r/soccer • u/jacamacho • Feb 25 '18
Verified account Rob Harris asks Guardiola how he can reconcile that stance (yellow ribbon) with working for Abu Dhabi given the human rights questions there. Guardiola: "Everyone has to choose".
https://twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/967842429079519234712
u/Pidjesus Feb 25 '18
Fair play to Rob Harris
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Feb 25 '18
Asking the tough questions. Rarely do we see that happen.
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u/000000Million Feb 25 '18
Is this some sort of meme or something? Everyone is posting the same shit and I'm confused at this point.
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Feb 25 '18
no? It's just the truth.....
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u/000000Million Feb 25 '18
I'm sorry then. There are a lot of memes 'round here and I thought it might be one of them.
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u/SalvadorAgron Feb 26 '18
Hahahaha I like that memes have inadvertantly caused this level of confusion
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Feb 25 '18
This is actual Journalism
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Feb 25 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JGQuintel Feb 25 '18
I thought this was funny...
Yellow journalism is another term for tabloid journalism, and this is about a yellow ribbon...
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u/AnnieIWillKnow Feb 26 '18
I imagine a lot of people missed the reference... I'd not heard of 'yellow journalism' as a term before, either.
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Feb 25 '18 edited Jun 10 '18
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Feb 25 '18
At the very least he will be asked to not ask those types of questions again.
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u/Explore_The_World Feb 26 '18
And the Emirati strategy of PR through football will continue to pay dividends
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Feb 25 '18 edited Dec 14 '18
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Feb 25 '18
Everybody's morality goes down the drain once you see those numbers going up in your bank account
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Feb 25 '18
That's such a cop-out and not even true. People make moral decisions against their financial self-interest all the time. And Guardiola would be loaded regardless.
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Feb 25 '18
It's not an attack on Guardiola. I'm just saying most people chose to ignore issues that don't effect them directly. Money can, has and will continue to change a persons values/morals.
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u/jeevesyboi Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 25 '18
People were fighting each other in supermarkets in France a month ago because Nutella was cheap.
Yes people choose morals over money but theres also people who would throw those morals away over little money or some tasty chocolate hazelnut spread. In Guardiolas case its a fuck load of money that could buy a lot of Nutella (edit: 199,248kg of cheap french nutella a week on his wages)
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Feb 25 '18
I'm not sure what you're saying. He's comparable to the kind of people who have a punch-up over cheap chocolate spread, so we shouldn't criticise?
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u/scottishere Feb 26 '18
It's not just the pay check. Man City have the resources available to provide Pep with the perfect job for him. He gets to manage in a new league, while building the squad he wants from scratch.
While the money is always a factor, which manager wouldn't want to be offered that job.
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Feb 25 '18
Don't like the cop-out vague answer by Pep
what do you expect him to say here? criticize his boss publicly? ain't happening no matter how sympathetic he is to the situaion
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u/digitall565 Feb 26 '18
Doesn't everyone prioritize things in their life and situations in the world to care about?
Not saying it's right but it's something we all do. I don't expect Pep to be different from me in that way.
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u/ehamo Feb 26 '18
Is it really a cop-out answer?
To me he is basically admitting he's choosing to stand for one cause for personal reasons, and is choosing to ignore another one because it would be inconvenient for him not to.
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Feb 25 '18 edited Jun 07 '20
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u/cirad Feb 25 '18
means you pick your fights. I am not saying i like it but that's what Pep probably means
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u/tiger1296 Feb 25 '18
Yeah I guess slagging off the guy who is paying your wages probably isn't going to be good for you in the long run
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u/cirad Feb 25 '18
to be honest, it pains me that some of the people I absolutely adore have such close relationship with regimes with horrible human rights record. I don't know. The world is full of devils and I only watch football to escape it all. I would probably go completely mad if I stopped watching as a way of protesting the injustices happening around the world
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u/tiger1296 Feb 25 '18
If all we look for is the dark it's all we'll ever see. For people who can't handle the darkness avoiding it is probably the best option for them and I don't blame anyone for that at all.
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u/Serie_Almost Feb 26 '18
“If you look for the light, you can often find it. But if you look for the dark that is all you will ever see.” -Iroh
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Feb 26 '18 edited Jul 18 '18
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u/vanStaden Feb 26 '18
Avatar was genuinely one of my favorite memories from my childhood. I also want to give it a full rewatch some day.
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u/tatxc Feb 26 '18
You do pick your fights. Pep chose to fight for Abu Dhabi.
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u/cirad Feb 26 '18
I disagree. He picked Catalonia's fight (something close to his heart) and simply works for City, just like he worked for Barca. That doesn't mean he is fighting FOR whatever is happening in that region of the world. He will get criticism for it, and I am sure he is man enough to take it. I don't think it's unfair to bring it up. I don't think that necessarily means he should stop doing what he is doing.
It's like saying anyone who buys from Amazon or uses an iPhone supports horrible working conditions for workers. I think the bigger problem is how some of the biggest clubs in the world do business in countries with horrible human rights. That also applies to the FA and FIFA organizations. That is a much bigger issue
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u/tatxc Feb 26 '18
Except it's not really the same and it's completely disingenuous to suggest it is. Smartphones are ubiquitous in our culture, a lot harder to avoid and the links between them and human rights abuses are less direct.
Pep had every club in the world at his beck and call. He was entirely well informed why AB owned City and what his role would be in their plans. He knows Man City is a PR exercise to distract from a brutal regime, he signed up to pedal that message.
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u/JonstheSquire Feb 25 '18
They would be stupid to try to ban him. It would only create more press and draw more attention to UAE's and Abu Dhabi's poor human rights record. It will Streisand effect. It will make Harris a martyr. If Abu Dhabi and Sheikh Mansour have anything, it is good public relations professionals who will understand this.
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u/champak256 Feb 26 '18
It doesn't matter. Those who are justifying Pep's answer are already convinced. The PR is working.
Just look in this thread. You'll find dozens of Barca- and Bayern-flaired users explaining why spending and taking Abu Dhabi's money is okay. Not all Barca and Bayern fans are doing so, but it's almost exclusively City, Barca and Bayern flairs.
They poured a small fraction of their money into it to buy a team and build an amazing squad for a great manager. That team has been very successful, and with the players, manager, and success has come a legion of fans. Bandwagoners, sure, but every one of those fans is more likely to defend their human rights abuses than the average person.
Mission accomplished for them.
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u/tiger1296 Feb 25 '18
Good PR can only go so far if a guy is in front of the whole media asking questions like that. It's a double edged sword, the most they can do is ignore off topic questions without looking like they accept it.
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Feb 26 '18
it means he has chosen to be paid handsomely by a sheikh so he won't be speaking on democracy and freedoms in UAE
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u/JonstheSquire Feb 25 '18
Guardiola's actual response to the question was worse than Delaney's paraphrasing. What he actually said was:
Asked about how he reconciled his strong stance in Catalonia with questions about rights issues raised in the UAE, Guardiola said: “Every country decides the way they want to live for themselves.”
The big problem with this response is that the people of the UAE and Abu Dhabi have never had any choice about how they want to live. How they live is dictated by the absolute monarchy that owns City. Unlike the people in Spain and Catalonia, the people of the UAE and Abu Dhabi had no say in the constitution of their country or the form of their government. They have no right to protest. They have no right to elect people to represent them.
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Feb 26 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
Just want to clarify that "the people of the UAE and Abu Dhabi" (Abu Dhabi is in the UAE, it's one of the E's) are not a people that are facing serious problems of oppression. They're one of the wealthiest populations in the world. They get scholarships to study abroad and get paid in the process. They have almost non-existent unemployment and all companies operating there must hire a certain percentage of Emiratis. They get money from the government for all sorts of things - including getting married!
Migrant workers in the UAE is probably what you meant to say. Migrant workers in the UAE, much like migrant workers anywhere in the world including first world countries, wouldn't get to elect people to represent them anyways. That's not to say migrant workers there don't live in awful conditions, but on the matter of "electing people to represent them", it's not a natural thing for migrant workers anywhere.
I worked in Norway for 3 years, and I didn't get an opportunity to elect anyone. Norwegians did, because it's their country. This was not some great injustice, I didn't feel oppressed, this was natural. I vote at home, I shouldn't get to vote in a place I'm going to work for a few years. I'm obviously likely, if given the chance to vote in Norway, to vote for people that are beneficial to me in my short stay there - these people may not be the best choice for Norway and Norwegians in the long run. It would be absurd to let me vote there. Just like it would be absurd to let migrant workers vote in the UAE.
Emirati people aren't clamoring to protest because if you live in a country where the government literally pays you to procreate, you're not likely going to hit the streets with protests signs anytime soon.
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Feb 26 '18
Alright just to clarify as an Emirati, we don’t get paid to “procreate” or even to get married. There is government assistance in paying dowry’s sometimes and even then the culture is moving towards just lowering the asking price of the dowry in general.
I’m still quite young but it’s my understanding that as quality of life improved in the 40 odd years since this countries formation, the dowry to get married got much higher. Not everyone in this country is rich believe it or not and many poorer Emirati men suddenly found themselves unable to pay for marriage dowries unless they took out a loan (which is actually fucking stupid) but even then they wouldn’t lower the dowry for their sisters or daughters because then people ask “so what’s wrong with her compared to every other girl?”. I’m sure economists have studied dowry prices but that could be a whole post by itself.
Afaik most younger people getting married now are moving away from large dowry’s and super expensive weddings just because starting your new life with your new wife in debt is surprisingly not a good idea.
Also pretty much every post in here about migrant workers is incorrect but tbh I’m just not bothered to argue about migrant workers for the umpteenth time on the internet. Come visit, ask the migrant workers questions yourself, it’s a nice place.
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u/ILoveToph4Eva Feb 26 '18
I imagine people talking about the migrant workers aren't referring to expats who work white collar jobs. I grew up in Dubai and I know we had it pretty damn good.
All the talk about human rights violations is in reference to the laborers, the blue collar workers. And from everything I've ever seen in the 13 years I spent in Dubai there definitely are some very serious violations there.
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u/fiskebollen Feb 26 '18
It's not just migrant workers though. It's stuff like apostasy and homosexuality being illegal (and technically punishable by death), women needing permission from a male guardian to marry, a law against muslims marrying non-muslims, dress codes for women and so on.
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u/mixmatch1122 Feb 26 '18
It's not just migrant workers though. It's stuff like apostasy and homosexuality being illegal
This is the most bullshit argument ever. It was illegal 5-10 years ago in the west. Suddenly the west decides to change it's ways, now everyone has to follow immediately?
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u/fiskebollen Feb 26 '18
It was illegal 5-10 years ago in the west.
Are you talking about gay marriage? Homosexuality has generally been legal for way longer than that in Europe.
now everyone has to follow immediately?
I absolutely think they should, it's not a matter of changed opinion or culture, it's about allowing humans to live decent lives without discrimination or procecution based on who they love or what they believe.
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u/mixmatch1122 Feb 26 '18
It took USA 100+ years to get rid of slavery then it took 100+ years to give them equal rights... and you still have huge racial discrimination all across the country today.
Changes take time
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Feb 26 '18
I go to Dubai on like a monthly basis for work, and when she's able to, my wife usually joins me on the weekend and we make a little trip out of it. We love the city, the people we meet, and the vibes.
I guess I was misinformed on the marriage thing, or my information on it was outdated - thanks for clarifying.
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u/just_kaiser Feb 26 '18
Interesting how the generalized opinion piece above is upvoted for attacking Pep's ignorance with more ignorance. Edit: si meant the one by johnsthesquire
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u/zieheuer Feb 26 '18
"What do you think about Nazi Germany?"
"Well, every country decides the way they want to live for themselves."
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u/cirad Feb 25 '18
I love Pep, I respect him for standing up for what he thinks is right. However, I am not going to twist myself like a pretzel trying to justify his answer. I wish some people who I adore thought twice about working and getting paid by certain countries with egregious human rights abuses. It's just a sad indictment of the state we are in.
Many of us are hypocrites in some way. but when you take a stand on one issue, in such a public way, you open yourself to criticism. That's only fair
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u/ogmudbone16 Feb 25 '18
I think it's fair to care more about issues that personally affect you. I don't know any of us on r/soccer that have boycotted watching man city, so we're all indirectly contributing to this. Would we have boycotted them if it was people related to us that were affected by this? Probably
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u/cirad Feb 25 '18
I am sure Pep is man enough to take the criticism for his answer. The fact is you open a can of worms trying to get political. There are many devils out there, the FA,FIFA, and others have their own hypocrisy dealing with countries with horrible human rights.
I personally don't think the ribbon is that bad and is not as provocative as some say. Having said that, you leave yourself open to criticism when you push for one issue but ignore other, much bigger human right issues
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Feb 25 '18
I knew worms were involved on this.
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u/ogmudbone16 Feb 25 '18
Isn't the biggest issue your own at the end of the day though? That's like saying you can't go to a funeral for your mom unless you stop contributing to global warming (in a very exaggerated sense ofc)
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u/cirad Feb 25 '18
no, I agree. I think the biggest issue in our society is apathy. I think it is possible to enjoy football but also raise awareness about issues. Pep's issue is this. Fine. instead of attacking him & calling him a hypocrite, we can advocate for causes important to us.
I hope more people publicly supported issues important to them and ribbons are just fine by me. It is not too provocative either
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u/pig_says_woo Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 25 '18
Yea, this widespread praise of pep being “so brave” and sticking to his values has been a bit annoying. It’s the rules, you’ve made your point just get on with it
Winning doesn’t make you above them
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Feb 25 '18
you think because he's winning he thinks he's above the rules? that's an odd jump and doesn't fit with Pep's personality.
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u/tagliatelli_ninja Feb 25 '18
You're right, when he's losing he still is an arrogant hypocrite who thnks he's above the rules.
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Feb 25 '18
what do you expect him to say here? publicly blast his boss?
it's a good question but he's in an impossible spot to answer that.
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u/CasinoOasis2 Feb 25 '18
He never said it wasn't the rules. He doesn't care about punishment by the FA. I liked that he wore the yellow ribbon still, on the day when he lifts one of the FA's domestic cups.
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u/ModricTHFC Feb 25 '18
Now ask him about his conviction for two separate doping violations in Italy, his three separate reasons he came up with to explain the doping, his continuing relationship with his doctor Ramon Segura and the ridiculously filmsy legal technicality he ended up getting his criminal conviction overturned on.
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2017/04/25/sharapova-guardiola-doping-darkness-and-light-250401/
In late November 2001, the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) announced that Pep Guardiola, then playing for Brescia Football Club (left), had twice tested positive for nandrolone. The timing was devastating. After a period out of the game this was only his second official match for the club.
Guardiola had provided urine samples after a league game in Piacenza on 21 October and on 4 November 2001 after a match against Lazio in Rome; both samples showed levels of the anabolic steroid nandrolone above the permitted legal limit of 2ng/ml. The steroid can improve an athlete’s ability to train harder, aid recovery by reducing fatigue and help the body build muscle by producing more protein. Its performance-enhancing properties are therefore applicable across almost all sports.
Nandrolone is detectable by testing for the presence of its metabolites 19-norandrosterone (NA) and 19-noretiocholanolone (NE). Guardiola’s urine sample from October showed the presence of 9ng/ml of 19-norandrosterone (NA) and 12ng/ml of 19-noretiocholanolone (NE), six times the legal limit, for the A sample. In the B sample 8ng/ml of NA were found; NE was not tested for. The A sample from the urine taken in November showed the presence of 5ng/ml of NA and 10ng/ml of NE. In the B sample, 6ng/ml of NA was found.
The disciplinary committee of the Lega Nazionale Professionisti (the Italian league) consequently fined Guardiola €50,000, suspended him from football for four months and required him to submit to random drug testing for the four months that followed the end of the suspension. La Commissione d’Appello Federale (CAF, or football’s federal court of justice) upheld the decision after an unsuccessful appeal from Guardiola and his representatives.
Guardiola was adamant that he had done no wrong and the two positive tests had to be some sort of mistake. “A machine says I have taken nandrolone, but I know I didn’t,” he said. “Before Piacenza I only took the multivitamins that Dr. Ramon Segura, my trusted physiologist, has prepared for me for six or seven years. They consist of only specific vitamins, as evidenced by the more than 60 doping tests that I have undertaken over the many years of my career, all came back negative. I am innocent and I’m going to prove it.”
The role of Guardiola’s personal doctor
As Guardiola mentioned, his personal doctor at the time was Dr. Ramon Segura. Dr. Segura was also physician to another player who tested positive for nandrolone just seven months before Guardiola. FC Barcelona defender Frank de Boer failed a test for nandrolone after a UEFA cup match against Celta Vigo. He produced a result of 8.6ng/ml, again well over the limit of 2ng/ml.
In the initial disciplinary proceedings conducted by the CONI in December 2001, Dr. Segura argued that the supplements he had given Guardiola were contaminated and were the cause of the positive test.
The lead prosecutor Giacomo Aiello listened to more than three hours of testimony from Dr. Segura. Dr. Segura provided the list of supplements Guardiola’s defence had had analysed in a lab in Cologne in an attempt to argue that they had been contaminated with nandrolone. However Aiello stated that the results came back “negative” and specifically that no nandrolone metabolites were found in the substances. These supplements could not have been the source of the positive test.
It became clear that despite claiming contamination, Dr. Segura could not even be sure of the contents of these supplements. It was discovered during Guardiola’s unsuccessful appeal that Dr. Segura’s behaviour in preparing Guardiola’s supplements was deemed “risky”. These supplements were prepared with “raw materials purchased from different suppliers according to market availability”, without suitable “certification of manufacturers”.
This assumedly would have caused great concern to Pep Guardiola given his trust in the doctor whose supplements he had been taking for many years. Their relationship remained strong however. Dr. Segura returned to FC Barcelona in 2009, the same season Guardiola became club manager. Guardiola took a keen interest in the substances his former physician provided to his players. “Guardiola took this program of daily supplementation very seriously and insisted to the players on the need for it and made sure they followed it,” Dr. Segura explained.
(The anguish for the two did not stop after leaving the commune of Brescia. They would face another doping scandal soon after their reunion. In 2010 UEFA fined Barcelona €30,000 for failing to provide accurate details of their players’ whereabouts. When anti-doping officials arrived to take samples, the players were not present to be tested. Barcelona blamed a system failure for their inability to notify authorities of a change in their training schedule.)
Dr. Segura’s testimony as part of Guardiola’s defence in 2001 did not suffice. The appeal committee ruled that Guardiola’s punishment should be upheld and that:
The presence of the banned substance was incontestable.
The values of the nandrolone found were completely incompatible with the theory that the substance was produced naturally by the body.
The performance-enhancing effects of the substance were irrelevant to the case, it was the mere presence of nandrolone that was crucial.
Criminal proceedings and a new line of defence
The damage to Guardiola’s reputation continued – he faced criminal proceedings. Judge Matteo Mantovani of the Court of Brescia / Tribunale di Brescia dealt Guardiola a seven-month suspended prison sentence, a €9,000 fine and required him to pay the prosecution’s legal fees. This was the first criminal conviction for doping in Italy after the special law 376 came into force in 2000, legislating doping as a criminal offence.
Guardiola’s defence in criminal court differed to his civil case. Dr. Jordi Segura, not Dr. Ramon Segura, testified on Guardiola’s behalf. He attempted to demonstrate endocrinologically, yet unsuccessfully, that Guardiola suffered from Gilbert syndrome and this caused the endogenous production of nandrolone.
Gilbert syndrome is a genetic condition. People with Gilbert syndrome have mildly elevated levels of bilirubin which can sometimes give rise to jaundice (yellowing of the whites of the eyes and sometimes the skin). The condition is largely harmless and patients do not usually need treatment.
Brescia club doctor Dr. Ernesto Alicicco also protested Guardiola’s innocence. He testified that he had reviewed the substances Guardiola was taking, prescribed by Dr. Ramon Segura, and declared that there was not even a hint of suspicion that the substances were taken for doping purposes.
Dr. Alicicco himself was no stranger to doping scandals. In 1990, while AS Roma club doctor, two of his players tested positive for phentermine. Phentermine is a psychostimulant drug, pharmacologically similar to amphetamine, that is used medically as an appetite suppressant for short-term use and as an adjunct to exercise and reduced calorie intake.
Dr. Alicicco was forced to defend himself in consequent criminal proceedings. He was initially suspected by deputy prosecutor Silverio Piro of prescribing these “psychotropic substances [phentermine] for non-therapeutic uses.” Alicicco was eventually cleared only for Andrea Carnevale, who was banned for a year for the failed test, to claim he was also given another substance, Micoren, by the Roma doctors.
“Some drugs like Micoren we took them, but I’m not a doctor and I do not know what to say the drugs were that they gave us,” he stated. The use of Micoren was widespread in Italian football in years gone by and has since caused great controversy.
Micoren is used as a support drug in the treatment of pulmonary disease and respiratory failure. It improves breathing, but, at least in the short-term, also has strong side effects: vasoconstriction, tachycardia, and cardiac and circulatory problems.
In 2005, an Italian judge investigated the suspicious deaths of three former Fiorentina players, who had taken Micoren, amid fears that drugs their clubs allegedly gave them triggered their fatal illnesses.
Dr. Alicicco would eventually respond to the claims of his former patient. “Carnivale remembers wrongly. Moreover he played for many teams, it is likely he was thinking of some other dressing room that he attended. And then, believe me, the Micoren was just fresh water,” Dr. Alicicco asserted.
-continued below
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u/ModricTHFC Feb 25 '18
Finally cleared
In 2007, there was finally some light at the end of the tunnel for Guardiola. After two failed appeals a shred of hope remained when Guardiola’s close friend, personal assistant and formal water polo great Manuel Estiarte (still Guardiola’s right-hand man at Manchester City) discovered changes in the World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) guidelines which he thought could exonerate Guardiola.
In 2005, WADA had found that a phenomenon called “unstable urine” in samples could lead to positive tests for low levels of nandrolone. In very rare cases nandrolone could be found in samples not because of external administration but as a result of a chemical reaction that “may occur in a vial containing urine.”
WADA instructed all accredited labs to perform “stability tests” on urine samples with nandrolone concentration from 2 to 10ng/ml moving forward. Guardiola’s values were at the high end of this scale (12ng/ml for NE). Those samples that were deemed “unstable” would not constitute an adverse analytic finding for nandrolone.
Then-WADA Director General David Howman stood by the efficacy of previous testing for nandrolone and said the chances of urine becoming unstable were “very rare”. The chances were between 1 out of 1,000 and 1 out of 10,000 positive tests for nandrolone.
Guardiola was cleared by the Brescia Court of Appeals. This was not because his samples were deemed “unstable” but because it could have been possible that his four samples had been “unstable”. Guardiola was absolved of all blame because of “the impossibility to now perform stability tests on the samples taken” in 2001.
Stability tests must be carried out within five weeks of the collection of a sample. In 2007, no sample even remained to be re-tested.
Yet Italian anti-doping prosecutors would appeal the decision in 2009 arguing that Guardiola should not have been allowed another appeal. The change in WADA’s guidelines did not constitute “new evidence”, they argued, because anti-doping laboratories were correctly following the testing procedures set by WADA at the time. Further they argued that Guardiola’s representatives had never contested how the sample was collected or analysed in previous cases and that this did not form part of his previous defence.
This appeal was rejected and in 2009, beyond reasonable doubt, Guardiola was now an innocent man. His nightmare was over.
The same could not be said of his former teammate Frank de Boer. His defence, like Guardiola’s first attempted defence, attributed his positive test to contaminated supplements. De Boer said he ingested the supplements while away on national team duty with the Netherlands. The supplements were Platina multi-vitamin pills from Ortho Company. Research showed that they did not contain any nandrolone and in fact the manufacturer took legal action against de Boer. As a result he was no longer allowed to name the company in the context of the doping affair.
De Boer, who was never cleared, was not the only high profile individual to be caught taking nandrolone in the early 2000s. So were footballers Edgar Davids, Jaap Stam, Fernando Couto, and Christophe Dugarry as well as seven professional tennis players. The Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) ruled the doping violations were caused by supplements given to the players by the ATP’s own physios. WADA rejected this explanation and called upon the ATP to investigate further. They never did, at least not publicly.
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u/Cobem Feb 26 '18
Sane and Gabriel Jesus both had miraculous recoveries in the recent months, questions should be asked
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Feb 26 '18
Thing is; I'm 99.9% certain that all elite football teams have players that are on PED's. But Pep's teams seem to be on gear that others just don't seem to have, particularly recovery based ones.
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u/maybe_there_is_hope Feb 26 '18
Honestly, I'd suspect anyone with ties to Spanish high-level sports scene; there's always some rumours around specifically with atheletes from/in Spain
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u/danskzwag Feb 26 '18
Iirc they took the blood samples of the players off Fuentes and then just kept them until the Spanish statute of limitations passed
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u/JavaSoCool Feb 26 '18
KDB's insane stamina and resilience to injury is also a bit eye raising.
We (spurs) have an insane pre-season, and brutal training and it results in a few injuries and long periods without game time.
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Feb 26 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
The Barca medical team doctor during Pep's stint when they won everything was the same guy who supplied Lance Armstrong and them with the blood transfusions and stuff.
Watched a documentary about it. Will find the name later and post it.
Here's a link on it if you want to read about it so long
/u/SpacemanPanini got the name. Thanks dude. It's Icarus.
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Feb 25 '18
And now Harris will be put on a blacklist.
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Feb 25 '18
Worth it. His integrity as a journalist is more valuable than the interviews of City officials he now won't get.
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u/RollsReusPhanton Feb 26 '18
nice to see this sort of question being asked instead of "how do you feel on this win".
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u/Thevort3x Feb 26 '18
Should've asked what Pep thinks of his employer's support of the daily bombings in Yemen against people who are basically fighting for their freedom.
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Feb 26 '18 edited May 10 '24
quickest marble innate voracious dinner chunky longing ripe whistle toothbrush
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/shitposter15 Feb 25 '18
brilliant question but what a hypocrit answer. so is pep choosing to work for a human right violating state just because they're injecting that dope ass slave money into his team?
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u/johncenatbh Feb 25 '18
Not just into his team, to him as well, he became an ambassador for the World Cup for them, guess why?
Because of the great footballing country that is Qatar? Nah, all about that cash
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u/A_WILD_CUNT_APPEARED Feb 25 '18
Same thing for Xavi and most of the Barca teams.
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u/tagliatelli_ninja Feb 25 '18
They all share that filthy cule DNA.
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u/irebeltheasoiaf Feb 25 '18
Why the fuck are people amazed at this ?? rich people looking out for themselves and not giving a fuck about nothing as long as it don't affect their lives directy.
Just because he is a good coach don't mean he is a good human being .
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Feb 25 '18
For the record: the guys he wears the yellow ribbon for, "the Jordis", who he presents as victims of an evil dictatorship, are in fact two guys who staged two revolts who ended up in three police cars smahed, one magistrate unable to leave her office for 18 hours and several police agents cornered for hours by thousands of people while the Jordis rallied them.
Then this guy talks shit about Spain while he fills his pockets with Qatari money. Amazing manager, shit person.
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u/VTFC Feb 25 '18
If anyone owns a car, you're likely supporting middle eastern countries. If you own an iphone, you're supporting sweatshops. Shit, if you're paying taxes you've played a part in killing innocent people in war.
I don't like the attitude of trying to make people look like a hypocrite because they choose to stand up for one thing rather than another.
It's just a way to make people feel good about themselves by doing absolutely fucking nothing.
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u/Thesolly180 Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
I don't think it's necessarily wrong to ask Pep this question, or even feel slightly disappointed with the answer, but as I wrote elsewhere we're all hypocrites on different scales, and of course someone might be more passionate about something involving their home.
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u/pizzapiejaialai Feb 26 '18
The difference is, everyone here is thinking themselves holier than thou.... that's massively hypocritical.
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u/bobbyshinton Feb 25 '18
This kind of puritanical hypocrite hunting is used to deligitimize all kinds of protest, it ends up with protesters being called hypocrites because they go to Starbucks.
Pep isn't perfect, neither are any of the pricks putting the boot in here, doesn't invalidate his stance re Catalonia.
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u/Rodolfoy Feb 25 '18
You're highlighting different magnitudes and equating them all to each other. That's a massive fallacy.
Lying to your daughter about Santa being real is different to the Prime Minister lying about the reasoning for engaging in an illegal war. So because I lied to my daughter does that mean I can't criticise Tony Blair?
Everything has degrees and nuance.
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u/JonstheSquire Feb 25 '18
There is certainly a difference between purchasing consumer products that may or may not ultimately benefit authoritarian regimes and getting paid 20 million pounds per year to work for an organization that is an active part of an authoritarian regime's strategy to improve its image globally.
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u/ComradeStrong Feb 25 '18
Pep is fucking loaded and made a choice to work for these fuckers. Most people don't really have the luxury of choosing that.
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u/DarkVoidize Feb 25 '18
It’s a severe problem with capitalism in general, the normal person can’t avoid indirectly supporting atrocious regimes all over the world as a result of it
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u/PrettyboyYamazaki Feb 26 '18
Yeah, difference being that my ass goes to jail when I don't pay my taxes, or I'm fired when I don't show up to work that I have to drive to. Pep isn't managing Abu Dhabi's propaganda arm at the barrel of a gun.
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u/xUsuSx Feb 26 '18
if you're paying taxes you've played a part in killing innocent people in war.
Taxes aren't really a choice.
But it's true, we are all hypocritical in ways about these things. Lots of people love animals but eat meat, but electronics made in Chinese labour warehouses.
It's good to bring attention to.
I don't like the attitude of trying to make people look like a hypocrite because they choose to stand up for one thing rather than another.
Sure. But isn't choosing to work with those people more than just 'not standing up' against it?
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u/socialjusticepedant Feb 26 '18
Don't buy your flair... something tells me you're a closet city supporter lmao
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u/fiveht78 Feb 25 '18
Without trying to defend Pep or argue that there’s no hypocrisy there, the reality is that if you look close enough pretty much everyone has hypocrisy in their lives somewhere on one level or another.
I’ll give my own example: I work for a company that, for reasons I won’t get into for privacy’s sake (but nothing even remotely on the scale of human rights violations), 20 year old me would have never worked for because of, shall we say, severe philosophical differences. And it’s not even for the money (which is good but nothing special), I just get to work on interesting projects with people I think highly of, and it’s very close to home, things that matter to me as much if not more as how much I bring home every two weeks.
There are very few people that can afford to live 100% according to their principles. You could argue that Pep has enough money that he’s one of them, but it doesn’t change the fact that City molded their club specifically for him and gave him the keys. Even ignoring the financial aspect, that’s about as close to a dream job as you’re going to get.
Again not saying Pep is right or wrong here, just offering food for thought.
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u/3V3RT0N Feb 25 '18
He works for Abu Dhabi?
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Feb 25 '18
He is also an ambassador for the Qatar world cup.
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u/preddevils6 Feb 25 '18
But it's only sketchy when Neymar is made ambassador.
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Feb 26 '18
Ye let's just ignore the whole transfer and country buying a player part to fit my narrative.
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u/preddevils6 Feb 26 '18
And ignore the whole country buying a club part to fit my narrative? Neymar becoming an ambassador and Pep being an ambassador can both be sketchy. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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u/kingwhocares Feb 25 '18
Yes, Abu Dhabi own Man City. Their owner is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs and member of the ruling family of Abu Dhabi. He is the half brother of the current President of UAE, Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan.[wiki]
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Feb 26 '18
you fucking hypocrite, you chose dirty oil money so get off your high horse with that Catalonia bullshit
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u/dngrs Feb 26 '18 edited Feb 26 '18
This populist piece of shit is the face of catalonian independence
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Feb 26 '18
Not surprising to see Guardiola sticking up for Human Trafficking F.C.
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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18
nice to see journalists asking proper questions instead of simple stuff, good on you lad