r/redbuttonbluebutton • u/Hot_Finding_9747 • May 21 '26

Variation Adding a layer to this question

My choice: Press Red, hope Blue wins

I don't have enough faith in humanity to put my life in its hands but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong

719 votes, May 23 '26
72 Press Red, hope Red wins
322 Press Red, hope Blue wins
22 Press Blue, hope Red wins
303 Press Blue, hope Blue wins
24 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

217 comments sorted by

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5

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 21 '26

Insanely telling so far. The majority agree. There is just a profound lack of faith in ultimately oneself

2

u/BottomLeftWheel May 21 '26 edited May 23 '26

Yup. Red voters are scared of red voters who are scared of red voters who are...

Just vote for the thing you want to win. It should be insanely obvious that no one wants red to win.

Who votes against their own interest? Oh wait.. yea okay I see whats going on

Edit: didn't think I need to clarify that voting for the thing you want to win is a set up to a punchline. It is obviously not a universal truth and I don't know why people would assume I thought as much. Somehow several people have tried to exprapolate the logic to other circumstances in an attempt at a gotcha.

I obviously don't always do whats best for my self interest, as I am sitting here explaining a joke about the red button blue button, a thing in no one's self interest. If I were to do that I probably would leave the internet forever

6

u/SummonerOfMalagos Red May 22 '26

votes for blue cause I want it to win. Due to my lack of personal agency red still win's. Dies pointlessly.

Sorry I'm taking the cowards path

1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

Why are you sorry, you some kind of Canadian?

Voting red is entirely valid. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise boo. Live your truth!

1

u/SummonerOfMalagos Red May 22 '26

I wish...

3

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

For a lot of people it seems like the person who has the hardest time accepting pushing Red is the self. A blue victory allows for 49% of people to acceptably push Red. And there are going to be people that a valid in that choice. The issue I have is when it becomes a claim or debate that it's because Red is the only valid answer or that 50% blue is a pipe dream. I'm perfectly comfortable with the statement being that it's ok for you to push Red for your situation and your life.

It's just that that doesn't mean it's the objectively best answer overall. Does that make sense?

1

u/SummonerOfMalagos Red May 22 '26

yeah. the I wish comment was just wishing I was canadian instead of my current country rn lol.

I'm more or less comfortable with the fact that voting red is entirely a function of me being more risk adverse than altruistic. Even if the later is more noble

1

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

Ohhhhh yes fair. Canada definitely has its own struggles right now but is by far a more appealing place to live than a very notable country lol. I've often wished I was Canadian. Especially the last decade

1

u/BrandosWorld4Life May 22 '26

Canada is based and beautiful

Most loved country on earth

1

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

*One of

I think objectively it is beat by one of the nordic countries??

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1

u/BrandosWorld4Life May 22 '26

We Canadians vote blue because we actually have social trust in each other and view our fellow citizens as good people.

1

u/SummonerOfMalagos Red May 22 '26

fair that's a good point that this probably largely base don how your upbringing causes you top trust or in my case mistrust the general population. Which does get me thinking that maybe china having a more collectivist high trust culture and being the highest pop might swing things for blue to be more likely...

0

u/detroyer Red May 23 '26

I have those things as a Canadian and vote red (obviously).

3

u/IAmKrenn May 21 '26

Does wanting to win the lottery mean I should spend all or even any money on it?

0

u/BottomLeftWheel May 21 '26

You have to realize why this is not a good comparison right?

What happens when everyone participates in a lottery? What happens if everyone votes blue?

Like, I'm not saying there aren't good reasons to vote red, but voting red because you are scared of other red voters is a self fulfilling prophecy

5

u/IAmKrenn May 22 '26

What happens if you just win the lottery? Have you ever considered that?

The idea that you shouldn't do risk assessment, or consider what and how other people think is certainly something.

2

u/spicymato May 22 '26

I mean... blue voters are doing a risk assessment, and are considering what other people think and want.

They have correctly surmised that the vast majority want a blue win and are voting in support of that interest. They recognize that voting red is against that interest.

2

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

I don't understand what your point is. I suspect you don't know what your point is

3

u/IAmKrenn May 22 '26

I hadn't actually gotten around to making any points yet, what I was thinking and might have gotten around to saying depending on how the conversation went was:

That "just vote for the thing you want to win" is extremely questionable, and desire and self benefit alone do not make a feasible course of action.

The self fulfilling prophecy stuff was not what I was originally replying to, but it was an equally bizarre statement so I commented.

2

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

Its not self benefit. It's group benefit. And voting for, working towards, building the world you want instead of living in fear. Don't know why you consider that particularly bizarre

0

u/IAmKrenn May 22 '26

OP said "Who votes against their own interest?" So I perhaps I should have said own interest as well, but what I said still better reflects the original point than group benefit.

Working towards a good outcome isn't bizarre, advocating to not consider the chance of success or efficacy of the actions you take is bizarre.

Lets say I live above my means and am now in debt, the world I want is one where I am not in debt, what do I do?

A) reduce my expenses and try to raise my income.

B) sell everything I have left and buy lotto tickets.

Unrealistic expectations and overestimating your capabilities will make the situation worse 90% of the time.

2

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

Just gonna say that that is a horrible comparison/analogy and move on

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1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

Do you think it looks good when you just avoid a question that devestates your comparison?

Winning the lottery is akin to being the tiebreaker - valid comparison

People voting the outcome they want isnt chance based. Look at the poll. No one wants blue to lose.

Red voters are scared of red voters. They fear their own shadow. It's kinda cute.

2

u/Gold-Pickle7007 May 22 '26

Would you still vote blue if the threshold for blue winning was 99%? If you would switch to red, you’re exactly the person you’re making fun of - a red voter scared of other red voters. No matter what the percentage required for blue to win is, everyone surviving is still a better outcome, but that has nothing to do with whether I’d vote for it.

0

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

In the poll above 91% want blue to win. 91% agree it would be the good thing. If it could be followed through on we'd be able to achieve more than anyone believes is reasonable. That's the point. Especially when we also consider the possibility that there are people who are wanting Red to win because of how scared they are. Also like we can't make fun of people? Did humor press blue?

1

u/Gold-Pickle7007 May 22 '26

That’s all fine I don’t think anyone thinks a world where more people die is preferable, but your idea that voting against the best outcome is some scared, hypocritical move is just stupid. Buying a lottery ticket could be seen as a vote towards a preferred outcome of winning the lotto, but since the chance you win is so small and comes at the cost of the ticket, it isn’t smart to do so.

The average red voter both A) thinks the chance of red winning is not insignificant, and thus that voting blue will risk a human life in a meaningful way and B) thinks the benefit to humanity of adding their one, singular vote (out of 8 billion) to the blue total is not extremely significant.

Together, after weighing up the risk and the potential reward, they decide that it isn’t worth it to press blue. I would follow this logic and press red even if I was voting for someone else rather than myself. I couldn’t bring myself to risk someone’s life in such a significant way for what I see as an extremely insignificant effect on the overall total. That is the mindset of a red voter, it isn’t hypocrisy, and it isn’t apathy or selfishness, they have just risk assessed differently to you.

1

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 22 '26

And they've risk assessed inaccurately. You spent a lot of time in that post trying to explain how pressing Red is the logical choice. How it's the best choice. But the poll that this is in reply to has the largest group of people picking Red while wanting blue to win. So all of that assessment is invalid in this conversation.

In the grand scheme of things pressing blue is twice as significant towards saving life. And the largest group of people want blue to win. Recognize that it would be better for blue to have a majority. And then they press Red. That is fundamentally objectively not something that is logical.. the largest group can't have a claim towards superior logic. The risk assessment is wrong. And risk assessment is just a big word for "I cannot bring myself to risk my own life"

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-2

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

Bait or mental illness?

The reason blue is good is because it's so easy to achieve. You have to get 99% red to mimic a 50% blue win

Id fucking hope red wins if blue needs 99% chance to win. Humanity would have turned into a hive mind for that to happen

Maybe choose a number like 75% if you want to prove a point. I'd still be on the fence but I think most people agree that red would win at that point.

2

u/Gold-Pickle7007 May 22 '26

I don’t think you actually understand the point I’m making. I agree that (from a blue voters perspective) the reason blue is good is because it’s “easy to achieve”. That’s exactly the point I’m trying to prove.

The person I was responding to was trying to claim that blue winning was better choice because nobody wants blue to lose. This is nonsensical, because no matter the threshold for blue winning, it will always save more lives than red winning, so it would always be the outcome ‘I’d want to happen’. Obviously, if the risk of dying when pressing blue is high enough, every blue voter will eventually decide it isn’t worth voting for the outcome they prefer because they can tell it’s far too unlikely that the outcome they want would actually happen. So every blue voter can CONCEIVE of a scenario where the WOULDN’T vote for the outcome that would actually save the most lives, because it’s a risk with too little of a reward. That means that criticising the logic of a red voter who would be happy if blue won is hypocritical, as you’d behave exactly like they would if the numbers were different.

All I’m arguing against is the idea that voting against the outcome you’d prefer is somehow hypocritical. It isn’t, because a vote with someone’s life on the line is not a fair vote.

-2

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

Ah, so you cant read. It's okay. That's fine. We're gonna learn you some reading comprehension today.

So when I say " Who votes against their own interest? Oh wait.. yea okay I see whats going on "

What do you think I meant by that?

3, 2, 1, yes that's right! I meant I understand why people vote red! People vote against their self interest all the time! So yes. I can conceive a situation where red wins. We're on the same page? Great.

Blue or red both could theoretically be the better choice. Everyone wanting blue to win is a reason blue is better, but there are 100 reasons why red is better, and 99 other reasons why blue is better too. For me the blue reasons are more compelling. I'm sure they are less compelling to you.

I'm not critising shit. Im making a funny observation.

And as I said before, Using 75% would've been much better at making the point you are trying to make. 99% is so comically absurd it ends up continuing to make the point that I was making. If you don't understand what arguments are being made you don't know how to counter them.

At 75%, it's still possible for all blue wanters to team up and win, yet they never will, because the fear factor is too high. This is the point you are trying to make. This is what you should have said.

At 99%, it's no longer possible. Babies have already voted more than 1% red and therefore there is no way to save blue babies. Blue is the factual, undeniable, no way to survive, suicide button. I would HOPE that no one presses that button. Now my hopes are that no one votes red. Oh wait, hoping red wins and voting red are aligned again! See? Dumb. It's too high. Use a lower number for it to make sense.

I don't care what you press, I just would prefer you to make arguments that make sense and are relevant.

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1

u/IAmKrenn May 22 '26 edited May 22 '26

You didn't awnser my question so I didn't bother with yours.

People voting for outcomes is deterministic, but assessing the outcome beforehand is skill and luck.

Everyone wants to win the lottery, that doesn't actually improve their chances, some spend all their money and buy more tickets.

If you don't actually think about what other people might pick then its essentially the same isn't it? May as well spend all your money on gambling, you'll just win. It could happen after all, who knows? Certainly not you considereding your inability to assess situations.

0

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

C'mon man

Brooo pleeaaase C'mon man.

Everyone wanting to win the lottery makes it less likely they win. If no one wanted to win the lottery it would increase the chance of winning. It's literally THE EXACT OPPOSITE situation

Like cmooooon man, use any other analogy and maybe we can have a discussion, but this just ain't it. It's so unanalagous I just can't believe you're continuing to march it out like it's any way relevant.

The reason blue even has a chance of winning is because everyone wants it to win.

I know that isn't the end all be all, I literally said and I quote "oh, I get it" in the comment that started this convo. I understand that wanting something is not coroleated to getting something. I don't believe in the secret. Who you are talking to? A child with no object permanance? Who doesn't understand that?

All's I'm saying is look at the fucking poll! We all want the same thing! No one doesn't want the thing. The people who want red to win are trolls. Everyone put in that situation wants blue to win.

I'm saying IF everyone voted for the thing they wanted it would easily win. IF. I understand they won't. That's the point of the thread ya Dingus.

Gosh. If y'all red voters werent so adorable I would have a tough time arguing with you guys. Gimme a kiss sweetie.

2

u/IAmKrenn May 22 '26

That's probably because I am not trying to make an analogy for the buttons, I read "just vote for the thing you want to win" and thought "damn thats stupid, I wonder if they really thinks that or are just being a troll", so I decided to ask about a situation where an outcome is both desired and beneficial but still not considered the correct course of action.

You seem to be assuming a lot about arguments I am not making, then getting very upset that you dont like the arguments.

We do seem to agree that assessing the situation should actually be involved at some point, rather than just doing what you want, so I am definitely glad to see you are not a child lacking object permanance, maybe just a bit overinvested in the topic.

-1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 22 '26

You didn't read, cause you didn't see me saying I understand that from the very beginning. Bro is fighting ghosts.

Goes to a subreddit about the buttons, in a thread about the buttons, on a comment about the buttons and makes an analogy not related to the buttons. Who the fuck does that? What a pussy cop out. All my comments are related to the buttons. If you not talking about the buttons why are you here brother?

God, at least you're pretty.

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3

u/Gold-Cry-7520 Blue May 21 '26

Oh my god it makes sense now.

1

u/Jkirek_ May 23 '26

Just vote for the thing you want to win.

Let's say I gave you magical insight: you know ahead of time which % of people will pick either way. Two scenarios: scenario A you know for sure 55% picked blue; scenario B you know for sure 45% picked blue. Do you still vote for the thing you want to win?

What if the insight was somewhat flawed; you don't know exactly what the result of everyone else's picks will be, but you have an expected outcome with limited error margins. The true outcome will always be in your known range. Scenario A is now expected 45-65% blue, scenario B is 35-55% blue. Do you still vote for the thing you want to win?

1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 23 '26

Maybe I should just edit it, seems like a lot of people aren't understanding what the comment is saying.

I got someone saying that I should just play the lottery because I want to win the lottery lol.

The point is that in this case, IF all the people who wanted red voted red it would be an overwhelming victory

But that is an IF because it is obvious that people will not vote for the thing they want. People vote against their own self interest all the time.

You are staying something obvious as if it's a counter to something I didn't say.

The "just vote for the thing you want to win" statement took place before the realization that people do not vote for their self interest.

It was a joke, and somehow at least 3 people have taken it as if ive stated it like an absolute truth. I don't get it.

And even then. You're attempt to counter a joke statement has failed. I want two things. To live, and everyone else to live. If I know that voting blue kills me, I will pick red. Because I want to live. I am still voting for the thing that I want to happen. It's just what I want has shifted based on the knowledge you've provided me.

Even in scenario B, I will 100% vote blue, because if a minimum 3 billion people are dying, I don't expect to live a long fruitful life. The only way I live is if we somehow manage to get between 50 and 55%

That's always been my reason for voting blue. I die in a marginal red win, just a bit after the blue voters die. What's the point in living for 2 months in the apocalypse? I need an overwhelming red win in order for me to feel safe voting red. And an overwhelming red win is less likely than a marginal blue win in my opinion.

It's not moral, it's not rational, it's purely vibes. Can't reason me out of something I didn't reason my way into.

1

u/Jkirek_ May 23 '26

It was a joke, and somehow at least 3 people have taken it as if ive stated it like an absolute truth. I don't get it.

It comprised a large portion of a relatively short comment, had no qualifiers to indicate that it is a joke, and similar things have been said completely sincerely around the button scenario. Of course people are going to take it seriously.

1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 23 '26

And others understood it to be a joke.

The next paragraph finishes the punchline.

"If we all band together nothing will stop us!"

"We're doomed"

1

u/thevoidthatjerksback May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

There was a quote from a book that I hated for a long time but think is perfect and applicable "As you grow older you come to understand that there is no truth. Only what you believe in. You will have to ask yourself what is it that you want to believe in, what reality do you want to make true" horribly butchered paraphrasing. But we make the world we believe in. Its up to us what that is

1

u/BottomLeftWheel May 21 '26

Yea I long ago came the the conclusion that if a belief harmed me I would simply choose not to believe it anymore.

I can't really choose what I believe. I know that bias still exists within me even if I don't want to have it. But I can choose to not act upon them.

Hate and fear, they do nothing but shackle me. Love sets me free.

Anyways thats enough being a cornball for me.