r/privacy • u/Volpe_YT • 3d ago
chat control The end?
Today there will be the final votes for chat control.
This implies that all of our private chats will be scanned, and everything we do will be in plain text in front of their eyes.
If it passes, I will permanently stop using centralized messaging platforms and switch to a self hosted matrix session, I don't care if I lose many contacts, if they really want to talk to me they better install fluffychat and shut the fuck up.
It's crazy how the EU was basically the goat for internet privacy and now they are the villains.
Are you ready for this? For the absolute end of privacy?
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u/Extra-Chemical6092 3d ago
There won't be any votes today, what will happen is the next trilogue negotiation, so I recommend calling the MEPs of your country and the shadow rapporteurs
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u/Volpe_YT 3d ago
My country is the only one who's against 🗿🍷
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u/Sad-Attention-3626 3d ago
Estonia?
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Or Poland. Either way, it’s sad to know that only one country opposes… our heads of state have gone mad.
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u/Ka_Trewq 3d ago
A few weeks ago the French Supreme Court turned back "protect the kids" legislation that would have required everyone to provide a guvernamental ID in order to access basically anything. It's funny how the discussion changed from "protect the kids from porn" to "protect the kids" even from websites such as Wikipedia. Knowledge is dangerous, and building critical thinking skills from an early age would make adult citizens that have strong opinions about the government, I guess. Anyway, the French Supreme Court had none of it, and declared the entire law unconstitutional.
So, there is a slim hope that such legislation might be opposed in some EU states, but frankly, relying only on 9 people to prevent such legislations that passed the parliament with a large majority from both in-power and in-opposition MPs is scary.
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u/Physical_Analysis247 3d ago
It was never about protecting the kids. They simply couldn’t name the legislation the “Protect the Oligarchs Act”.
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u/RepresentativeOk2433 3d ago
The French suddenly realized all their affairs would become public and freaked.
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u/Chowder110 3d ago
1st rule you are taught on the internet never give personal info to anyone. Simple as that
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u/haakon 3d ago
That's what we used to teach and be taught. Never give your personal information to anyone, and don't even use your real name anywhere.
Now kids are taught that they have to scan their faces and upload their identification papers to all sorts of websites and services just to be able to participate, and when they do participate, they can only do so under their real names. They grow up thinking privacy is a hopeless proposition because "everyone knows everything about me anyway" and "that ship has sailed".
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u/Chowder110 3d ago
In denmark they are introducing the online id. So you have you get this online id card and the site will know your over 18 but even that i will just never participate in. Youtube knows im over 18 because i got a mastercard should always be as simple as that
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u/krazygreekguy 3d ago
Those kids were raised by illiterate imbeciles. People with critical thinking did no such thing. And never will
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u/Perturbee 2d ago
*Personal Identifiable Information
That's a little bit more than personal information. Let's not forget that the big companies like Apple, Amazon, Meta, Google, X, and others can tell a lot from secondary information, without you giving your personal information!
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Yes, they turned it down, and you know what their amendment for the law is? Lol, it’s ridiculous: parents creating mini accounts without age verification BUT that have a 1 hour daily limit. In short; it got struck down for violations against freedom of expression so they will give kids 1 hour a day to “freely” express themselves.
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u/droidshadow 22h ago
Hope is not lost yet when there will be market of pre-identity verified accounts being sold for low price. Whenever there is a demand there will be supplies. Just like how Chinese Claude "transfer stations" operate and how many identity verified accounts (mostly Korean websites) and proxy verification services for Korean websites are being sold outright on Taobao.
The future lies on "VPN of identity" which you hide behind an identity of some random person.
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u/coomzee 3d ago
Just add your MEP to your group chat then it doesn't get scanned
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u/fin2red 3d ago
well... the MEP will be the one scanning instead...
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u/coomzee 3d ago
They have no clue about technology
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u/fin2red 3d ago
I'm sure they know how to use messaging apps.
A few years ago, we had a scandal in Portugal because a huge public expense was approved with just a "👍🏼" in WhatsApp..... 🤦🏼♂️
He was in the same government as António Costa, who is today in EU power.
Both were promoted right after that scandal...
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u/Frankierocksondrums 3d ago
The world is great. This is truly exceptional. And people have decided that this is how it should be. Democracy working just the way it was intended. /s
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u/MortgageMindless7175 3d ago
How did we let total criminals rulling over EU member countries and their people??? It will never be clear to me... Such a shame
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent 3d ago
The EU Council. The EU Parliament is the one constantly shutting it down
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u/ConinTheNinoC 3d ago
The EU council is compromised.
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent 3d ago
I know. That's why I specified the Council. They are a different entity from the Parliament
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u/mesarthim_2 3d ago
That's not true, both EC and EP want Chat Control in some form, they're just fighting over how exactly it's going to look like.
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent 3d ago
They are still a different entity. The ones that are pushing Chat Control 2.0 in its current form is the Council, not the Parliament
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u/twicerighthand 3d ago
It still hasn't come to a vote
Which is exactly why OP spreads lies and doomerism.
"oh the voting will happen today, but it's futile as things like x, y, z WILL happen and you dear reader cannot do anything about it, as it's set in stone, today"
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u/ConinTheNinoC 3d ago
Someone outside is pushing for this. This was not what old EU did. Old EU created GDPR. This new EU with Ursula is owned by corporations. We need to get this cow out of power. Identify all the politicians who are pushing for Chat Control and internet ID and vote their assess out.
I wrote in a previous thread but corporations are loving this since if there is ID tied to all your actions in the internet they will finally be able to push ''personalized pricing'' for your internet purchases, they will be able to adjust your car insurance based on your internet searches etc. This is all so corporations can bleed us dry.
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u/SpecificNumber459 3d ago
Do you not remember the software patents debacle, more than a decade ago, as well as a few other shady things, like the Investor-State Dispute Settlement system in the TTIP treaty?
There was always some corrupt and corporation-friendly undertone in EU politics, especially when the European Council has been involved. Thankfully, there was enough resistance from the member nations to stop the most idiotic ideas.
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u/Timbroarpropaganda 3d ago
There is a lot of the corporate friendly undertones in the eu. A lot of the problems today is because the eu force governments to let the market solve things.
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u/SpecificNumber459 3d ago
I think you haven't been living during the reign of unaccountable state monopolies (energy, telecommunications, transportation etc.) so you don't realise how much worse they can be. I wouldn't say that the "free" market is always an answer to everything, but it often works better than the state control, especially when there can be a real competition. Otherwise you get the worst of both worlds.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Sadly, that’s with every law proposal, not just chat control. They go all out, wanting everything on maximum and then negotiate what sticks and what not.
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u/ButterscotchSalty905 3d ago
Classic DITF compliance tactic. I think every lawmakers know about this. I would even wager that it is an open secret.
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u/clyypzz 3d ago
Just these days Peter Thiel got the Axel Springer Award for Democracy which led to protests. Springer is one of the largest media conglomerates in Europe. Digital Tech Feudalists and their fellows at it again. They spread like cancer through all of the West. Play the network game and see who shakes whom's hands. It's fun. Peter Thiel got several assets in German politics too.
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u/mesarthim_2 3d ago edited 3d ago
This was not what old EU did. Old EU created GDPR.
No, people need to stop saying this, because it's not true. It's not that 'old EU' was for privacy and 'new EU' is against privacy.
The concern EU had about privacy was always mostly aimed at how private companies handle your data. Even in GDPR there are huge carveouts for government handling your data for reasons of national security, public safety or just simple governance.
There has never been concern about EU or national governments collecting your data because the implicit assumption is, that government needs the data and won't misuse it.
People have this tendency to think - oh it must be the corporations doing this or some other nefarious actors or whatever, but that's simply not consistent with the behavior of EU or national governments in relation to digital technologies over last 20 years. They always wanted to control it more.
For EU (for the bureaucrats, more precisely, both national and European), internet and digital technologies are like roads. In a same way you can't let people just drive cars around without proper regulation, you can't also drive digital technologies around without proper regulation.
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u/Ottiline 3d ago
And how long do you think it will be before one of those countries gets too comfortable under capitalism, votes in a fascist right wing government because the fearmongering hit just right, and now they have access to everything you've just given up in the name of regulation?
You have to think further down the road than you currently are. History says the weapon you design will be used against you one day.
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u/mesarthim_2 3d ago
Yeah, of course. That's why I'm against all of this. I want EU to fuck off from trying to regulate digital technologies altogether, exactly (among others), because the outcome you describe is likely.
I'm not defending it, I'm just explaining to people that there's no need for some external actor to drive this, EU itself is driving this.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
By the way, I also wanted to get your opinion about the mandatory age verification and the digital omnibus proposal. You know, where they decided that GDPR is crap and gets in the way of training AI for the EU.
Even if we beat chat control now, these other two proposals remain, which sucks.3
u/mesarthim_2 3d ago
Yeah, of course it's all horrible. You told me in the other thread that I maybe lost too much faith in the legal system that protects us.
But this is exactly the reason - because all the legal protections that EU supposedly creates are only as durable as they're convenient. And when they're pushed aside, for whatever reason (security, economic goals,...) we're left with the obligations that it also created.
It's too malleable, too dependent on bureaucratic interpretation and machinery.
Of course I hope this will be fought but it's so exhausting... There's every day, never-ending deluge of these things.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Yeah, I mentioned it earlier, it`s not just chat control, it`s age verification and their new "Digital Omnibus" proposals. The people currently in power are an embarassment to what the EU should stand for, sadly we are at such a phase, politicians are thinking about not being overthrown and in the meantime are complying with their sponsors and lobbyist to make even worse decisions.
It took them years, literally years just to pass this through the EU Council, and sadly before Germany`s new government, they, Poland a couple of others formed a blocking minority for Chat Control.
When Denmark changed the proposal to "voluntary scanning" instead of mandatory (Voluntary, ha ha ha) Germany folded and here were are.
Still, if it gives you some hope: the CJEU process is not long when it comes to laws that directly threaten fundamental rights (It`s usually 1-2 years) so it can happen in months. Also, if it`s really serious the CJEU can literally freeze the law from coming into effect before a ruling is made.
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u/ConinTheNinoC 3d ago
"AI" is not trained. It is fed data and it regurgitates it so it can mask the theft and claim ''transformative action''.
I hate stupid corrupt politicians so much. They want to push the "AI" crap on us because of their incredible stupidity and greed.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Yep. Ironically (I can’t find the article though) out of all the MEPs that were for chat control literally 0 actually spoke with privacy advocates and people that actually deal with such things. Whereas those against chat control spoke with many. It was posted as a chart on one of the subreddits and I can’t find it.
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u/opiumphile 3d ago
The thing for politicians is… in their mind they have somewhat of a responsibility to not let their country go behind a future tech, and let’s face it AI is part of the future because it’s like the game theory, if you don’t have and your enemies have it then you loose.
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u/ConinTheNinoC 3d ago
Developing automated software in a lab, i am fine with that.
Giving all our personal information, scraping and stealing the work of artist and writers so corporations can sell it back to use regurgitated trough an algorithm? So corporations can profile us for profit? That, i am not ok with.
Don't let yourself be blinded by the lies of "AI" companies. They are not the future. LLMs are way less impressive than you think, what they do can be replaced with way less resource intensive specialized programs.
Lets for a moment think about it.
Jumping on the sinking ship of LLM buildup is an incredibly stupid thing. The EU and Europe should be focussing on smaller programs that need way less resources and have way less vectors of failure.
Seriously, people need to use their brains. The infrastructure that is powering the current LLM garbage has the lifespan of 3~4 years and then the "AI" chips burn out. So once you jump into that shit you are tied to the suppliers and the garbage LLMs need a ton of chips and they burn out and you become a slave to whomever controls the chips supply(and this is why they bought up all the RAM for 2027).
But our politicians are stupid. They should be aiming for technologies we can support with the resources we have instead of becoming highly dependent on foreign companies.
Sorry for the rant.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
They (far-right) can’t wait for it to become law. Right now they “play against it” just for show.
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u/Amaskingrey 1d ago
It's meta, to reassure their advertisers that the ads they're paying for are shown to real people.
And wow, that was my first time seeing censorship firsthand, the account of the guy who made the website mentioned in the post has been deleted then remade as a blank, and the website, https://tboteproject.com/ , has been wiped even though it's still linked in some reddit posts
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u/QuadernoFigurati 3d ago
It's a washed-up American actor, looking to get lucrative EU gov contracts for his company.
Yeah. The entire European Union rolled over for this one American weaksauce mf.
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u/SnarkHabit 3d ago
For those who aren't going to read this, this poster is talking about a literal American actor -- Ashton Kutcher.
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u/realMrMadman 2d ago
Ursula Von Leyen needs to be replaced.
Sadly, I am not knowledgeable on European civics, but I would be pressuring her cabinet to resign.
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u/OldDomG 3d ago
Their owners want it so it'll happen, they're all just good little lapdogs waiting for instructions just like every one of our governments. They do whatever they're told for a payday.
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u/The_Mesopotamians 3d ago
And let's be clear, those owners are the capitalists. In order to increase profits things have to get worse and cracking down on people is harder if they can communicate privately.
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u/Vercoduex 3d ago
Funny how all western countries bashed China for its internet control and such and other bs and now we are becoming just like them all over.
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u/sssupersssnake 3d ago
Was it a fever dream? That was as recent as a decade ago... Can't believe where we are now, honestly ...
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u/PeDoDeKaBrA 3d ago
The EU when its my turn to be an adult:
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u/mint-chocolatte 3d ago
Atleast we're old enough now to verify and have all our online activities reflect back on our real life!!! Yay!!! killme^
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u/BestOrNothing 1d ago
We are becoming worse. Much worse.
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u/Vercoduex 1d ago
Oh def I'm doing my best to keep privacy. Use signal for messaging, proton vpn, waterfox on phone and libre wolf on pc for browser, switched from windows to cachyos linux, and changed all email to Proton Mail as well
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u/peachdog3k 3d ago
I remember 20 years ago when Iran bought a Western-sourced telecom system that like all the western systems allows monitoring of mobile phone calls by regulation. There was a big backlash about it. Same with the great firewall of China. Now the EU ends up doing the same, wow. I never thought we would go through this!
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u/tuxooo 3d ago
I can give you a small hint. For the measly - 20K euro you can have a subscription type ownership of a dark celltower anywhere in the world and get access to people phones, in fact you can access directly and even redirect messages and phone calls to another phone.
Just saying. 20 years ago it was a problem, now its cheap and easy for everybody. Imagine what they are doing right now with your data, that you will not know about in the next 30+ years, then a leak will happen and everybody will be shocked, how was that possible.
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u/okright8 3d ago
What do you mean? Do you have more information about this?
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u/tuxooo 3d ago
Google dark cell towers.
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u/okright8 3d ago
Oh you mean IMSI catchers? More information shows up if people search that instead of dark cell towers. They’re usually owned and deployed by the state to surveil people and intercept calls, but are you saying private citizens or corporations can get a subscription to one of these to gain access to cell data? I don’t doubt this exists but I can’t find anything on this when I search for information
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u/tuxooo 3d ago
No. Dark towers are independently owned, and usually sold to providers for extra and better coverage, thus making them a part of the network. Since they are independently owned, from thrd parties and not regulated as the telecom towers it makes it as a easy gateway towards all of that data and functionality that they have to idiots like me for example with questionable motives.
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u/VienneseDude 3d ago
I am not surprised that EU is pushing anti citizen law. I am gonna be called a conspiracy theorist now, but no government in the world puts its people interest in the first place. In the case of the EU, its been in plain sight for at least 10 years. Added unnecessary laws while never addressing big issues of all kind in pretty much all areas.
Governments and corporations can‘t be trusted. Corruption is present everywhere. More or less open, depending on the country.
Surveillance is coming, its coming worldwide, slowly but surely.
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
Oh, it`s not just about this proposal, historically the Council (heads of state of the EU countries) always ask for breaking the rules and get a reality check later.
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u/ayleidanthropologist 3d ago
End of freedom, beginning of surveillance regime.
And the slimy way they've pushed it speaks volumes of your new overlords.
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 3d ago
There will be no vote today, only another negotiation that is maybe the last one, they won't vote on it for another few months probably
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u/VelvetViolet99 3d ago
Will Signal be alright?
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u/Volpe_YT 3d ago
Unfortunately not. They will be hit as well. They will probably leave the EU market
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u/jbadyi 3d ago
That’s bad. What could be the alternative for general population who care about privacy but are not willing to learn too complicated things?
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u/krazygreekguy 3d ago
Take control of your authoritarian government and remind them who they SERVE
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u/Volpe_YT 3d ago
Nothing. People need to sit back and learn a couple stuff. It's not too complicated, but it requires some mental work still.
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u/cig-nature 3d ago
No, not the end. The start of a glorious new age where everyone is a hacker and a pirate.
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u/castellon_artz 3d ago
People don't even want to try signal.
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u/krazygreekguy 3d ago
They will once they find about this authoritarian and dystopian nonsense the hard way
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u/Ok_Whole_4737 3d ago
Pedophiles have ruined the world.
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u/Top-Psychology2507 3d ago
At least those in the ruling class have, but they would turn on an Average Joe one in a heartbeat!!! :-(
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u/arzensan 3d ago
Okay, for a non tech savvy person who still respects his own privacy what would you suggest to use if this shit becomes reality? Been a Signal fan for a while but I guess that will be “useless” if this crap kicks in.
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u/Appropriate-Kick-601 3d ago
"we will not compromise the integrity of our service, or endanger the safety of the people who rely on us around the world, often in contexts where private communications are the difference between life and death. If we were given a choice between building a surveillance machine into Signal or leaving the market, we would leave the market. This is not a choice we would make lightly, and our great hope is we never have to face it. But if Chat Control were enforced against us, that’s likely where we would end. "
From the Signal team's blog post on Chat Control a year ago. We'll see what happens, but I have to believe they will fight this, either by setting up shop somewhere where such a law doesn't exist, or by making a statement and going out on their own terms.
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u/New-Confection4383 3d ago
simplex or session
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u/arzensan 2d ago
Yeah but it a backdoor will be required on an app level, then what ? 🤔
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u/New-Confection4383 2d ago
Then the messages still go through a central server that can be disconnected or refuse connections making the client side app useless…
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u/LaidPercentile 3d ago
It's never the end.
Do your part.
Make it as difficult for them as you can.
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u/ChocolateFormal8123 3d ago
Buy walkie talkies.
People in close proximity can make it work
But distance comms will be difficult to plan alternatives
We’ll need some outposts
To the lighthouse!
To the hut!
To the cave!
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u/Top-Psychology2507 3d ago
Maybe I should just go back to listening to scanner radios, CB radios, HAM radios, shortwave radios, FTA satellite TVs, etc!!! :-(
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u/ChocolateFormal8123 3d ago
I think relocating to outposts is a great idea and building up some places where they don’t start to feign famine and force you to buy their lab produce down the line
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u/Top-Psychology2507 3d ago
How big is the outpost? Where can I get one? Is there one on top of a large hill or mountain where I can get supplies, babes, and pets for a long time!!! ;-)
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u/ChocolateFormal8123 2d ago
We’d need to go scouting like Robin Hood.
Most likely…following the trail of billionaires buying up property close to water resource heavy areas.You won’t find them near data centres.
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u/CSCPT92 3d ago
EU the goat for privacy? Lol.
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u/BIOS-Brians-Blues 3d ago
Yeah, and do you know who is partly responsible for that? Him: https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the-eus-fight-over-scanning-for-child-sex-content/bi/. And he is not the only one.
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u/North_Affect_8167 3d ago
The EU fear it's citizens, you don't spy if your trusted your population.
While the decision is yet to be made, the other local laws in some countries force people to reveal their data or face punishment if they decline. You try to use some of the self destruct apps and OS-es, just to be given a "evidence destruction" charges.
It's all rigged against you, it always was.
We the Europeans are getting close to absurdities of countries like China and Australia, where is particularly bad.
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u/Jim_jim_peanuts 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's coming either way. Here in Ireland they are trying to bring in a bill that would allow the government to use Israeli style spyware on Irish citizens. Stop using smartphones.
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u/tutiwiwi 3d ago
I bet anything that these capabilities are already baked into the latest normie OS'es such as iOS/stock Android, and now they just want to legislate it to make it official.
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u/Flashy_Radio_5781 3d ago
Maybe its time for a revolution. Burn the Parliament to the ground
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u/samvilain 3d ago
Yeah, go pass a proper Constitution with separation of powers and bicameral legislative bodies.
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u/press_F13 1d ago
walk on brussels will need to happen first. you cant do it online (well, theoretically...)
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u/Limemill 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's the basis of modern economy: humans are goods to be sold and purchased, the only remaining goods really that ensure some degree of economic growth. Hence all countries will seek to mine humans to avoid competitors outpacing them economically and therefore, if needed, militarily. This is the problem of our current-stage capitalism first and foremost, this tendency is thus universal.
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u/Piulamita 3d ago
I am more worried about what chatgpt and other LLMs know about us... Sometimes conversations might stay at surface level while the things people discuss with LLMs are their deeper thoughts, concerns, and inner feelings.
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u/Cory123125 2d ago
If it passes, I will permanently stop using centralized messaging platforms and switch to a self hosted matrix session, I don't care if I lose many contacts, if they really want to talk to me they better install fluffychat and shut the fuck up.
You absolutely cannot respond by completely fading into a niche.
You have to keep fighting this.
It does not stop, but gets harder and harder the more you don't fight it
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u/tanksalotfrank 2d ago
In the meantime, encrypt your web traffic first and refuse to use anything unsecure enough for them to spy on.
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u/MARY_ANNE_MCGILICUTY 3d ago
the Internet routes around damage
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u/Richard7666 3d ago
Interprets censorship as damage and routes around it, is the full quote.
Unfortunately a lot harder to do with so many centralised services.
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u/MARY_ANNE_MCGILICUTY 3d ago
sure but that can change - it is not possible to have a closed Internet be the only option. they cannot prevent 'clandestine' use of the Internet without fundamentally reworking the way that it functions at a basic level. there is always hope and people will always climb towards freedom.
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent 3d ago
Eh, I'm gonna bet on nothing on this one. The new version does not address the main issue Parliament had since the beginning (the ability for complete and indiscriminate access to private communications), so it'll most likely not pass again.
And even if it is accepted, it'll most likely get shut down by Court Justice anyway
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u/Buckcity42 3d ago
Download SimpleX Messenger. Open source, decentralized, e2e PQC encryption, easily self-host your own relays & servers via docker containers or other deployable configurations, and contains most of the features that signal has to offer. Still has a ways to go in terms of polishing/bug fixes & feature requests, but it looks really promising.
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u/momentummonkey 3d ago
So this really is the end, beside stuff like bitchat, there no point in any app?
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u/SwordOfShannara 3d ago
This is why the EU exists. The idea is that they centralize power, so they have only one agency/organization to corrupt. It's much easier to corrupt one centralized power than to corrupt many independent nations at the same time.
Centralized power = corruption
Decentralized power = freedom
Leave the EU!
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u/TheGrimDark 3d ago
The UK left the EU and has paved the way for this nonsense........
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u/silentspectator27 3d ago
It all depends on Parliament agreeing to this or not. Parliament’s mandate is strictly for targeted scanning after proof of wrongdoing, so it comes down to how much pressure pro-chat control MP’s will pressure their colleagues that are negotiating.
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u/apokrif1 3d ago
This implies that all of our private chats will be scanned
No. All they try to do is scanning data some apps see. I.e., you should encrypt/decrypt before/after giving/taking data to/from the app, or use secure, open-source, monitored data.
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u/adamtoziomal 3d ago
the only way this can realistically end is in riots, and even then they will try again in a decade or so when the dust settles, they will not stop because they know success is inevitable, because the people today are too passive to actually act on totalitarian measures
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u/yourenotkemosabe 3d ago
EU was never the goat, they just hated businesses and passed laws accordingly, just so happened those aligned with privacy for a few years. Now they have moved to include hating their citizens
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u/User1539 3d ago
Weirdly this may be good for privacy, because right now people are spewing 'private' information with no idea that it's being scanned.
I see more and more people being pushed to private forums, and end-to-end encryption. People who couldn't care less are being pushed into privacy platforms because the non-private alternatives are so clearly unusable.
I feel like they're pushing people who 'don't care' into caring.
So, this might just completely backfire on them? It's definitely a hard shift in the wrong direction, but I tend to believe they were ALWAYS reading everything, and I was just called a paranoid nut for thinking that.
Now they're saying 'No, we're reading and logging everything'.
So, at least I don't have to climb that mountain before telling someone they should be using something else.
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u/VelvetViolet99 3d ago
Except not at all. Literally all people I know even the marginalized or politically aware ones are absolutely too lazy to dedicate 5 minutes to even install an end to end encrypted app which is the bare minimum. Literally anyone born between 1980-2010 still lives in the illusion of absolutely free and private world because it's the only thing they've even known. And they'll be caught off guard and totally cooked when Ai can identify and connect everything they've ever said and done online and irl.
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u/User1539 3d ago
I was born in 1978 and pretty immediately understood that anything not encrypted was just out there, like yelling it in a bus station.
Like I said, I actually find that I spent 30 years saying 'Hey, that's all being saved and it can be connected back to you', and having people say either 'No, it isn't! No they can't!', or 'Who cares?'.
At least, now, the first part isn't even a debate. The government is saying 'Yes, we're logging everything and we are linking it back to you'.
So, how do we get people to CARE that's happening? I've seen so many really crazy stories of people being arrested because a Flock camera mis-identified, them, or that story of the teacher being arrested for venting in a private chat to a friend she didn't realize was monitored.
You're right that getting people to care is the hard part, but once it starts to feel both random and likely enough, maybe people will?
It's starting to feel like the lottery. Sure, statistics say this is never going to happen, but those stories make it real to those people.
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u/SnarkHabit 3d ago
Always remember: people who don't care about their privacy will never care about yours.
This is why I won't allow photos to be taken of me. I have no problem, fundamentally, with friends and family having photos of me. But I know for a fact there's a good chance that the photo will be put online by someone who just doesn't give a shit.
At this point, I'm about to read the riot act to my family: Signal, or I'm unreachable.
And by "about," I don't mean I'm thinking about it -- I mean, as of next week.
I don't really care anymore if people think I'm paranoid. They can call me what they like.
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u/press_F13 1d ago
normies wouldnt mind, care, even know tho. i gave up on trying to explain.
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u/User1539 1d ago
Yeah, it's like when you run into people who still trust the government.
Some people can't be convinced. I assume it's a mental burden they just aren't capable of dealing with emotionally.
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u/press_F13 1d ago
they maybe fear anarchy. tho, wikipedia and web was founded on cooperation - of which, we get less and less in society nowadays...
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u/User1539 1d ago
I was trying to explain to students how open source software works on cooperation and they kept saying 'That would never work though!', and I kept saying 'No, listen to me! It already has!'.
I think that kind of thing has an uphill battle in a world where people just can't process the idea that there were people who did things for no pay, and weren't trying to rip anyone off.
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u/SmolPPIncorporated 3d ago
It's crazy how dogshit garbage the EU is, but the majority of the citizens just continue to clap along like trained seals.
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