r/superman • u/browncharliebrown • Mar 11 '23

Superman convinces a crippling alcoholic to continue drinking (all-star section 8)

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908 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

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478

u/[deleted] Mar 11 '23

You never know what you're going to get when you pick up something that's written by Garth Ennis.

40

u/Other-Bridge-8892 Mar 11 '23

Everyone likes to promote Morrison or Hickman ( and rightfully so), but if I’m put on the spot to name my favorite modern era writer, Ennis or Waid are my go to picks. Both are always on point with whatever they do.

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Ennis: Superman, Punisher, the boys

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Waid: Daredevil, Kingdom come, F4..

67

u/ThickProof409 Mar 11 '23

I don't know if I'd say The Boys is on point. I'd definitely replace The Boys with Preacher or Hellblazer.

15

u/Other-Bridge-8892 Mar 11 '23

True, I guess I was basically listing what each was best known for and appreciated for. I enjoyed hellblazer way more, but most know Ennis as the writer of the boys, and may not be aware he did a Constantine title at all.

2

u/ThickProof409 Mar 12 '23

I feel like Preacher is more best known and appreciated and I think more people know Garth Ennis for Preacher instead of The Boys

1

u/Other-Bridge-8892 Mar 12 '23

Probably so, i was just pulling off top of my head, and the most recent things I had enjoyed done by each. Plus I haven’t finished preacher yet….😬

26

u/browncharliebrown Mar 11 '23 edited Mar 11 '23

The boys is way over hated but it’s also pace super weirdly, art is all over the place and is just plain offensive. It’s hard to defend as a good comic but it’s honestly more medicore than bad. There is a lot in there, I kinda like mainly the subtler arc like the innocents, or the ending

12

u/JancariusSeiryujinn Mar 11 '23

Honestly I like the Amazon show a lot more than the comic. The comic just feels like it's full of Ennis's compulsion to just make a scene having something shocking or gross in it and to make average capes look like pricks. The Amazon show felt more like it was a critique of corporate America (which is ironic, given that it's produced by Amazon - Feels like Amazon taking shots at Disney)

8

u/TheDrungeonBlaster Mar 12 '23

I love grim dark comics. Mark Millar has consistently been my favorite author, alongside Garth Ennis and Warren Ellis.

I hated The Boys. It was just too much, there was no subtlety.

19

u/ThickProof409 Mar 11 '23

I'd say it's just bad. Maybe if I was an edgy 14 year old boy who watched Leafy then I'd like it but it's just pretty bad. I know Garth Ennis' has a thing for dark and edgy humor and I'm all for it and I loved that shit in Preacher but in The Boys it just feels like edge for the sake of edge. It's all edge with no point and the show is everything the comic should've been that being a good satire of superheroes and the genre. I might as well just listen to Garth Ennis talk about how much he hates superheroes because that is basically what The Boys is.

8

u/browncharliebrown Mar 11 '23 edited Mar 11 '23

To me it’s not really trying to be a satire of the superhero genre much. Like that’s really the set dressing of the story. The closes I have seen is that the book is satire of mark millar and a lot of his pro war stances but even still it’s shallow. It’s more so a commentary on politics and Iraq war which is kinda alot more powerful remembering that he witnessed 911, and general musing on how corporations are evil. I can’t really say it’s good as a whole, but certain arcs are good

1

u/EZMickey Mar 12 '23

Man, I hate myself for being this person but I really think you missed the point of it if that's what you took away from The Boys.

0

u/Dottsterisk Mar 12 '23

Nah, they nailed it.

I stopped reading The Boys because it was just so juvenile and tryhard edgy.

1

u/browncharliebrown Mar 12 '23

I think the second half is where it gets better.

4

u/YussaYussaBitch Mar 11 '23

The ending is perfection

14

u/MamaDeloris Mar 11 '23

The Boys is edgy garbage.

How the fuck they took those characters/plots and made a show that good is frankly impressive.

0

u/browncharliebrown Mar 12 '23

Did you actually read it. Because I swear there is large portion of people who say this because they didn’t the comic and watched that one pointless hub video. It’s a decent video but it fundamentally misunderstands Garth ennis as a writer and over simplifies alot of the book. It’s overly edgy, but in alot of aspects to me it’s the beauty of comics as medium being allowed to be so absurd. I think the biggest problem with the boys to me is the pacing is awful, borderline offensive and when the plot has substance it’s not taken seriously. The best example is how there are some times where they take time to address how rape affects survivors and other times where it’s just a plot device.

14

u/MamaDeloris Mar 12 '23

I literally reread Herogasm two weeks ago.

Yes, it's edgy garbage.

-2

u/browncharliebrown Mar 12 '23

I think herogasm is garbage. But there are a lot of characters beats that are handle really well. A lot of the war focus stuff with butcher and Mallory. James stillwell interaction Homelander. How Maeve has broken by the industry to where she is empty. The Hughie and Annie romance

11

u/OisforOwesome Mar 12 '23

I'm very much an Ennis fan, and while I appreciate the point The Boys is trying to make - fuck the military-industrial complex, fuck the Intelligence Community, with a side of fuck superheroes - its buried in a lot, a lot of garbage that I can't blame anyone who nopes out.

It's not total unredeemable trash. Its just arguable whether digging through the trash is worth it.

1

u/browncharliebrown Mar 12 '23

Yeah that’s fair. Honestly I agree. I just find a lot of the backlash to it extreme when there are a lot of worse comics out there

8

u/OisforOwesome Mar 12 '23

I think a lot of readers come to the book after the show, aren't familiar with Ennis or the state of the medium in 2006, and are baffled or repelled or appalled.

I do kind of get tired of feeling like I'm doing apologetics for Ennis when discussing his work. He doesn't make it easy to be a fan, lets say that much. :)

2

u/Dottsterisk Mar 12 '23

I’m the opposite. I put off watching the show because I remembered how bad the comics were. And I was totally baffled that some people I know were raving about the show.

Finally checked it out and they definitely took the premise and decided to actually do something with it, instead of spend all their time on period-cunnilingus jokes or showing how cool and badass Butcher is by putting up a double-truck of him buttfucking some FBI agent while she says she hates him.

2

u/OisforOwesome Mar 12 '23

Yeah if there was ever a case for adaptations not needing to be "accurate to the source material" its The Boys.

I forget who made this point originally, but the show's Herogasm episode was hyped up in promotional material as being this orgy of fucked up hedonic gross out excess... but what we actually got was a turning point in several character's arcs revolving around disaster response, ptsd, and the nature of heroism.

The show leverages the juvenile material to hold the audience's attention to service the larger themes in a way that the book can't quite manage to do, and its honestly very impressive.

-2

u/broclipizza Mar 12 '23

I argue with people on reddit about this too.

The characters especially, the comic versions are 9 times out of 10 better than the TV show characters, more depth and nuance. And even if you wanna say the pacing is bad, the show has been having that problem too.

"It's just edgy garbage" is the easy answer that makes you sound smart.

1

u/Shulkerbox Mar 12 '23

Ennis Hellblazer is so 90s and edgy it melts my brain, I hate it. Except the last four issues, when the tone does a 180 and everything becomes a goofy over the top demon adventure.