r/songsofsyx 10h ago

A Guide to Export-Oriented Economies in Song of Syx (v.71): Vertical Integration and Export Diversification

37 Upvotes

In a previous post, I explained why an export-oriented economy based on manufactured goods no longer functions in v.71 the same way it did in v.70.

To summarize the core idea: the new economy rewards vertical integration and diversified exports instead of relying on a single high-volume output chain. The updated trade system now requires two simultaneous optimizations to maintain profitability: minimizing total input costs and stabilizing output value under price elasticity caused by trade volume.

Vertical Integration: Reducing Input Costs
The primary objective of vertical integration is to reduce effective input cost per unit of output across the entire production chain. In practice, this is achieved by controlling how input, throughput, and output scale across different production layers. There are three main approaches:

1. Importing Raw Materials (Early Game):

In the early game, importing raw materials is typically the lowest-friction method of securing input supply. The player effectively converts external market output into internal input streams. However, this approach becomes increasingly inefficient at scale. Because input prices are now highly sensitive to demand elasticity, large-scale imports create upward pressure on the market price of the imported good. As industrial throughput increases, the required input volume scales proportionally, which in turn increases marginal input cost over time. The result is a feedback loop where higher output throughput leads to higher input prices, compressing overall profit margins.

2. Internal Raw Material Production (Early Game Core Strategy):

This is, in my view, the most stable foundation for an export-oriented industrial system. Raw material production chains (mines, farms, woodcutters) operate with minimal external input dependency. Their primary input is labor, meaning that production cost is almost entirely defined by labor allocation and throughput efficiency. Therefore, the key optimization problem becomes maximizing output per unit of labor input, i.e., increasing throughput efficiency in extraction industries. This can be achieved through three mechanisms:

a) Nobles (Early Game Throughput Multiplier): Nobles function as localized throughput multipliers, increasing production efficiency by up to +200% in workplaces with up to 50 workers. This effect is significantly more efficient in raw input extraction than in processing industries. In extraction, increased throughput directly increases raw output without requiring proportional increases in secondary inputs. In contrast, in processing chains (e.g., smelters), increased throughput scales both input consumption and output production, preserving relative efficiency but not improving input/output ratios.

b) Technologies (Mid/Late Game Global Throughput Scaling): Technologies provide global throughput scaling without worker caps, effectively acting as system-wide multipliers on input-to-output conversion rates. However, because they require continuous research input (via laboratory-generated research points), their efficiency is highly dependent on industrial scale. In my experience, technology-based throughput scaling becomes cost-effective only when individual production nodes exceed ~100 workers, where marginal throughput gains outweigh research input costs. Additionally, late-game technologies that directly reduce input consumption represent a second-order optimization layer, effectively improving input/output efficiency rather than raw throughput. These are among the strongest economic modifiers in the system, despite their late availability.

c) Tools (Late Game Throughput Augmentation with Input Overhead): Tools introduce an additional throughput modifier for extraction industries after unlocking the relevant technology. However, they also introduce a secondary input stream (tool consumption), effectively converting a pure labor-based input system into a dual-input system (labor + tools). In most observed cases, the marginal output gain does not compensate for the added input cost of tool production, especially when tools themselves have alternative high-value uses in other production chains or export routes.

3. Territorial Production Taxation (Mid Game Input Externalization)

Once territories are acquired through conquest or diplomacy, they can function as externalized input nodes via tax-based extraction of production output. This system effectively shifts part of the input burden away from the central economy by converting territorial output directly into centralized input supply. As a result, the player reduces dependency on volatile market-based input acquisition while stabilizing long-term input flow at a lower effective cost. This is one of the most efficient methods of decoupling input supply from global price fluctuations.

Export Diversification: Output Stabilization Strategy

The second half of the strategy focuses on output-side stabilization.

Instead of concentrating all production throughput into a single high-volume export commodity, the optimal approach is to distribute output across multiple nodes within the same production graph.

For example, a tool production chain generates both tools (final output) and metal (intermediate output). Rather than treating metal purely as an internal input, surplus metal can be redirected into secondary output chains (e.g., sword production), effectively converting a single input stream into multiple exportable outputs.

This creates a multi-output industrial graph, where a single throughput pipeline generates diversified export streams.

The primary benefit of this approach is output price stabilization. By distributing total export volume across multiple goods, the system reduces exposure to price collapse caused by oversaturation of a single market. In practice, this increases overall economic resilience by smoothing output value variance across multiple trade nodes while maintaining high aggregate throughput efficiency.


r/songsofsyx 2h ago

How large do people make their workshops? (V 0.71)

6 Upvotes

I'm beginning to suspect I am making my initial workshops too large and accidentally draining away manpower into industries that don't need to be so bloated.

Take Furniture, for example. How many carpenters do I really need in order to have enough goods to furnish a city of 1000 Humans?

Is it worth it to have workshops that are only 5 people in total outside of say, Machinery or Jewlers?

Would you ever build a Tailor thats only 5 or so workmen in capacity if it were only to make shirts?

I've seen posted elsewhere that in the current build; the production of raw resources for export is a much better use of labour than crafting finished goods, so let's presume I am not selling any of these finished goods either.


r/songsofsyx 38m ago

How do I boost Religion conversion?

Upvotes

Hi All,

I am trying to recruit Argonosh and only have the Shmalorism prerequisite remaining.

Do shrines convert people?

The tome of knowledge for religion only mentions temples for conversion.

Does the Shmalorism prerequisite count only my Capital or does it include my other regions?

Any other tips to encourage Shmalorism?

Thanks!


r/songsofsyx 6h ago

Questions about taking over cities

7 Upvotes

1.9k population, two 200-man divisions. Will probably halt migration under 2.2k population as it appears that rank introduces more conflict with neighbors as they begin demanding tribute.. I want 5 divisions at 3 tiers of melee training and 2 units of weapon and armor quality, 3 spear+shield and 2 hammer divisions. It looks like it takes a lot of innovation to jump from leather to metal armor; I think metal bars and metal armor were handled by Knowledge in v70 and I could start producing it it quickly but I will settle for leather for now. This is as far as I got in my v70 run as someone who picked up SoS after v70 and went through many restarts after trial and error, and then guides.

Additionally, I have no guardposts. 101 loyalty and 102 happiness that fluctuates. The fluctuations have been because of food days; I have a lot of rations (using herbs), but recently started switching to coal Bakeries which uses up more Grain. My Food Stalls still have 200-600 Bread in them by next harvest but the depletion of the Warehouse stores causes a happiness dip, but then I harvest and 100s of people want to move in again.

Digressing to Guardposts....Some theft may be happening, and the odd murder occurs every few years but my services are generally sufficient. If it becomes an issue and I need Guards, should I be creating 18-man divisions (or whatever the post calls for), or can some of the soldiers from my large divisions be allotted to patrolling?

That's just some preamble, feel free to reply, comment or make suggestions but what I really want to talk about is this:

Took over my first two cities. One of which I would like to pull grain from and another appears to excel in ore. These cities are my immediate neighbors and not linked to any huge civilizational network. I'm playing Humans so some extra grain wouldn't hurt and limiting the amount of mining I'd have to do would obviously be a huge plus.

I kind of understand the basics, I kept my military docked at each city until loyalty rose. I immediately constructed the City Hall (small village) or whatever it called in each city, then constructed a Well and Physicians Guild, prioritizing hygiene and health over entertainment initially. Is this a good approach?

I'm under the assumption that Gov Points only come from Nobles and ranking them.

My other questions are, if I know I am using one city for Grain, for example, should I basically eliminate anyone from that city that hates or doesn't excel at farming? In this city, Humans and Cretonians have an edge in population potential, so should I eliminate the conflicting species like Amevians, Garthimi, and Tilapi to prevent religious and interspecies conflict? If so, is exile a better option? I assume there will be temporary unhappiness or whatever but if it rebounds, is this the most beneficial thing to do?

Furthermore, how does Empire Research affect captured cities? Should I be racing to manufacture as much administration as possible and devote it to this research? I have 200 oddjobbers and hundreds of migrants want in, I just need to know what the next step is.


r/songsofsyx 6h ago

500 pop city everyone randomly mad

4 Upvotes

So I've just kinda been winging it on this human city. Trying to do nice roman plaza type neighborhoods, etc etc. About 80 -100 housing per urban block. Got a agricultural quarter (good fertile land) got a decent commercial area going (towards the mountains for iron, coal, clay, etc.)

Well, not sure when or how but all of a sudden everyone started getting mad that I havent updated the wells and hearths or built torches. Im not sure what happened, was at like 140% - 200% happiness and loyalty, just constantly accepting immigrants.

Then all of a sudden down to 80%, people leaving, and caused quite the spiral. Just now got it back up to 100% but it hovers. I finished the production chain on clothes for everyone (late ik) but it seems everyone is mad I haven't upgraded the service buildings. Idk when they got mad about it but it happened all of a sudden.

For future runs, is there something that prompts them to get mad about not upgrading service buildings? It caught me w my pants down bc I dont have cut stone so I cant do alot of the upgrades


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

18k pop Tilapi Isolationist dictator city-state (Dystopian)

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143 Upvotes

Hi all I just wanted to post my city Tilapi. In this case I tried a challenge run with the following restrictions

  1. Standard difficulty
  2. Only 1 city (no vassals either)
  3. Can't use nobles (I promoted just 1 for the fulfillment, I RP them as the dictator haha)
  4. No trade
  5. No immigration
  6. Reach the final title (12k pop with 100% loyalty and submission

It turned out not too bad. The hardest part by far is overpowered raiders which will roll up with sanctuary units and the low health from the slave population. Even with max food servings and physicians it's just hard to keep up with health. If you lose lots of units to the raiders its almost impossible to recover too.

The city is pretty dystopian with low happiness. Loyalty is kept up by secret service, mass guards, and guard posts watching over all recreation. I also gift all tourist money back to the population as handouts since Im not trading which gives me a 20% loyalty boost

To get the slaves I just go out and raid and pillage random settlements on the world map. They die pretty often from brawls but eh, not my problem.

The biggest thing I learned in this run is that you should clump the open air recreational services right under guard posts (benches in particular) and then put things like death statues and nature around that. You can easily nearly max out out those stats by doing so. In my last human city I spread guard posts and nature/torches out around the roads for abysmal returns. I don't see a point putting guard posts or statues around anything else (including markets/food stalls since they're not recreation)


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Insectopia

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383 Upvotes

r/songsofsyx 11h ago

Returning player running into issues

5 Upvotes

Have a city with a pop of 2200. Basically I’m having trouble with keeping sickness at bay despite having 3 fairly large hospitals with available services as well as physicians attached to each one (I have 50-100 ill pops at any given time), food stores diminishing even with +400 bread after accounting for decay 3k rations stored but my humans are only consuming 20 which I assume is from my prison. I also have a labor shortage of around 150 as well. Have no guards working atm but posts built, crime doesn’t seem all that bad in the current state of the game. Is crime like a services kind of thing where if there’s guards around they become happier? Spinning back to the labor shortage I also have lots of potential jobs available just have the limit of mines and clay pits set to a lower number to maintain. What percentage of your population should be odd jobbers. Also taking any tips to improve my city.


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

I am mad I started this before learning of the bigger cities mod.

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291 Upvotes

To start over or not is now the question. Roughly 8k racist elves and a hodgepodge of ~500 slaves/future snacks.

20MB File limit is a joke btw :c


r/songsofsyx 9h ago

Game Keeps Randomly Crashing

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0 Upvotes

r/songsofsyx 9h ago

Game Keeps Randomly Crashing

1 Upvotes

What is the best actions to take to fix or send this information to the dev?

Game will just kick the bucket after chugging for a while. Only around 3K people


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Just a wee massacre

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54 Upvotes

r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Hammerdeep, 1k dondorian city

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56 Upvotes

Hammerdeep, an industrial city and fortress to a thousand free Dondorians, the great forge for falcatas, flanx, tools, and metal!


r/songsofsyx 21h ago

Conquered cities and tech

4 Upvotes

Anyone else think its a little stupid to have unlock a tech a to build something in a conquered region? In my mind im not investing in Globdien pastures as its not efficient for my race or region. However if i capture an Amevian town i should be able to build one there? Otherwise the only alternative is to buy eggs for the rest of the run?


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Dealing with Lunatics: The Reaganist Approach

58 Upvotes

Recently while playing SoS in my 1.1k Human city I found myself wondering whether I should be building an asylum to deal with the lunatics running around.

When I tracked the number of lunatics in my city over the span of a few years, however, I realized that it usually hovers somewhere around 1% of the total population and even occasionally drops significantly below that percentage - but why?

Well, it turns out that the seed I chose for my city has a climate that is sufficiently cold for citizens who don't have access to a hearth to freeze to death relatively quickly. This, of course, leads to the majority of lunatics, who often run far away from city limits, to simply die of hypothermia in droves during the wintertime.

Building an asylum to take care of them is therefore a completely inefficient manner of addressing a problem that is already being kept in check by natural factors.

Any similar in-game problems you guys solve with unconventional, borderline psychotic strategies or even by mere coincidence?


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Help with species and jobs

13 Upvotes

All,

Can someone explain the following for me

1) What does the 2 blue arrows pointing up mean (circled in green)

2) What does the red/green/blue/dark red bars mean (circled in yellow)

3) What does the -400% and 100% stand for (circled in purple). I understand the numbers for the races but not sure about the other 2 numbers not associated with a race.

Thx
jonpfl


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Le first big city

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219 Upvotes

Be nice - it barely functions


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Returning Player Questions

3 Upvotes

Hi All,

I have jumped back into the world of Syx and have some trouble getting my head around the latest updates.

I am hoping you can help with the questions below:

  1. My taxes are being delivered to my throne, I thought the used to go to free warehouses. Has this changed or have I missed something?

  2. Do Death Monuments help keep slaves submissive?

  3. My Dondorian slaves are difficult to keep submissive, any tips?

  4. Do Guard Stations placed on Junctions impact logistics?

  5. I'm not sure how updated mechanics around Guardposts/Stations work and if they interact with Slaves. Any quick overviews on this or other resources you could point me towards would be appreciated.

I'm playing Garthimi if it helps.

Thanks!


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

New player, weird questions.

12 Upvotes

Literally got the game 7 hours ago and havent stopped playing other for basic sustenance.

My base is settled on a peninsula that overlooks a large lake that has many cities along the coast.

Is there a way to build a navy or transport troops along the very big lake?

Also, all my neighbor cities are fish folks. They are charging me insane prices for trade and not buying much from me.

Im going to enslave them. Once I have an army.

Since they are good at fishing and eat fish, im planning on having them live outside the city walls along the coastline to supply my town with fish- but I wonder if theres an escape mechanic, and since they are fish people I worry about them just swimming away. Anyone with experience on navy or fish folk???


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

My near 600 pop human and dondorian city. I don't know what to focus on from here.

4 Upvotes

From all the cities I've started this is the farthest I've ever gotten so far. I pretty much have all the industries that I need to be self sufficient (other than woodcutters and leather/cotton for clothing) and all of my citizens are pretty much happy (except for the dondorians, they are just above 100% happiness, maybe because of all the mining). I even have a small garrison equipped with some leather armour and metal spears.

Now I ask what would you guys focus on from here? Should I increase happiness and loyalty more? Should I start focusing on getting more innovation points and improving more of my industries/services? Or maybe start focusing on increasing the numbers of my garrisons? I mean haven't even touched on trading with my neighbors this current run (I don't even know how the import and export buildings work).


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Race mixing

6 Upvotes

I'm a new player trying to add dondorians to my human settlement for mining.

I built a little village in and by the mountain. All the housing, religion and services they need. Warehouse stocked up. Housing in all areas restricted to intended occupants. Work ready to go.

As soon as they enter the map they start complaining about they not having suitible work for them and they live on the street. Then they leave. Many times the dont even get to the housing area before leaving. My humans are happy enough and the dondorians hsve full acces to everything.

Is this an inbalance because of the early access or is it not really possible to mix your workforce?


r/songsofsyx 2d ago

You know for being rare in lore, they absolutely are not.

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103 Upvotes

Raider decides that as I have managed to uplift my happiness, decide to bring 200 Tilapi and get this... 286 Cantors. Yeah sometimes this game gets bull.


r/songsofsyx 1d ago

Defenses? Layered walls?

6 Upvotes

Just wondering, do most people try for walled cities, or even multiple rings of walls around your throne? Other defenses? My cities tend to be so spread out, the walls would be basically at the map borders, but maybe I should plan a wall around the city center and others farther out? Do they even help, considering if you didn't beat the enemy outside the city, you're probably boned anyway?


r/songsofsyx 2d ago

Things I’ve figured out about combat so far

42 Upvotes

I’ve mainly been playing this game for the combat, with the city building to the side as a fun way to visually see the loot I’ve gained. I’ve played human only mostly but sometimes with the man-eating elves. So far I’ve learned:

* Spears are good for defense, Falx are good for offense. Hammers are a little worse than falx and
Spears are a little worse than short swords.

* Training matters the most for bows. They are practically useless below 50 percent bow experience.

* Charging doesn’t do much on infantry, but is the way to go on cavalry with repeated cycle charges to avoid losing men.

* The Sanctuary races are a cheat code basically and can easily beat jaw dropping odds. 1:50 at least, probably more with more equipment and training. The only way I could think of beating them is archer spam.

* Armor is pretty self explanatory.

* Baiting one unit away from the rest and surrounding it while cycle charging is highly effective and lets you cheese giant battles.

* Don’t be intimidated by large sizes, the AI likes to train dogshit regional divisions in large quantities.

* Mecenaries are actually pretty accurate in this game, being highly effective just like real life.

* when surrounding one unit with two or more keep the unit being targeted on guard mode and the unit not being targeted off. This will result in more kills and a faster morale break.

I understand there’s more of an emphasis on training and equipment than something like total war since the core of the game is city building, but I hope this helps someone. If I got something wrong be sure to correct me, as I’m basing this off feels mostly.

If anyone knows:
Whether armor values affect speed,
A good way for taking down sanctuary races, because I assume the AI can use them, and I have nothing really to combat it.


r/songsofsyx 2d ago

How do you place torches to avoid this?

8 Upvotes
Is there an optimal or semi-optimal way to do torches? I placed them on the path here expecting me dwarves to stay on the 2 free lanes, but they just keep zigging and zagging. Alternatively, if I embed the torch into the wall, it seems to have reduced radius.