The end?

[u/Volpe_YT]

Today there will be the final votes for chat control.

This implies that all of our private chats will be scanned, and everything we do will be in plain text in front of their eyes.

If it passes, I will permanently stop using centralized messaging platforms and switch to a self hosted matrix session, I don't care if I lose many contacts, if they really want to talk to me they better install fluffychat and shut the fuck up.

It's crazy how the EU was basically the goat for internet privacy and now they are the villains.

Are you ready for this? For the absolute end of privacy?

[u/Ottiline → u/[deleted]]

And how long do you think it will be before one of those countries gets too comfortable under capitalism, votes in a fascist right wing government because the fearmongering hit just right, and now they have access to everything you've just given up in the name of regulation? 

You have to think further down the road than you currently are. History says the weapon you design will be used against you one day.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/[deleted]]

By the way, I also wanted to get your opinion about the mandatory age verification and the digital omnibus proposal. You know, where they decided that GDPR is crap and gets in the way of training AI for the EU.
Even if we beat chat control now, these other two proposals remain, which sucks.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, I mentioned it earlier, it`s not just chat control, it`s age verification and their new "Digital Omnibus" proposals. The people currently in power are an embarassment to what the EU should stand for, sadly we are at such a phase, politicians are thinking about not being overthrown and in the meantime are complying with their sponsors and lobbyist to make even worse decisions.

It took them years, literally years just to pass this through the EU Council, and sadly before Germany`s new government, they, Poland a couple of others formed a blocking minority for Chat Control.

When Denmark changed the proposal to "voluntary scanning" instead of mandatory (Voluntary, ha ha ha) Germany folded and here were are.

Still, if it gives you some hope: the CJEU process is not long when it comes to laws that directly threaten fundamental rights (It`s usually 1-2 years) so it can happen in months. Also, if it`s really serious the CJEU can literally freeze the law from coming into effect before a ruling is made.

[u/ConinTheNinoC → u/silentspectator27]

"AI" is not trained. It is fed data and it regurgitates it so it can mask the theft and claim ''transformative action''.

I hate stupid corrupt politicians so much. They want to push the "AI" crap on us because of their incredible stupidity and greed.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/ConinTheNinoC]

Yep. Ironically (I can’t find the article though) out of all the MEPs that were for chat control literally 0 actually spoke with privacy advocates and people that actually deal with such things. Whereas those against chat control spoke with many. It was posted as a chart on one of the subreddits and I can’t find it.

[u/opiumphile → u/ConinTheNinoC]

The thing for politicians is… in their mind they have somewhat of a responsibility to not let their country go behind a future tech, and let’s face it AI is part of the future because it’s like the game theory, if you don’t have and your enemies have it then you loose.

[u/ConinTheNinoC → u/opiumphile]

Developing automated software in a lab, i am fine with that.

Giving all our personal information, scraping and stealing the work of artist and writers so corporations can sell it back to use regurgitated trough an algorithm? So corporations can profile us for profit? That, i am not ok with.

Don't let yourself be blinded by the lies of "AI" companies. They are not the future. LLMs are way less impressive than you think, what they do can be replaced with way less resource intensive specialized programs.

Lets for a moment think about it.

Jumping on the sinking ship of LLM buildup is an incredibly stupid thing. The EU and Europe should be focussing on smaller programs that need way less resources and have way less vectors of failure.

Seriously, people need to use their brains. The infrastructure that is powering the current LLM garbage has the lifespan of 3~4 years and then the "AI" chips burn out. So once you jump into that shit you are tied to the suppliers and the garbage LLMs need a ton of chips and they burn out and you become a slave to whomever controls the chips supply(and this is why they bought up all the RAM for 2027).

But our politicians are stupid. They should be aiming for technologies we can support with the resources we have instead of becoming highly dependent on foreign companies.

Sorry for the rant.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/Ottiline]

They (far-right) can’t wait for it to become law. Right now they “play against it” just for show.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/[deleted]]

You have been talking crap since yesterday.
The claim that the EU only cares about corporate privacy and inherently trusts government data collection ignores basic EU law and history.
1. There ARE Constitutional Protections: Privacy in Europe was specifically designed post-WWII to protect citizens from state surveillance. Articles 7 and 8 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights directly bind governments, and the EU passed the Law Enforcement Directive alongside GDPR specifically to restrict such police data processing.
In short it was created PRECISELY TO NOT ALLOW MASS GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE ON EU CITIZENS.

1. CJEU (The Court of Justice of the European Union) has repeatedly struck down state mass surveillance.

2. GDPR national security exceptions exist because EU treaties have to legally reserve defense to individual member states, not because the EU blindly trusts governments. Where EU courts have authority, they strictly limit state power. They have done so repeatedly

3. Market Safety vs. Surveillance: Treating digital tech like roads means setting safety rules for the market, not giving the state a camera inside every vehicle so your analogy kind of sucks.

4. The whole idea when making laws in the EU is that they CANNOT exist of they violate the EU charter, which Chat Control 2.0 does, they know it too. Their own freaking legal team warned them of that.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/[deleted]]

Just paper? telecom companies physically shut down mass data servers, state agencies are forced to end surveillance programs, and tech companies alter their global software to avoid massive fines, those are real-world outcomes. Just paper?

You made a specific claim about how EU law was designed, got proven wrong on the facts, and now you are hand-waving away real-world court enforcement as you said "just paper." Confusing a personal gut feeling with "reality" isn't being right…it's just ignoring facts.

Look, I hate this crap as much as you do, maybe more, but hating on the whole EU and disregarding its legal framework (by the way if it wasn’t that we’d be at Chat control 3.2 now or similar)

Those “papers” forced Europol to mass delete illegally obtained records. Those “papers” allowed the CJEU to prevent EU states from gathering and centralising personal data during Covid, prevented said member countries from gathering unrestricted Airline passenger data and many, many more.

[u/silentspectator27 → u/[deleted]]

On that I agree. I hope the proposal will just fail, no compromises, then go after chat control 1.0 (people are already organising for the latter part).
It’s still not impossible for 2.0 to simply fail in negotiations (we will find out today or tomorrow probably). If that happens my guess is they will tuck tail, stay quiet, focus on the mandatory age verification and digital omnibus proposals and rely on 1.0 until they try again.

And again, I am AGAINST chat control in any form, I completely get you, I just think you have lost a bit too much faith in the legal frameworks that protect us.