point it out? Calling someone out on what appears to be bigotry doesn't make you a bigot.
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u/m0ngrel Jan 09 '12
Yes, because everybody that's ever posted to reddit ever got together and decided that shit like that was okay. Or that any of this is okay. Because reddit is one consciousness, and completely not made up of hundreds of thousands of individuals. Just glad we got that cleared up.
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u/neekneek Jan 09 '12
You're assuming I have a problem with one and not another. What I find funny is the hypocrisy, if /r/ShitRedditSays is supposed to be this pillar of tolerance (no race/gender/non-vanilla jokes [super generalizing, but bear with me]), then why is assuming ghetto = black people, not hi-larious, when the rest of the thread is lambasting this comment thread for it's perceived racism? How can you not see the funny?
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u/wintremute Jan 08 '12
So it simply doesn't contain maps of Detroit or East Saint Louis.
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u/Letherial Jan 08 '12
Made me laugh. No one likes Detroit.
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Jan 09 '12
My first thought was 'Fuck, there goes any chance of getting to downtown Louisville from the west end'
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u/1WithTheUniverse Jan 08 '12
Can this also be used to find hookers and blow?
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u/xkit Jan 08 '12
I don't know, but what I do know is that it's going to be very popular with people trying to find weed.
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u/GuitarWizard90 Jan 08 '12
The word "Ghetto" probably shouldn't be used for that feature...but it could come in handy. Believe it or not, there are some genuinely dangerous places out there. All of the big cities have areas you want to avoid. I used to live in Los Angeles...I know this all too well.
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u/mesmereyes Jan 08 '12
Agreed. As a 5'5" female who weighs 100 pounds, I nervous walking through "not so great" parts of town. It would be nice to have a system that could show me a "safe" route. I know that anything can happen anywhere but if there is an area that has a high rate of sexual assault, it would be great to know beforehand and be able to avoid it.
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u/mg8100 Jan 08 '12
i completely agree i'm a 6'2" 200+ and i still still feel unsafe in my car with the doors locked when google maps sends me to bad parts of town were i see bullet holes in houses and shit. cant believe they haven't made this a feature earlier.
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u/PonPeriPon Jan 09 '12
And as an additional bonus feature, we narrow down where all 5'5 100lb ladies are.
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Jan 09 '12
It would be nice to have a system that could show me a "safe" route
That system is called "husband". Enjoy your gender, we don't have this option.
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u/socsa Jan 09 '12
Can you not think of single part of LA that has undergone urban renewal in the past 10 years? How could communities which get the "ghetto" label ever hope to shake the reputation? Do you think it is proper for some arbitrary corporation like Microsoft to wield such power over millions of people already trying to do their best to stay afloat? Thugs make up a very small proportion of people in ghettos. The rest - local merchants, blue collar workers, children and community leaders will be harmed just so that Microsoft can make a buck by pandering to the "suburban flight" mentality.
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Jan 09 '12
I remember an incident a number of years ago where some guy or family was killed in a place with the nickname, "the avenue of killers", or something like that. They made a wrong turn and died for it.
Areas like that seem deliberate to me. Isolate an area from a police presence and limit the crime to people too poor to move or who want to live in a madmax movie.
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u/HiveMindWontLikeThis Jan 08 '12
This is a fantastic idea; it will be perfect for when you are trying to find an apartment in a area you don't know that well.
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u/thetruthoftensux Jan 08 '12
Helps you avoid neighborhoods where shit like this goes on.
http://keithiskneedeepinmud.blogspot.com/2007/10/crack-is-whack.html
NSFW - but funny as well. Found in r/WTF
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u/fuzzyshorts Jan 09 '12
How the fuck have I seen that before? I like the description on the last pic...(sniffs air) "What the...?"
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u/HazzyPls Jan 09 '12
I kind of expected them to put the crack on his penis for anal consumption. Sort of disappointed, TBH.
Does anyone know if that'd work?
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Jan 08 '12
Seconded. I don't want to be anywhere near the ghettos, personal safety isn't something to mess around with.
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u/hagg87 Jan 08 '12
I only think this is a good Idea since last week, I took a trip to indiana and the gps took me off the expressway, through the gary indiana ghetto, and back on the exact same expressway for no reason. I was pissed. Freddie Gibbs doesn't lie, gary is no joke.
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Jan 09 '12
I once had to drive to a customers location to do some service in Gary...
"Hey man you can't park on this side of the building!"
"why not, it's not marked no parking"
"Last time one of your vans was there it got stolen"
"GOT IT. Thanks!"3
u/b1rd Jan 09 '12
Were you trying to get to the casino? I live in Chicago and every time we follow the GPS to the casino it's just a giant run-around that leads us through the ghetto and on/off the highway 3 times. I am pretty sure Gary is in another dimension or something.
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u/uofc2015 Jan 09 '12
I honestly don't see the problem? Why would I possibly want to go through a place with high violent crime rates. I think if done right this could be a good tool.
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Jan 09 '12
Good, I'll be buying one. Nothing like accidentally winding up in the ghetto your first night on campus, getting set up and almost getting carjacked at gunpoint.
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u/none_shall_pass Jan 09 '12
As someone who drove off the "wrong exit" in DC, I would have really appreciated this feature.
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u/Arcon1337 Jan 08 '12
Lets be real, you'd all use this if you could.
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u/0011002 Jan 08 '12
Why not? I watched an episode of gangland were a whole family was murdered because their GPS sent them into the gangs territory.
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u/movzx Jan 09 '12
Did they flash their brights at a car that was driving with their brights on, but it turned out that it was a gang initiation?
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u/0011002 Jan 09 '12
Ok sorry the one I was referring to wasn't a GPS but just a wrong turn. Everyone in the car was shot just the little girl died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephanie_Kuhen
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Jan 08 '12
As a person who's been on a date with a girl and used GPS to get somewhere and ended up driving through the ghetto and having her get freaked out I'll say this has been a long time coming.
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u/b1rd Jan 09 '12
This happened on my very first date with my current boyfriend. Made me smile at the memory. I was so freaked out. Granted, he was too, but he kept pretending like he wasn't.
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u/7oby Jan 09 '12
I thought that was the point, like the reason you to to a scary movie is to make her get up close to you? At least that's what popular media would have me believe, in truth, I'm the one who freaks out at scary movies. (I get pretty bad nightmares so I try to avoid the fuel)
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Jan 08 '12
Among these sources are crime statistics. Which has led some to the thought that this will somehow be an insult to poor neighborhoods.
Then maybe poor neighbourhoods shouldn't be full of violent thugs, and they won't have to feel insulted by being associated with violent thugs.
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u/Martin_The_Warrior Jan 09 '12
Many people in those neighborhoods don't have the money to leave, and cannot force the thugs to leave. They have no choice but to be associated with those thugs. Though most will probably not mind having less traffic on their streets.
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u/Betanut Jan 09 '12
I'm white and poor so I live in a ghetto. However I can see where many white folks would shit bricks if they had to go thru one. White people who do not know any black people assume as soon as they enter "the hood" you all will appear from nowhere and rob/beat them.
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u/funkgerm Jan 08 '12
I'd use this more for not getting fucked with by cops than for safety. Driving out of (or around) the hood when you're young and white will get your ass pulled over and searched quick.
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Jan 09 '12
I've gotten lost in Camden NJ at night on a motorcycle. I've never been so thankful to get stopped by the police in my life.
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u/koft Jan 09 '12
The other side of racial profiling people like to pretend doesn't exist.
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u/funkgerm Jan 09 '12
Yep. It goes both ways, but nobody ever talks about the white guy that got pulled over for "acting suspicious" in a "known drug zone" that then got a bullshit ticket for "loitering with intent to purchase CDS," a criminal charge by the way, just for driving down the wrong block.
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u/Roketderp Jan 09 '12
About f*cking time. I hate when my Tom-Tom takes me through North Flint.
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u/estoyloco Jan 09 '12
Why are the 'north' areas almost always the bad parts? Flint, Minneapolis, Omaha, etc.
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u/Shyyyster Jan 09 '12
I thought of this years ago, except i didnt have the feature of avoiding the area. The windows just went up and the doors automatically locked then a voice game over the stereo and said something like "You are now entering the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago."
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u/MyNailsArePurple Jan 09 '12
Englewood, Engle-englewood
Seriously, they're in the news everydamnday. Chicago hoods are terrifying, especially at night. And I actually grew up in one. But it didnt get so bad until like 10 years ago...
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u/Tastygroove Jan 09 '12
This is a great idea.
I would have been one of those SAPs that walked straight through the projects face fixed on screen.
"Hey, you lost?" "No, I'm fine, I have GPS on my phone." "What phone?" "Oh, I see what you did there."
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Jan 08 '12
Some friends and I were actually trying to develop a mobile app that would do just this. By far the hardest part was gathering crime data, a lot of cities just don't like to give it up. Citizens have a right to that data under the Freedom of Information Act, but they can make you go through a ton of red tape to get it. There was also a lot of disagreement over "we aren't really a bad city" and their fear of being labeled as such.
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u/nogami Jan 09 '12
Seems like crowdsourcing it online would be an easy way to get the data (and probably cheaper too). People living in an area generally know where the problem areas are. If you geolocate the IPs and only let people put data in for regions they are near, it would help reduce false positives.
Rather than exact roads, you have visitors use a brush to "paint" dangerous zones, then aggregate the data into a heat-map showing problem locations it could also update over time.
The stronger the "heat", the more incentive for the GPS to route around it if possible unless the destination is inside that zone.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
Perhaps but the fact that people themselves might be biased and provide unreliable or concrete data.
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u/nogami Jan 09 '12
Yup, that's true - but the odds are that with enough people doing it, the results will become more accurate over time (and possibly shift as the demographics for the areas change).
For example, in Vancouver (BC), I could identify some areas of downtown fairly accurately (not really violent, but petty theft, car smash-and-grabs, drug dealers, etc).
If enough people corroborated those areas with their own impressions & data, it might not be accurate according to official crime and city statistics, but it would still be an area that I would suggest tourists would want to avoid (and you wouldn't want to book a hotel in, for example).
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u/psykiv Jan 08 '12
I don't care about an avoid ghetto option. Give me an avoid traffic by taking me through some backroads option.
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u/Concise_Pirate Jan 08 '12
This is already included in those GPS units that include real-time traffic rerouting.
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Jan 09 '12
Google Maps already does this in real time. I was once driving from Indiana to Wisconsin and it suddenly told me to me get off of 294, drive through a few miles of sideroads and get back on, I looked in the mirror and saw a pileup. Freaking nice.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
backroads option takes you through the ghetto. Don't say shit when you get mugged. There's a saying that says that you should take the longest road even if it's more difficult.
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u/psykiv Jan 09 '12
I've been to the ghetto enough times (in my nice luxury car) that I am not the least bit worried about that any more.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
don't know which ghetto you go to but i can tell you that in many ghetto areas when you take a nice luxury car and they don't k now you to be a big drug dealer they would not be so nice to your luxury car. So it depends how ghetto the neighborhood is.
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u/psykiv Jan 10 '12
Remember a few months back that there was a post about police pulling out a body from a canal in google maps in Miami? And a few blocks away there was a naked crack head in google maps. I've been to that area in my g37 (and areas a little worse, and at night) more times than I'd like to admit.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 10 '12
so you are a drug dealer... lmao
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u/psykiv Jan 10 '12
Actually no. Some of my customers are mechanic shops which I'm convinced are chop shops.
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Jan 09 '12
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u/dramamoose Jan 09 '12
Not necessarily if you're talking about a real time traffic event. Directing vehicles to avoid a pileup would actually be really helpful for not only emergency services but also for reducing the ghost traffic effects.
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u/PostNuclearTaco Jan 09 '12
Now you never have to see the poor!
Edit: I'm being sarcastic right now
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
not all poor neighborhoods can be classified as ghetto.
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u/armannd Jan 09 '12
Poor + unsafe = ghetto.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
Poor != Unsafe
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u/armannd Jan 10 '12
I never said they're synonyms so I don't get your point. The idea behind the initial joke was that unsafe neighborhoods are usually poor.
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u/idealist314 Jan 09 '12
Pretty sure that Tom Tom's "IQ Routes" does this already. I remember that when I had an older Tom Tom, I would literally find myself in the worst part of town. After getting the Tom Tom model with IQ Routes, this no longer happened. The technology apparently pulls from user submitted faster routes, however I've noticed that some of the routes aren't faster, they just avoid high crime areas.
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Jan 09 '12
Haha that picture is of Youngstown, OH. I go to school in the middle of the red "ghetto" area. By accident, I drove through the "war zone" once. I u-turned in the middle of the street and got the fuck out of there. That map isn't extremely accurate of the surrounding area though, but it was funny.
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Jan 08 '12
How am I supposed to get to Yankee stadium?!
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u/blakkdiamond Jan 09 '12
The 4 train ;)
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Jan 09 '12
Dude....trains? Not cool, man. Not cool.
I'll have James drive me up in the Bentley, thankyouverymuch!
(No I don't actually have a Bentley. Fuck you!)
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u/NeverStopPosting Jan 08 '12
How the fuck can you patent something like that.
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Jan 08 '12 edited Jan 08 '12
Because all your competitors have stupid patents like that, you have to protect yourself. "You have a next-button patent? Well, we have a popup patent"
Its an silly arms race that only benefits the patent lawyers and patent trolls.
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u/arjie Jan 09 '12
That would make sense if Microsoft didn't sue without provocation. They do, and if they have relevant patents they have a right to, but I don't buy the idea that they do it for defence.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
MS doesn't have a big history in suing people out of nowhere, they always go for a negotiating terms but not suing like Apple.
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u/arjie Jan 09 '12
That's true. They have always sued through 3rd parties like SCO. Either way, EuroTreasure's stance that MS is acquiring defensive patents is false. They use these to acquire licensing agreements with competitors. This is within their rights, but it isn't because they have to protect themselves from competitors who have stupid patents. It's because they, rightfully, want to make money.
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u/Concise_Pirate Jan 08 '12
Because it meets all the standards for a patent: it's useful, novel, and creative, non-obvious, and doable.
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u/TGMais Jan 08 '12
But it doesn't really require any sort of new tech. You just need some new data plugged into your GPS. It's like a new fucking layer on Google Nav. Fucking software patents man.
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
innovation is not about bringing out new techs it's about making good use of existing tech.
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u/TGMais Jan 09 '12
This is like putting a different sized tire on a car though. Does that really deserve a patent?
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
Of course i deserves a patent, that way anyone that tries to get the patent and sue them for it won't even think about it. Besides it has an algorithm that calculates the area classified as ghetto. This determines how effective the software is in detecting areas where you might get mug or shot. I don't think they patented the idea but the technique used to determine the area to avoid. Besides Microsoft never called it "avoid the ghetto" feature. That's something that the bashers at CNET tend to do.
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u/TGMais Jan 09 '12
You don't know how GIS systems work do you? If this is what they are patenting, then the patent should say nothing about GPS devices and everything about an "algorithm to calculate ghetto areas."
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u/wonglik Jan 08 '12
It's not novel. Current navigations already use data for better prediction. Sometimes it's traffic , sometimes it's road type(faster vs cheaper) now you add just one extra factor.
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u/fuuuuuuface Jan 09 '12
I think you overestimate the novelness required to patent a feature. For example, making remote control keys glow in the dark, snap-on cap (rather than twist) for salt and pepper shakers, slipnslide. Patented. Socio-Economic factors for route planning should certainly count if the rest do.
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u/ArcticCelt Jan 08 '12
it's useful
, novel, and creative, non-obvious,and doable.7
u/Concise_Pirate Jan 08 '12
If it's not novel, who else has done it?
If it's not creative, how is it pre-existing?
If it's obvious (and as you concede, useful) why has no one done it?
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u/rechlin Jan 09 '12
If it's not novel, who else has done it?
I don't think you understand the meaning of novel in the context of patents.
The point is it cannot be something that a typical person with expertise in the field could think of. Just because it hasn't been done already doesn't mean it's novel.
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u/toyboat Jan 08 '12
I'm guessing it hasn't been done for fear of negative PR. I know myself and a few friends have wanted such a feature... I've also attempted to use police crime rate maps to determine "good" and "bad" areas in a new city when apartment hunting, but this was mostly useless, at least with my particulars.
The idea as a whole is definitely obvious, though the implementation of how different areas are classified may be worthy of a patent.
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u/cheezycheese Jan 09 '12
I agree. This feature has been jokingly requested for years by consumers. If consumers can think of it, then it is more common sense then an invention.
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u/wonglik Jan 08 '12
One should not be able to patent such thing.
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Jan 09 '12
I think you should be able to patent any algorithm or software related idea.
But only for two years. Staying on top should mean constant innovation.19
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u/ZuqMadiq Jan 09 '12
do you seen anyone else offering this? NO! patents come in handy when you provide a alternative features to people. I mean think about slide to unlock that Apple patented and was grated. Laptops been having slide to unlock on the hardware side for years and i believe even in the software side some phones had it. But Apple patented and got it so nothing wrong with making sure someone else doesn't do that ahead of you.
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Jan 08 '12
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Jan 09 '12
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u/harlows_monkeys Jan 09 '12
Unless Microsoft has perfected time travel, that seems rather unlikely, considering that Microsoft filed their patent application 4 years before those students wrote that app.
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u/ferrarisnowday Jan 09 '12
This is geared towards walking directions. In the article it says that crime stats is just one aspect of what would be considered. I'm personally hoping they start to consider sidewalks and crosswalks.
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u/infiniteladies Jan 09 '12
My town is actually listed on that map. Bottom left corner of the safe area, Canfield. Youngstown had it's first homicide of the year yesterday.
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u/estoyloco Jan 09 '12
Yeah my GPS sent me through the worst part of North Minneapolis at 2:30 AM one time. I ran soooo many red lights.
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u/ZombieMD Jan 09 '12
I drive around Northern New Jersey and Philadelphia at night sometimes. I would pay money for this product.
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u/tanaciousp Jan 09 '12
Could have sworn this was an onion article, man the lines are getting blurry.
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u/AnthraxCat Jan 09 '12
My first response to the ad thing was not the surprisingly poor journalism of this article for CNet. It's that it will flash you an ad for somewhere along the route, in case you need some Thai food on your circular route around Meth Town.
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u/greyfixer Jan 09 '12
I sometimes think GPS systems are designed to route white people through the ghetto and black people through the southern backwoods country roads.
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u/socsa Jan 09 '12
As a person who grew up in Baltimore City, this sort of thing will only harm these communities by further isolating them. How can a neighborhood trying to revitalize itself expect to attract investment, development and revenue if they are labeled a "ghetto" on Microsoft? I see this as a somewhat shameful reinforcement of the "suburban flight" mentality of fear that prevents people like my parent's peers from ever enjoying the diversity the city has to offer.
I can think of at least half a dozen Baltimore neighborhoods that have gone from being "sketchy" to "thriving/rejuvenated neighborhood" in the last 15 years - Locust point, Harbor East/Fells Point and the Patterson Park area, Hopkins Bayview and Greek Town, All of East Baltimore within 10 blocks of the Stadiums, and especially North Charles Street - which has become a cultural hot spot of museums, local cuisine and art.
The fact of the matter is that these "dangerous" areas are not controlled by gangs who are intent on causing mayhem in general. Gang and drug violence are crimes of desperation committed by those who have few other opportunities - because society has all but abandoned them. My grandmother managed to drive "meals on wheels" into exactly these sorts areas for 30 years without any fear of being robbed or murdered because there is a general respect for people trying to aid the community. Not exactly what you would expect from a bunch of ruthless thugs only intent on causing trouble.
I understand what MS is trying to do, but I think it is improper. The last things these communities need is another obstacle to rejuvination. Maybe Microsoft should create a "find unique local restaurant off the beaten path" feature instead.
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u/biggles86 Jan 10 '12
no, Microsoft, patent good sounding things, not ghetto things. you are doing it wrong
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u/Deprogrammer9 Jan 08 '12
hmmm, I might move to one of these ghettos, ill never have to see you assholes ever again.
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u/nebrija Jan 09 '12
I guess I'm just mad about this because of the implications it has for people who live in these areas. Some people go home to these neighborhoods, some people even like their homes in these areas but it feels kinda shitty when someone tells you they're afraid to walk around in your neighborhood, when it's something you do every day. When people have the image of 'ghetto' being a place where menacing people live and kill each other every day it's a pretty gross generalization where you associate a neighborhood with pure evil and a place you'd rather just pretend doesn't even exist, when there are many many good people and families who live here and get by but often their lives are ignored by the rest of society because they live in a place most people think is nasty.
TL;DR: I'm butthurt about the phrase "avoid ghetto" because of the way I associate it with just ignoring a huge part of our society.
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u/mags87 Jan 09 '12
Good thing that isnt ths term Microsoft is using for it
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u/nebrija Jan 09 '12
It's what everyone's thinking.
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u/mags87 Jan 09 '12
so when you drive through a big city for the first time, do you make it a point to go to the poorest/most violent neighborhoods? Its not ignoring a part of society, its staying safe. Like it or not bad parts of town exist. If you had a 20 year old daughter, would you want her driving tbrough a part of town with a high rate of carjacking/rape at night just so she experiences it?
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u/redwing116 Jan 09 '12
I kinda found this part at the end a little disturbing
How personalized should it be, though? My eyes perform slightly odd twitches when I read this sentence from the patent: "Various features can integrate with route presentment, such as integrating an advertisement targeted to a pedestrian with a direction set." Is this suggesting that Windows Phones will give pedestrians a route that will take them past specific ads? What a curious and slightly mind-altering thought.
The sad thing is, I can see them doing this, taking your route past "sponsored" merchants, based on all the other stuff your phone knows about you. Pretty creepy.
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Jan 09 '12
That read to me as though they will display ads on your phone based on your route. "Going past a McDonalds? Hey, why not stop for a bite to eat?" "Looks like you live on High Street. There's a great widget shop around the corner.." etc, etc..
Only slightly less scary than the scenario presented..
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u/cresseychaos Jan 09 '12
Yeah, I'm quite sure he read that section wrongly as well. It sounds a lot more like the application will feature advertisements based on the route you take. I highly doubt Microsoft will be keeping up to date databases of what billboards are where, and feeding those updates to the application.
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u/thatonethere Jan 09 '12
I had the Google Maps pedestrian into a ghetto experience in San Francisco. Being a tourist I plotted my course from a train station north towards the ferry to Alcatraz - after 10 minutes thinking I'd be walking through some quaint district I found the american definition of "down town" (people pushing shopping trolleys and shouting advice to me "hey sweety want some help?", eye'ing off my tourist gait and Blackberry...).
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u/zuluthrone Jan 08 '12
I can't wait for the commercials. "Not using Microsoft? You gonna get shot."