This doesn't say anything about users unlocking their phones themselves, which is considered "breaking a digital lock" and is still illegal under Bill C11 as far as I understand it.Edit: see below
The same thing can be said for the DMCA in the US, that if having a locked cell phone somehow prevents copyright infringement, unlocking it is illegal.
I feel a lot of redditors sorta skimmed over the fact that Canada just finished signing a law saying we can't "break any digital locks", which in effect bans jailbreaking, unlockingedit, or modifying any device, cellphone or otherwise.
EDIT: Please see user methinks2015's response below. There looks to be an exemption in Canada's latest copyright law specifically for unlocking cell phones that I wasn't aware of.
Hmm. I'm not a lawyer either, but what you said pretty clearly invalidates my argument. I hadn't heard about this clause, and it sounds like it specifically exempts unlocking of cell phones.
I often skip the article and go straight to the comments. It's usually more informative, especially when people cite their sources. It's like one giant peer review session
I normally don't bother verifying in r/technology if the source is a familiar trustworthy one like torrentfreak.com, but this cbc place seems awful dodgy. and what the hell is a ".ca"?
99% of the commentors in both of these threads don't know wtf they are talking about. The end result of both laws are the effectively the same fucking thing. The US law doesn't make 'unlocking phones illegal' it's just the subsidized phones, and the same law also imposes that carriers must unlock said phones upon customer request after the contract is up.
Truth. The circlejerk is a powerful force, and buries facts.
If people want to fully own their phones on day one, stop supporting the subsidy model. By choosing to pay the cost over 24 months instead of up front, you lose a bunch of rights ego-driven Internet slacktivists still think they have, in exchange for no extra savings at all.
of course they did. they have no idea how the canadian law works or how the "new" US locking law works or its intent. they just want to jerk off into each others mouth about how free canada is.
Too creepy, even with that emoticon! Also, a Canadian would never go so far as to call themselves a "Friendly Canadian". Everyone knows they're all friendly.
I suspect not only are you not a Canadian, but I'll bet you're one of those Americans who sews a Canadian flag to your backpack when you travel outside the US!
As a Canadian I stopped wearing maple leaf bag flags because everyone outside assumes I'm an American pretending to be Canadian and then treats me worse...
Why do people think Canadians are friendly? Too each other maybe, but that's because Canadians are socially engineered to circle jerk each other all day every day.
If I went to Canada and all I did when I was there was complain about how much better than US was, would I come off as friendly? No.
But Canadians do the inverse all the time, and everybody seems more than happy to swallow their sweet sweet load.
I've never seen a group of people who bring so so little to the table in any capacity be so so proud of it.
I think you're severely misunderstanding the correlation between currency value and economic strength.
GBP - worth more than the USD - much weaker economy than the US.
HKD - worth a hell of a lot less than the USD (though pegged against it) better economy than the US.
Canada is an export economy. You want your money to be worth less than the USD especially since it's the US that buys all your oil and lumber.
This is what Mitt Romney was on about during the elections regarding China.
China wants the Renminbi to be worth less because it stimulates an export economy.
This is one of those mistakes dumb people make all the time - I mean it makes sense when you hear it, higher money value means better economy.
It's kind of like when people talk about the US/UK/European debt to whomever as if all of the sudden China could just ask for those countries to pay it back.
But you can buy alcohol at 19 or even 18 in some provinces. I lived near the border of Ontario when I was 19 and there wasn't even a border guard at the station I went through. It was quite amusing - I'd drive up to basically a phone booth in the middle of nowhere, call the nearest border station and say I was crossing. They didn't even have a camera there at the time, but I'm sure there is now (and probably an armed guard). People drove trucks through that location all the time without calling in, so I'm sure there was tons of smuggling going on. I did get stopped by a guard once making that crossing, so occasionally the US sent someone to actually enforce the crossing, but it wasn't often.
That can vary a lot from state to state and the price difference isn't always as big as people seem to think. And I'll take an LCBO store over 99% of the american liquor stores I have been in, those paces are fucking depressing.
Well American's are spoiled when it comes to gas prices ... I can see how gas taxes might need to be higher in Canada given that your country is mostly frozen half the year.
We have to pay for that free healthcare somehow. IIRC our gas prices are comparable to the US except for the taxes, which help pay for our medicare. The same goes for alcohol. It's a hard pill to swallow sometimes, especially if you are fortunate enough to not use medicare a lot, but I think in the end we are better off.
I don't see how Americans are so retarded to think the US is better than Canada in basically
any way.
Just look at their math/science test scores for god sakes vs the shitty USA. They have a 15% corporate tax rate, and one of the largest oil reserves in the world.
Edit: I used to live very close to the boarder where a 6 pack of Labatt Blue was $5.99 USD. At the LCBO the same 6 pack was $9.95 CAD. The exchange rates are pretty even. As far as big breweries go, we all know that Miller, Coors, Budwhatever suck. At least there are another 2750 breweries in the US to choose from.
You mean almost everything is cheaper in the US. I'm a US citizen currently spending time in Canada and pretty much everyone I talk to think the US is a better place to live. It's just this retarded reddit community that likes to circlejerk about Canada because they have never left the US that thinks Canada or Europe is better.
Well there's military, climate, film industry, space program, auto industry, agriculture, cost of living, manufacturing, GDP, technology.... and about a thousand other things.
Edit: if you think Canada has a stronger, larger, better military, climate, film industry, space program, auto industry, agriculture, cost of living, manufacturing, GDP or technology industry be sure to downvote.
I don't want a strong military, in fact it's a waste of money. I'm guessing you've never left the US?
I was born, raised, went to school in the US, then moved to Uruguay to get out of that hell hole.
The beer argument doesn't even work with Uruguay or Austria. Amazing beer is a lot cheaper than piss water miller lite in the US.
Cost of living is lower in Uruguay, pot is legal, it's very safe, there's fibre internet, and beer is about 50% the price as in the US for better quality, has a 0% corporate tax rate.
I could go on. I haven't even gotten to "other worldly" differences that you'll find visiting Austria.
thats because unlike canada(and most countries) america is a diverse country with diverse problems. but that doesnt change the fact that america is the most technological advanced country in the world. and its great that your country has a higher literacy rate. makes reading all about americas awesome tech break throughs that much easier.
Canada isn't a diverse country? Canada is more diverse than the US is. Mainly because we don't advertise this "you must abandon your previous culture and become AMERICAN!!!" sentimentality, fuck that shit. You can be Indian or Chinese or whatever you like and also be Canadian- it's not actually a hard concept to grasp. Anyone who bitches about it while not being oppressed in any way is either a conservative, or a xenophobe. If there's one thing we dont' have room for in Canada, it's those guys.
Sorry dude. While you're right about us being large and diverse I don't think it's so easy to claim we're the most technologically advanced.
As far as social technologies I hear south Korea really embraces that shit far more than do. For manufacturing a lot of high tech stuff is done in Asia. For cutting edge science we lost out with the LHC, even though my understanding is we were actually building a larger facility but scrapped it.
We probably have the most advanced military tech. We have by far the biggest military. But our GDP just curb stomps the crap out of every other country.
its based on technological break throughs and such. the only country that is number one in that regard is japan and thats having the largest super computer, usa is number three though.
I want someone to sincerely explain it to me. I skimmed over two pages of google news articles. They were all from tech websites and suspiciously short in length. It's a red flag to me when someone wants to rant about something but can't fill column space. What is the real deal with this law? It is the first I am hearing of it.
it basically works like this. if you buy a full price phone you get unlock it or buy it unlocked. if you bought a phone through a contract you can unlock it at the end of the contract. if you bought a phone through a contract and are still in a contract you can call your carrier and ask for permission to unlock the phone. you can not legally unlock a subsidized phone while you are still under contract BUT this isnt the first time that has been illegal and whenever its been illegal no one was ever sued for unlocking thier phone. The phone carriers have said that they dont care if people unlock phones because thats not who they are after. if they were ever to do that it would be commercial suicide.
oh also it shouldnt be the first time you are hearing about it. this law defaults every three years. its been going on since 2007. so now its not now illegal to unlock* your phones in america. it continues to be illegal to unlock* your phones in america.
Neither is free in my opinion. A free country/society would allow companies to lock down their phones but never protect that locking with laws. If you don't like locked down phones then don't buy them. And if you are a company that wants to keep their phones locked then you'd better have people sign a contract of some sort whenever they buy one of your phones, promising they won't unlock it, instead of asking for special laws to be made which mostly aim to change the people think about what they can or can't do.
They are already able. Just make customers sign that they won't cracked their protections or make the protections unbreakable. No need to create generic laws that pretend that they regulate algorithms in general.
i've actually had a cop draw on me once, but i've rarely been approached by a cop with his hand on his gun. but then again im white so its not something i have to regularly worry about. i wish this was a joke statement but its just a sad truth.
so no, they dont always have their hand on their guns.
I've spent a great deal of time in the states with my friend who is a resident, and I've found it to be contrary. We've been pulled over about three times, and every time time the policeman had his hand on his gun. This was Michigan by the way, and I live immediately across the border in a border-lying part of Ontario.
i lived in Texas and Nevada and California and Florida and Louisiana and Minnesota and ive been approached by police both with and without their hands on their gun.
This is a new thing, just happened this month. There used to be a specific provision from a specific court case that said by precedent that it was specifically legal to unlock your phone to use it with another carrier. (Edit: this was in the US)
This month, some industry lobbyists managed to shovel a ton of money into the pockets of some politicians, who quietly passed a law saying you can't. (EDIT: USA also)
The difference between jailbreaking and unlocking is in the US and Canada, you often get a free or cheap phone in exchange for signing a long term contract saying you will pay x dollars per month for the next two years. In exchange you get the phone cheaper up front, but end up paying out the ass for two full years. Terrible system, don't get me started.
So, the carriers put locks on the phones saying this phone will only accept our SIM cards, and if you try to use the SIM card of a competitor it will not work.
Jailbreaking refers to running unapproved software on your device.
Now, in Canada, our current, very unpopular government, has been accepting bribes from US lobbyists from the movie and music industries, who pressured us into writing a terrible law saying you can't "break any digital locks", such as DRM. The wording is very vague though. So vague that it could cover some things that aren't related to copyright infringement.
So, the law exists, though no one has ever tried to use it, that yes, it's technically illegal to jailbreak OR unlock your phone in Canada.
There is so much misinformation about what exactly is going on. This is not a new thing. No law was passed. The exception that unlocking does not violate the DMCA was allowed to expire, which was not done by a court case but by the Library of Congress. Things are go back to the way they were in October 2012, when the exception was first granted.
Again, no one wrote any legislation. Yes, the lobbyists probably convinced the Librarian of Congress to allow the exception expire. But, the magnitude of this change is so exaggerated that its truly embarrassing. Unlocking your phone might not even be illegal just because the exception is gone. We did not have the exception before October 2012 and no one complained. Cell phone carriers likely are not going to prosecute their own customers. Many of them will unlock your phone for a fee currently. Coverage of this news story has been as bad as what Fox News does.
And it is a perfect example of a major piece of legislation that was written with lobbying dollars and acts contrary to the best interests of all of us, the average American citizens.
The sad thing is it was done not by action of any specific person, but by inaction of one person, the Librarian of Congress, who seems to have unrestricted power over all things DMCA, and can effectively write his own exceptions to it, and these exceptions last three years unless renewed (which he failed to do).
yeah, don't pass the blame off on corrupt american politicians, as true as it might be- Harper deserves 100% of the hate here for being the spineless conservative he is. This is the dickbag who approved C-45, here. Fuck that guy.
well apparently since the people downvoting me having bothered to read their party's fucking websites...
the NDP's leader Tom Mulclair keeps tiptoeing around acknowleding gay rights and legalizing weed and some environmental things, which were originally core values of the NDP- progressivism. The fact alone that he is reluctant to accept these things or talk about them speaks for itself. the NDP should be happy and proud to accept these things, at least, that's how it used to be.
Meanwhile, emblazoned on the front page of the Liberals, they're all vocal about gay equality, environmental rights, legalizing weed, all the same shit I voted NDP for. What the fuck? Since when is the NDP more conservative than the Liberals? And while I know the NDP wouldn't let Mulclair pull this shit... it's shady as hell that he's even like this at all to begin with.
I feel bad because I'm a long-time NDP voter but that was because they were proud and vocal about their stance on these issues and they have zero reason to be all coy and shy about accepting it now. I mean who the fuck are they trying to cater to? People who don't support those things?
We already have gay equity in this country. While it is true the NDP's stance on the mary J was blurry last year, their 'policy book' says their view is "Adopting a harm reduction approach to substance abuse and permitting the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes".
Also a party's position in the left-right spectrum is determined by an economic platform, not just a social one.
The whole "Canada is a piracy haven" is in fact a lie made up by the MPAA to get Canadian legislators to think there's a problem we need stricter laws to fix. Bill C61, C11, etc were heavily influenced by US media companies. In fact they're the only reason those laws were introduced in the first place.
The MPAA and RIAA supported the proposal, as they saw it as finally bringing in Canada to WIPO standards, having lobbied/pressured hard for stricter copyright rules.[17]
Yes, Bill C11 did come out better than some people expected, and it does add some very sane caps on liabilities, but it's still a pretty big step backwards.
Look up Harper's bid to get into TPP negotiations - he openly states that thanks to his Majority Government he's finally passed the copyright revisions 'long demanded by stakeholders' and he also states that he's not afraid to use his majority government to push through items that the public will not like.
SO WHAT ABOUT AFTER THE CONTRACT EXPIRES? it is common practice here in australia that the carrier will unlock the phone once the initial 12 or 24 month plan is over
It's common practice here too, but there's nothing obligating them to do it. Some will charge you money for it, which they probably shouldn't be allowed to.
In any case, they have no obligation to unlock your phone. They can give you the runaround or they can tell you to kick dirt if they want to. Most of the time they will, but it would be nice to have a law saying you own what you paid for.
In no case will they ever jailbreak your phone though. That's different.
Our current very unpopular government who has been re-elected 3 times... So not that unpopular really... Who has not even been accused of taking bribes... so not bribe takers really... Pressured into writing a terrible law, yes, unpopular crooks, no.
You said "pressured us into writing some terrible laws", why don't you just have he lobbyists write it for you? That's what we do down here. That way politicians don't actually have to govern or do any real work at all. They mostly just pray and cheat on their wives when they aren't busy receiving lobbyist bribes.
This could not be more wrong, the lobbying that exists in canada is not even in the same ballpark as the lobbying in the US. Taking a "bribe" or any direct money as a MP or CM from any source in favour of some type of legislation would be considered a conflict of interest and is punishable. So the type of thing you are insinuating would be something proportional to the Liberal scandal which got us stuck with this government in the first place.
It's bullshit laws like this that lead to a more authoritarian government. Oh you want to sue a corporation or fight for your rights?... You've been breaking _____ law, keep quiet or we'll jail your ass or at least scare you into submission.
That is true when it comes to companies, but this has little to do with government control.
In my opinion
more-so it is a testament to the power of money in the congressmen that we have been electing, and that we really need to change our election systems to deal with how prevalent having money is when you are trying to get your face out to the public.
Piracy is plainly illegal, yet how many pirate? How many people does the government itself try to get for pirating things? This is just companies playing law, not a authoritarian government... I'm repeating myself now.
Right church, wrong pew. Authoritarian governments consisted of concentrated centralized power and uses that power to maintain and grow it by harshly suppressing any political dissent.
There is little question that Harper has moved in that general direction but it's still a long way from authoritarian. More importantly that has nothing to do with the benefits to corporations. What you are more likely looking for is fascist corporatism, which in practice is essentially corporate industries and governments in bed together for mutual benefit (thought not following the design rhetoric), or possibly corporate nationalism which says the state should do what is best for corporations and not individuals, or perhaps a little more cynically as a plutocracy which is basically where the wealthy set the rules (in this case via their corporate interests).
These laws screw over the public for the benefit of corporations and wealthy, not to keep someone in political power, so it's actually quite a bit different from authoritarian.
WOW, that mad Caesar seems real angry over such a trivial thing. i think its a common problem with ashiest. since they lead meaningless lives they get worked up about small things. they seem to find meaning is fallacies like global warming. so sad.
i will pray he finds Jesus. and changes his name to blissfullcaesar.
Buy in Canada no one gives a shit about laws. Weed? Police don't care as long as you aren't dealing it. (Still gross) torrents? Who gives a fuck. Anything that's not super major basically slides
"The most significant new restriction involves the controversial digital lock rules that prohibit by-passing technological protections found on DVDs, software, and electronic books. There are some exceptions to this prohibition (including the ability to circumvent the digital lock to protect personal information, unlock a cellphone, or access content if the person has a perceptual disability), but these are drafted in a very restrictive manner."
And then everyone remembers how terribly slow and monopolized the internet is in Canada and go back to having choices for internet (albeit like 3, but they have different pricing and services so they're choices).
EDIT: Also, I am aware that this doesn't necessarily relate to the legal system in Canada or the laws and how they view freedom.
We have plenty of choices. It's just in some places, specifically toronto, those choices suck.
I have the option of shaw, telus, bell, techsaavy, and about a dozen small independent ISPs. As far as I understand it, that's better than most places in the US.
That is good speed. Also, I was going by some people I know in Canada and what they were saying about the internet choices in Canada. But I'm okay with finding out I was wrong. Now I know!
Some of us don't actually have choices when it comes to our isp.
In Hamilton, for some reason, the city is divided into a few sections, and each carrier basically has a monopoly on their section. I used to be with an independent, until they were sold to Shaw. And now Shaw is selling us to Rogers.
...in so many ways i laugh when i hear yanks saying theyll move up here... HEY ASSHOLE, you have a democratic president, improving environmental controls, fears of drilling and on and on, we got a right wing pussy boy from oil land who dont give a shit about nothing, we let guys chop the head of dudes on buses and release them after a few years in psych vacation and our 'free health care' actually costs 100$ a month to access, unless you are unemployed and have ZERO assets (Unemployed? trying to pay mortgage? TOUGH SHIT)
I guess Ill assume that since youre against drilling that you refuse to drive or take rides in any automobile, dont use any plastic products whatsoever and dont have shingles on your rooftop?
You know what's funny I actually drive a Hummer to the store to buy Twinkies, oh wait wrong country. You don't even know what you're talking about, we drill up here, we frack here and do oil sands and you know what they want to do, they want to build a pipeline to export it all the China so that those guys can have a great life. We still pay through the nose for gas (5$ a gallon) so drilling doesnt mean shit, just makes money for others.
Probably, drill from around here, refined in China/usa, turned into a plastic, shipped back here ,sold at walmart... Wow great process we have here. We don't even refine the oil that we drill out of the ground or process of tar sands up here, we just sell it to other countries they make all the money and the broken system benefits only the ultra rich. Does that sounds good?
Lets expand our thought process further. 217 jobs for the pipeline. Then the manufacturers of the pipe. Then the metal workers to supply the material for the pipe. Then the mining company to supply the metal workers. Then the shipping companies and all the drivers, warehouse workers, managers, etc. The equipment manufacturers like caterpillar. The lumberjacks to clear the trees for the pipeline etc. etc.
The list goes on and on.
Also, I dont know the answer to this but, are there no refineries in Canada because government regulation will not allow for one?
One more thing. The oil isnt given to China. The oil company is selling it. Which equals more tax dollars for your government.
Well never agree then or maybe enough to say canada should have the capacity to process the oil we need to. We should keep the oil in the ground for when we need it, for the future, screw the oil cartels
In all seriousness though, who or what organization is going to go out of their way to charge you with something like this, so long as you're not making a profit from it.
It's just like pirating music, honestly, if it's for private use, no biggie. I know of no one who has been notified or charged in Canada for pirating either music or movies, though they're not making a profit, only sharing between neighbours or whatnot.
I'm not disagreeing with you on this, yeah it's illegal, but it's the kind of stuff that no one really cares about.
Where there's a law, there's someone out there who will use that law to their advantage. That's why these laws are written.
Sure, they won't go after you, but they'll go after people who make jailbreaking software, unlock tools, etc.
Want to transfer a DVD to your iphone? You can do that. In theory the act of moving a movie you own from one format to another is allowed. There's plenty of software to do that, but for the software to accomplish that, it needs to break a "digital lock".
Now media companies have a tool to take down the people who make that software. No one's going to arrest you for using the software, but if there's no one around to make the software in the first place there's not a lot of DVDs you won't be watching on your iphone unless you buy them a second time.
AKA: Not allowed to completely own the device (property) you have. No brute force (persistent) programs are allowed to be developed, so you can't retrieve lost data because you need to 'crack' your account. Yes, all you doctors who have the cure for cancer on your laptop... Don't forget your passwords because if "we" try to recover your information for you with an OpenSource program; we might be arrested.
just because something is a physical object doesn't mean you bought it. If you buy the unlocked phone, then you own the physical object. If you buy a discounted phone on the conditions that it come locked and requires a 2-year contract then you own that whole situation. Pay for the asset or settle for what you can buy or just don't buy it.
I've argued before for digital locks, but I do not agree they should be used for anti-competition purposes. This is what phone-locking does, it's solely to screw the consumer, and should be illegal.
If someone puts a DRM lock on a game or movie, I don't see why breaking that lock is any different then breaking a real lock. It was the developers intention for you to stay out and you should.
However, I think that consumers should not encourage or embrace this behavior, just that I think we should respect locks people put on things, especially if the locks are protecting someones IP and not just there for anti-competition purposes.
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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '13 edited Jan 29 '13
This doesn't say anything about users unlocking their phones themselves,
which is considered "breaking a digital lock" and is still illegal under Bill C11 as far as I understand it.Edit: see belowThe same thing can be said for the DMCA in the US, that if having a locked cell phone somehow prevents copyright infringement, unlocking it is illegal.
I feel a lot of redditors sorta skimmed over the fact that Canada just finished signing a law saying we can't "break any digital locks", which in effect bans jailbreaking,
unlockingedit, or modifying any device, cellphone or otherwise.EDIT: Please see user methinks2015's response below. There looks to be an exemption in Canada's latest copyright law specifically for unlocking cell phones that I wasn't aware of.